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Thread: Reinin dichotomies: Positivism and Negativism

  1. #161
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I have always leaned towards seeing myself as positivist; this has always been one hole in my self-typing as EIE. Grammatically I use lots of negatives like it describes but overall I relate more to the description of positivism.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  2. #162
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Positivist are less hyperconsiderate of all of the variances of their base. A negativist is.
    I'm confused as to what this means.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  3. #163
    Creepy-pikachu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm confused as to what this means.

    It is reference to the dominant function and how the information is judged/perceived via that lens. Its easiest to see in Fi to Fi, Ni to Ni, and so on (Te, Ti, Fe, Si, Ne, Se). Visualize acute and obtuse triangles, where point A references the judged perceiver, points B and C, and thus line Z, reference the breadth of information, and lines X and Y determine the relative or absolute distance of the information.

  4. #164
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    Good damn, I'm such an LSI positivist.

  5. #165
    Creepy-pikachu

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Good damn, I'm such an LSI positivist.
    Yeah, youre distrust of intentions of ppl towards you really shows



    Where did ISTj come from? The above is like their hallmark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Yeah, youre distrust of intentions of ppl towards you really shows



    Where did ISTj come from? The above is like their hallmark.
    Dumbasses gonna dumbass.

  7. #167
    Creepy-pikachu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm confused as to what this means.
    Oh, also in how hidden agenda operates. For example, Te in ESFp is more forceful, direct, linear, exacting, conclusive to a point, than Te in ENFp.

  8. #168
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    It is reference to the dominant function and how the information is judged/perceived via that lens. Its easiest to see in Fi to Fi, Ni to Ni, and so on (Te, Ti, Fe, Si, Ne, Se). Visualize acute and obtuse triangles, where point A references the judged perceiver, points B and C, and thus line Z, reference the breadth of information, and lines X and Y determine the relative or absolute distance of the information.
    So it's a reference to +/- being long range/short range. Got it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  9. #169
    Creepy-pikachu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    So it's a reference to +/- being long range/short range. Got it.
    Yes, but also how much is considered.

  10. #170
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Positivist are less hyperconsiderate of all of the variances of their base. A negativist is. In relation to consideration of informatics, a positivist behaves in an acute, long range manner, whereas a negativist behaves in an obtuse, short range manner.
    This is why @Agarina you're a negativist type as per what and how you deal with your living situation.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  11. #171
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    No type-consistent pattern in real people, in my case. Currently I don't acknowledge this dichotomy.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    Default Negativist/Positivist dichotomy

    @Eliza Thomason



    So I was helping my 9 year old SEI nephew with his math wordbproblems and we came to one that expressed this dichotomy well. The question was "Ted made 100 dog and cat treats. How many dog treats did he make?"

    My answer and first inclination was "well, it doesn't say what percentage of the 100 was for the dogs"

    He responded qwith "we don't know because it doesn't tell us how many of them were for the cats"

    You can tell a lot by how people approach problem solving.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  13. #173
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    @Eliza Thomason



    So I was helping my 9 year old SEI nephew with his math wordbproblems and we came to one that expressed this dichotomy well. The question was "Ted made 100 dog and cat treats. How many dog treats did he make?"

    My answer and first inclination was "well, it doesn't say what percentage of the 100 was for the dogs"

    He responded qwith "we don't know because it doesn't tell us how many of them were for the cats"

    You can tell a lot by how people approach problem solving.
    LOL, that was cute. And so nice you help your nephew with his homework. My SLI's 4 year old granddaugher is goign to be here every other Tuesday all day! I am so excited; I adore her. I am going to have an art class with her, and a memorization time (just really short line every hour or two and she'll have somethign entertaining to show off - and its good learning - and we'll cook for everyone, I am just so looking forward to it.

  14. #174
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    What is wrong with our education system.
    Common Core, for starters!

  15. #175
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    And if you say, "It doesn't tell you how many dog OR cat treats," what does that illustrate ... Or "It doesn't specify percentages."

    In-between? Oh, wait, then there's no dichotomy. That word problem brokeded the socionics.

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    Haikus Pink's Avatar
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    Ah, while reading this study:

    "The Reason Why Some People Focus On The Negative"
    http://www.trueactivist.com/the-reas...-the-negative/

    It raised off Socionic bells in my head.

    If we look at the physical world, we find that negativity is present — ordered things have shown the tendency to become disordered sooner or later, however natural. The same applies to human behavior, however genetic. A new study by a University of British Columbia researcher finds that some people are genetically predisposed to see the world darkly.

    It is interesting to see that the human mind which is considered to be the most ordered and conscious system in the world is not left untouched by the negative effects of the environment. Negativity is all-pervasive, it seems.

    The study, published in Psychological Science, finds that a previously known gene variant can cause individuals to perceive emotional events–especially negative ones — more vividly than others.
    The ability to regulate emotions is essential to both mental and physical well-being. Conversely, difficulties with emotion regulation have been postulated as a core mechanism underlying mood and anxiety disorders.

    The ability to identify and distinguish between negative emotions helps us address the problem that led to those emotions in the first place. But while some people can tell the difference between feeling angry and guilty, others may not be able to separate the two. Distinguishing between anger and frustration is even harder. Emotions can also become problematic — for example, for people with depression who can’t stop thinking about negative thoughts.

    “This is the first study to find that this genetic variation can significantly affect how people see and experience the world,” says Prof. Rebecca Todd of UBC’s Dept. of Psychology. “The findings suggest people experience emotional aspects of the world partly through gene-coloured glasses — and that biological variations at the genetic level can play a significant role in individual differences in perception.”

    The gene in question is the ADRA2b deletion variant, which influences the hormone and neurotransmitter norepinephrine. Previously found to play a role in the formation of emotional memories, the new study shows that the ADRA2b deletion variant also plays a role in real-time perception.

    The study’s 200 participants were shown positive, negative and neutral words in a rapid succession. Participants with the ADRA2b gene variant were more likely to perceive negative words than others, while both groups perceived positive words better than neutral words to an equal degree.

    “These individuals may be more likely to pick out angry faces in a crowd of people,” says Todd. “Outdoors, they might notice potential hazards — places you could slip, loose rocks that might fall — instead of seeing the natural beauty.”

    The findings shed new light on ways in which genetics — combined with other factors such as education, culture, and moods — can affect individual differences in emotional perception and human subjectivity, the researchers say.

    Further research is planned to explore this phenomenon across ethnic groups. While more than half of Caucasians are believed to have the ADRA2b gene variant, statistics suggest it is significantly less prevalent in other ethnicities. For example, a recent study found that only 10 per cent of Rwandans had the ADRA2b gene variant.


    Read More: http://www.trueactivist.com/the-reas...-the-negative/

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    I think pessimism and optimism aren't the same as negativism and positivism. A very good example would be an LSI who is a positivist but a pessimist due to his PoLR Ne. He thinks about the worth possible thing and tries to prepare for that 100%. He might think of the worst case scenario when his daughter is out late at night thinking "she has been robbed, has had an accident, is doing drugs??", that is pessimism, it is related to the future. But he is also a positivist, he says things like "The weather is very nice today" or "This restaurant's food tastes very good" whereas his look-alike ESI who also has PoLR Ne but is a negativist, usually complains about the weather, the restaurant and the quality of the food because "it could have been better" and etc...

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm confused as to what this means.
    It could mean that a negativist who is never satisfied with things or themselves looks for more possibilities and areas in which he can grow. But I as a Te dominant can not imagine anyone doing this more than I do. I always see how things can be done better, easier, etc.

  19. #179
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    How can i be anything but negativist....

    well its confusing cus usually im in poor mood but in positive spirit while seeing what is lacking in everyone and everything


    edit: might be my strongest dichotomy too ;p Introversion and nrgativism = INTx and ISFx
    Last edited by chrys; 08-23-2016 at 06:11 PM.


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