View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?

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Thread: Do you believe in God?

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  1. #1
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I woke up with some of these thoughts but didn't get much sleep so I might clean them up later. I am still drifting in and out while typing this. Post is inspired by @applejacks post about prayer. It is not meant to diminish her experience in any way so I hope she doesn't feel that I am attacking her faith. <3

    I have had 3 interruptions while writing this. The TV apparently has a mind of it's own today and keeps turning itself off (oooh,spooky ghosts, of my mind, I suspect are effecting the tv. ). After I turn it on again I remember more and this has turned out much longer than I intended.


    When I was an Orthodox Christian I prayed directly to god and cut out all the middle men. My prayers big and small were answered but many were not. My mom told me to pray and let it be or do something about it. Otherwise I had no control of outcome. I was still a very young child then and wasn't sure what she meant but I started to have doubts about the whole religious thing. No one answered my questions to my satisfaction. "Too young to understand "was not an answer to me and it was insulting. It just made me upset and find crafty ways to get my answers. I eavesdropped on adult conversations and got a huge education in the ways of adults that way.

    When I was around 12 I met the "born-agains" I also became a born again Christian (later) since their offer seemed win/sin/win. I could never be sent to hell once born again was the way it was presented and having been through hell with my aunt this was all I needed to hear. I did this all behind my mom's back. I started taking a bus (bus driver turned out to be a huge baptist pervert who volunteered to drive a church bus. I never saw him go inside) to a church with my friends who were all just as messed up as me. You would think parents would be happy to hear that we were all going to church instead of getting into other things. If they only know what went on. No one asked our parents permission to take us there or other places. They just picked up street kids and took them to church. It seems so wrong when I think about it. I would flip out if someone did that to a child of mine without telling me. Pervy bus driver would entice us to join his church. It was an old converted school bus.

    Most of our parents didn't know where we were and most of their parents didn't care. At first it was just for fun, kissing boys on the back of the bus or behind the church. Pervy bus driver never tried to stop it. He helped my sister and me a lot. He personally chauffeured us around town, bought us tickets to movies and other events. If we called and asked for fast food he would bring it right over. He never stayed and he never touched us. He drove me around town at midnight if I asked. I would sneak out and have him take me to my bf. I knew him for a few years and I knew how to manipulate him sweetly or by getting angry and bossing him around. I think he liked it that way. He wanted me to be bossy. I even had him pay for my best friend. This was all when I was around 12. I think he was in love with me. A few years later he did try to touch me when I was 15. I went to his house because he wanted to give me some money. Fortunately I had a friend with me and when he grabbed me (first time ever) I flipped out on him and pushed him away forcefully. First time he ever scared me and my friend as well. He gave me the money and said I was old enough to know this would not go on any longer. I stopped calling or taking his calls after that. I thought he was an answer to a prayer when I was a child and maybe he was. Does that mean god also works through perverts? It is said he works in mysterious ways.

    At some point I got really interested in the whole born again thing and wanted to live the life. Changed churches and I started praying through Jesus. Apparently I was not supposed to be talking to the big guy (I had no clue. My mom didn't teach me that!), again, many of my prayers were answered by adding "in Jesus name" at the end. But this time, when they weren't, the reason I was given was. "God knew what was best for me and I must accept it". I wasn't really given a reason why they weren't when I was a child. Yet I started thinking god is jealous I am praying to Jesus. It was much easier praying directly to god.

    Various other forms of christianity explored during this time (Pentecostal scared me as a younger child, met them before the born agains, btw) but my prayers were still being answered frequently and if they weren't I was told by various people they were being answered by twisting reality. They wanted me to see things that weren't' there and if I didn't it must be my fault in some way... punishment for a bad deed or whatever (loving god parent was just withholding affection and comfort because I was being bad). When I started to question why my frivolous prayers were answered (some by those people doing things for me that I prayed for) but some of the important stuff was being ignored, I was told I lacked faith. Many nightmare hellish experiences during this time. "Demon attacks" that I was told I brought on. Didn't know to interpret it as fighting my own inner demons at the time.

    Then I shifted to new age metaphysical stuff and stopped using the word god or even giving god any acknowledgment for ever existing. Arguing with christians and being generally angry. I prayed to my spirit guides and multiple gods of old (Viking and Greek) during this time. Got really into goddesses and ET gods who were really helpful it seemed. Life got way better and I was happy for awhile. I seemed to be getting all my prayers answered. My anger faded the more I explored this and Eastern religions and philosophies. I became sweeter and kinder while looking for inner peace. Inner peace was not my thing though but thanks to my sister I know how to achieve it if I want to. I hate to meditate by the way so I could not explore it as long as I could have. To me meditating would just be listening to music, binaural beats or staring at beautiful scenery out in nature and not clearing my mind. I like to let my thoughts and feelings flow. I enjoy the various images I see and my mind is never blank for long because something comes along and fills it. I could not be buddhist. I gave it a try for a very short time. Not me.

    Lots of various other philosophies followed including atheistic (I don't consider myself an atheist since it is too rigid for my brain to accept). I had completely stopped being angry at god during this time as a lot of atheists seemed to be, so I started arguing with them too. Lots of times playing devil's advocate. hahah I was in an in-between state and at some point around this time I had a complete spiritual breakdown where I absolutely knew there was no personal god. I also stopped praying to spirit guides or anything else. I started using creative visualization and it worked as well as the prayers. If my car was/is acting strangely I will talk to it. "She" will "tell me" what she needs if I am paying attention. Sometimes I randomly say into the air, "if anyone is watching out for me this would be a good time to step in". I sometimes ask my dead friends and relatives for advice and they answer me in creative ways.

    Now if I want a specific outcome I try not to doubt it and do whatever I can to make it come to be. I am better able to differentiate things in my power and the things that are not. I don't pray for someone to live or get well. If it is important enough I do what I can to help them get well. If I know it is over and they are dying, I accept that is the natural cycle of life. If they get better it is their own will to live and not an intervening entity. This was the biggest revelation ever and one of the most freeing and scary. Still one of the hardest things to accept when you are in the midst of it.

    I kind of believe that praying for others, without their desire for you to do so, is imposing your will on them and I learned that the hard way. I didn't want to hear that my wanting others to live, or do something I wanted them to do, then praying for it was being selfish on my part. Thank you to an ILI for that bit of info. If someone cares for me I would rather have their good vibes directed at me and not them pushing for me to change to fit their ideal. That kind of energy is actually oppressive. I can't breathe around those people who want me to be what they want me to be. Their prayers are like a pillow over my face, energetically speaking. I am not opposed to people who say they will pray for me when I know that they are only sending me good vibes and have no expectations for me.

    Most people have said I was lucky. Lucky to have so many prayers and wishes come true over the years. They wondered how I could not believe god was there for me. Yes, great and amazing things have happened to me, right place, right time, situations and I can't help but feel I am blessed in many ways. I have walked away from accidents and robberies where others were not lucky. People give me things. Lots of things and as recently as last week I got a really nice fridge fully stocked with brand new unopened food when an elderly couple my brother worked for moved state. We also got a weight bench and free weights. Another neighbor recently moved a couple blocks away and gave me a treadmill she had paid a $1000 for, lots of expensive paintings, 3 chandeliers, other little but expensive things. She is also old and wanted to downsize without the hassle of selling stuff. In a couple of weeks I have been given $1000s of dollars worth of items even though I personally did nothing for them. Some of the stuff, like the fridge I have been planning to buy so now I have it in the garage where I have wanted it. I also wanted to redo my garage and make it more of a proper and comfortable gym. I had inherited gym equipment before and now with this I am motivated to do it. My friend and brother will do it for free. I didn't pray for this stuff but I did want it and I put the thoughts out there to the universe. A lot of it I will give to others to keep the flow going but some of it I will sell (the paintings).

    I have been given cars, money, expensive clothes and even diamonds. You name it. I don't ask for these things either but in my mind I know when I want something bad enough that it will find a way. I am not bragging here because I am still shocked and awed at the generosity I have experience and I want to spread it around. I give to people and in part it is because I noticed (long ago) the more I give, the more that is given to me and not always material stuff. I am not that materialistic but I am grateful for what I have. Maybe it is some kind of cosmic karma to balance out all the bad. If I am kind to others most are kind to me. Maybe not even the person I am being kind to. They can be a complete jerk but someone else will make up for it.

    There were many abusive people in the churches I tried out. They were a big part of why I walked away and have not looked back but I am very aware that my good or bad experiences with it are just that, mine. I know that there is not an abuser in every christian, just waiting to come out. Those people would be the same with or without religion. Many of them just flock to religion for redemption or hope like anyone else. I find all that in nature and the supernatural connections and experience of my own mind. I have talked to many ghosts over the years and none have told me that they are hanging with god. God doesn't even come up that I can recall. I guess I could ask but I think my family would have told me something so important. None of them talk about burning in hell so that is a good sign. For those thinking it, what I talk to are not demons. Demons are just our own fear manifested. I meet them in dreams. They are quite easy to defeat in a lucid dream but if not lucid it can be scary. I always end up escaping them lucid or not. I wake up unnerved but usually feel a weight lifted as I go about my day. If I can interpret my dream I fine especially when it helps with real life problems. Those are my personal demons.

    In conclusion many of my prayers have been answered as well but I could have prayed to a lamp with the same outcome if I believed it. Spirit guides and aliens were just as accommodating as god or jesus. It was all just me making things happen or not. I don't always know exactly what I did to get what I needed or wanted but subconsciously I made the choices that lead to many favorable outcomes. Of course in hindsight it is easier to interpret. When my "prayer" went unanswered it was because I was unable to influence the situation or I made the wrong choices.

    Prayers for other people were limited to praying for their health and happiness and I still send warm vibes to people I care about. I don't call them prayers and it is mostly an energy not something consciously arranged into words. They say they can feel it. Sometimes out of nowhere I will just tell them how I feel about them even if I barely know them. I want some people to know how they are appreciated even if I don't make an effort to talk to them much. Some of those people can energetically affect my mood just by seeing their name or they show up at the right moment and I feel uplifted and want to give some back.

    *I also am not above sending bad energy back to the sender by blocking it. I don't wish them any bad things. I just ask that their negativity be returned to them. All this stuff works if you believe it will. I have gotten my own negativity back when I had bad feelings toward some one. I usually know this is happening because I will stub my toe and it really hurts. I then give myself an attitude adjustment. I am always in a grumpy mood before I stub my toe. Snaps me right out of it after I scream.
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 07:09 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I woke up with some of these thoughts but didn't get much sleep so I might clean them up later. I am still drifting in and out while typing this. Post is inspired by @applejacks post about prayer. It is not meant to diminish her experience in any way so I hope she doesn't feel that I am attacking her faith. <3

    I have had 3 interruptions while writing this. The TV apparently has a mind of it's own today and keeps turning itself off (oooh,spooky ghosts, of my mind, I suspect are effecting the tv. ). After I turn it on again I remember more and this has turned out much longer than I intended.


    When I was an Orthodox Christian I prayed directly to god and cut out all the middle men. My prayers big and small were answered but many were not. My mom told me to pray and let it be or do something about it. Otherwise I had no control of outcome. I was still a very young child then and wasn't sure what she meant but I started to have doubts about the whole religious thing. No one answered my questions to my satisfaction. "Too young to understand "was not an answer to me and it was insulting. It just made me upset and find crafty ways to get my answers. I eavesdropped on adult conversations and got a huge education in the ways of adults that way.

    When I was around 12 I met the "born-agains" I also became a born again Christian (later) since their offer seemed win/sin/win. I could never be sent to hell once born again was the way it was presented and having been through hell with my aunt this was all I needed to hear. I did this all behind my mom's back. I started taking a bus (bus driver turned out to be a huge baptist pervert who volunteered to drive a church bus. I never saw him go inside) to a church with my friends who were all just as messed up as me. You would think parents would be happy to hear that we were all going to church instead of getting into other things. If they only know what went on. No one asked our parents permission to take us there or other places. They just picked up street kids and took them to church. It seems so wrong when I think about it. I would flip out if someone did that to a child of mine without telling me. Pervy bus driver would entice us to join his church. It was an old converted school bus.

    Most of our parents didn't know where we were and most of their parents didn't care. At first it was just for fun, kissing boys on the back of the bus or behind the church. Pervy bus driver never tried to stop it. He helped my sister and me a lot. He personally chauffeured us around town, bought us tickets to movies and other events. If we called and asked for fast food he would bring it right over. He never stayed and he never touched us. He drove me around town at midnight if I asked. I would sneak out and have him take me to my bf. I knew him for a few years and I knew how to manipulate him sweetly or by getting angry and bossing him around. I think he liked it that way. He wanted me to be bossy. I even had him pay for my best friend. This was all when I was around 12. I think he was in love with me. A few years later he did try to touch me when I was 15. I went to his house because he wanted to give me some money. Fortunately I had a friend with me and when he grabbed me (first time ever) I flipped out on him and pushed him away forcefully. First time he ever scared me and my friend as well. He gave me the money and said I was old enough to know this would not go on any longer. I stopped calling or taking his calls after that. I thought he was an answer to a prayer when I was a child and maybe he was. Does that mean god also works through perverts? It is said he works in mysterious ways.

    At some point I got really interested in the whole born again thing and wanted to live the life. Changed churches and I started praying through Jesus. Apparently I was not supposed to be talking to the big guy (I had no clue. My mom didn't teach me that!), again, many of my prayers were answered by adding "in Jesus name" at the end. But this time, when they weren't, the reason I was given was. "God knew what was best for me and I must accept it". I wasn't really given a reason why they weren't when I was a child. Yet I started thinking god is jealous I am praying to Jesus. It was much easier praying directly to god.

    Various other forms of christianity explored during this time (Pentecostal scared me as a younger child, met them before the born agains, btw) but my prayers were still being answered frequently and if they weren't I was told by various people they were being answered by twisting reality. They wanted me to see things that weren't' there and if I didn't it must be my fault in some way... punishment for a bad deed or whatever (loving god parent was just withholding affection and comfort because I was being bad). When I started to question why my frivolous prayers were answered (some by those people doing things for me that I prayed for) but some of the important stuff was being ignored, I was told I lacked faith. Many nightmare hellish experiences during this time. "Demon attacks" that I was told I brought on. Didn't know to interpret it as fighting my own inner demons at the time.

    Then I shifted to new age metaphysical stuff and stopped using the word god or even giving god any acknowledgment for ever existing. Arguing with christians and being generally angry. I prayed to my spirit guides and multiple gods of old (Viking and Greek) during this time. Got really into goddesses and ET gods who were really helpful it seemed. Life got way better and I was happy for awhile. I seemed to be getting all my prayers answered. My anger faded the more I explored this and Eastern religions and philosophies. I became sweeter and kinder while looking for inner peace. Inner peace was not my thing though but thanks to my sister I know how to achieve it if I want to. I hate to meditate by the way so I could not explore it as long as I could have. To me meditating would just be listening to music, binaural beats or staring at beautiful scenery out in nature and not clearing my mind. I like to let my thoughts and feelings flow. I enjoy the various images I see and my mind is never blank for long because something comes along and fills it. I could not be buddhist. I gave it a try for a very short time. Not me.

    Lots of various other philosophies followed including atheistic (I don't consider myself an atheist since it is too rigid for my brain to accept). I had completely stopped being angry at god during this time as a lot of atheists seemed to be, so I started arguing with them too. Lots of times playing devil's advocate. hahah I was in an in-between state and at some point around this time I had a complete spiritual breakdown where I absolutely knew there was no personal god. I also stopped praying to spirit guides or anything else. I started using creative visualization and it worked as well as the prayers. If my car was/is acting strangely I will talk to it. "She" will "tell me" what she needs if I am paying attention. Sometimes I randomly say into the air, "if anyone is watching out for me this would be a good time to step in". I sometimes ask my dead friends and relatives for advice and they answer me in creative ways.

    Now if I want a specific outcome I try not to doubt it and do whatever I can to make it come to be. I am better able to differentiate things in my power and the things that are not. I don't pray for someone to live or get well. If it is important enough I do what I can to help them get well. If I know it is over and they are dying, I accept that is the natural cycle of life. If they get better it is their own will to live and not an intervening entity. This was the biggest revelation ever and one of the most freeing and scary. Still one of the hardest things to accept when you are in the midst of it.

    I kind of believe that praying for others, without their desire for you to do so, is imposing your will on them and I learned that the hard way. I didn't want to hear that my wanting others to live, or do something I wanted them to do, then praying for it was being selfish on my part. Thank you to an ILI for that bit of info. If someone cares for me I would rather have their good vibes directed at me and not them pushing for me to change to fit their ideal. That kind of energy is actually oppressive. I can't breathe around those people who want me to be what they want me to be. Their prayers are like a pillow over my face, energetically speaking. I am not opposed to people who say they will pray for me when I know that they are only sending me good vibes and have no expectations for me.

    Most people have said I was lucky. Lucky to have so many prayers and wishes come true over the years. They wondered how I could not believe god was there for me. Yes, great and amazing things have happened to me, right place, right time, situations and I can't help but feel I am blessed in many ways. I have walked away from accidents and robberies where others were not lucky. People give me things. Lots of things and as recently as last week I got a really nice fridge fully stocked with brand new unopened food when an elderly couple my brother worked for moved state. We also got a weight bench and free weights. Another neighbor recently moved a couple blocks away and gave me a treadmill she had paid a $1000 for, lots of expensive paintings, 3 chandeliers, other little but expensive things. She is also old and wanted to downsize without the hassle of selling stuff. In a couple of weeks I have been given $1000s of dollars worth of items even though I personally did nothing for them. Some of the stuff, like the fridge I have been planning to buy so now I have it in the garage where I have wanted it. I also wanted to redo my garage and make it more of a proper and comfortable gym. I had inherited gym equipment before and now with this I am motivated to do it. My friend and brother will do it for free. I didn't pray for this stuff but I did want it and I put the thoughts out there to the universe. A lot of it I will give to others to keep the flow going but some of it I will sell (the paintings).

    I have been given cars, money, expensive clothes and even diamonds. You name it. I don't ask for these things either but in my mind I know when I want something bad enough that it will find a way. I am not bragging here because I am still shocked and awed at the generosity I have experience and I want to spread it around. I give to people and in part it is because I noticed (long ago) the more I give, the more that is given to me and not always material stuff. I am not that materialistic but I am grateful for what I have. Maybe it is some kind of cosmic karma to balance out all the bad. If I am kind to others most are kind to me. Maybe not even the person I am being kind to. They can be a complete jerk but someone else will make up for it.

    There were many abusive people in the churches I tried out. They were a big part of why I walked away and have not looked back but I am very aware that my good or bad experiences with it are just that, mine. I know that there is not an abuser in every christian, just waiting to come out. Those people would be the same with or without religion. Many of them just flock to religion for redemption or hope like anyone else. I find all that in nature and the supernatural connections and experience of my own mind. I have talked to many ghosts over the years and none have told me that they are hanging with god. God doesn't even come up that I can recall. I guess I could ask but I think my family would have told me something so important. None of them talk about burning in hell so that is a good sign. For those thinking it, what I talk to are not demons. Demons are just our own fear manifested. I meet them in dreams. They are quite easy to defeat in a lucid dream but if not lucid it can be scary. I always end up escaping them lucid or not. I wake up unnerved but usually feel a weight lifted as I go about my day. If I can interpret my dream I fine especially when it helps with real life problems. Those are my personal demons.

    In conclusion many of my prayers have been answered as well but I could have prayed to a lamp with the same outcome if I believed it. Spirit guides and aliens were just as accommodating as god or jesus. It was all just me making things happen or not. I don't always know exactly what I did to get what I needed or wanted but subconsciously I made the choices that lead to many favorable outcomes. Of course in hindsight it is easier to interpret. When my "prayer" went unanswered it was because I was unable to influence the situation or I made the wrong choices.

    Prayers for other people were limited to praying for their health and happiness and I still send warm vibes to people I care about. I don't call them prayers and it is mostly an energy not something consciously arranged into words. They say they can feel it. Sometimes out of nowhere I will just tell them how I feel about them even if I barely know them. I want some people to know how they are appreciated even if I don't make an effort to talk to them much. Some of those people can energetically affect my mood just by seeing their name or they show up at the right moment and I feel uplifted and want to give some back.

    *I also am not above sending bad energy back to the sender by blocking it. I don't wish them any bad things. I just ask that their negativity be returned to them. All this stuff works if you believe it will. I have gotten my own negativity back when I had bad feelings toward some one. I usually know this is happening because I will stub my toe and it really hurts. I then give myself an attitude adjustment. I am always in a grumpy mood before I stub my toe. Snaps me right out of it after I scream.
    I only read the first part and then half-ass skimmed over stuff.

    Eastern Orthodox?

    Born again Christian = sin/win/sin? My religion is pretty much "ask for forgiveness and you're forgiven" without having to label the "born again" stuff. In my experiences, though, born agains treat it less like "I'm forgiven" and more like "nope, I'm born again, so it never even actually happened." I suppose it's like the whole "forgive but not forget" thing, in that born agains act like they erased their actions in society. Mine is more like "God forgives and forgets, but you still need such from your brothers and sisters." There's is more like "what brothers and sisters? It's alllll about me. At least, that's the way they come across.

  3. #3
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I only read the first part and then half-ass skimmed over stuff.

    Eastern Orthodox?

    Born again Christian = sin/win/sin? My religion is pretty much "ask for forgiveness and you're forgiven" without having to label the "born again" stuff. In my experiences, though, born agains treat it less like "I'm forgiven" and more like "nope, I'm born again, so it never even actually happened." I suppose it's like the whole "forgive but not forget" thing, in that born agains act like they erased their actions in society. Mine is more like "God forgives and forgets, but you still need such from your brothers and sisters." There's is more like "what brothers and sisters? It's alllll about me. At least, that's the way they come across.
    Greek Orthodox Christian specifically and the services were all in Greek. I was in the process of learning two languages when I first started going there. I daydreamed a lot and my American aunt forbid us to speak Greek in the house so as I learned more English the harder it was to understand the priest and the chanters. My favorite part of going to church was lighting the candles. the incense and the chanting. Our church walls were ceiling to floor icons and the windows were stained glass. I thought it was all so beautiful but haunting and scary too. The congregation was 3/4 Greek and the rest Americans, Armenians and Russians. I was allowed to drink coffee with milk and sugar but only at church, in the basement, after services. We had cake too. Somewhere between the ages of 7-9 I started throwing fits on sunday morning to get out of church. It didn't work. I think I was 12 when I finally refused to go and they could no longer make me. I had a lot of mixed feelings but overall everyone I met in that specific church were nice people and never talked about hell, at least not to the children. I got that at home from my mormon, turned baptist aunt. She finally converted to Greek Orthodox after remarrying my uncle in the Greek church and following all the steps. She never let go of her base beliefs in sin and hell. She was something. :/

    Then my bad experiences, which started with an aunt, continued with the born-agains but not at first. It was really insidious how they got young people to lure in other young people with promises that if you were born again you would not go to hell. I had the whole born-again religious experience and felt it like it was really happening, that Jesus had come into my heart and I was "saved". Remember this is a very influencing type of energy. It was present in a way that you thought you would live happily knowing you were going to heaven but they reinforced this by threatening with hell. In fact most of the sermons were about hellfire and nothing else. Very confusing for children and even young adults who are already questioning. #fearwasreal

    Ok, so I am not knocking the Greek church since I was young and it all seemed magical with the colorful pictures, incense, chanting, coffee and cake. It actually inspired me later to look into mythology more and that is when I started noticing the patterns repeating. The further I looked into mythological stories from every culture I started to see that the rabbit hole was deeper than I thought. I really got into Joseph Campbell for awhile, love him... rip.

    [Remember I am on chantrix and rambling today.I had a really cool magical + spiritual dream last night... oh, the memories from my childhood...our Greek church was a work of art decorated in gold. It would have been a cool art gallery with cake and coffee and I loved the communion wine.]
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 08:59 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Greek Orthodox Christian specifically and the services were all in Greek. I was in the process of learning two languages when I first started going there. I daydreamed a lot and my American aunt forbid us to speak Greek in the house so as I learned more English the harder it was to understand the priest and the chanters. My favorite part of going to church was lighting the candles. the incense and the chanting. Our church walls were ceiling to floor icons and the windows were stained glass. I thought it was all so beautiful but haunting and scary too. The congregation was 3/4 Greek and the rest Americans, Armenians and Russians. I was allowed to drink coffee with milk and sugar but only at church, in the basement, after services. We had cake too. Somewhere between the ages of 7-9 I started throwing fits on sunday morning to get out of church. It didn't work. I think I was 12 when I finally refused to go and they could no longer make me. I had a lot of mixed feelings but overall everyone I met in that specific church were nice people and never talked about hell, at least not to the children. I got that at home from my mormon, turned baptist aunt. She finally converted to Greek Orthodox after remarrying my uncle in the Greek church and following all the steps. She never let go of her base beliefs in sin and hell. She was something. :/

    Then my bad experiences, which started with an aunt, continued with the born-agains but not at first. It was really insidious how they got young people to lure in other young people with promises that if you were born again you would not go to hell. I had the whole born-again religious experience and felt it like it was really happening, that Jesus had come into my heart and I was "saved". Remember this is a very influencing type of energy. It was present in a way that you thought you would live happily knowing you were going to heaven but they reinforced this by threatening with hell. In fact most of the sermons were about hellfire and nothing else. Very confusing for children and even young adults who are already questioning. #fearwasreal

    Ok, so I am not knocking the Greek church since I was young and it all seemed magical with the colorful pictures, incense, chanting, coffee and cake. It actually inspired me later to look into mythology more and that is when I started noticing the patterns repeating. The further I looked into mythological stories from every culture I started to see that the rabbit hole was deeper than I thought. I really got into Joseph Campbell for awhile, love him... rip.

    [Remember I am on chantrix and rambling today.I had a really cool magical + spiritual dream last night... oh, the memories from my childhood...our Greek church was a work of art decorated in gold. It would have been a cool art gallery with cake and coffee and I loved the communion wine.]
    Not to be a dick, but people on here sure seem to have rather odd stories of their lives lol

    Anyways, so... Uh... Why not just get into the more mysticism side of your original religion? It makes more sense than choosing mysticism from random new age people, especially since there are libraries full of information on it.

    Born agains make me want to say, "but you were already baptized... (or not)" lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Not to be a dick, but people on here sure seem to have rather odd stories of their lives lol
    Edit: nevermind, I was being a dick too.

    Anyways, so... Uh... Why not just get into the more mysticism side of your original religion? It makes more sense than choosing mysticism from random new age people, especially since there are libraries full of information on it.

    Born agains make me want to say, "but you were already baptized... (or not)" lol
    While exploring mysticism I follow a logical path of progression, iow, I know too much to turn back. I still love the mystical feel of my original religion and I have a couple small altars in my house. One is primarily influenced by east asian and Indian mysticism. I have simplified my beliefs over the years Shedding many of them. I have two books I look to for spiritual guidance now, "The Tao Te Ching" and Richard Bach's "Illusions". Mysticism is found within since it is really a state of being. I can watch my mom and feel the same energy I had felt in the Greek church, I am moving forward.

    About born-agains, The first time you are baptized in water and the second time in spirit. According to them it doesn't matter if you were baptized as a baby or later in water, you are still going to hell if you do not get baptized in the holy spirit. It is a very subjective experience but because of the build up you feel like you have gained the keys to the kingdom. Pretty Fe actually because of the emotional influence involved. Then you start harassing your family member about going to hell, if they don't get baptized in spirit too, until someone finally snaps you out of it. For me it was an ILI stepdad.. I have since felt that same feeling, minus the Christian aspect, in a variety of other situations, including, during a physical interaction with another person who was not Jesus. Who knew?

    So, if the "born agains" are right I am actually saved if I ask to be forgiven at the moment of my death I will not be refused. Win/sin/win, see what I mean?

    Edit: Water vs spirit. http://ichthys.com/mail-born%20again.htm
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    While exploring mysticism I follow a logical path of progression, iow, I know too much to turn back. I still love the mystical feel of my original religion and I have a couple small altars in my house. One is primarily influenced by east asian and Indian mysticism. I have simplified my beliefs over the years Shedding many of them. I have two books I look to for spiritual guidance now, "The Tao Te Ching" and Richard Bach's "Illusions". Mysticism is found within since it is really a state of being. I can watch my mom and feel the same energy I had felt in the Greek church, I am moving forward.

    About born-agains, The first time you are baptized in water and the second time in spirit. According to them it doesn't matter if you were baptized as baby or later in water, you still go to hell if you do not get baptized in the holy spirit and it is a very subjective experience but because of the build up you feel like you have gained to the keys to the kingdom. Pretty Fe actually because of the emotional influence involved. Then you start harassing your family member about going to hell, if they don't get baptized in spirit too, until someone finally snaps you out of it. For me it was an ILI stepdad.. I have since felt that same feeling, minus the Christian aspect, in a variety of other situations, including, during a physical interaction with another person and not Jesus. Who knew?

    So, if the born again are right I am actually saved if I ask to be forgiven at the moment of my death I will not be refused. Win/sin/win see what I mean?
    So they basically reject their original baptism?

    Your last sentence is Catholicism as well. East Orthodox doesn't have forgiveness?

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    The dick part was referring to the family situations you seem to have grown up under, not the your reactions to it part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    So they basically reject their original baptism?

    Your last sentence is Catholicism as well. East Orthodox doesn't have forgiveness?
    Yeah original baptism was usually not your choice and it was only by water so in order to get to heaven you have to be baptized in spirit and it has to be a conscious choice. You basically ask for it and then wait for it to come over you.

    The Orthodox church has forgiveness. Like I said the people were really nice and yes forgiving, except behind closed doors but I got that from eavesdropping on adults. I have talked to Catholics who are less than forgiving too. They all pray for forgiveness though just like Catholics and they pray that they may forgive others.

    It has been awhile and I remember so little now about the whole born again process but this quote from that site explains it better than I do.

    Let us start with some pertinent principles. First, Paul's statement in 1Cor.1:17 that he was sent to preach the gospel not to baptize is very telling. It certainly does not say that water-baptism is wrong, but it is indeed a very strange statement to make if it were, in Paul's view of things, a mandate that all believers must be water-baptized. It is also true as you say in regard to Eph.4:5 that this verse does not rule out water-baptism. It does, however, state (on a par with there being only One Lord Jesus Christ) that there is indeed only "one" baptism. At the very least, this ought to mean that there is only one baptism of any true spiritual consequence, and, if that is true, no serious Christian would venture to place water-baptism in this premier position over and against the baptism of the Spirit.
    Clearly, water-baptism is not and could not be any sort of means or requirement for a salvation that is based upon grace through faith (Eph.2:8-9) - which begs the question of why then there should be a mandate to be baptized with water, especially since it is the Spirit baptism to which John and Jesus looked forward and told us to esteem (Mk.1:8; Lk.24:48; Jn.15:26; 16:5-15; Acts 1:4-5; 1:7-8), and since water baptism has been so historically divisive, so prone to the inducement of guilt and fear for the un-baptized, and so engendering of false confidence in works and rituals for the baptized.
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-06-2016 at 10:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I only read the first part and then half-ass skimmed over stuff.

    Eastern Orthodox?

    Born again Christian = sin/win/sin? My religion is pretty much "ask for forgiveness and you're forgiven" without having to label the "born again" stuff. In my experiences, though, born agains treat it less like "I'm forgiven" and more like "nope, I'm born again, so it never even actually happened." I suppose it's like the whole "forgive but not forget" thing, in that born agains act like they erased their actions in society. Mine is more like "God forgives and forgets, but you still need such from your brothers and sisters." There's is more like "what brothers and sisters? It's alllll about me. At least, that's the way they come across.
    Your god only "forgives" if you believe in him, and follow his immoral teachings, which include punishing people for having genuine doubts about not believing, and causing eternal suffering to those who have only committed mortal sins, at worst.

    Jesus died for no reason. The theological justification is that he died and suffered for a mere 3.5 days at most, for the sins of the whole world, to absolve a debt owed to himself. A judge or a banker would tell you that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    If Jesus's death absolved all the sin, then why do people still go to hell?

    Why does Jesus only have to suffer 3.5 days?

    How is causing another injustice (i.e. causing the one person who was allegedly without sin to suffer) moral? It is just another act of immorality to allow that to happen.

    The greatest crime is when a immortal being, with full foresight, allows injustice to happen. It is not humans who should be forgiven, but any god, if they happen to exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Your god only "forgives" if you believe in him, and follow his immoral teachings, which include punishing people for having genuine doubts about not believing, and causing eternal suffering to those who have only committed mortal sins, at worst.

    Jesus died for no reason. The theological justification is that he died and suffered for a mere 3.5 days at most, for the sins of the whole world, to absolve a debt owed to himself. A judge or a banker would tell you that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    If Jesus's death absolved all the sin, then why do people still go to hell?

    Why does Jesus only have to suffer 3.5 days?

    How is causing another injustice (i.e. causing the one person who was allegedly without sin to suffer) moral? It is just another act of immorality to allow that to happen.

    The greatest crime is when a immortal being, with full foresight, allows injustice to happen. It is not humans who should be forgiven, but any god, if they happen to exist.
    /chases you with a broom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    It is all very well to be "forgiven", but does it make you a better person?
    /whacks you with broom

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    I voted no because I don't know what "God" is or why I'd believe in it. I do believe in an underlying principle of everything as strongly as I can believe anything though. But how to act in accordance to that principle is something you ultimately have to figure out on your own, though I'm sure some religious texts have some good ideas.

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    Oh, I have acquaintances that are close with the main Wiccan societies of America.

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