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Thread: What's my type? 80Q

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    You didn't exactly want to have sex with him did you.
    I think you missed the point. I don't like to be taken by the hand, period.

    I also don't like the blatant contradictions...

    Quote Originally Posted by silke
    (NTJs)These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life.
    Quote Originally Posted by glam
    In the dual couple SEE-ILI initiative usually belongs to the first, who rule their partner using their sensory function. The ILI would submit when simply taken and lead by the hand. One ILI would say; “If one takes my hands and leads me, I would follow at once and wouldn’t resist, but would submit to the partner’s control”.
    Although I am willing to bet the second one is wrong; I reckon it's by a female "victim" who can't separate female submissiveness from her romantic style. I've already highlighted what I am like with partners so if you think the second article is right then we can rule out Gamma NTs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    1) first part can pass for Fe role but the last part is more ILI
    2) ILI > LIE
    The rest of your points could be either.

    ILI > LIE
    Yeah, I don't think I am ILI. I am entertaining LIE because 4D Te/Ne makes sense for me since they are two functions I identify with and score the highest in tests. I am going to consider ILE since I formed a close friendship very quickly with an SEI from half-way across the world and he actually described me as being somewhat "child-like", plus I don't think I have a conflicting relationship with ESEs anyway.

    By the way, how accurate are the descriptions found here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I think you missed the point. I don't like to be taken by the hand, period.
    OK then that part doesn't fit you. Doesn't have to.


    Although I am willing to bet the second one is wrong; I reckon it's by a female "victim" who can't separate female submissiveness from her romantic style.
    Yeah, it seems a bit too specific. I do think gender plays a role.


    Yeah, I don't think I am ILI. I am entertaining LIE because 4D Te/Ne makes sense for me since they are two functions I identify with and score the highest in tests. I am going to consider ILE since I formed a close friendship very quickly with an SEI from half-way across the world and he actually described me as being somewhat "child-like", plus I don't think I have a conflicting relationship with ESEs anyway.
    Te/Ne, why 4D, beyond having high test scores, just because that's not going to prove dimensionality. That's not how it's defined.

    The rest of the stuff is ambiguous data/loose correlations. E.g. SEI or ESI. Who knows. Childlike is a generic word as stated, etc.


    By the way, how accurate are the descriptions found here?
    It's not bad, I don't know how often the physical features part works out, it's logical to me tho' that it's not going to fit every LIE. The clothing part is often true for them as written but again, obviously not always. The humour part works out, the double entendres stuff is very typical of LIE I think. (Other types do it too but the way LIE does it seems different )

    What's truly relevant from that description is this great summary on their style of thinking:

    "They are very open to new proposals, however they always investigate the practicality of any theory. They quickly realise the potential of new ideas, and are often the first people to apply them practically. They are open to all novelties and always try to use them in their own activities."

    ILI on the other hand is much more skeptical and will more likely turn down opportunities missing some that could've worked out to be real good as they see more easily the possible problems with the proposal without brainstorming beyond that negative prediction.

    "ENTjs are very enthusiastic when starting new projects sometimes becoming so passionate that they can forget about everything else. They normally start small, gradually working their way up to bigger things. They can work very hard and extremely quickly, often working on many tasks simultaneously. ENTjs like to figure out and try many things. They are not the sort of people who blindly believe in phenomena that cannot be proved, for example UFOs, telekinesis and ESP. They are often very curious and dynamic people often experiencing a great variety of occupations during their lifetimes. They are always experimenting and sometimes get involved in projects that others started but couldn't finish."

    This is also good to show the experimental V-S thinking* of LIEs. And yes, they are very much multitaskers. They are going to be a lot more skeptical than ILI about unprovable mystical stuff, yup.

    *: See Gulenko cognitive styles for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK then that part doesn't fit you. Doesn't have to.
    It adds to the list of victim traits that I don't relate to. Also, girls have tried to grab me by the arm/hand before and I don't recall a single time I didn't react by ripping my arm away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yeah, it seems a bit too specific. I do think gender plays a role.
    I reckon gender plays a big role in the misconceptions but not in the actual romantic style. I've noticed the dominant victim/submissive aggressor description from the first link does actually seem about right when it comes to my ISFj friend and ESFp brother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Te/Ne, why 4D, beyond having high test scores, just because that's not going to prove dimensionality. That's not how it's defined.
    Because I relate to higher dimensions of Te/Ne but I don't relate to higher dimensions of Ni, in fact I relate to ESp 1D Ni as I pointed out before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    The rest of the stuff is ambiguous data/loose correlations. E.g. SEI or ESI. Who knows. Childlike is a generic word as stated, etc.
    Pretty sure he is SEI but sure, you can't know that for certain since you haven't interacted with him.

    I'm actually pretty good at typing others, I'm just terrible at typing myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    It's not bad, I don't know how often the physical features part works out, it's logical to me tho' that it's not going to fit every LIE. The clothing part is often true for them as written but again, obviously not always. The humour part works out, the double entendres stuff is very typical of LIE I think. (Other types do it too but the way LIE does it seems different )

    What's truly relevant from that description is this great summary on their style of thinking:

    "They are very open to new proposals, however they always investigate the practicality of any theory. They quickly realise the potential of new ideas, and are often the first people to apply them practically. They are open to all novelties and always try to use them in their own activities."

    ILI on the other hand is much more skeptical and will more likely turn down opportunities missing some that could've worked out to be real good as they see more easily the possible problems with the proposal without brainstorming beyond that negative prediction.

    "ENTjs are very enthusiastic when starting new projects sometimes becoming so passionate that they can forget about everything else. They normally start small, gradually working their way up to bigger things. They can work very hard and extremely quickly, often working on many tasks simultaneously. ENTjs like to figure out and try many things. They are not the sort of people who blindly believe in phenomena that cannot be proved, for example UFOs, telekinesis and ESP. They are often very curious and dynamic people often experiencing a great variety of occupations during their lifetimes. They are always experimenting and sometimes get involved in projects that others started but couldn't finish."

    This is also good to show the experimental V-S thinking* of LIEs. And yes, they are very much multitaskers. They are going to be a lot more skeptical than ILI about unprovable mystical stuff, yup.

    *: See Gulenko cognitive styles for that
    Yeah, you are saying I'm ILI even though most of the information you post implies LIE. Another poster actually said my Se seemed too strong for an ILI and it's starting to become evident. I think you may have missed this post but I explained my way of thinking (which matches the above) and actually mentioned my sensitivity to sentences that can be interpreted in more than one way.

    Btw, the ILI description on that site doesn't sound like me but the ENTx ones do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I reckon gender plays a big role in the misconceptions but not in the actual romantic style
    Yeah.


    Because I relate to higher dimensions of Te/Ne but I don't relate to higher dimensions of Ni, in fact I relate to ESp 1D Ni as I pointed out before.
    You mean you superficially relate to a description. That's not how you determine dimensionality.


    Yeah, you are saying I'm ILI even though most of the information you post implies LIE.
    Whatever you posted before implied ILI > LIE overall. But they were mostly ambiguous points.


    the Gamma one would explain my lack of tolerance when it comes to impractical speculation and ideas. For example, a friend of mine and I were into card games and he would create innovative decks with spectacular combos that no one had thought of but with little competitive feasibility, while I prefered to build innovative decks with a unique combination of cards that no one had thought of that were competitive and capable of winning tournaments but not as spectacular as his. We also struggled to communicate over the internet because every sentance he put together could be interpreted in more than one way while mine, on the other hand, are all straight-forward.
    That one can be LIE > ILI though mostly it's just contrasting gamma NT with alpha NT in the context.


    Btw, the ILI description on that site doesn't sound like me but the ENTx ones do.
    So then you are more open to novelty than ILI overall because you don't primarily focus on how it's not going to work out? That would indicate LIE with higher dimensional Ne than Ni, indeed.
    Last edited by Myst; 12-22-2015 at 03:37 PM.

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    I looked at your questionnaire again:

    Where you say things like:

    "I forecast everything I'm interested in from social interactions to where the sports team I support will finish.
    I'm normally the one telling my friends how something will end before they do it."


    Can you describe an example of creating such a forecast? I'd analyze it to see if it's Te>Ni or Ni>Te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I looked at your questionnaire again:

    Where you say things like:

    "I forecast everything I'm interested in from social interactions to where the sports team I support will finish.
    I'm normally the one telling my friends how something will end before they do it."


    Can you describe an example of creating such a forecast? I'd analyze it to see if it's Te>Ni or Ni>Te.
    In terms of social interactions, I can be quite pessimistic, possibly because of being bullied in the past but also because I mind my own business when I'm out which seems to be an invitation to some people to bother me. I often times avoid entering situations I know can easily become uncomfortable. For example, if I go to a food court and my normal area has quite a few people around it (especially girls), then I probably won't sit there because 9/10 I will mind my own business and one of them will get annoyed that I appear to be ignoring them and will do something awkward, talk about me or just outright badmouth me because I actually mind my own business and don't stare at people (anymore). I'm also not bad at spotting the social dynamic between people, who is attracted to who and how that could develop.

    For sports, I can be quite optimistic but with a lot of realism. For example, I support a football team which had to play all the other teams "better" than us away from home in the first half of the season, and it's often times easier to play at home than away. Most other fans said this was a terrible thing while I thought it was quite good for a number of reasons

    - If most teams get an average of x points to finish y place, then my team can get lower than that since we'll have an easier time collecting points during the second half of the season.
    - The above also helps mask our position in the league table and make other teams underestimate us.
    - The start of the season is when the biggest upsets normally occur, so getting an upset against a bigger team away from home is more likely.

    Also, I play a fantasy football league online and I forecast by looking at upcoming fixtures, recent results and player form. I also look at the teams of other people in my league to see what I'm up against and whether I can close/increase gaps between myself and them.

    When it comes to my brother/friends, they often don't ask for my input but just say what they plan to do and wait for me to approve or disapprove it. For my ESFp brother, he often tells me what he wants and waits for me to tell him what to do in order to get it, or sometimes relies on me to tell him what's coming up next on his current trajectory. For my friends, again, they often tell me what they want e.g. "Let's go out sometime" but expect me to come up with a plan for it.

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    @Resonare

    Confirm (or correct) this one please - So then you are more open to novelty than ILI overall because you don't primarily focus on how it's not going to work out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    @Resonare

    Confirm (or correct) this one please - So then you are more open to novelty than ILI overall because you don't primarily focus on how it's not going to work out?
    I'd say so, yes. I mean, if it's clearly not going to work or there's a big chance of it not then I may not be open to it, but if I don't (initially) see how it wouldn't work then I'd be all for it.

    At my best I am like this, at my worst I probably would start using unlikely negative possibilities as an excuse to not embrace it.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Hum when did you start playing Fantasy football?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    You don't sound ILI you sound SEE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Hum when did you start playing Fantasy football?
    When I joined my new work place at the start of June this year.

    Btw, you may be misinterpreting what it is. Each person (manager) selects a team of 15 players to begin with (2 goalkeepers, 5 defenders, 5 midfielders and 3 strikers) and chooses 11 of those players each week (at least 1 goalkeeper, 1 striker etc) to get points from based on their in real life performance that week. Each manager is allowed 1 free transfer that week in order to remove and add a new player, which can rollover if not used, but will lose 4 points for each additional transfer. Each manager also selects a captain who scored double that week, and a vice-captain if the captain isn't playing.

    There are other tactics that can be used but that is the general gist of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    You don't sound ILI you sound SEE
    From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-(Filatova)

    Se – Program function. A strong individual. Irrepressibly he approaches his goals and, at any costs, tries to reach them. “Only success, only victory!”
    That is my mentality most of the time. I used to play a real-time strategy, fantasy, action game which was 50 vs 50 and my attitude towards that was certainly this. I remember when I took control of a battle, everyone did as I said and we completely crushed the other team. Have course, I used to write strategy guides on the forum so perhaps people listened because of that and not so much because of my energy.


    SEE – always the leader, ambitious and confident.
    I've always been pretty confident despite my abnormalities and being depressed, but I'm not ambitious and I'm only good at leading people after having taken a step back to look at the situation, not full on in the moment.

    Naturally proves to be the center of attention in any group. The desire, without fail, to lead, to control; leads to rivalries, competition with other aspirants. However, SEE deftly senses the nuances in his relations, wonderfully senses the moods of others towards him. If someone, whom he must deal with, is capable of holding him at a distance, of resisting him, SEE will not bother with him, but if, and when, he feels slack he can press and become unceremonious. Will not seek conflict without reason. Can act diplomatic and insinuating in order to achieve objectives. But if conflict arises he can express himself directly, unambiguously.
    Generally true, except I've run out of patience and prefer to be direct than diplomatic now.


    Always, and in everything, SEE tries to display his advantages to others. Should he suffer injustice he will find a way to turn it around, presenting himself to others so as not to lose face, even conversely to appear the victor. He never acknowledges his injuries.
    Now this is tricky because I am like this and also not. I am aware that I have this way of coming across as rather arrogant which may be me subconsciously displaying my advantages to others, though my friend (SLE-Ti) said it was because I used to think that I could do anything I put my mind to which is another reason why I don't think I am truly a negativist. Never acknowledging my injuries is very true. I initially never acknowledged that there was anything different about me until so many issues came up that I became unable to ignore them.


    SEE tends not to get lost in the difficult situation; in such cases he rather reacts with more strength, mobilizing to surmount the difficulty.
    I wouldn't get lost but my approach wouldn't be to simply mobilize myself and use strength to power through. I would tackle the problem by analyzing it and coming up with a general plan to counter it.


    Energetic and noisy, he creates the impression that he is occupying as much space as possible.
    Nope, but I guess I could be the Fi-subtype? My brother is and he isn't energetic or noisy but does often take up a lot of space.


    SEE noticeably develops the shadow function of the extroverted sense of sensations (Se), especially when viewed from the exterior. SEE loves bright, garish clothing; he prefers to appear from “better to extravagant” rather than “everyday and gray”. It pleases him to be noticed, to garner the attention of others.
    Not me at all. I wouldn't mind bright clothing on others but I tend to dress in dark colors that won't make me stand out but often do for some reason. I guess everyone would like to be noticed from time to time, but I've never particularly liked it in general and became very against it after being bullied.

    Fi – Creative function. SEE magnificently manipulates people by their moods and desires. He loves to be the center of attention, to fascinate others with his ideas. He easily provokes quarrels but just as easily reconciles them, as if playing; pulling the strings. It is important for him to preserve the good opinion of other towards him, not to let himself fall, to stress his talent and exclusiveness. He’s a great actor and can manifest outstanding diplomatic inclinations, well cultured.

    Sensing well the moods of others, SEE can support a comrade through a difficult moment; manifest his participation, his sympathy. By being naturally volitional and cheerful he impels other to act, not to fall apart or whine. (I can do this for others but struggle to cheer myself up)


    The SEE – men with bright and intense emotional range – from angry indignation to noisy enthusiasm. He thus always finds himself included in the emotional situation, he is ready to act: to help, to sympathize, to fight, to condemn, - and no matter how he expresses his relation to that occurring he is always absolutely confident in the correctness of his sentence.


    With the opposite sex he readily displays initiative. Though to suffer rejection may be tragic he knows to move on. (50-50)


    Strong excitability and emotionalism give rise to increased sexuality. Especially in the younger years it is difficult to settle down.


    SEE is prone to jealousy, may frequently suspect partner of treason, and does not pardon innocent flirtation.


    Bright emotionalism also develops in the love of arts; SEE especially loves music and singing. Frequently he has some of his own music, demonstrates to all his talent and ability.

    Ti – Vulnerable function. The weakness of this function is developed in the fact that activities for the SEE frequently carry a chaotic nature; in his behaviour there is no systematic pattern of character.


    Even if SEE possesses a heavy stock of knowledge, he is not always able to sufficiently make use of it; his emotionalism frequently re-weighs logic. His erudition manifests itself in sudden flashes but he never keeps on one topic for long. An extroverted sensory type, his need for external activity frequently manifests itself in uncontrollable motor activity. Thus he may be prone to acting before thinking.(Prone to act without thinking in day to day tasks, not larger tasks)


    Understanding that logic is not his strongest quality, SEE compensates for this in his business activities by placing a greater role in his personal contacts and connections. He attempts to work out the definite stereotypes of behaviour in different situations so as to not be caught unprepared.


    For SEE it is very important that the result of his work be visible and tangible. He wishes to obtain a return for his efforts. This may be exemplified through community acknowledgement (i.e. social status) and/or material evidence of acknowledgment (i.e. apartment, car, the latest gadget, the most up-to-date, most elegant, prestigious fashions…)


    Ne – Role function. Since the SEE focuses all his attention on the sensory area, he does well in interpreting the external manifestations of people, events and things, but cannot understand their secret meaning. (I always look for the secret meaning but I can be left unsure of it). He senses well, but badly comprehends in-depth. For this reason he finds it difficult to correctly evaluate others, his surroundings, and even himself; finds it difficult to find his true place in life. Nevertheless SEE will try to develop the role of a sensitive and attentive man, capable of correctly comprehending the current situation.


    He also finds it difficult, in view of the weakness of the intuition of time, to precisely plan activities beforehand. In such regards he’s apt to become impatient, finds it difficult to wait for something if he feels he needs it now.

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    @Maritsa I don't think I am SEE but ESI is possible.

    Introverted Ethics (Fi, )

    ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others. They may commonly be introspective and constantly in a state of trying to sort out the way they really feel. ESIs value their own sense of fidelity and life stability, and they may always try to treat others with fairness and decency. However, they often tend to be highly reliant on their attitudes towards others in directing their path through life, which can sometimes lead them down circuitous and complicated pathways and interfere with their moral rectitude.For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things. ESIs' attitudes towards others are commonly characterized by skepticism and distrust, and their overall demeanor may be private, closed, uncommunicative, and individualistic. They may feel as though they can see into the motivations and character of others, and sometimes are instinctively be quick to judge others harshly. Similarly, they may also have difficulty forgiving others and often react coldly to those with past transgressions, or who they see as immoral or characterologically reprehensible. They may by nature adopt a standoffish, confrontational attitude in lieu of a conciliatory one, which may in fact only serve to aggravate their emotional conflagrations. At the same time, however, they may see their judgmentalism as hypocritical and strive to treat others with reciprocity and fairness rather than preemptive judgments. In this way, their behavior can be an internal conflict, oscillating between the predominance of a curtain of friendliness and a core of distrust. Most commonly, ESIs hold an air of both amicable receptiveness, but also one of penetralia and unapproachability. Many ESIs are inclined to see themselves as morally immaculate, and to behave as such whenever they can. They may pride themselves on their emotional sincerity, and when dealing with individuals they respect, they typically try to work out clashes through honest and forthright discussion. However, their sense of principled candor is sometimes marred by the conflicting emotions they experience. ESIs can also be rather traditional and conservative in their life outlook. They may tend to see others who interfere with the stability of their lifestyle as untrustworthy and flighty.

    Extroverted Sensing (Se, )

    ESIs often have a tendency to be confrontational and may come across as unwavering and strict in their judgments and discipline. They are usually particularly oppositional towards those whom they mistrust or towards characters whose moral fortitude they are inclined to question. They may go out of their way to press judgment, fight for what they believe is ethically sound, or for those emotionally close to them. ESIs may sometimes practice a variant of "tough love," challenging others towards acting in a way they feel is in their best interests. They can often come across as matter-of-fact and demanding in their expectations of others, and may have blunt advice, especially geared towards success in the material world. They are sometimes archetypally pictured as strict disciplinarians. Often, however, they may feel as though they challenge others no harder than they challenge themselves; they are often extensively self-critical and may strive hardest to live up to their own expectations for themselves. ESIs may concern themselves with following the rules or ettiquette for successfully interacting in a formal setting, and with dressing and coming across properly to others. They often have a keen sense of style.Though ESIs are sometimes inclined to retreat from and avoid others, they at other times are not reticent to initiate contact and engage others intimately. They may become very absorbed and reliant on their emotional connections towards others. They may also at other times be highly proactive and constantly prepared to contact others or push others towards a state of activity.

    Super-Ego Block

    Introverted Logic (Ti, )

    ESIs may have a tendency to become caught up in justification for their actions, and in matters of theoretical consistency, evaluation of relative importance, and objective decision-making. They commonly see the justification of their actions according to logical and existing scientific principles as important and worthwhile, and may conscientiously wish to behave rationally and sensibly -- though they may have less interest or patience in relating their actions to theoretical material that is overly abstract. However, in fields where the practical applications of their work are based on theoretical, academic, or scientific knowledge (ie, economics, medicine, design, etc) they may feel the importance of understanding the conceptual or theoretical backing behind their actions, and they may become somewhat mired in attempting to make sense of the theoretical structure, often devoting excessive time to understanding the subject, leaving out important details, twisting facts inadvertently, and losing track of their organized arguments.ESIs usually approach the arena of academia and theory formally, trying to make sense of abstract principles by sequential organization, memorization, and force of will. They may push themselves academically while working inefficiently to the point of wearing themselves out. They are typically more comfortable in situations involving ethical or interpersonal considerations where they can listen to their internal emotional guidance than in dealing with impersonal logical argumentation.

    Extroverted Intuition (Ne, )

    ESIs often especially dislike uncertainty and have a tendency to vigilantly prepare for any and all extenuating circumstances. They may have difficulty coping with unforeseen changes or with particularly indecisive individuals, instead preferring a lifestyle of stability and continuity -- though many ESIs have developed more adaptive styles for dealing with such situations. They may feel discouraged, confused and lacking in their autonomy if they have to consider and keep track of large range of possible outcomes; instead, they may prefer a more direct and linear synopsis of what is likely to happen. In general, ESIs prefer solution-oriented, pragmatic advice and insights to abstract or theoretical material. They may have difficulty following or comprehending theoretical or associative tangents with no apparent practical basis. They are often rather straightforward and grounded in nature, and may have little interest or proficiency in dealing with overly conceptual perspectives. They may respond to many situations with the strategy of hard work and diligence, as opposed to innovative or conceptually novel modes of working. ESIs can have a tendency to see issues of morals or personal character in black and white. They may often act as though viscerally certain of their moral positions and character judgments, and may be dismissive of attempts to contextualize situations ethically, instead seeing others as clearly responsible for their actions and reprehensible.

    Super-Id Block


    Extroverted Logic (Te, )

    ESIs are commonly unconfident about their ability to gather and apply new information related to their life conditions or productive efforts. They may be unsure about how to go about critically evaluating the veracity of the information they come across, instead seeking explanations and additional information from others (sources). They are often unaware of and not inclined to think in terms of the best or most efficient way of getting something done, and may have difficulty conceptualizing what schedule, activity, or methodology they should follow in order to best meet their goals. They may have problems evaluating whether they have done enough on a particular task or whether their work was effective.ESIs are typically practically minded, and may tend to prefer explanations based in everyday common sense rather than extensive theory. They may also see little point in any endeavor that cannot be applied to their well-being in some way. They are often deeply invested in learning interesting or useful skills or concepts that may assist them in their daily life. They can sometimes dedicate themselves to improving themselves in this way very industriously, but they may be simultaneously unsure in what ways they should apply themselves; they may have difficulty discriminating between those ventures that are effective and those that are not, sometimes leading them into questionable methodological practices, e.g. alternative medicines. ESIs may feel deeply hindered and unsettled by the various tasks that they don't know how to do or areas they are unskilled at. ESIs are commonly emotionally and factually straightforward in conversation, and may prefer interacting with individuals equally blunt. They may appreciate attention to accuracy and specificity of information in others, seeing these qualities as signs of a trustworthy and reliable acquaintance. In general, ESIs may prefer a communication style that may seem robotic and inexpressive to others, but in reality emphasizes internal feelings and unhindered transfer of information.

    Introverted Intuition (Ni, )


    ESIs may see life as a gradual process of learning and new experiences. While ESIs may tend to be resistant to change and slow towards changing their views or incorporating their experiences into their conscious identity, but they also may tend towards a ruminative, reflective, and contemplative strategy in making sense of their experience and what lessons or methods of self-improvement they might discern from it. Importantly, as ESIs come to understand their experiences, their primarily "closed" and private demeanor may be tempered with periods of good humor and emotional openness. They may orient themselves towards thinking of their goals in a primarily long-term perspective. ESIs are typically resolute and decisive in dealing with situations they see developing or already in front of them, but at the same time they are keen to avoid being too impulsive and taking actions they will regret later. They tend to appreciate periodically having an outside evaluation of how a situation is likely to develop in order to keep from worrying excessively. Without an outside reassurance that a task can be accomplished in time without hurry, or that there is no need to deal with an ongoing development and that for the moment it's best to wait and see, ESIs may tend to get anxious about running out of time, and may be inclined to try to deal with such issues immediately and sometimes impulsively. (This last part is a bit like me. My ESTp friend often tells me to "relax" because I sometimes do this.)

    Id Block

    Extroverted Ethics (Fe, )

    ESIs may sometimes be concerned with mantaining a positive emotional environment, sustaining a group mood, having fun and joking, etc. -- but usually do not focus towards this end as much as they do towards the internal experience of their emotions, and they usually see no point in maintaining a group atmosphere if they do not already have a positive attitude towards the people involved; they may simply be inclined to walk away and not participate in an atmosphere generated by individuals they dislike, which may be seen by others as judgmental and spoiling the mood. ESIs may have difficulty interacting in environments where the air is openly hostile and unfriendly and can seek to ensure that others maintain minimum standards of cordiality and decency, especially if the environment is constituted by people they care about. However, at other times they may be responsible for and willing to sacrifice a friendly atmosphere by censuring others whom they see as reprehensible. In general, ESIs' sense of moral integrity and conscience is more influential in their decision making.Though ESIs often show a degree of conscientiousness as to the way others respond to their actions, this tends to be only their driving motivation to base their actions on the expected reactions of others inasmuch as their personal relationships are at stake. They may at times be surprisingly blunt in their communications, instead taking a pragmatic approach towards disseminating rather direct advice.

    Introverted Sensing (Si, )

    ESIs may be unconcerned with optimizing their sensory pleasures, with matters of personal comfort, their own internal well-being, or other matters regarding their physical state. They may sometimes concern themselves with these things and are often fastidious about matters such as cooking or the sensory pleasures of others. However, they may tend to emphasize these things primarily when there is not some more pressing matter to think about. In general, rather than pampering themselves or others, they may tend to take an approach more geared towards rigorous self-improvement, discipline, and self-imposed challenges. ESIs may be inclined to provide advice towards dressing well, impressing others, or helping others interpret health-related concerns.

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    @Resonare

    just a note, it's usually pointless to listen to Maritsa. Ask anyone on this forum (though the consensus is not why I think this way about Maritsa - I determined it independently).


    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    That is my mentality most of the time. I used to play a real-time strategy, fantasy, action game which was 50 vs 50 and my attitude towards that was certainly this. I remember when I took control of a battle, everyone did as I said and we completely crushed the other team. Have course, I used to write strategy guides on the forum so perhaps people listened because of that and not so much because of my energy.
    Now if this was IRL and not just in a video game then it could pass for Se in ego. Also, the strategy guides.. sounds more Ni ego, if that's what people listened to, yeah.


    I've always been pretty confident despite my abnormalities and being depressed, but I'm not ambitious and I'm only good at leading people after having taken a step back to look at the situation, not full on in the moment.
    Bolded: not Se-leading.


    Now this is tricky because I am like this and also not. I am aware that I have this way of coming across as rather arrogant which may be me subconsciously displaying my advantages to others, though my friend (SLE-Ti) said it was because I used to think that I could do anything I put my mind to which is another reason why I don't think I am truly a negativist. Never acknowledging my injuries is very true. I initially never acknowledged that there was anything different about me until so many issues came up that I became unable to ignore them.
    Observe a real SEE IRL and you'll see the differences.

    The bolded has nothing to do with the negativist/positivist dichotomy. That's simply about how you see things when you build your concepts - by similarities, by what is there (positivist) or by contrasts and by what is missing (negativist). I repeat, this is not about optimism/pessimism.


    I wouldn't get lost but my approach wouldn't be to simply mobilize myself and use strength to power through. I would tackle the problem by analyzing it and coming up with a general plan to counter it.
    Ni ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I'd say so, yes. I mean, if it's clearly not going to work or there's a big chance of it not then I may not be open to it, but if I don't (initially) see how it wouldn't work then I'd be all for it.
    Sounds like negativist and ILI, you first focus on what's not there, what's missing, what wouldn't work -- again, this isn't necessarily the same as pessimism.


    At my best I am like this, at my worst I probably would start using unlikely negative possibilities as an excuse to not embrace it.
    At your best you have enough Se in the environment, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Now if this was IRL and not just in a video game then it could pass for Se in ego. Also, the strategy guides.. sounds more Ni ego, if that's what people listened to, yeah.
    They weren't very in-depth and I jumped into them without first exploring some of the content in full.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Bolded: not Se-leading.
    I don't think I'm an ESxp but ISxj seems very possible to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Observe a real SEE IRL and you'll see the differences.
    I'm pretty sure my brother is SEE. He tested it, self-identified as it, looks a bit like the VI SEEs and certainly thinks like one but with a tendency to think ahead in terms of career path.

    Perhaps he has been "dualized"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    The bolded has nothing to do with the negativist/positivist dichotomy. That's simply about how you see things when you build your concepts - by similarities, by what is there (positivist) or by contrasts and by what is missing (negativist). I repeat, this is not about optimism/pessimism.
    I tend to see what is there and where it can go or how I can improve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Ni ego.
    Actually, I am reading the Ni HA thread and it's pretty close to how I am. I always mark my work as "done" or "not done" and I do have an issue when it comes to leaving things undone. Even as I type, I was against taking the festive holiday days off because I made a breakthrough with my programming and wanted to get it done as quickly as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Sounds like negativist and ILI, you first focus on what's not there, what's missing, what wouldn't work -- again, this isn't necessarily the same as pessimism.
    Or I would just immediately not be for an idea which centers around people being able to fly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    At your best you have enough Se in the environment, I guess.
    It doesn't really depend on other people.

    Yeah, the way I disengage from people and refuse to interact with them is pretty ESI lol. I will just not even talk to some people and I won't even know why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    They weren't very in-depth and I jumped into them without first exploring some of the content in full.
    Right if not too in-depth, why not jump in fast.


    I don't think I'm an ESxp but ISxj seems very possible to me.
    You seem to have too much focus on Ni and Te for that.


    I'm pretty sure my brother is SEE. He tested it, self-identified as it, looks a bit like the VI SEEs and certainly thinks like one but with a tendency to think ahead in terms of career path.

    Perhaps he has been "dualized"?
    Hahaha yes maybe by you.

    Anyway, joke aside, I don't know why he is looking at career long term, other than this sounding a pretty Gamma thing (but not just Gamma of course), this isn't going to be explained just by socionics.


    I tend to see what is there and where it can go or how I can improve it.
    Sounds like Gamma NT, yes.

    How do you build concepts - by comparing or by contrasting? (This is the only relevant question I'd still like answered.)


    Actually, I am reading the Ni HA thread and it's pretty close to how I am. I always mark my work as "done" or "not done" and I do have an issue when it comes to leaving things undone. Even as I type, I was against taking the festive holiday days off because I made a breakthrough with my programming and wanted to get it done as quickly as possible.
    I don't see any of this as Ni HA specific. I'm Ni HA and I don't mark my work like that. I do like to finish things which is related to a gazillion things, from Rationality to DCNH Terminal type and factors outside socionics.


    Or I would just immediately not be for an idea which centers around people being able to fly.
    Yet, people are able to fly by planes. I suppose that was also unimaginable before it was actually done.

    (Not saying it's possible for people to suddenly just start flying by magic, lol.)

    Yeah you don't specifically sound Ne demonstrative.


    It doesn't really depend on other people.

    Yeah, the way I disengage from people and refuse to interact with them is pretty ESI lol. I will just not even talk to some people and I won't even know why.
    This isn't ESI specific. ILI does this too. LIE doesn't typically do this due to Fe Role. Actually, ESI would have clear feeling judgments on not talking to people, as far as my understanding goes.


    Anyway. I am bored of analyzing ambiguous tidbits that are not strictly type specific and instead could point in many directions for the reasons causing them. I do not see the point to this, at all.

    There is one relevant question remaining as above.

    I trust that over time you will see more general trends in your own life along with understanding the theory deeper and see your type more clearly then. Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Hahaha yes maybe by you.

    Anyway, joke aside, I don't know why he is looking at career long term, other than this sounding a pretty Gamma thing (but not just Gamma of course), this isn't going to be explained just by socionics.
    This is a big part of the problem for me. I can look at socionics descriptions and see how certain people in my life match them but I see so many different sides of myself that I can't find comfort in any type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Sounds like Gamma NT, yes.

    How do you build concepts - by comparing or by contrasting? (This is the only relevant question I'd still like answered.)
    Contrasting. I probably am a negativist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I don't see any of this as Ni HA specific. I'm Ni HA and I don't mark my work like that. I do like to finish things which is related to a gazillion things, from Rationality to DCNH Terminal type and factors outside socionics.
    That was a specific example from that thread. I relate to a few of the other examples as well e.g. becoming frustrated by the feeling that something must be done but being unable to come up with the best course of action

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yet, people are able to fly by planes. I suppose that was also unimaginable before it was actually done.

    (Not saying it's possible for people to suddenly just start flying by magic, lol.)

    Yeah you don't specifically sound Ne demonstrative.
    I didn't mean it literally, I just meant that I wouldn't take ideas seriously if they were centered around something totally false.

    Perhaps that was a bad example on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    This isn't ESI specific. ILI does this too. LIE doesn't typically do this due to Fe Role. Actually, ESI would have clear feeling judgments on not talking to people, as far as my understanding goes.
    The root cause of it is due to me not trusting or wanting to engage anyone irl, but there will be particular cases where I simply go overboard and don't know why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Anyway. I am bored of analyzing ambiguous tidbits that are not strictly type specific and instead could point in many directions for the reasons causing them. I do not see the point to this, at all.

    There is one relevant question remaining as above.

    I trust that over time you will see more general trends in your own life along with understanding the theory deeper and see your type more clearly then. Good luck!
    Well, I'm either ESI or ILI because I do think I am a Gamma and a Negativist based on how I am now. I don't see much ILI in myself and I know whatever sociotype I am it is definitely strongly connected to the ESI (if not this type itself) because I can relate to a lot of the descriptions, plus I relate to Gamma Se+Fi more than Ni+Te.

    I guess the question is when would a type become reliant on the Super-Id block?

    Also, I'd like to thank you for your contribution so far in helping me discover my type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    This is a big part of the problem for me. I can look at socionics descriptions and see how certain people in my life match them but I see so many different sides of myself that I can't find comfort in any type.
    Ah, well, this one single system doesn't cover everything about how you work anyway. But certain trends about IEs should work for many people. So again, I think you probably just need time to see them in yourself.


    Contrasting. I probably am a negativist.
    OK, I find this dichotomy reliable if tested for via its core concept so yes LIE is out, ILI remains (and sure, ESI is also a Negativist)


    That was a specific example from that thread. I relate to a few of the other examples as well e.g. becoming frustrated by the feeling that something must be done but being unable to come up with the best course of action
    Ah ok, the funny thing is I don't relate to that myself. I very easily think of concrete steps to be done. Best course? In what sense? For me, what I think up is concrete and executable and logical and usually even efficient enough.


    I didn't mean it literally, I just meant that I wouldn't take ideas seriously if they were centered around something totally false.

    Perhaps that was a bad example on my part.
    Gotcha.


    The root cause of it is due to me not trusting or wanting to engage anyone irl, but there will be particular cases where I simply go overboard and don't know why.
    Wonder if that's linked to Se DS in any way for you.


    Well, I'm either ESI or ILI because I do think I am a Gamma and a Negativist based on how I am now. I don't see much ILI in myself and I know whatever sociotype I am it is definitely strongly connected to the ESI (if not this type itself) because I can relate to a lot of the descriptions, plus I relate to Gamma Se+Fi more than Ni+Te.
    Yeah the Gamma introverts would resemble each other a bit, superficially.

    The question is, what you mean by relating to Se+Fi more... just liking them more or actually being more conscious of these IE processes most of the time with ability to control them directly.


    I guess the question is when would a type become reliant on the Super-Id block?
    You can't keep up self-supplying the suggestive function for long at all. The mobilizing function is still limited in terms of this.


    Also, I'd like to thank you for your contribution so far in helping me discover my type.
    Np ...and Gamma introvert certainly narrows it down neatly, though I still think ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Ah, well, this one single system doesn't cover everything about how you work anyway. But certain trends about IEs should work for many people. So again, I think you probably just need time to see them in yourself.

    OK, I find this dichotomy reliable if tested for via its core concept so yes LIE is out, ILI remains (and sure, ESI is also a Negativist)
    Yeah that's fair enough. I don't expect whichever type I am to encompass everything that I am, nor do I even expect to relate to everything to do with it but some things about them just raise red flags.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Ah ok, the funny thing is I don't relate to that myself. I very easily think of concrete steps to be done. Best course? In what sense? For me, what I think up is concrete and executable and logical and usually even efficient enough.
    Best course in terms of feasibility, effectiveness and expenditure in cost (time, money, effort etc) which I would normally consider a sub-part of feasibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Wonder if that's linked to Se DS in any way for you.
    In MBTI terms it would be identified as inferior (negative) usage Fi. Even though they are different systems a few of the functions are described in the same way and often times the socionics descriptions seem like in-depth versions of their MBTI counterparts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yeah the Gamma introverts would resemble each other a bit, superficially.

    The question is, what you mean by relating to Se+Fi more... just liking them more or actually being more conscious of these IE processes most of the time with ability to control them directly.
    As in whenever Gamma Se+Fi could apply to a situation I'm in it often does for me, while Gamma Ni+Te doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    You can't keep up self-supplying the suggestive function for long at all. The mobilizing function is still limited in terms of this.

    Np ...and Gamma introvert certainly narrows it down neatly, though I still think ILI
    Well, most probably that or ESI. Are there any other dichotomies other than romance style that distinguish the two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    most probably that or ESI
    Reading through the previous two pages ESI is quite likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Reading through the previous two pages ESI is quite likely.
    Yeah, one of the two. I'm thinking that I'm simply just a very mathematical/technical ESI, hence my good Ni-Te which eventually falls short of my natural Se-Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Reading through the previous two pages ESI is quite likely.
    Seems a tiny little bit too dry and logical for ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Yeah that's fair enough. I don't expect whichever type I am to encompass everything that I am, nor do I even expect to relate to everything to do with it but some things about them just raise red flags.
    Advice. Don't go with the behaviourist approach as far as type descriptions go. The trends you can spot in them that are directly IE related are OK.


    Best course in terms of feasibility, effectiveness and expenditure in cost (time, money, effort etc) which I would normally consider a sub-part of feasibility.
    Te.


    In MBTI terms it would be identified as inferior (negative) usage Fi. Even though they are different systems a few of the functions are described in the same way and often times the socionics descriptions seem like in-depth versions of their MBTI counterparts.
    That makes sense.


    As in whenever Gamma Se+Fi could apply to a situation I'm in it often does for me, while Gamma Ni+Te doesn't.
    Honestly, I don't know you IRL but here you never displayed the Fi+Se, only the Ni+Te, in a confident natural way.


    Well, most probably that or ESI. Are there any other dichotomies other than romance style that distinguish the two?
    ILI is a Dynamic, ESI is a Static type. Look into dimensionality much yet?

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    Ah I just noticed that you were referring to this "That was a specific example from that thread. I relate to a few of the other examples as well e.g. becoming frustrated by the feeling that something must be done but being unable to come up with the best course of action"

    How typical is this for you? Some examples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Advice. Don't go with the behaviourist approach as far as type descriptions go. The trends you can spot in them that are directly IE related are OK.

    Te.
    I acknowledge that my Te is high but so is my Se, so either way I have a strong DS function. I should also mention that the person I immediately became friends with back in high school was an ESTj (looked VI ISTp, definite Si-Te).

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    That makes sense.

    Honestly, I don't know you IRL but here you never displayed the Fi+Se, only the Ni+Te, in a confident natural way.

    ILI is a Dynamic, ESI is a Static type. Look into dimensionality much yet?
    Maybe on here but I can assure you I display a lot of Se-Fi irl to the extreme. It's the only function pair I can absolutely relate to.

    I looked into dynamic/static with @Deer Woman and yourself on an earlier page, I'll take a second look at some point to be sure.

    By the way, is there any validity in this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Ah I just noticed that you were referring to this "That was a specific example from that thread. I relate to a few of the other examples as well e.g. becoming frustrated by the feeling that something must be done but being unable to come up with the best course of action"

    How typical is this for you? Some examples?
    All the time when I'm composing music and it happens a lot and renders me immobile when something comes up and I need to act quickly.

    A specific, recent example would be when both me and my brother were at home for Christmas while my parents were away and the food in the house was running out. I spent almost 30 minutes talking to him (while he was studying) trying to decide on what to do. I was becoming more and more frustrated trying to look for an ideal option which simply wasn't there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I acknowledge that my Te is high but so is my Se, so either way I have a strong DS function. I should also mention that the person I immediately became friends with back in high school was an ESTj (looked VI ISTp, definite Si-Te).
    What do you relate to in Se creative, then?


    Maybe on here but I can assure you I display a lot of Se-Fi irl to the extreme. It's the only function pair I can absolutely relate to.
    If you translated this phrasing into everyday words "I display a lot of Se-Fi irl to the extreme", I would be able to say more on it.


    By the way, is there any validity in this?
    It's a bit too ambiguous stuff there.


    All the time when I'm composing music and it happens a lot and renders me immobile when something comes up and I need to act quickly.

    A specific, recent example would be when both me and my brother were at home for Christmas while my parents were away and the food in the house was running out. I spent almost 30 minutes talking to him (while he was studying) trying to decide on what to do. I was becoming more and more frustrated trying to look for an ideal option which simply wasn't there.
    Describe more on that thought process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    What do you relate to in Se creative, then?
    Mentioned it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    If you translated this phrasing into everyday words "I display a lot of Se-Fi irl to the extreme", I would be able to say more on it.
    Fi blocked with Se


    • Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
    • Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
    • Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance.
    All of those are true about me in every sense. I dislike people talking over me so I make it a point to not try and talk over others. If someone tries to talk over me I will punish them by not engaging them. Some people have even asked me about what I was going to say and I just refuse to tell them as punishment.

    Loyalty goes without saying. I don't let anyone get close to me who I can't be loyal to or trust, hence why no one is close to me right now.

    I mentioned how the last point applied to me here before doing any research on this matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    It's a bit too ambiguous stuff there.
    I thought so but had to ask anyway. If there's an explanation as to why a type would identify with their Super-Id block under stress or depression then I'd be more open to typing as ILI-Te.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Describe more on that thought process.
    I realize that I need to do something and become very restless but I don't jump into things like how @Maritsa described the ILI's leading Ni. Rather, I get a feeling of restlessness and I try to come up with the ideal plan to fix it. Sometimes I am restless first and then I realize that it's due to me needing to do something but often times it is in the order I described first. Either way I then start thinking of how I can solve my problem by coming up with a plan and quickly checking if it doesn't meet a criterion which I remember when checking proceeding plans. For example, in the example I mentioned above the food and my brother, I mentioned a few plans that involved going to the supermarket and going to a fast food place but I was under the criteria that wherever I went had to be close, the food had to be fast food-like but it also had to be decently priced which caused the problem.

    In the end I went to the supermarket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Mentioned it here.
    OK, I'm not going to get down to every minute detail as they can be interpreted in too many ways without having the real context.

    But here's my general observations.

    You didn't bold most of the insecure parts in Te suggestive. The same for Ti role. Whatever you bolded in Fe ignoring seems more Fe PoLR than strong 3D Fe. The Si again is bolded in a way that it seems just weak devalued Si rather than the very strong 4D demonstrative Si of ESI.

    As for the Fi base: when you bolded "ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others." - "primarily" is the key word here. Is this what you are always and naturally focused on? You don't come off that way to me. You seem to focus on logic much more naturally than on emotions. It's quite telling that you did not bold the parts that would indicate 4D Fi and not just strongly valued gamma Fi.


    All of those are true about me in every sense. I dislike people talking over me so I make it a point to not try and talk over others. If someone tries to talk over me I will punish them by not engaging them. Some people have even asked me about what I was going to say and I just refuse to tell them as punishment.

    Loyalty goes without saying. I don't let anyone get close to me who I can't be loyal to or trust, hence why no one is close to me right now.
    OK. If that's all, it doesn't make you "extremely Fi+Se". What you quoted is simply quadra values, all gammas may relate to it.

    If you go back to your 80q you can see your answers for Ni/Te were definitely stronger than answers for Fi/Se though you weren't terrible at those either. It sounds like decently dualized ILI


    I mentioned how the last point applied to me here before doing any research on this matter.
    Yes general gamma values. Same post also shows Ni ego.


    I thought so but had to ask anyway. If there's an explanation as to why a type would identify with their Super-Id block under stress or depression then I'd be more open to typing as ILI-Te.
    Well people can overidentify with the HA, which for an ILI would be Fi.


    I realize that I need to do something and become very restless but I don't jump into things like how @Maritsa described the ILI's leading Ni.
    I wasn't paying attention to Maritsa's posts but are you sure she described it as jumping in without thought?


    Rather, I get a feeling of restlessness and I try to come up with the ideal plan to fix it. Sometimes I am restless first and then I realize that it's due to me needing to do something but often times it is in the order I described first. Either way I then start thinking of how I can solve my problem by coming up with a plan and quickly checking if it doesn't meet a criterion which I remember when checking proceeding plans. For example, in the example I mentioned above the food and my brother, I mentioned a few plans that involved going to the supermarket and going to a fast food place but I was under the criteria that wherever I went had to be close, the food had to be fast food-like but it also had to be decently priced which caused the problem.

    In the end I went to the supermarket.
    How was it a problem that it had to be decently priced?

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    Commenting on that chatbox stuff too.

    {Resonare} - {Report Shout} Today 03:59 PM
    Am I fully in control? I'm normally half-half I think but when I feel like I don't have enough control I'll detach myself from that person or become very resistant
    {Resonare} - {Report Shout} Today 04:03 PM
    hmm tbh Myst it would probably be control as in getting the other person to do what you want


    You remind me of an ILI-Te friend who can get domineering in certain areas in her relationship Some stuff is important to her so she tries to have control there and she stays out of everything else. She's also quite into Fi, she loves analyzing a lot of Fi stuff in her blog but it's clear it's not in her Ego (because she has to analyse it with effort) and that she has suggestive Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK, I'm not going to get down to every minute detail as they can be interpreted in too many ways without having the real context.

    But here's my general observations.

    You didn't bold most of the insecure parts in Te suggestive. The same for Ti role. Whatever you bolded in Fe ignoring seems more Fe PoLR than strong 3D Fe. The Si again is bolded in a way that it seems just weak devalued Si rather than the very strong 4D demonstrative Si of ESI.

    As for the Fi base: when you bolded "ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others." - "primarily" is the key word here. Is this what you are always and naturally focused on? You don't come off that way to me. You seem to focus on logic much more naturally than on emotions. It's quite telling that you did not bold the parts that would indicate 4D Fi and not just strongly valued gamma Fi.
    Thanks for the analysis . I'm not primarily focused on my inner emotional state but I am very away when my emotional state is out of balance and it can stop me from functioning. I am quite naturally aware of the emotional reactions of others and their motives as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK. If that's all, it doesn't make you "extremely Fi+Se". What you quoted is simply quadra values, all gammas may relate to it.
    If that's the case then fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    If you go back to your 80q you can see your answers for Ni/Te were definitely stronger than answers for Fi/Se though you weren't terrible at those either. It sounds like decently dualized ILI
    So what does it actually mean to "dualize" someone? Is it to simply develop their dual-seeking function by interacting with them with your base function? If I am ILI-Te could I dualize an EII with my strong Te?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yes general gamma values. Same post also shows Ni ego.

    Well people can overidentify with the HA, which for an ILI would be Fi.
    Tbh, as soon as I read the Fi function descrption from MBTI I knew it was definately one of my four functions, or in socionics terms I knew I valued it, even more so than Te. It's the percieving pair which has always made me question my type. Sure, the socionics and MBTI descrptions of Ni are probably the most contrasting of all the functions, but they're still both based off of Jung's original work and I don't particurly identify with Ni from Psychological Types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I wasn't paying attention to Maritsa's posts but are you sure she described it as jumping in without thought?
    She described it as "chasing someone down like a greyhound".

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    How was it a problem that it had to be decently priced?
    I can be pretty loose with my money from time to time but on that day I particularly didn't want to have to go out to buy dissappointing, overpriced food.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Commenting on that chatbox stuff too.

    You remind me of an ILI-Te friend who can get domineering in certain areas in her relationship Some stuff is important to her so she tries to have control there and she stays out of everything else. She's also quite into Fi, she loves analyzing a lot of Fi stuff in her blog but it's clear it's not in her Ego (because she has to analyse it with effort) and that she has suggestive Se.
    Yeah, one of the only reasons I still entertain INTJ/ILI is because I'm fairly sure I'm a type 1w9 in enneagram and INTJ type 1s are said to have quite high Te and Fi and but not particurly good Ni despite it being the leading/base function. Your friend sounds like a type 1 to me.

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    Here we go again @Myst ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion Dual relations
    The SEE periodically makes statements about need to proceed forward, to act immediately and decisively, to overcome any difficulties, etc. The ILI attentively listens to these "program" statements and relates to them with understanding, occasionally turning to the SEE for advice over this function: "Who is able? Who has the means?" The SEE shouldn't be advised on this function; he will hardly tolerate this. Approaching him from the position of superiority may lead to competitive demonstrations from his side. Externally the ILI should follow the SEE in everything and submit to his will, while internally he may object and disagree. Main thing is to agree with everything that SEE says, following the principle: "Listen - but later do everything your own way." When there is open verbal exchange of information on this channel, the ILI plays the role of the one who is being led.
    What is it with all of these sources saying ILIs submit to SEEs? The above implies I'm SEE and it seems to contridict what Gulenko said here...

    Psuedo-Aggressors/Employees: LIE (ENTj) ILI (INTp)

    These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life...

    Aggressors/Employers: SEE (ESFp) ESI (ISFj)

    These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Thanks for the analysis . I'm not primarily focused on my inner emotional state but I am very away when my emotional state is out of balance and it can stop me from functioning. I am quite naturally aware of the emotional reactions of others and their motives as well.
    Np


    So what does it actually mean to "dualize" someone? Is it to simply develop their dual-seeking function by interacting with them with your base function? If I am ILI-Te could I dualize an EII with my strong Te?
    It's having a superid that gets supported well by the dual(s) and so you overall function better. EII is only the beneficiary of ILI, so not really the same thing.


    Tbh, as soon as I read the Fi function descrption from MBTI I knew it was definately one of my four functions, or in socionics terms I knew I valued it, even more so than Te. It's the percieving pair which has always made me question my type. Sure, the socionics and MBTI descrptions of Ni are probably the most contrasting of all the functions, but they're still both based off of Jung's original work and I don't particurly identify with Ni from Psychological Types.
    I know/have seen a few ILI's who don't identify that well with many Ni descriptions if they are made too "mystical". My guess is this is because the Ni is paired with strong practical logic (I find this issue is the case more often with ILI-Te's). Ni with F would be closer to those descriptions.


    She described it as "chasing someone down like a greyhound".
    That's weird.


    Yeah, one of the only reasons I still entertain INTJ/ILI is because I'm fairly sure I'm a type 1w9 in enneagram and INTJ type 1s are said to have quite high Te and Fi and but not particurly good Ni despite it being the leading/base function. Your friend sounds like a type 1 to me.
    Possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Here we go again @Myst ...

    What is it with all of these sources saying ILIs submit to SEEs? The above implies I'm SEE and it seems to contridict what Gulenko said here...
    Good question. Looks like other factors are mixed into the descriptions beyond just socionics. Look around this forum about SEE/ILI relationships as experienced/observed by people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    It's having a superid that gets supported well by the dual(s) and so you overall function better. EII is only the beneficiary of ILI, so not really the same thing.
    Dual(s)? Would the SLE truly be considered the dual of the ILI? I'm quite interested in this one because I had an SLE friend who often tried to do little dominant things ,like jump in front of me when girls were around, and whatnot and I almost always ended up having to sort of drag the guy back and put him on a leech/bring him under control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I know/have seen a few ILI's who don't identify that well with many Ni descriptions if they are made too "mystical". My guess is this is because the Ni is paired with strong practical logic (I find this issue is the case more often with ILI-Te's). Ni with F would be closer to those descriptions.
    Yeah, I used to be very skeptical of an "INxJ" claiming they fully relate to those descriptions of Ni, especially INTJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Possible.
    Btw, do you have any insights into my enneagram? I am fairly sure that I'm a 1w9 but I also relate to 4, 5,

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Good question. Looks like other factors are mixed into the descriptions beyond just socionics. Look around this forum about SEE/ILI relationships as experienced/observed by people?
    I've taken a brief look and I don't really relate to being a victim. Sure, some of the stuff is true but a lot of the images these descriptions paint seem a bit off. For example, I'm not sure if you've watched the Chinese series "Three Kingdoms" but there are several acts of intense loyalty and submission shown in that show that moved me every time, and despite how much I despise the human race I just know that if someone did that for me I would have the highest respect for them and sooner die than betray them. I admire weakness in others and I tend to habitually ignore those with a lot of strength which is one of the major reasons I don't identify with being a victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Okay... Who is the most annoying person on the planet to you - as in an actress, movie character, etc.? If that function keeps popping up as annoying, it is probably your PoLR. What is your favourite actress, movie character, etc.? The same applies... Further, who are some people you really identify with? Is there a pattern there?
    For anyone who has not watched a short TV show called "Casshern Sins", I highly, highly recommend watching it if you enjoy seeing many different yet deep intertype relationships in one show. I wouldn't want to spoil such a great show for anyone so continue if you don't mind spoilers.

    It's important to mention that Casshern (the guy in white) is extremely depressed and suicidal because he killed Luna (the Jesus figure of the show) who was granting all robots eternal life, thus leading all robots to "ruin" (death). By killing Luna, Casshern was cursed with extreme regenerative abilities and immortality. At the start of the show, he awakes with amnesia, slowly finding out what he's done to the world while trying to find a way to atone for his actions, hence the title "Casshern Sins".

    Casshern and Dio





    Dio and Leda



    Casshern and Sophita

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylutP4zuIfw

    Full interaction



    Casshern and Lyuze

    The most complicated relationship that I think can only be grasped by watching the series (only 24 eps).

    Any insights are welcome. I'll probably end up posting this again in a sub-forum more specific to this kind of post.

     


    I'm typing based off of my knowledge of Jung's Psychological Types, MBTI and my newly (limited) acquired knowledge of socionics so keep that in mind.

    Dio is some kind of aggressor, probably ILI or LIE as I think he is a Gamma and an enneagram type 8. He is the character in all of fiction that I relate to the most and see myself in. His relationship with Leda is what comes to mind when I think of Gamma duals. She has her own goals and she's using him to realize them. All Dio really wants is to prove his might, will and strength (Se Super-Id?) against Casshern who has always been one step ahead of him despite being his identical twin, but Leda slowly works him into wanting the same goals as her i.e. world domination and power. If you've watched the show then you'll know just how deep Leda's character goes.

    I'm convinced that Sophita is an SEE, possibly SLE but most likely SEE. She comes across as sort of infantile at times (Ne-role?) but she's consistently an aggressor for the most part, even going as far as to outright state her interest in Casshern as soon as she met him.

    Casshern and Lyuze are the two hardest for me to type and I go back and forth between a few types for each of them. I have a hunch on Casshern's type but would like to hear other thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Dual(s)? Would the SLE truly be considered the dual of the ILI? I'm quite interested in this one because I had an SLE friend who often tried to do little dominant things ,like jump in front of me when girls were around, and whatnot and I almost always ended up having to sort of drag the guy back and put him on a leech/bring him under control.
    SLE is only a semidual.


    Btw, do you have any insights into my enneagram? I am fairly sure that I'm a 1w9 but I also relate to 4, 5,
    No idea.


    I've taken a brief look and I don't really relate to being a victim. Sure, some of the stuff is true but a lot of the images these descriptions paint seem a bit off. For example, I'm not sure if you've watched the Chinese series "Three Kingdoms" but there are several acts of intense loyalty and submission shown in that show that moved me every time, and despite how much I despise the human race I just know that if someone did that for me I would have the highest respect for them and sooner die than betray them. I admire weakness in others and I tend to habitually ignore those with a lot of strength which is one of the major reasons I don't identify with being a victim.
    I already talked about this before but I'll sum up again...

    You do understand Gamma NT is more like pseudo-aggressor. Victim just means Se superid, otherwise they can act pretty aggressor like.

    I don't see ILI-Te as a "victim" like IEI-Ni for example. Especially not if D in DCNH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    SLE is only a semidual.
    Our friendship seemed more like that of supervision than duality. I have to reign him in often (not in an aggressive-dominant way) and I tend to end up scolding him on his lack of morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I already talked about this before but I'll sum up again...

    You do understand Gamma NT is more like pseudo-aggressor. Victim just means Se superid, otherwise they can act pretty aggressor like.

    I don't see ILI-Te as a "victim" like IEI-Ni for example. Especially not if D in DCNH.
    You're probably right but a lot of material I've read online and quoted here do make them sound rather bitch-like and I don't mean to offend any Beta NFs by saying this but that's honestly what it comes across like. I remember EJArendee making a video about how INTJs are really weak little bitches inside and ENTJs deep down crave to be someone's bitch. It seemed pretty far-fetched at the time and I dismissed it but now I see where he was getting it all from.

    It's probably just best to totally ignore romantic styles when it comes to my type, I guess.

    Btw, have you had a chance to look at my post above your reply? I'm interested in your opinion of their types and whether or not I'm typing them correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Our friendship seemed more like that of supervision than duality. I have to reign him in often (not in an aggressive-dominant way) and I tend to end up scolding him on his lack of morality.
    So do you think the relationship is actually asymmetrical and it isn't just the usual semidual conflicts?


    You're probably right but a lot of material I've read online and quoted here do make them sound rather bitch-like and I don't mean to offend any Beta NFs by saying this but that's honestly what it comes across like. I remember EJArendee making a video about how INTJs are really weak little bitches inside and ENTJs deep down crave to be someone's bitch. It seemed pretty far-fetched at the time and I dismissed it but now I see where he was getting it all from.
    Wow alot of silly stereotypes.


    It's probably just best to totally ignore romantic styles when it comes to my type, I guess.
    Yeah, it would not be the decisive factor in typing.


    Btw, have you had a chance to look at my post above your reply? I'm interested in your opinion of their types and whether or not I'm typing them correctly.
    Sorry, I don't have time for watching it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    So do you think the relationship is actually asymmetrical and it isn't just the usual semidual conflicts?
    To put it simply; he would hit me over the head with an Se hammer and I would beat him with an Fi one. By this, I mean that if I started worrying about something or became unsure, you'd quickly hear him say something like "Who cares!?", or sometimes "hmmmm..." *roll eyes* which would help me realize that I was being ridiculous about something and all I needed to do was just be myself and act. On the other hand, the Fi hammer was something I used on him far more probably because he was like a poster boy for Fi-polr. His plans and actions are something I don't want to get into but I would typically react like "Wow, you did that? That's so messed up man..." or "What the hell is wrong with you?".

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Wow alot of silly stereotypes.
    Thanks to a lot of silly writers. Either they can't use the correct words to encapsulate their ideas or those stereotypes are actually accurate.

    Anyway, I already know which one it is and I'm confused as to why you insist they mean something other than what they wrote. I've watched the live lectures by Eleanor Berdutina and she even mentions how the SEE is drawn to "weak" people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Sorry, I don't have time for watching it.
    Yeah that's no problem

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    Ok, I've read quite a lot of material on socionics and I'm going with ESI because I do relate to Gamma SF values a lot but not the Ni-ego material. Te-ego is also questionable since I tend not to look at manuals or adhere to standard procedure e.g. when I started to learn guitar, I just purchased one, fiddled around with it and learnt to play my favorite songs. I've played guitar for 8 years now and I don't have any grades to show for it, which makes me think I'm probably not a Te-ego type as they would want external, measurable proof of proficiency.

    Overall, the Gamma NT material sounds more like how I try to be rather than how I simply am. It's like I have to find an excuse or a loophole in the material I've read in order to identify myself with it. For example, every source I've read and victims I've interacted with or whose posts I've read all describe them as victims, maybe not to the same degree as other victims but still victims nonetheless. I can't just ignore my past relationships that outright contridict that. Even the non-sexual dual relationships don't sound right as I live in the moment/near future anyway so wouldn't need an Se-ego to bring me into the moment.

    So that's it folks, thanks a lot to everyone who contributed to helping me find my type. If I'm wrong then I'll be back here but I'm sure this is my real sociotype, not one of the ones I try to behave like. I even look like the VI ESIs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    To put it simply; he would hit me over the head with an Se hammer and I would beat him with an Fi one. By this, I mean that if I started worrying about something or became unsure, you'd quickly hear him say something like "Who cares!?", or sometimes "hmmmm..." *roll eyes* which would help me realize that I was being ridiculous about something and all I needed to do was just be myself and act. On the other hand, the Fi hammer was something I used on him far more probably because he was like a poster boy for Fi-polr. His plans and actions are something I don't want to get into but I would typically react like "Wow, you did that? That's so messed up man..." or "What the hell is wrong with you?".
    Well it depends who had what intentions, if he did not have intentions to mess with you but you did have such intentions, there would be a difference clearly. I would not exclude semiduality here especially with what looks like Se DS from your part here.

    Out of curiosity, example of such a plan/action of his that you reacted to this way "Wow, you did that" / "What the hell is wrong with you?". None of it sounds like ego Fi at this point.


    Thanks to a lot of silly writers. Either they can't use the correct words to encapsulate their ideas or those stereotypes are actually accurate.

    Anyway, I already know which one it is and I'm confused as to why you insist they mean something other than what they wrote. I've watched the live lectures by Eleanor Berdutina and she even mentions how the SEE is drawn to "weak" people.
    See, how "weak" is in quotes. So now what is your problem? Of course it doesn't mean literally weak. So yes of course I'm going to insist that it's not as simple as that.

    And the silly shit that some people spread... no comment. EjArendee went psycho crazy recently, apparently.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Ok, I've read quite a lot of material on socionics and I'm going with ESI because I do relate to Gamma SF values a lot but not the Ni-ego material. Te-ego is also questionable since I tend not to look at manuals or adhere to standard procedure e.g. when I started to learn guitar, I just purchased one, fiddled around with it and learnt to play my favorite songs. I've played guitar for 8 years now and I don't have any grades to show for it, which makes me think I'm probably not a Te-ego type as they would want external, measurable proof of proficiency.
    Eh, do not type from one single example. You need to see TRENDS in your life. Not just a couple specific examples. Do you seriously believe that all Te egos that ever existed in this world will only play the guitar if they can get graded for it?!


    Overall, the Gamma NT material sounds more like how I try to be rather than how I simply am. It's like I have to find an excuse or a loophole in the material I've read in order to identify myself with it. For example, every source I've read and victims I've interacted with or whose posts I've read all describe them as victims, maybe not to the same degree as other victims but still victims nonetheless. I can't just ignore my past relationships that outright contridict that. Even the non-sexual dual relationships don't sound right as I live in the moment/near future anyway so wouldn't need an Se-ego to bring me into the moment.

    So that's it folks, thanks a lot to everyone who contributed to helping me find my type. If I'm wrong then I'll be back here but I'm sure this is my real sociotype, not one of the ones I try to behave like. I even look like the VI ESIs
    Lol though, at post #161 you were saying you relate to Te and Ne the most.. ESI's two weakest. I still suggest you talk to ILI-Te's and ESIs on this forum. To me you are a clear-cut ILI-Te.

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