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Thread: Courting an ISTj woman / LSI female

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    lack of fe
    I actually find 2D Fe isn't that bad


    heh, i dunno, i think they can use their Fe up on the ISTj
    Yeahh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Good luck to you too I mean, if you have your eyes on one right now
    Haha thanks, but I am not seriously "pursuing" any LSI at this moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    it's kind of curious that there are mostly iei's and entj's in here
    The ExEs are too busy doing (Fe) stuff with real people in the real world to bother checking up on this thread.

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    The ExEs are too busy doing (Fe) stuff with real people in the real world to bother checking up on this thread.
    What's the real world?

    Seriously, these days it seems that most people are on the internet

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    ExEs can certainly find social engagement on the internet, why not. It's not inconceivable for ExEs to find themselves separated from their social networks for whatever reason (moving, new job, other people moved away, not being around ppl they have much in common with, etc), which would be an unbearable thing for them to take in solitude pending establishment of a new social network.

    Those of you who are younger (high school, college aged, early-mid 20s) may not have this perspective yet, as society sort of hands everyone a built in source of real life social networking in the form of "school" and soon after graduating from whatever it is, it's still quite easy to be in touch with that social network for some time. Going further into adulthood, it gets harder to do, as people start to marry off and/or get busy with their full time jobs and/or families, and over time you may start having less in common, etc. If you yourself are also transitioning frequently, it takes time to find your new social group in your new milieu. In the meantime, a social network on the internet can be a temporary/partial substitute, and even a source of new IRL friends. I've personally made a few IRL friends from here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I find it interesting to see how I naturally fall into this kind of behaviour both @Adam Strange and @Narc have recommended around LSIs.

    Being a female IEI, I won't "court" an LSI guy (nor girl, I am not gay haha) per se, but I will start to automatically put an emphasis on my Fe use, like laugh more openly more often. It is like I intuitively know they'd like that. And I can usually detect some kind of appreciation for it in their eyes and demeanor, haha. It is fun.
    Yeah... I also find myself instinctively acting this way around guys i'm attracted to.
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    My comment on ExEs was a bit facetious.
    Of course there are ExE online. However, it is predominately Introverted Intuitive types that murk in those Typology forums. Partly because it is more "natural" for them to do so, being introverted and liking abstract theoretical stuff.

    Hence it takes a bit longer for an Extrovert and/or Sensor to enter this scene. Not saying they never do, but it is just less common in general, in comparison to the Introverted Intuitive types.

    Aka, the most likely to be(come) part of such Forums, in this order:

    INxx
    ENxx / ISxx (depends on the individual and lifestyle)
    ESxx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    can you not feel energy in everyone? i find most people haev dark sucking energies.

    i'm not sure what a strong physical presence is.

    kids usually have cleaner energy. (until something goes wrong)

    i feel energy mostly with people below the solar plexus - more like navel/sacral/whatever.
    you know, i actually wondered about this .. maybe Se types (or other types?) sense all these energies all along, and it's just me with my 'flat' perception of things who misses out all the cool stuff. sometimes Fe creative like a glow emanating from the face when they genuinely smile about something. but otherwise, nope, i don't perceive energies often. (however, i feel whether something is draining, or energising etc ... i perceive the effect on myself, but i don't actually "see" where it is coming from.)

    now i wonder what kind of energies you pick up

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Sure not ILI, that type of LSI? Just curious how you differentiate.
    LSI for sure, very different from ILIs. what i meant is independent from sociotype, i've seen SLIs, ESIs, etc ... like this. they often are in academia and very dry and intellectual (i think it also might heavily dependent on the specific academic culture in my country) and they fight with words, words, words under a specific framework they are operating under. i like their contributions, but it can be draining in personal interaction, especially since their system is so closed. it's unrelated from stacking and sociotype.


    Good luck Let us know..
    haha, thanks! but i have no specific plans (yet ). although i thought about it a bit more, and i think i mistyped him -> he's SLE-Ti > LSI-Se .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    you know, i actually wondered about this .. maybe Se types (or other types?) sense all these energies all along, and it's just me with my 'flat' perception of things who misses out all the cool stuff. sometimes Fe creative like a glow emanating from the face when they genuinely smile about something. but otherwise, nope, i don't perceive energies often. (however, i feel whether something is draining, or energising etc ... i perceive the effect on myself, but i don't actually "see" where it is coming from.)

    now i wonder what kind of energies you pick up
    I don't do this either so it's not Se


    LSI for sure, very different from ILIs. what i meant is independent from sociotype, i've seen SLIs, ESIs, etc ... like this. they often are in academia and very dry and intellectual (i think it also might heavily dependent on the specific academic culture in my country) and they fight with words, words, words under a specific framework they are operating under. i like their contributions, but it can be draining in personal interaction, especially since their system is so closed. it's unrelated from stacking and sociotype.
    Very different from ILI how? I sometimes take my time to be able to separate them from each other when typing someone so I'm curious


    haha, thanks! but i have no specific plans (yet ). although i thought about it a bit more, and i think i mistyped him -> he's SLE-Ti > LSI-Se .
    Why SLE-Ti Again, you know I'm into that topic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    Very different from ILI how?
    Are you asking how LSI's are different from ILI's? LSI's are warmer, friendlier, better adjusted (or seem to be), more open, they smile and laugh more readily (as if the world held a great joke) and they are instantly very likable. I have very good friends who are ILI, but they are colder and more analytic, and smile and laugh only rarely.

    I was reminded of these characteristics just today. I met and sat across from an LSI at dinner, and even though we both brought dinner companions (hers more permanent than mine), she and I did most of the talking and had a great time. At least, until mine stood up and indicated she was ready to leave. (In retrospect, that probably didn't turn out as well as it should have.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    you know, i actually wondered about this .. maybe Se types (or other types?) sense all these energies all along, and it's just me with my 'flat' perception of things who misses out all the cool stuff. sometimes Fe creative like a glow emanating from the face when they genuinely smile about something. but otherwise, nope, i don't perceive energies often. (however, i feel whether something is draining, or energising etc ... i perceive the effect on myself, but i don't actually "see" where it is coming from.)

    now i wonder what kind of energies you pick up
    Now that you mention it i don't always "see" energy... emotional energy sometimes i can feel, and underestimate the effect that it is having on me.

    That said there's different ways of being... there's coming into a foreign environment and picking up various energys in an environment, and there's being enmeshed in an environment and accustomed to it. People who are on different wavelengths to you can seem foreign and alien etc. Whereas people on more similar wavelengths seem more familiar.

    I don't smile much. But somehow I still come across as Fe-seeking?

    But yeah - physical is different from energy - and there's different kinds of energies -

    Like if someone smiles and you're looking at them you may notice, but if you're not looking at them you may not notice. Whereas energy you can still notice if not looking. (even looking is complicated; in that you can be looking at one thing and pick up things in peripherial vision etc.

    I kind of assume most people are draining, but I'm not sure why. There are lots of positive happy people...

    Anyway with draining people (so most people) it makes sense to keep some distance. Whereas energising people can come closer. That said I think I'd rather keep people at a distance for the most part, cos most people are just a hinderance. But you can keep people at a distance by being nice, as it creates a kind of veneer and keeps intensity lower.

    And I wonder if it's because I generally keep people at a bit of a distance that things like energy are clearer - as when everything's up close, then things can get a little more distorted.

    Anyway, energy is a malleable thing - and just because someone has an energy signature in one instance doesn't mean it's going to stay the same - and shifting peoples energy is a thing.
    Last edited by Satan; 11-02-2015 at 08:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    Now that you mention it i don't always "see" energy... emotional energy sometimes i can feel, and underestimate the effect that it is having on me.
    All your stuff here is foreign to me, lol

    I don't find people draining by default, as objects in a crowd, fine. If I have to interact with them, anyone's fine for a short while. Afterwards only if I find them interesting. All the other people will be draining but not because of these energy stuffs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Are you asking how LSI's are different from ILI's? LSI's are warmer, friendlier, better adjusted (or seem to be), more open, they smile and laugh more readily (as if the world held a great joke) and they are instantly very likable. I have very good friends who are ILI, but they are colder and more analytic, and smile and laugh only rarely.

    I was reminded of these characteristics just today. I met and sat across from an LSI at dinner, and even though we both brought dinner companions (hers more permanent than mine), she and I did most of the talking and had a great time. At least, until mine stood up and indicated she was ready to leave. (In retrospect, that probably didn't turn out as well as it should have.)
    Hmm well I'm friendly and responsive but I don't laugh all the time on my own. Guess this is only partially related to type. Other people can put me in a good enough mood for it though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Hmm well I'm friendly and responsive but I don't laugh all the time on my own. Guess this is only partially related to type. Other people can put me in a good enough mood for it though
    Exactly. With the right conversation partner, LSI's do brighten up and laugh. But unlike ILI's, they are almost there already.

    Remember, one of the signature functions of LIE's is to respond to a very pessimistic ESI and bring her out of her depths of pessimism and doubt. We do that the way most people breath, without thinking about it, 24/7. We project unbounded optimism and fix the problem, especially when we see someone who is looking too serious.

    It is not a coincidence that two LIE's, myself and @Narc, were the first to respond to this thread on how to court an ISTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Exactly. With the right conversation partner, LSI's do brighten up and laugh. But unlike ILI's, they are almost there already.
    Fe-seeking vs Fe PoLR, basically.

    LSI's actually desire good hearty laughs, whereas ILI's can be rather wary/suspicious of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Fe-seeking vs Fe PoLR, basically.

    LSI's actually desire good hearty laughs, whereas ILI's can be rather wary/suspicious of them.
    mmhmm, good hearty laughs. my favourite.

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    Make your interest in the ISTj obvious
    Don't show interest in other dating prospects
    Show that you are reliable
    Show you are serious and not just playing the field
    Give the ISTj no reason to question your intentions
    Don't break their heart
    MAKE THEM LAUGH AND BREAK DOWN THEIR WALL... if you can do that you're in.
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    There is this one LSI guy who seems to follow this one formula with me! Not exactly, but similarly. In that manner, an LSI might court someone similarly to how they want to get courted themselves, to some degree.

    This seems so narcissistic, but I'll have to quote myself to make my point, haha:

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    The simple formula for courting an LSI (male or female) is: Smile/laugh a lot + be friendly + befriend their friends/get into their social circle + get close = relationship.

    It started with him sitting right next to me in class about two weeks ago, I think.
    He walks into the room, looks at me: "Is it okay if I sit here?" - "Yeah."
    Me being super-Victim and shy, I did not say anything else to him, and he did not say anything either. Haha. So, that was kind of weird.

    Another time, he seemed to occasionally observe me on the train after class. We were both in the same one, he was not in my close proximity, several meters away, talking to a friend. Though I felt like he was sometimes looking at me.

    Last week (wait... or was it this one? haha), he suddenly asked my ESI friend whether she could email him some notes from another lecture they both go to. "I think I have seen you (meaning my ESI friend)", he said. My ESI friend agreed to helping him out. During his talk with her - him sitting almost exactly beside me, her on my left side - he did not look into my eyes once. I felt like this was done on purpose, somehow. Also, I didn't believe it was pure coincidence he was asking my ESI friend for help. Maybe I am really just jumping to conclusions here, though I got the feeling he asked her specifically, because he had seen me hanging out with her regularly...

    Anyhow, this Monday I could not see him on my way to the train. I missed his presence somehow, or was just curious to see what he was about. It seemed like he had went on the train before mine, or the one thereafter. But my mind could not compute this; it believed he had to appear somehow. I think that was my Ni holding unto the observed pattern, haha. So, when I've almost forgotten about him, at a stop he walks past the door I am standing at, totally out of the blue, giving me a subtle half smile. Being surprised, I could only faintly smile back.

    After that, I could not help but giggle to myself. So cute when an Aggressor acts a bit Victim! (I have read once that some Aggressors use a Victim tactic, and I could see this applying mostly to the introverted Aggressors.) In that moment, he earned a couple of points in my mind, haha. This moment had satisfied my Victim doubts. He must have been on the same train without me seeing him in the crowd, perhaps observed me once again, and then walked past that door to smile at me... Even if the latter part is not true, my Ni was happy to see he did appear after all. That alone earned him several points, haha.

    Today after class, he walked sort of closely behind me and my friends with some friend(s) of his own. Either it was "coincidence", or deliberate observing once again...

    Side note: Because I see him wearing a ring on his left ring finger sometimes, I think he might be engaged or married to someone already, so I don't let myself think too much of it. Regardless, he must find me interesting or like me somewhat, even if just platonically. So, he may not "court" me in the traditional sense, but at least in a platonic one, haha.

    So yeah. I'll add more later, if there is going to happen more with him.
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    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...and go find a SLE instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...and go find a SLE instead.
    Are you talking to me? Haha.

    Even after having studied Socionics, I don't believe I can find happiness with an SLE only.
    LSI is still a good option for IEI.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 12-16-2015 at 07:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...and go find a SLE instead.
    Welcome back, bastard...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    Welcome back, bastard...
    Why hello there my lovely bad bitch. Missed me I see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Why hello there my lovely bad bitch. Missed me I see.
    Works both sides, my lovely. Cheers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...and go find a SLE instead.
    Exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    Works both sides, my lovely. Cheers.
    You really DID meessshhhh meeee??! oh joyyyyy.

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    Thanks for all the wonderful feedback!

    Although, I discovered that my suspected ISTj was actually an ESTp logical subtype, which originally appeared as an ISTj.

    That's why I accidentally forgot about this thread so I want to again thank everyone who responded, and I will most definitely use this advice if I ever choose to court an ISTj later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Are you talking to me? Haha.

    Even after having studied Socionics, I don't believe I can find happiness with an SLE only.
    LSI is still a good option for IEI.
    Theoretically should be a good option, I hear from IEI's that it doesn't work out in practice, tho'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    Thanks for all the wonderful feedback!

    Although, I discovered that my suspected ISTj was actually an ESTp logical subtype, which originally appeared as an ISTj.

    That's why I accidentally forgot about this thread so I want to again thank everyone who responded, and I will most definitely use this advice if I ever choose to court an ISTj later on.
    How did you decide on SLE-Ti > LSI for the type? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Theoretically should be a good option, I hear from IEI's that it doesn't work out in practice, tho'.
    What type(s) work(s) in practice, then? Not all IEI's are with their Dual (I'd say most aren't.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    What type(s) work(s) in practice, then? Not all IEI's are with their Dual (I'd say most aren't.)
    Don't know, it obviously depends on many things. Just noted this trend..
    Last edited by Myst; 12-22-2015 at 01:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...
    That's not type related.

    But yeah, that doesn't sound like fun, regardless of type.
    Last edited by Myst; 12-22-2015 at 01:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    How did you decide on SLE-Ti > LSI for the type? Just curious.
    She seeks out social and emotional environments, so Fe, but behaves like an introvert, so Fe inferior.
    The logical subtype of ESTp described her very well. I think most ESTps are stereotyped as the sensory subtype, which led me to never suspect her as an ESTp.

    The individual comes from a well and educated family, which I suspected instilled and promoted her Ti at a younger age. The reason why I mistaken her as an ISTj.

    Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.


    This also explained a lot of my confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    She seeks out social and emotional environments, so Fe, but behaves like an introvert, so Fe inferior.
    The logical subtype of ESTp described her very well. I think most ESTps are stereotyped as the sensory subtype, which led me to never suspect her as an ESTp.

    The individual comes from a well and educated family, which I suspected instilled and promoted her Ti at a younger age. The reason why I mistaken her as an ISTj.

    Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.


    This also explained a lot of my confusion.
    I see you also retyped yourself

    Some of the SLE-Ti stuff fits me too. SLE-Ti still has creative use of Ti however instead of creative Se, that's a way to differentiate it from LSI-Se. (If this is too abstract, let me know I'm happy to explain more.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I see you also retyped yourself

    Some of the SLE-Ti stuff fits me too. SLE-Ti still has creative use of Ti however instead of creative Se, that's a way to differentiate it from LSI-Se. (If this is too abstract, let me know I'm happy to explain more.)
    Thanks, I looked up creative Ti description, but not much information appeared. http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...on_elements/Ti

    Could you explain how creative Ti manifests in an individual compared to leading Ti?

    Yes, I did. ENFj never truly fit my type, but I believe I was biased prior in my earlier decision.

    I also met two individuals during the summer who I consistently enjoy interacting with, later learned that both are ESFp (subtype unknown). Semi-duality still is great, although have never experienced opposite gender duality yet. I believe I have met male ESTps during sports, but due to competition/testosterone, I think it does not pose an accurate representation of INFp & ESTp duality.

    I am definitely not INTp. I have a father who is a tested INTp (do not relate with). I believe my grandfather is a stereotypical ISTj (average relations), thus further persuades me that I am not an ENFj. My mother screams ISFp.

    I also tested as an INFJ in MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    Thanks, I looked up creative Ti description, but not much information appeared. http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...on_elements/Ti
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Ti has longer descriptions.


    Could you explain how creative Ti manifests in an individual compared to leading Ti?
    Creative Ti is more playful and situation dependent with Ti.

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    I checked this thread again for something and noticed this which makes more sense to me now than back then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bain View Post
    Realize that you're dealing with a dense emotional idiot with intimacy issues who needs everything spelled out for them or they throw a tantrum...and go find a SLE instead.
    That's where Duality with actual Fe base works for them. Mirage with an LIE like Bain is will mean the Ethics functions don't match up and furthermore, they can't help out each other's weak Ethics functions and the relationship will remain too cold, with some conflicts despite the initial strong attraction. This is exactly my experience too from the other side having been with an LIE-Ni before.

    Might be it works a bit better when the LIE is the female party and the LSI is the male one. I'm not sure on this one.

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