View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?

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  • No

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Thread: Do you believe in God?

  1. #81
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    Happy and sad only exist in the context that imbalances exist.

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    @Aylen - Your post held no offense to me at all. Thank you for being so kind. And thanks for sharing your story. It grieves me to hear that the churches and people around you didn't answer your questions as a child, nor did they behave in ways that are pure and appropriate. One of my greatest frustrations has been the lack of venues for kids (or adults) to ask questions. As a music teacher, worship leader, and co-leader with our church youth, I think this is one of the most important things we can do. God gave us brains and expects us to use them in the seeking process.

    What I desire all people on this earth to know about me is the fact that I've done some extremely cruel things in my life. I knew those things were wrong when I did them - we all know when we do things that are wrong. I deserve justice for what I've done and said in my life, and yet I've received mercy. Because I've received mercy, I can give mercy. Because I've received forgiveness, I can forgive. Because I've received love, I can love. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. And God has shown us this love because that's how much He loves us.

    If we stand for nothing, we fall for everything. Do you have love that you would stand for?

    I asked a few people in chat the other day if they would be willing to die for anything or anyone. It's a difficult question to answer. What do you live enough to die for? We value our lives so dearly, yet we glorify and honor self sacrifice in our movies, stories, and songs. We watch and honor the sacrifices in movies like Armageddon and Titanic and Courage Under Fire. There IS no greater love than to die for someone or something, and Jesus did this for us.

    Jesus is the image of the invisible God - who is Spirit and light. He came not to condemn the world, but to save it because He loved it so dearly. He never turned anyone away from a healing. He showed compassion and love on the outcast, the ones society wouldn't even approach. This is God, and that's His heart.

    It breaks my heart to think that "religion" gets in the way of the simplicity of this.

    @Subteigh - it sounds like you know the Bible fairly well. I assume you grew up in church? Much of the Old Testament does include lying, cheating, and stealing because it is honest of the type of humans that we all are. God loved and worked with humans that are no different from today. We're imperfect and sometimes downright unlovable, and yet He still loves us, has patience with us, and pursues us.

    Jacob purchased his birthright from Esau fairly. And clearly, Esau did not treasure his birthright. In fact, he despised it. He said, "Of what use is a birthright to me?" He was looking out for himself and living for the moment, and didn't honor the tremendous blessing he'd been given. My husband and my brother are the oldest in their families and they take that responsibility and honor seriously. It's a gift, and it has molded them into men of great character.

    As for the neighboring tribes, they were sacrificing their own children in fires. If you saw your neighbors throwing their own children to their death into the fires, would you not do something to stop it? God has every right and authority to declare justice, and to stop that kind of madness. Genocide was necessary, because these rituals were being passed down through generations in those tribes.

    The translation for Jesus not attending the feast does not always include the word "yet." He stayed in Galilee for quite some time before He went to the feast.

    The Bible is God breathed, and there is nothing in there in which God has tried to hide or needs to hide. If you approach it with an honest intention to understand the context, God-willing, you'll see that. Everything God has asked of us is good and out of love.

    Love your neighbor.
    Honor your parents.
    Don't lie, cheat, steal, murder.
    Give to the poor. Care for the needy.
    Be faithful to your spouse. Honor and cherish them.
    When someone sues you, give them also your cloak.
    Don't spend your lives storing treasures here on earth. It is more blessed to give, to care for others, to spend your time helping others.

    These are all good and wonderful things, things we honor and glorify but seldom do.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  3. #83
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    With all due respect, @applejacks, I would refrain from defending God's virtue.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    With all due respect, @applejacks, I would refrain from defending God's virtue.
    Would you defend someone you loved, especially if you felt others had them wrong?
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    @Aylen - Your post held no offense to me at all. Thank you for being so kind. And thanks for sharing your story. It grieves me to hear that the churches and people around you didn't answer your questions as a child, nor did they behave in ways that are pure and appropriate. One of my greatest frustrations has been the lack of venues for kids (or adults) to ask questions. As a music teacher, worship leader, and co-leader with our church youth, I think this is one of the most important things we can do. God gave us brains and expects us to use them in the seeking process.

    What I desire all people on this earth to know about me is the fact that I've done some extremely cruel things in my life. I knew those things were wrong when I did them - we all know when we do things that are wrong. I deserve justice for what I've done and said in my life, and yet I've received mercy. Because I've received mercy, I can give mercy. Because I've received forgiveness, I can forgive. Because I've received love, I can love. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. And God has shown us this love because that's how much He loves us.

    If we stand for nothing, we fall for everything. Do you have love that you would stand for?

    I asked a few people in chat the other day if they would be willing to die for anything or anyone. It's a difficult question to answer. What do you live enough to die for? We value our lives so dearly, yet we glorify and honor self sacrifice in our movies, stories, and songs. We watch and honor the sacrifices in movies like Armageddon and Titanic and Courage Under Fire. There IS no greater love than to die for someone or something, and Jesus did this for us.

    Jesus is the image of the invisible God - who is Spirit and light. He came not to condemn the world, but to save it because He loved it so dearly. He never turned anyone away from a healing. He showed compassion and love on the outcast, the ones society wouldn't even approach. This is God, and that's His heart.

    It breaks my heart to think that "religion" gets in the way of the simplicity of this.

    @Subteigh - it sounds like you know the Bible fairly well. I assume you grew up in church? Much of the Old Testament does include lying, cheating, and stealing because it is honest of the type of humans that we all are. God loved and worked with humans that are no different from today. We're imperfect and sometimes downright unlovable, and yet He still loves us, has patience with us, and pursues us.

    Jacob purchased his birthright from Esau fairly. And clearly, Esau did not treasure his birthright. In fact, he despised it. He said, "Of what use is a birthright to me?" He was looking out for himself and living for the moment, and didn't honor the tremendous blessing he'd been given. My husband and my brother are the oldest in their families and they take that responsibility and honor seriously. It's a gift, and it has molded them into men of great character.

    As for the neighboring tribes, they were sacrificing their own children in fires. If you saw your neighbors throwing their own children to their death into the fires, would you not do something to stop it? God has every right and authority to declare justice, and to stop that kind of madness. Genocide was necessary, because these rituals were being passed down through generations in those tribes.

    The translation for Jesus not attending the feast does not always include the word "yet." He stayed in Galilee for quite some time before He went to the feast.

    The Bible is God breathed, and there is nothing in there in which God has tried to hide or needs to hide. If you approach it with an honest intention to understand the context, God-willing, you'll see that. Everything God has asked of us is good and out of love.

    Love your neighbor.
    Honor your parents.
    Don't lie, cheat, steal, murder.
    Give to the poor. Care for the needy.
    Be faithful to your spouse. Honor and cherish them.
    When someone sues you, give them also your cloak.
    Don't spend your lives storing treasures here on earth. It is more blessed to give, to care for others, to spend your time helping others.

    These are all good and wonderful things, things we honor and glorify but seldom do.
    There are instances in the bible where both god and Jesus (who believed he was god) lied, or caused others to lie. There is also the infamous case of god hardening the heart of the pharaoh, and thus leading to the unnecessary deaths of thousands.

    More importantly, god slaughtered the entire population of the Earth bare a few people, at a time when the estimated population of the Earth was about 25 million. I personally believe that murder is wrong, but killing children is especially despicable.

    With the tribes that the Israelities wiped out and stole the land from, the Israelities not only killed the children, they killed the men, the women, the sheep, the goats, and every last living thing that breathed. So in actual fact, the Israelities were worse, by their own admission. This was by god's sanction too. In other instances, they just killed the men, and the married women, and took women as sex slaves and children as slaves. The UN Convention on Human Rights owes nothing whatsoever to the alleged morals of the god of the bible, fortunately.

    Jesus said if someone strikes you, turn the other cheek. However, he also said those who do not follow his teachings would suffer for eternity. On balance, this is the most evil ideology ever devised.

    Jesus scorned Judas who said that washing his feet with expensive perfume (worth more than a year's salary) was a waste that would have been better spent on the poor, saying he was more important and that the poor will be with you always (a rather odd thing to say, considering that Jesus believed in the eternity of heaven). Jesus was not only morally wrong here (and Judas correct), he was probably factually wrong also: the UN reckons that absolute poverty will be eradicated by 2030. If the Church had actually done something positive about poverty over the last 2 millenia, this goal would have probably have been achieved many centuries ago. Instead, you have people like Teresa of Calcutta, very much of the same cloth as Jesus, who saw suffering as desirable for her purpose.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Would you defend someone you loved, especially if you felt others had them wrong?
    I think if you are infinite in energy, and if the question of whether or not billions of people will suffer for eternity is based on believing you exist, then you should defend yourself, not get mere mortals to do it.

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    Well, you're infinitely stupid compared to God, so doesn't questioning him just make you more stupid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, you're infinitely stupid compared to God, so doesn't questioning him just make you more stupid?
    It isn't possible to be infinitely stupider than something that doesn't exist. And being stupid does not make someone incapable of determining that the ideology attributed to the Abrahamic god is fundamentally evil. Also, if I am infinitely stupid compared to god, than he must be infinitely incompetent for making me such, despite being allegedly omnipotent.

    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."

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    You can't question God, nor his existence, without already not believing in him. The blind belief that he doesn't exist is a precursor to all arguments against him.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    You can't question God, nor his existence, without already not believing in him. The blind belief that he doesn't exist is a precursor to all arguments against him.

    This whole thread is a train wreck.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    You can't question God, nor his existence, without already not believing in him. The blind belief that he doesn't exist is a precursor to all arguments against him.
    I disagree. If something is observed or merely be conjectured, it can be questioned by those who do not believe, or who have doubt. Any phenomenon that exists is capable of being observed, in the strict definition of the word.

    However, god is defined as supernatural, which means that it is not capable of being observed. You cannot have your cake and eat it. Either an entity has a measurable and observable effect on existence, and is thus natural, or, it does not exist. Believing in a god is contrary to observation, and must necessarily cloud your judgement.

    Further, believing that your deity is moral despite the doctrine of Damnation is absolutely contrary to all notions of Reasonableness. It is an act of sheer depravity to justify the doctrine of Damnation, and for example, to justify genocides committed in his name, as many have done.

    People say that if you abandon belief in god, you are capable of great acts of evil. I think it is more true that if you belief in the righteousness of the doctrine of Damnation, you are capable of great acts of evil, and if the justification comes from the certainty of god's existence, then you are of the mindset where you have abandoned all reason and all notions of morality. If your ethics is determined by something that you cannot observe and which you are unwilling to appraise the appropriateness of the doctrine, then naturally, if you suddenly abandon belief in god, you truly are capable of great acts of evil, because you have never done your own reasoning and because treating others based on empirical notions of ethics will be utterly alien to you.

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    The finite can exist within the infinite, but the infinite cannot exist within the finite. The human mind is a finite construct, with a finite speed and capacity for reason. For the human mind to attempt to reason the infinite, it must first reject it's own finite nature or the nature of the infinite, both of which are the evidence of it's own finite nature within the infinite, and both of which constitute insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    The finite can exist within the infinite, but the infinite cannot exist within the finite. The human mind is a finite construct, with a finite speed and capacity for reason. For the human mind to attempt to reason the infinite, it must first reject it's own finite nature or the nature of the infinite, both of which are the evidence of it's own finite nature within the infinite, and both of which constitute insanity.
    There is nothing especially magically about the infinite, if it exists. Saying that the supernatural is beyond our comprehension and yet that it exists is just pure nonsense. It offers nothing. You have zero evidence. You only need a dictionary to know that the supernatural has no observable effect on the universe, and no amount of special pleading will change that.

    If a powerful entity has any effect on reality, it is necessarily a lesser part of reality, subject to all the laws of nature, as with everything else. I would say it is for you to prove otherwise except it would be a stupid thing to say: any observation would necessarily be within the laws of nature, by definition.

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    Well, your first sentence proved my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, your first sentence proved my point.
    No. Neither of us have proved your view that the supernatural exists. You have offered no physical evidence so far, and in any case, you can not do so.

    All you have done is engaged in special pleading and empty rhetoric that disguises itself as an argument worthy of consideration, and hurled out ad hominems in an apparent effort to show that even if god does not exist, his followers are certainly capable of being from the same nasty nadir of humanity.

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    I already logically proved it.

    Also, pi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Would you defend someone you loved, especially if you felt others had them wrong?
    I'm Se PoLR; I carry a white flag in my handbag. You know, even Jesus did not seem overly appreciative of Peter coming to His rescue.

    Still, I think we can all agree (albeit for very different reasons) that in the aftermath of this discussion God won't take a dent to God's brand new perfect nail polish. Your feelings might get hurt though while others are just fencing eristic for kicks (which, why not?)
    Speak truth to those who will listen. (That's Seneca, I think - for variety's sake.) It's not like you can instill faith in anybody, and it's not your job.
    Also, Jesus justifies people to God, people don't get to justify God, the concept itself is laughable to me. But maybe it's just me.
    Most definitely it goes against anything and everything that modern culture teaches us about equal, healthy, partner relationship (well, maybe consensual dom/sub, with a lot of blindfolds? funny, I've always been saying these don't appeal to me in the least). That's the beauty of it, partially.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    I'm Se PoLR
    You may to be other type and more probably you are.

    Most definitely it goes against anything and everything that modern culture teaches us about equal, healthy, partner relationship
    There is not much healthy in modern Western culture about peoples relations. It's individualistic culture wich is in essence against peoples relations as persons. That's why it destroys and profanes institute of family. Being individualistic it's against love itself.
    So the modern Western culture is against Christianity and traditional understanding of the God wich is based on love and freedom of the spirit. It's closer to Satanism. That's why you'll soon may see Christianity reformed/perverted (or destroyed) even more, than Popism and Protestantism did in past. And that's why the most common popularized in "Western" medias relation to Christianity is and will be negative: directly or indirectly.

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    Sol! Do you even have an actual physical body or just an astral one? I just can't imagine you different than this gloomy voice of doom. Sorry!
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Would you defend someone you loved, especially if you felt others had them wrong?
    Absolutely.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I hope y'all don't go around in public talking of such natures.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    I'm Se PoLR; I carry a white flag in my handbag. You know, even Jesus did not seem overly appreciative of Peter coming to His rescue.

    Still, I think we can all agree (albeit for very different reasons) that in the aftermath of this discussion God won't take a dent to God's brand new perfect nail polish. Your feelings might get hurt though while others are just fencing eristic for kicks (which, why not?)
    Speak truth to those who will listen. (That's Seneca, I think - for variety's sake.) It's not like you can instill faith in anybody, and it's not your job.
    Also, Jesus justifies people to God, people don't get to justify God, the concept itself is laughable to me. But maybe it's just me.
    Most definitely it goes against anything and everything that modern culture teaches us about equal, healthy, partner relationship (well, maybe consensual dom/sub, with a lot of blindfolds? funny, I've always been saying these don't appeal to me in the least). That's the beauty of it, partially.
    My feelings aren't hurt. I totally get that people will be opposed. And no, you're right, I can't provide faith for anyone. But faith comes from hearing the gospel (Romans 10:17). So if getting involved in a discussion like this allows an opportunity, I intend to take it.

    As for my job- how do you tell someone not to share their joy in a thread titled with their joy? Besides, I tend to disagree. Christians are called to carry the gospel to the highways and hedges. Threads on the internet titled "Do You Believe in God?" seem like a good place to carry it.

    Interesting point about justification. I actually like that, and you're right. My view here, however, was that there were individuals here that had questions about the Bible from a young age who did not receive answers from the church. I wasn't necessarily trying to justify as much as I was trying to discuss and answer.

    As for Peter- I have no intention of slicing ears off today
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    I'll do it!

    /chop chop chop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I already logically proved it.

    Also, pi.
    You cannot prove the supernatural, it is oxymoronic. And god's moral failings are even more problematic.

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    How does pi prove the existence of a god, @Jeremy8419? Pi is what it is, but I don't understand how or why it proves, disproves, or has to do w a creator. Please explain in layman's terms if you don't mind.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    God is infinite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    God is infinite.

    The existence of an infinite thing (pi [if it is indeed infinite], space [if it is indeed infinite], etc.) does not prove the existence of any other particular thing (including god [whether he/she/it is infinite or not], at least as far as I understand, at least not without making a logical jump/assumpton. Do you have any additional explanation? I'm really asking.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    It's higher up in thread. The infinite existing was part of it, to which SubT questioned the existence of the infinite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    It's higher up in thread. The infinite existing was part of it, to which SubT questioned the existence of the infinite.
    I did not question the existence of the infinite in this thread. You seem to think infinite = supernatural.

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    @do i believe in God

    yes, i do. based on a personal experience that i had in my early 30s (I was agnostic before that), although what God is isn't a solid concept for me. In my mind it can go from a powerful story/aspect of human psychology (that I'm willing to buy into because it has helped me immensly/saved my life by answering me/being there with me when i needed it most/asked) to a real being of some sort (same as above) , I'm never sure on this and it tends to move around in my mind. this bothers me sometimes, but generally i've gotten to a point where I've just had to accept that this is part of who i am at this time (someone who is more comfortable/directed towards seeing all the possibilities of a things existence, instead of a strong yes or no answer). and i ask(pray)/hope that clarity on this comes to me sometime in my life if clarity is required before i die.
    Last edited by bg; 03-10-2016 at 03:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    You cannot prove the supernatural, it is oxymoronic. And god's moral failings are even more problematic.
    This is partly true since the experiences are often subjective. I mean aren't you glad we don't have supernatural beings running around earth doing whatever they want Supernatural style? Even in Supernatural most humans are blissfully unaware of being pawns in a game. hah

    Some things cannot be unknown.




    Seriously though, the only way to prove it is if something happens right in front of someone else. Say all the cabinet doors open and there is no disputing it. You both agree it happened. They are not automatic/electronic. Just regular cabinets. The problem is telling the stories to others.

    Example: I was home alone one day (years ago), doors locked (I always lock when alone) vacuuming a room. I remembered I needed to grab something from the other room.I got what I needed and came back. The cannister from my vacuum was gone and there was a little round pile of dirt on the floor with a brush beside it. The brush had been attached to the side. There was no more dirt anywhere else but that small pile.

    I looked all around until I saw that it was in the living room with the top still attached. I was a bit scared and my first thought was, "did I do this and don't remember?" because I am not sure that physics allow for it to pop out on it's own, climb a step, and end up about 18 ft, roughly, from where it started. The carpet edge in the other room would have limited the roll distance before it reached it's final resting place. Also how the hell did it jump a step on a hard floor...

    All this was racing through my mind. Believe It when I say I was looking for rational explanations. I was gone a minute, or two, tops. I checked doors, still locked. No one was home. I asked the two people who lived there, at the time, if they were messing with me when they got home. They swore they would not do that knowing my history. I was practically crying at this point so I believed them.

    As of now, as far as I am concerned, I have filed this under, "unexplainable, perhaps supernatural activity". I gave up on knowing what really happened that day. I have had so many types of experiences like this that it would be pointless to give them any more attention than I already have. I grew up with stuff like this happening. Things moving around, disappearing and appearing, doors opening and closing on their own, strange sounds and sometimes voices whispering. I have mentioned before that I have been diagnosed with various conditions (not full schizophrenia though) just for telling people outside my family about these things.

    Back to the vacuum incident of 2005, I seriously thought I was going crazy so I posted to a metaphysical group and got all kinds of responses. Primarily that it was spirits playing with me but other people kind of reinforced my thinking I was going crazy by telling me I did it and just didn't remember. There was a good reason that they may have thought that too. Something I have shared here before but do not want to talk about. I ended up going with the with the spirits idea at that time. Aliens were also suggested but between the two I went with spirits. It was better than the alternatives to me.

    Moral of the story, keep it to yourself unless you are talking to people, of like mind, who are interested in exploring unusual, possibly supernatural phenomenon. If someone else is with you keep it between you unless it is with people as previously mentioned. Do this because people are naturally skeptics, when it comes to certain supernatural experiences, yet believe in something that has never been seen by a human eye like god. The reactions I get when telling most christians about this stuff is, it didn't happen and my mind played tricks on me or it was demons. bleh No thanks to the demon theory.

    I am also a skeptic to other people's experiences of the supernatural sort which may come off hypocritical but I can truly only vouch for my own or if I am a witness to someone else's. I am a optimistic skeptic but I also want to believe that someone would not make up something like that and present it as true. I want to know that they actually believe it happened and not purposely making things up for money or whatever. Write a fiction book or something if it is just a made up story. I might even read it but I do not want to be tricked into believing something that didn't happen.

    When I watch horror movies I am often thinking rationally. When you hear growling or other strange sounds in your house do not look for them in the basement, alone, in the dark. Do not stay in the house if furniture or other items are rearranged or actually move. That stuff scares me in the movies but in real life, even if I am scared, I will investigate strange sounds and things disappearing or doors opening or slamming shut. I go toward them instead of run away. As a child I would run and hide under blankets though. hahah These days I tell myself stuff like doors and windows rattling are only the wind. Even if it isn't windy. It is more comforting to think it is the wind but in the back of my mind I know something else is up. I just can't explain what it is even to my satisfaction.

    As I write this my text keeps disappearing when I go to post it, similar to how my tv kept turning off when I was trying to post in this thread the other day. I know from experience that when I speak of the supernatural I need to keep a backup copy Each time it disappears it is like I know I am supposed to keep clarifying and adding information. I am actually not even freaked out about it.

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    Last edited by Aylen; 10-10-2019 at 02:43 PM. Reason: correction

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    It's higher up in thread. The infinite existing was part of it, to which SubT questioned the existence of the infinite.
    No it isn't, at least not in any clear way that answers the question I asked. Which is fine since as far as I know the question I asked can't be answered. You can't prove god, and no one can disprove god...again, as far as I know.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    This is partly true since the experiences are often subjective. I mean aren't you glad we don't have supernatural beings running around earth doing whatever they want Supernatural style? Even in Supernatural most humans are blissfully unaware of being pawns in a game. hah

    Some things cannot be unknown.


    that is an incredible story.

    I would say that those who seek to explain things through explanations they label "supernatural" are rather narrow-minded. They must be, if they limit themselves to explanations that are not possible, nevermind capable of being observed.

    I think in situations like that, it is very difficult, because you would naturally doubt your own sanity, and would feel rather helpless and at a lost about what you should do. You would of course fear what others would think if you told them, and that it might be something that is liable to repeat itself in the future.

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    I've enjoyed reading people's responses...it's cool to see where people stand, and why.

    To answer the question myself: I consider myself agnostic. I kinda-sorta do believe in god, but I am self-aware enough to wonder how much of that belief is because of how much I want there to be a god. I have had some experiences that make me believe in god, but then again I look at the cruelty people face without comfort, at least in this life, and that people commit seemingly without consequences, at least in this life, and I question god's existence (or, if god does exist, god's morality). I also find it annoying when people say things like god helped them build a business or conceive a child or do whatever, since at the very same time that god, should he/she/it exist, is neglecting or ignoring tremendous pain in the lives of so many other lives.

    --


    I have a question for those of you who believe in the definite existence or nonexistence of god: does it bother you when people believe the opposite? And why or why not?
    Last edited by SongOfSapphire; 03-09-2016 at 08:50 PM.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    that is an incredible story.

    I would say that those who seek to explain things through explanations they label "supernatural" are rather narrow-minded. They must be, if they limit themselves to explanations that are not possible, nevermind capable of being observed.

    I think in situations like that, it is very difficult, because you would naturally doubt your own sanity, and would feel rather helpless and at a lost about what you should do. You would of course fear what others would think if you told them, and that it might be something that is liable to repeat itself in the future.
    Mmhmm, but, thankfully I enjoy my brand of insanity, and have a special grip on it, other people's, not always as much.






    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I have a question for those of you who believe in the definite existence or nonexistence of god: does it bother you when people don't believe? And why or why not?
    It bothers me greatly. I consider the whole topic of god a total waste of time. It typically focuses far too much on whether god actually exists, rather than on whether it is moral and worth worshiping. I find it horrific that the Abrahamic god has been normalised into our society, to the extent that genocide can be rationalised and Damnation justified. It is despicable that such religions are seen as fundamentally humane.

    To a lesser extent, I am also bothered by the time spent arguing against those who insist that god exists despite being utterly unable to provide any demonstration:- to such people, their idea of god is vague but typically invokes a being with supernatural powers that they have seen evidence of. I find this deeply frustrating, as highlighted in this thread: the simple truth is, god does not work as a hypothesis, nevermind as a confirmed force of nature (to be a hypothesis, god would have to be a possible explanation of nature in accordance with previously made observations. To define your god as being outside or [/i]greater[/i] than nature is pure nonsense. It is certainly not something to base a system of "ethics" on, whereby if you do not believe in this being, you will be Damned. Those who believe in the doctrine of Damnation should understand that not only do they believe in the justification of great evil, they wish suffering on those who have very good reason not to believe, both physically and morally.

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    I truly hate this topic of conversation because all it leads to is pointless debates and nitpicking and it goes nowhere. Ill give my answer for @sapphire

    I did grow up in a christian home so, I do believe in God because,for me, thats normal. Ive never been abused by anyone claiming the title of christian, actually its the exact opposite. My church is full of absolute unconditional love, its welcoming. So much so to the point that we were accused of being a cult. Ive had this on and off relationship with God though. Ive gotten saved, I dont know how many times in my life and it usually wears off within three days, I get upset because I cant hear God like other christians in my life, or I try to stop myself from commiting a sin but fail. Recently I told God, "ya know what? I dont really know if you exist, but if you do, you'll have to give me a sign beyond any shadow of a doubt.' People always tell me stories of all these miraculous things that have happened in their lives, and Ive witnessed some myself but then its just like, here I am mundane, dont really know why Im not experiencing these revelations or having God show up in a way that I personally know its him. Ive renounced the title christian for now because it doesnt fit my lifestyle. Uhh. Kind of a ramble...but there it is...

    Relationship status: Its complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    No it isn't, at least not in any clear way that answers the question I asked. Which is fine since as far as I know the question I asked can't be answered. You can't prove god, and no one can disprove god...again, as far as I know.
    "The finite can exist within the infinite, but the infinite cannot exist within the finite. The human mind is a finite construct, with a finite speed and capacity for reason. For the human mind to attempt to reason the infinite, it must first reject it's own finite nature or the nature of the infinite, both of which are the evidence of it's own finite nature within the infinite, and both of which constitute insanity."

    God is infinite by definition. You cannot argue in favor of God not existing without first rejecting the definition of God, in which case you are arguing something else, or without first rejecting your own finite capacity for reason or the nature of the infinite without having a logical break. By entering into the argument of the existence of God, you have already entered a closed-loop logical system, whereby you only either fail at logical connections or reach the boundaries of the closed loop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I did not question the existence of the infinite in this thread. You seem to think infinite = supernatural.
    There is nothing especially magically about the infinite, if it exists.
    Yeah huhhh

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I have a question for those of you who believe in the definite existence or nonexistence of god: does it bother you when people believe the opposite? And why or why not?
    Why do you think religious wars exist?

    Personally, I like to think I'm becoming pretty immune to that.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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