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Thread: Gamma Duality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Jobs could be LII.

    Attachment 15966

    LSI is also possible according to my VI, but ILI is too far off.
    Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.
    Lol. I focus mainly on the eyes and gestalt of the entire expression with him. There's a certain heated intensity and focus in his eyes that makes me want to lean more towards LSI. But I definitely think he's Ti-dom. George Lucas might be the most closely comparable VI in his younger years, and he could be the LII while Jobs is the LSI.

    Edit: Definitely leaning more towards LSI for Jobs now. Also note an odd resemblance to Tom Cruise in his pictures. Might be related, or not, but I think Cruise might be EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Fair enough. That just shows that his motivations aren't about money at all and he doesn't care about growing other people's money either. He simply plays by his own rules, not those of the stock market. Ti > Te.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te)
    I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

    As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

    LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

    It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE.
    LIE-Creative is inventive and fairly undisciplined - they differ from ILEs though in that they try to apply their invetions and/or through active experimentation. ILEs are more likely to play around with their understanding of things in their mind, it seems.

    LSI-Creative is also an odd one. They are the LSIs who invent contraptions and weird shit. I once saw this LSI dude in a documentary that made these bdsm machines. Unfortunately I didn't register his name - nor that of the documentary. He seems to fit the bill.

    I don't think Musk is LSI simply because his vision is too broad - LSIs rarely become CEOs of large tech companies because from what I can tell they are better at leading small groups. Ne pols can be creative(sometimes very much so) but don't seem to have a "general vision" of things.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Just because he looks evil and is artsy
    he's not evil. just bigger brother
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

    As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

    LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

    It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.
    It is a simplified caricature, yes. Te leads might not always follow rules either, but they are, like you said, more attentive of external measurements and doing things in a more universally accepted way. Money and stock price are well-known external measurements, but it could also be the effectiveness of operations. For example, OEE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overal..._effectiveness) is definitely something that Gamma NT often seem to be passionate about. My grandfather was as LIE as they come, he even wrote a couple of books on those matters during his time as a professor of industrial engineering.

    Ti rules are invisible and personal, they are matters of principle not held to any external standard, not all that unlike Fi except more structured and logically defined. Musk didn't flinch at losing large amounts of stock valuation just to make the point that money isn't important to him.

    To be fair, anyone that is hugely successful is hardly a garden-variety example of their type. Lucky or not, I don't see LSI being a disqualifier for being a successful CEO (although many might argue that his leadership style is far from optimal for this purpose). I agree that leading small groups is typically more comfortable for LSI, but having a "general vision" to follow is not atypical (although this vision might be adopted from someone more visionary, possibly EIE).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

    As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

    LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

    It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.
    If you ever watched Dexter, you would discover that Beta Js follow rules obsessively to hide their crimes.

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    Glad you guys agree Elon isn't LIE, I've had enough of that shit on VK. (Russia facebook)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    Glad you guys agree Elon isn't LIE, I've had enough of that shit on VK. (Russia facebook)
    I agree that he is LIE, so I don't agree that he isn't LIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    Glad you guys agree Elon isn't LIE, I've had enough of that shit on VK. (Russia facebook)
    If you click on his type thread, there’s a poll on there, and most people think he’s LIE by far. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    Glad you guys agree Elon isn't LIE, I've had enough of that shit on VK. (Russia facebook)
    LIE is close to his ENTP
    In ex-USSR there are 2 popular social networks: ok.ru and vk.com . The 2nd seems has joined with FB recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    If you click on his type thread, there’s a poll on there, and most people think he’s LIE by far
    53% at now
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    LIE is close to his ENTP
    In ex-USSR there are 2 popular social networks: ok.ru and vk.com . The 2nd seems has joined with FB recently.



    53% at now
    Ok when you say it like that it makes it sound like “barely most”, when it’s actually way more than what they think any of the other types are individually. It’s not like 47% think he’s LSI, the remaining 47% is dispersed throughout 15 other types. Te is so manipulative and assholish with info lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Ok when you say it like that it makes it sound like “barely most”, when it’s actually
    53% is "barely most" actually. it's a fact
    Also people who vote on forums and alike are just random people, the most of which are not supposed to have good typing skills and have high conformism.

    For voting is more useful the matches between those who creates own types lists of famouses. Among Russian sites such was SSS, which does not work as should in last time. Mb there are other similar bases about Jung types of famouses. Such votings are also not good due to similar reasons, which just have lesser degree than more random people on forums.
    Also would be interesting to know what people think independently, before knowing others' opinions. But it's hard to get such data about famouses.

    > Te is so manipulative

    Your incorrectness related mostly to Ti - formal term about the majority. While Te helped to notice the practical sense of the real value.
    You said alike there is significant "most" with same opinion, what is wrong. Then you've added additional params which alike disprove that I'm wrong in pointing that the "most" has no significant expression - and here you was wrong again. After you being wrong 2 times you claim that it's me who said wrong.

    The manipulative is your F ego, which leads to worse understanding of T themes and such to regular mistakes there, and inappropriately expresses emotions in logical questions.

    P.S. To suppose S types as good in being creative with new ideas is close to nonsense. Champions as Jobs in a region are almost always have strong that function. It's not enough to reject S type, but enough to highly doubt in it for him. I mostly type by nonverbal impressions and what I feel fits to theory better. Nonverbal approach to people who you know rather limitly and surfacely, and even with doubtful info sometimes, as famouses - is better than anything.

    wbr
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    53% is "barely most" actually. it's a fact
    Also people who vote on forums and alike are just random people, the most of which are not supposed to have good typing skills and have high conformism.

    For voting is more useful the matches between those who creates own types lists of famouses. Among Russian sites such was SSS, which does not work as should in last time. Mb there are other similar bases about Jung types of famouses. Such votings are also not good due to similar reasons, which just have lesser degree than more random people on forums.
    Also would be interesting to know what people think independently, before knowing others' opinions. But it's hard to get such data about famouses.

    > Te is so manipulative

    Your incorrectness related mostly to Ti - formal term about the majority. While Te helped to notice the practical sense of the real value.
    You said alike there is significant "most" with same opinion, what is wrong. Then you've added additional params which alike disprove that I'm wrong in pointing that the "most" has no significant expression - and here you was wrong again. After you being wrong 2 times you claim that it's me who said wrong.

    The manipulative is your F ego, which leads to worse understanding of T themes and such to regular mistakes there, and inappropriately expresses emotions in logical questions.

    P.S. To suppose S types as good in being creative with new ideas is close to nonsense. Champions as Jobs in a region are almost always have strong that function. It's not enough to reject S type, but enough to highly doubt in it for him. I mostly type by nonverbal impressions and what I feel fits to theory better. Nonverbal approach to people who you know rather limitly and surfacely, and even with doubtful info sometimes, as famouses - is better than anything.

    wbr
    If someone clicks on the poll and takes one look at it, they will go “wow, most people think he’s LIE by far”, because by far more people think of him as LIE than any other one type. Considering we have SIXTEEN different types, the fact that ONE type out of SIXTEEN amassed 53% on its OWN (or even an amount like 30%) is huge. I hate it when people manipulate presentation of numbers for misleading people who are not as observant at math or more impressionable. Sorry, I’m not going to teach a 40 year old LSE how to interpret statistics today in a basic way. You’re supposed to have 4D Te too, stop using it for being silly and fingering your own asshole.

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    Its like if I said “most people’s favorite ice cream is vanilla or chocolate by far”, and vanilla or chocolate make up 53% out of a whole bunch of other possible flavors, but you’re like HURR DURR NOOOOOO people also choze strawburry sumtimez (e.g. 20%, which is less than half of the top #1 choice), so saying “most by far” it’s NOT TRUUUUEEEEEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).
    That's not true, common sense is, if anything, more like Fe. In the description of LIE is written: "they live by their own principles which don't necessarily match those of the societies they live in but have been formed according to the LIE's own observations and experiences"
    Which has been absolutely true in my personal life as well

    I have a feeling that you haven't read a real description about LIEs yet:
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Rational-ENTj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I don't even like admitting that Elon Musk is an LIE. He's so disconnected from how things should be, he doesn't understand the typical role of a CEO, he would rather pick fights on twitter than act professional, and he doesn't care about his actions in relation to his companies (or their stock prices, I have so, so many examples of this.)
    I can't accept that anyone would put him as a Te subtype LIE. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy is much too disconnected from the way reality works. Even just the way he runs his companies, sure he's a workaholic, but you can tell he didn't care about a majority share, until he was bit with reality, unlike 'real' LIEs like Jeff Bezos who understand how things work ahead of time. How many LIEs are going to tank their stock by admitting "Tesla is overvalued imo". Half of this guy is like a child.
    These are criticisms of decorum rather than efficacy. Elon Musk remains a radically successful billionaire, so whatever he's doing appears to be working—"muh professionalism" be damned.

    Bezos is probably LSE. He's more a logistics wizard than an industry innovator, with a talent for flattening supplychains. Similar to what Sam Walton (another delta-ST) did with Walmart.

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