I'm Se PoLR type 9 and I hate the thought of being weak

[Beautiful sky]

Se polr does not make someone weak. And I concur with Golden's observations about the stubborness of LIIs and EIIs. Weakness is a character flaw imo that ANY type can have, and I've seen some damn weak SLEs. Physicality alone is not strength, nor is forcefulness or aggression. Strength can come in many forms, and sometimes the most strength is shown in a person's ability to show humility or kindness. Especially at times when those things are very difficult for most to muster up.

my own duals are extremely aggressive. What I refer to se is certain kind of information that I just don't like. Like talking about one's own worthwhile or physical stuff is a waste of time and energy being asked to be more assertive in times that I am emotional is not funny to me. Paranoid tendency of sle and suspicious nature bothers me a lot. For instance one sle told me that I showed interest in him and told him that I was longing for him...something like this when I hadn't exchanged but a few words of hello.

[Minde]

Do any other Se PoLRs relate? Do you have trouble coming to terms with your PoLR, fully 'accepting' it?

I hate to think of myself as 'weak' or passive. I feel like even though deep down there is some truth to it, I still cannot fully embrace it or come to terms with it. It could also be some enneagram type 9 stuff too. I'm about 80% confident of being type 9 now but it took me a long time to come to terms with accepting it as my base type. I just felt better about being a type 5 with a 9 fix but maybe I was just making an 'excuse.'

It's just that passivity really sucks as a personality trait. Passive people typically go underappreciated and get the short end of the stick. They don't stand out much, they don't seem very interesting. It's almost like in a way they aren't living their lives to the fullest because what they do is dictated by others too much. Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

On the socionics Facebook group I was debating with some others about what Se PoLR is or isn't. I said Se PoLR isn't necessarily about being weak but hardly anyone sided with me on that. Someone said she personally saw Se PoLRs as rather weak and even though it was a subjective opinion I couldn't help but get offended. So that in itself makes myself 'weak', the fact that I care so much about someone's opinion.

Basically my argument is that Se PoLR can be very stubborn and strong minded in the right circumstances. LII will stand up to things that violate their principles or sense of justice. EII will stand up to things that they see as morally wrong. So I think in that sense they are strong- standing up for things that other types overlook or don't care enough to bother with. (This kind of gets into another topic, perhaps people tend to 'stand up' for the things pertaining to their base function because after all it is their 'foundation.')

I think the problem is when you have to use 'forceful' means to get your point across- make others do things, get them to do your bidding. Or in situations when others are putting alot of pressure on you, Se PoLRs are not going to be at their best. But I think in a situation where neither of these apply, the Se PoLR can be quite strong and resilient.

Of course people did not agree with that and it made me wonder if I'm just doing some wishful thinking, wanting to make my PoLR look better than it actually is. I just cannot fully come to terms with being a weak-willed wimp and I want to feel like there is some hope or some cases that are the exception. I want to be that exception. I want to beat the odds.

I, too, am Se-PoLR E9 (9w1). And I, too, find it grating to feel weak. Though I know in many ways I am. So sometimes I have this internal confusion. However, I remind myself that weak doesn't mean powerless, but more that there's room for growth and strength training. Also, that there's value in having good relationships with people who are stronger in my areas of weakness and who value my own strengths.

I grew up as an eldest of four, and my initiative, internal will, and self-motivation had lots of encouragement. Yet, in social settings I still was usually very passive. It wasn't until my late 20s that I made a conscious shift in how I related to groups of people that I considered peers or even superiors. I decided I wanted a certain something, so I threw fear to the wind and proposed an idea to a group of people. Lo and behold, they thought it was a good idea and I because I'm both likable and responsible I became their leader. So here are a bunch of people now who apparently think I'm strong and capable enough to trust and follow.

On the topic of leadership and Se, any time I start trying to be forceful it doesn't go well. I can't make people do things, and when I try I end up making a mess. Unless they're socionically friendly, in which case I think they cut me some slack. (My ENFp sister is super good at handling my "control tantrums.") As far as I can tell, people follow me because I make sense and am suggesting things that they want. And I'm willing to coordinate and foster communication. And make decisions when no one else does, though that is a lot harder.

Anyway, I think having these experiences of "Oh, hey, look, I'm capable in an area where I thought I was really weak and still kind of am" has helped calm that inner consternation a little. (At the very least, I've had way less running-away-from-hunters dreams.)

As I try to advance my career though, I'm kind of worried that my gentle demeanor will hinder my efforts at gaining respect and being seen as valuable in a monetary sense. I'm not sure yet how to deal with this and make myself "better."

(My ideal goal with my career is to hone both my actual and perceived value so that I can work part time and live with enough margin in my life to have a relaxed pace, be comfortable, healthy, and not have to worry about rushing around all the time. I like simplicity and peace. With the occasional jaunt to see new, beautiful places. And learn; I love doing that. I want to be healthy - physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and in any other sense there is. I can't do that if I'm stressed.)

From what I've heard, I come across as looking frail and physically weak. And while I try very hard to be healthy (eat well, exercise, sleep, etc.), I kind of still am not very strong... My ESE friend has this theme of wanting to put me in a protective bubble so I never get hurt. Occasionally people who have "stronger" Se who are Si-valuing will make laugh with each other about how helpless I seem sometimes. Apparently sometimes I exude a sense of needing to be taken care of. I start feeling very conflicted when that happens, and annoyed with both them and myself. Them for noticing and laughing and myself for being weak.

In terms of standing up for things... I've surprised a number of people by locking onto a principle or a situation that I feel goes against what is fair or good or right. Or clinging to something I want. I'll even stand up for people I don't like if I think they aren't being treated fairly or if there's damaging misinformation getting spread about them.

Finally, on the subject of creating art, I like to draw and paint, but my current favorite is digital painting where I can use technology to help me with getting the look "right" (correct proportions, etc.) and focus on what I'm feeling. Also, I think a lot of getting details and structure "right" is a matter of skill, which can be trained and honed with enough effort, practice, and a good teaching source. So then it's less uncomfortable.



Wow, I just wrote a novella. This hit a nerve.

[Galen]

Maybe This Is An Indicaton That Se Has Nothing To Do With Being Strong And Tough

[Olimpia]

Everyone will feel weak when it comes to their PoLR. That is really the nature of it.
Again, it makes little sense to focus too much on that. Because everyone has got their PoLR weakness.

[The Exception]

i tend towards being quite passive, quite often, and i'm ambivalent about whether or not this bothers me. i suppose part of it is that i don't feel entirely passive - i have an assertive side, and also an aggressive one. being passive seems to be my default, and i can struggle with being assertive, but i guess i see this as something to get better at. also, although type-related somewhat, it's fairly obvious that anyone can learn how to assert themselves (there are plenty of assertive and decisive XIIs). you don't need to become a more assertive person.

i often feel stressed out around certain polrs because of how helpless they act. i avoid helpless people as much as i can, except for at work, where they are everywhere and i can't get away. the combination of flailing about helplessly and going on and on about all the possibilities, can really get on my nerves; as well as not actually directly stating what one wants or expects. really it's that they're trying to wring assistance out of others, and maybe i just don't like .

I can be assertive too and am capable of standing up myself. There are plenty of situations where I had stood up for myself- most of them revolve around issues surrounding justice or how I or other people should be treated. Ti and Fi type things. Its just that when I am assertive, I get the impression that I'm not being taken seriously enough. It could be because my style is more like "you shouldn't do X because...." or "that hurt me, please don't do that anymore" instead of more forceful aggressive ways like "STOP THAT THIS INSTANCE" or "F**K OFF!!" I suppose I could even do the more aggressive thing too but it's a last resort for me when other methods have failed or if someone was literally trying to rape me or something serious like that.

It's interesting you say that you find certain Se PoLRs to act helpless. How do you perceive them as helpless?

I don't like helpless people much either. I prefer people who at least try to help themselves although I have no problems with people who admit weakness and difficulty with certain things. But to just insist that everybody just do it for you, I don't like. I'd rather teach them how to help themselves to guide them along.

But to be fair, there are some areas in life I'm kind 'helpless' and pathetic at. Se type things would be an example. I wouldn't mind if I someone just did it for me so I wouldn't have to bother with it. But seriously, I can't always guarantee that someone is always going to be able to take over Se for me. Also, Se will never completely go away so I do need some level of coping skills in this area even if I'm never going to value it or master it.

I suppose people are more 'helpless' regarding their 1-D functions?

[The Exception]

I, too, am Se-PoLR E9 (9w1). And I, too, find it grating to feel weak. Though I know in many ways I am. So sometimes I have this internal confusion. However, I remind myself that weak doesn't mean powerless, but more that there's room for growth and strength training. Also, that there's value in having good relationships with people who are stronger in my areas of weakness and who value my own strengths.

I grew up as an eldest of four, and my initiative, internal will, and self-motivation had lots of encouragement. Yet, in social settings I still was usually very passive. It wasn't until my late 20s that I made a conscious shift in how I related to groups of people that I considered peers or even superiors. I decided I wanted a certain something, so I threw fear to the wind and proposed an idea to a group of people. Lo and behold, they thought it was a good idea and I because I'm both likable and responsible I became their leader. So here are a bunch of people now who apparently think I'm strong and capable enough to trust and follow.

On the topic of leadership and Se, any time I start trying to be forceful it doesn't go well. I can't make people do things, and when I try I end up making a mess. Unless they're socionically friendly, in which case I think they cut me some slack. (My ENFp sister is super good at handling my "control tantrums.") As far as I can tell, people follow me because I make sense and am suggesting things that they want. And I'm willing to coordinate and foster communication. And make decisions when no one else does, though that is a lot harder.

Anyway, I think having these experiences of "Oh, hey, look, I'm capable in an area where I thought I was really weak and still kind of am" has helped calm that inner consternation a little. (At the very least, I've had way less running-away-from-hunters dreams.)

As I try to advance my career though, I'm kind of worried that my gentle demeanor will hinder my efforts at gaining respect and being seen as valuable in a monetary sense. I'm not sure yet how to deal with this and make myself "better."

(My ideal goal with my career is to hone both my actual and perceived value so that I can work part time and live with enough margin in my life to have a relaxed pace, be comfortable, healthy, and not have to worry about rushing around all the time. I like simplicity and peace. With the occasional jaunt to see new, beautiful places. And learn; I love doing that. I want to be healthy - physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and in any other sense there is. I can't do that if I'm stressed.)

From what I've heard, I come across as looking frail and physically weak. And while I try very hard to be healthy (eat well, exercise, sleep, etc.), I kind of still am not very strong... My ESE friend has this theme of wanting to put me in a protective bubble so I never get hurt. Occasionally people who have "stronger" Se who are Si-valuing will make laugh with each other about how helpless I seem sometimes. Apparently sometimes I exude a sense of needing to be taken care of. I start feeling very conflicted when that happens, and annoyed with both them and myself. Them for noticing and laughing and myself for being weak.

In terms of standing up for things... I've surprised a number of people by locking onto a principle or a situation that I feel goes against what is fair or good or right. Or clinging to something I want. I'll even stand up for people I don't like if I think they aren't being treated fairly or if there's damaging misinformation getting spread about them.

Finally, on the subject of creating art, I like to draw and paint, but my current favorite is digital painting where I can use technology to help me with getting the look "right" (correct proportions, etc.) and focus on what I'm feeling. Also, I think a lot of getting details and structure "right" is a matter of skill, which can be trained and honed with enough effort, practice, and a good teaching source. So then it's less uncomfortable.



Wow, I just wrote a novella. This hit a nerve.

According to my parents and teachers I was very stubborn and strong-willed as a child, I wanted to do things my way. My superiors did not know what to make of that and I felt like my efforts to take initiative were discouraged and squashed. So not only did I tone things down but I kind of just retreated inwardly with a constant sense of uncertainty and doubt about my own self-worth and value. I hated having the anxiety of never knowing for sure if my ideas were going to be embraced or shot down. So much of the time I just didn't share my ideas with people. I'm gradually getting more and courageous about expressing my own ideas at work and other places and risking possible rejection of them.

I often feel like an underachiever in my career. I don't have problems finding minor part-time gigs but anything substantial like full-time with all of the benefits, people don't want to take a chance on me. I hate the dog-eat-dog world that job searching has become. I feel like with job interviews, we can't show weakness, we must be fully confident and capable to do anything that comes our way. It's dishonest and if there is one strength I do have it's self-honesty and humility. I'm not going to claim skills or credentials that I don't have.

Like you, more than anything, I just want a career where I feel a sense of self worth and personal fulfillment. I don't need a whole lot of money but I want to make sure I have enough to live a comfortable lifestyle and a little extra to travel to beautiful places.

I'm not sure how 'frail' I appear on a physical level. I don't think I'm necessarily 'frail' in that sense but I think I do give the impression to others that I don't know what I'm doing or that I'm oblivious to the world around me so I need taken care of in that sense. And there is some truth to my obliviousness of my surroundings.

And regarding art, while I can't draw or paint from scratch using pencils, paintbrushes, etc. I can create things via computers and I do like photography. I've been told I have a good sense of 'composition.'

[shakealittle]

I see weak Se as having difficulty gauging impact rather than being weak.

[Beautiful sky]

I see weak Se as having difficulty gauging impact rather than being weak.

That comes from not being able to process static element or facial expressions and tones of the object. Se ignoring too can seem like se polr because they superficial look and act like se polr.

[nondescript]

Maybe This Is An Indicaton That Se Has Nothing To Do With Being Strong And Tough

Because, gee get this, it doesn't. Power orientation CAN occur as a consequence, but it doesn't have to. It's nothing more than that.

[nondescript]

According to my parents and teachers I was very stubborn and strong-willed as a child, I wanted to do things my way. My superiors did not know what to make of that and I felt like my efforts to take initiative were discouraged and squashed. So not only did I tone things down but I kind of just retreated inwardly with a constant sense of uncertainty and doubt about my own self-worth and value. I hated having the anxiety of never knowing for sure if my ideas were going to be embraced or shot down. So much of the time I just didn't share my ideas with people. I'm gradually getting more and courageous about expressing my own ideas at work and other places and risking possible rejection of them.

I often feel like an underachiever in my career. I don't have problems finding minor part-time gigs but anything substantial like full-time with all of the benefits, people don't want to take a chance on me. I hate the dog-eat-dog world that job searching has become. I feel like with job interviews, we can't show weakness, we must be fully confident and capable to do anything that comes our way. It's dishonest and if there is one strength I do have it's self-honesty and humility. I'm not going to claim skills or credentials that I don't have.

Like you, more than anything, I just want a career where I feel a sense of self worth and personal fulfillment. I don't need a whole lot of money but I want to make sure I have enough to live a comfortable lifestyle and a little extra to travel to beautiful places.

I'm not sure how 'frail' I appear on a physical level. I don't think I'm necessarily 'frail' in that sense but I think I do give the impression to others that I don't know what I'm doing or that I'm oblivious to the world around me so I need taken care of in that sense. And there is some truth to my obliviousness of my surroundings.

And regarding art, while I can't draw or paint from scratch using pencils, paintbrushes, etc. I can create things via computers and I do like photography. I've been told I have a good sense of 'composition.'

Yeah, you're Se polr alright