Gamma Duality

[Adam Strange]

Fair enough. That just shows that his motivations aren't about money at all and he doesn't care about growing other people's money either. He simply plays by his own rules, not those of the stock market. Ti > Te.

I agree with that, yes.

LSI’s are systems builders who are guided by rules, which is why I don’t see Elon as an LSI. And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE. But that’s just my opinion.

[Northstar]

I agree with that, yes.

LSI’s are systems builders who are guided by rules, which is why I don’t see Elon as an LSI. And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE. But that’s just my opinion.

Tesla as a company operates under very tight rules and management controls, the front desk people have no say in how company policy should be followed. Elon rules the company with an iron grip, that's classic LSI.
LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).
That may seem random to Te users especially, since the thought process behind the decisions and personal rules is not verbalized.

[sbbds]

Tesla as a company operates under very tight rules and management controls, the front desk people have no say in how company policy should be followed. Elon rules the company with an iron grip, that's classic LSI.
LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).
That may seem random to Te users especially, since the thought process behind the decisions and personal rules is not verbalized.

Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.

[Northstar]

Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.

You don't become a famous CEO without being power-hungry so probably rumors about this abound on all of them. Do all these other CEOs actually spend a lot of their time at the front lines to see it with their own eyes and create rigid (harmfully so even) company policies?

[sbbds]

You don't become a famous CEO without being power-hungry so probably rumors about this abound on all of them. Do all these other CEOs actually spend a lot of their time at the front lines to see it with their own eyes and create rigid (harmfully so even) company policies?

Ok. And does that mean then that all famous CEOs are LSI?

[Northstar]

Ok. And does that mean then that all famous CEOs are LSI?

The answer to this question is left as an exercise to the reader.

[sbbds]

The answer to this question is left as an exercise to the reader.

Lmao wtf. And I leave my question out there to be considered by you and others too with that same reasoning haha.

But seriously though, the majority of people on here type Steve Jobs EIE, for the exact same reason: that he rules with an iron first, like H1tler. Well also that he’s a visionary and creative etc. That second part I can get. But overall this is like typing someone SLE because he likes bodybuilding, and then typing another person IEI also because he likes bodybuilding lol.

[Aramas]

Can you give an example of a famous CEO who isn’t said to rule with an iron grip?

On this forum, people have said that Steve Jobs is EIE lmao. And he’s said to rule with an iron grip. I mean I guess you could say that duals have similarities like that, but I just feel like there’s no consistency or temperance with how stereotypes are flung around on this forum.

Jobs could be LII.

stevejobsyoung_a.jpg

LSI is also possible according to my VI, but ILI is too far off.

[sbbds]

Jobs could be LII.

stevejobsyoung_a.jpg

LSI is also possible according to my VI, but ILI is too far off.

Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.

[Aramas]

Well VI is meh but he looks too manly and solid for LII IMO. You could sharpen a saw with his jawline.

Lol. I focus mainly on the eyes and gestalt of the entire expression with him. There's a certain heated intensity and focus in his eyes that makes me want to lean more towards LSI. But I definitely think he's Ti-dom. George Lucas might be the most closely comparable VI in his younger years, and he could be the LII while Jobs is the LSI.

Edit: Definitely leaning more towards LSI for Jobs now. Also note an odd resemblance to Tom Cruise in his pictures. Might be related, or not, but I think Cruise might be EIE.

[Ave]

Fair enough. That just shows that his motivations aren't about money at all and he doesn't care about growing other people's money either. He simply plays by his own rules, not those of the stock market. Ti > Te.

LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te)

I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.

[Northstar]

I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.

It is a simplified caricature, yes. Te leads might not always follow rules either, but they are, like you said, more attentive of external measurements and doing things in a more universally accepted way. Money and stock price are well-known external measurements, but it could also be the effectiveness of operations. For example, OEE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overal..._effectiveness) is definitely something that Gamma NT often seem to be passionate about. My grandfather was as LIE as they come, he even wrote a couple of books on those matters during his time as a professor of industrial engineering.

Ti rules are invisible and personal, they are matters of principle not held to any external standard, not all that unlike Fi except more structured and logically defined. Musk didn't flinch at losing large amounts of stock valuation just to make the point that money isn't important to him.

To be fair, anyone that is hugely successful is hardly a garden-variety example of their type. Lucky or not, I don't see LSI being a disqualifier for being a successful CEO (although many might argue that his leadership style is far from optimal for this purpose). I agree that leading small groups is typically more comfortable for LSI, but having a "general vision" to follow is not atypical (although this vision might be adopted from someone more visionary, possibly EIE).

[Aramas]

I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.

If you ever watched Dexter, you would discover that Beta Js follow rules obsessively to hide their crimes.

[nanashi]

I don't think this is a fair assesment or understanding of Te at all.

As a Te lead I don't care about rules or follow them at all. That means I don't make my own rules nor do I care about society's. I do agree that Te egos involved in business (whether myself or other Te egos I have known) are likely to rely on external measurements such as benefits (at least in part) to gauge how much potential is being developped by their business undertakings. But to be fair I've seen EIEs and LSIs do this too - neither the Te egos nor the Ti valuers I have worked with reduce the success of the business simply to money. I do see EIEs follow the rules of society( at least laws and regulations) in an almost obsessive compulsive sense.

LSIs do seem to follow a more invisible set of rules though, yes.

It's interesting how I heard other LSIs, I do think it was Myst but also squark, say something similar about Te being more "conforming" in a general sense, which sounds similar to your remark about Te playing by society's rules and "common sense". Perhaps it appears that way, I think LIEs and LSIs deeply misunderstand each others use of logic, lol.

so very much this

[Zero]

LSI don't want to operate under the rules of the society or rules of "common sense" (these are all mostly Te), instead following his own personally created rules (Ti) and making his underlings follow them without question (creative Se).

That's not true, common sense is, if anything, more like Fe. In the description of LIE is written: "they live by their own principles which don't necessarily match those of the societies they live in but have been formed according to the LIE's own observations and experiences"
Which has been absolutely true in my personal life as well

I have a feeling that you haven't read a real description about LIEs yet:
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Rational-ENTj

[Ave]

And he’s too inventive and too random and undisciplined to be LIE.

LIE-Creative is inventive and fairly undisciplined - they differ from ILEs though in that they try to apply their invetions and/or through active experimentation. ILEs are more likely to play around with their understanding of things in their mind, it seems.

LSI-Creative is also an odd one. They are the LSIs who invent contraptions and weird shit. I once saw this LSI dude in a documentary that made these bdsm machines. Unfortunately I didn't register his name - nor that of the documentary. He seems to fit the bill.

I don't think Musk is LSI simply because his vision is too broad - LSIs rarely become CEOs of large tech companies because from what I can tell they are better at leading small groups. Ne pols can be creative(sometimes very much so) but don't seem to have a "general vision" of things.