Edit: Definitely leaning more towards LSI for Jobs now. Also note an odd resemblance to Tom Cruise in his pictures. Might be related, or not, but I think Cruise might be EIE.
As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.
LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.
It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.
LSI-Creative is also an odd one. They are the LSIs who invent contraptions and weird shit. I once saw this LSI dude in a documentary that made these bdsm machines. Unfortunately I didn't register his name - nor that of the documentary. He seems to fit the bill.
I don't think Musk is LSI simply because his vision is too broad - LSIs rarely become CEOs of large tech companies because from what I can tell they are better at leading small groups. Ne pols can be creative(sometimes very much so) but don't seem to have a "general vision" of things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overal..._effectiveness) is definitely something that Gamma NT often seem to be passionate about. My grandfather was as LIE as they come, he even wrote a couple of books on those matters during his time as a professor of industrial engineering.
Ti rules are invisible and personal, they are matters of principle not held to any external standard, not all that unlike Fi except more structured and logically defined. Musk didn't flinch at losing large amounts of stock valuation just to make the point that money isn't important to him.
To be fair, anyone that is hugely successful is hardly a garden-variety example of their type. Lucky or not, I don't see LSI being a disqualifier for being a successful CEO (although many might argue that his leadership style is far from optimal for this purpose). I agree that leading small groups is typically more comfortable for LSI, but having a "general vision" to follow is not atypical (although this vision might be adopted from someone more visionary, possibly EIE).
Glad you guys agree Elon isn't LIE, I've had enough of that shit on VK. (Russia facebook)
Also people who vote on forums and alike are just random people, the most of which are not supposed to have good typing skills and have high conformism.
For voting is more useful the matches between those who creates own types lists of famouses. Among Russian sites such was SSS, which does not work as should in last time. Mb there are other similar bases about Jung types of famouses. Such votings are also not good due to similar reasons, which just have lesser degree than more random people on forums.
Also would be interesting to know what people think independently, before knowing others' opinions. But it's hard to get such data about famouses.
> Te is so manipulative
Your incorrectness related mostly to Ti - formal term about the majority. While Te helped to notice the practical sense of the real value.
You said alike there is significant "most" with same opinion, what is wrong. Then you've added additional params which alike disprove that I'm wrong in pointing that the "most" has no significant expression - and here you was wrong again. After you being wrong 2 times you claim that it's me who said wrong.
The manipulative is your F ego, which leads to worse understanding of T themes and such to regular mistakes there, and inappropriately expresses emotions in logical questions.
P.S. To suppose S types as good in being creative with new ideas is close to nonsense. Champions as Jobs in a region are almost always have strong that function. It's not enough to reject S type, but enough to highly doubt in it for him. I mostly type by nonverbal impressions and what I feel fits to theory better. Nonverbal approach to people who you know rather limitly and surfacely, and even with doubtful info sometimes, as famouses - is better than anything.
Its like if I said “most people’s favorite ice cream is vanilla or chocolate by far”, and vanilla or chocolate make up 53% out of a whole bunch of other possible flavors, but you’re like HURR DURR NOOOOOO people also choze strawburry sumtimez (e.g. 20%, which is less than half of the top #1 choice), so saying “most by far” it’s NOT TRUUUUEEEEEE
Which has been absolutely true in my personal life as well
I have a feeling that you haven't read a real description about LIEs yet:
Bezos is probably LSE. He's more a logistics wizard than an industry innovator, with a talent for flattening supplychains. Similar to what Sam Walton (another delta-ST) did with Walmart.
I've always pegged Elon as a feeling type. He is a hopeless romantic, as you can see from how he talks about his idea of love in interviews. I also feel like he has Ne, not Ni.
Edit: I did some research. Really not sure what he is. He just seems very emotional. I suppose what I am seeing is a childlike behavior about him, and a childlike outlook about the world. He seems to see possibilities, not reality.
Dunno what metrics you use, but he sounds like a successful person to me.
The dude is tremendously wealthy via his own efforts, I really don't think his reality testing is suspect.He seems to see possibilities, not reality.
4D Te = Assigning names to things in the environment so they can be isolated and distinguished from each other.
3D Ni = Seeing one, best possible course of action from the many possibilities.
2D Se = Seeing reality as it is, not as you wish it was. Note that it is subservient to 3D Ni, but still workable.
1D Fi = Assigning personal value. Not so good at this at all, but an object's price can be used as a workable substitute.
The guy's love life is a disaster. He seems to enjoy his achievements tho, so who knows. Successful for sure, 7 kids . I'd call that success.
Imo Elon is Alpha quadra. Ne-Ti ILE
The comments here support the obvious fact that Musk is not Gamma.
Elon is a chill guy who smoked weed on Joe Rogan's show. He is cool with me, the guy is Te demonstrative:
Elon is based, has 7 kids. Haters gonna hate.Though the ILE can demonstrate a head for practical or efficient reasoning, particularly in conjunction with the ignoring function Ni, he will typically resort to it only to sell the merits of his ideas. The ILE is more concerned with the possibility of creating than in finding the best way to do something.
When the demand exists, the ILE will deliver a practical and realistic rationale or solution, but be prepared for a tack that is singularly unorthodox. The ILE will not be boxed in by the rules of convention, rather he will actively search for a new way to perform a task. In this way, ILEs are often seen cutting corners. To others, this may be seen as snubbing the rules, and rightfully so, because the ILE dislikes the idea of a preset way of performing a task. It is counter-intuitive to their Ego. To the ILE, they are more likely playfully reinventing convention in order to show how their skills are best used or perhaps to prove that their manner of approaching the task surpasses that of Te-ego types in efficiency and practicality.
ILE is not a bad typing, but he is beta, more exactly LSI-Creative with accentuated Ne/Se. That makes for an ILE-like surface persona with LSI information metabolism.
Yeah, MBTI types most people that are smart as N-types even if they actually aren't.
bark on people when geting disagreements.
You have irrational aversion to VI due to personal reasons as
- emotional reasons to assign and after barking with people to keep SLE, for what you have no good basis which includes positive IR checking what you'd failed as SLE is wrong. you base the opinion on what incompetent noobs say to you and your same incompetent surfacely and bs (as Gulenko's subtypes) argumented fantasing. that it's not SLE my opinion is based mainly on VI, though possible traits of your type are seen in your behavior on the forum, as more possibility of J type based on your good structured talking style, Fe value due to inadequate morality in my perception, grammar accentuated reaction pointing on Ti value, etc.
- your possible Se type with weak nonvalued Ne, while VI uses mostly Ne
- your possible base Ti type having lesser objectivity and higher wish to logical speculations.
The surface typing is to use for people which you know badly as main info of what people say publicly about themselves (especially when they know the theory) and what is said publicly about them by others (especially when those are not well known to them) and to ignore other important info as nonverbal behavior. There are distortions in self-perception as in other case tests would be highly correct. People are often prejusticed to some types traits and types to filter and distort the info about themselves, partly unconsciously. So what people say is rather limited and also doubtful, filtered and sometimes incorrect info. Besides being significantly not trusty, this info has multiple interpretations due to _many_ different strong factors which may give same behavior besides Jung types. Than what people say during typings it's more interesting how they behave and talk - what you see yourself, though they may play to some degree (especially having types theory knowledge).
Compared to that, nonverbal behavior has far lesser distortions than what people say about them and others, and has lesser influence of external factors (in types related part). Nonverbal is most natural peoples behavior to analyse in typing. So to use VI is important and should be main method for typing - as it gives the least chance to be misleaded.
The silly is to recommend not giving a video following to personal reasons, while it is the best material for nonverbal. When about nonverbal is:
1) the type is expressed in nonverbal behavior by Augustinivichiute's texts. besides it's evident about some types traits that, for example, higher emotionality in the consciousnes should correlate with higher emotionality in nonverbal
2) nonverbal is widely used to type. it's evident that much of intuitive impressions about people' personal traits follow from their nonverbal and that typers use N too, which is just one of 4 mind functions. many typers prefer to have IRL contact, videos, photos - which give nonverbal
3) since 2015 there is my objective proof that nonverbal has useful info for typing which can be analysed by intuitive VI. not even trained, random forum noobs gave up to ~20% average _real_ typing match by intuitive VI of random youtube bloggers. in case there was no useful data in nonverbal or intuitive VI did not worked - they'd gave close to accidental 6% match. this ~20% is similar to gotten by IRL interviews in one of experiments SRT-99
You are objectively the very novice with minimum knowledge and practice to trust to your typing skills, the novice who argues with and ignores the recommendations of those who have far more theory knowledge and practice, you trust to random nonsense hypotheses, etc. You ignore the objectivity, hysterically bark to supress your criticism by emotions and this is not silly for your speculative mind.
> But you could receive get some good insights too.
As nonverbal is a part of useful info for typing and video is best material for nonverbal, then giving this info rises the chance to get the correct type. To type better by VI, as by any method, needs skills and practice to get them. Better the practice based on correct theory, but not random heresies as Reinin's traits. Also the material should fit to recommendations.
To type not well-known people, VI is best as main method. In case of typology knowledge by a typed human questionnaires are low trusty material. Some better is with tests, where the more problem is the accuracy.
Also MBTI users prefer to hold MBTI results after inteview in most cases (>70%), what prevents strong mistakes from wrong ideas.
Besides being incompetent, you are predisposed to baseless speculations.
To the degree to keep doubts in your T type still, as you easily produce primitive and wrong thoughts. Having a predisposition to emotionally motivated gossips.
there are no types "LSI-Creative" in Socionics
to have accentuated Ne and Se in the same time is impossibly. as stronger N means weaker S and functions develop similarly in both E/I variants
You ignore basic theory and trust to nonsense heresies.
Same bad as to take seriously opinions about the typology of fresh noobs on forums.
joke, your Fi is still butthurt I see.
You have trouble with reading comprehension. I have no aversion to VI, on the contrary, I think it is interesting and useful. The comment was to illustrate the fact that his experience is going to be a mixed bag. I can deal with receiving poor typings, but I won't always be diplomatic when responding to them if they are presented in a way that annoys me. By the way, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, Sol, and post your own VI video. What do you have to lose?
The rest of your lecture is redundant since I'm not at all opposed to VI in principle. Don't just trust someone being good in VI because they claim so. Use your own critical thinking, some people will provide a reasoning behind their VI typing, some won't. It's fine either way, but with reasoning you have an easier time to evaluate said typings.
Yes, it's also abundantly clear that you have trouble with socionics concepts developed during the recent three decades, you can claim heresy all you want. Everyone has heard it already and nobody cares.