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Thread: Arrogance of the Hidden Agenda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    When I was dating an IEI, it definitely seemed that he was more "arrogant" about his Ti than I was, and the same was true of me with Si, yet his Si was better than mine and my Ti was better than his, lmao. He felt very proud of himself and got "puffed up" every time he managed to understand something. We would have the longest conversations about socionics, enneagram, etc, and it all fell on deaf ears until he managed to put some of the pieces together, and suddenly it fascinated him and he became absorbed by it, but not on a very deep level. For me, it's neither as hard nor as meaningful. For him, it was the same with Si. Cooking, cleaning, and all that other fuss wasn't as bothersome or exhausting as it is for me, but it wasn't regarded with all that much reverence. It was just seen as necessary drudgery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Both the HA and Role are 2D functions. I have not yet noticed any real difference in terms of how well these work. How did you figure your Ti was better than his? (Also assume similar enough intelligence levels here...)
    EII-Ne is less good at Si than IEI-0 or -Fe (it would make sense if he was anything like that. With the Ni subtype of IEI, both your Si would be the same in strength though, theoretically).

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    I am so annoyed by people mistyping their HA function as their lead function. Again, I believe this boils down to the "Arrogance of HA".

    Like, several LIE guys will want to mistype themselves as SLE. Just because SLE sounds more like something they'd like to be, especially in a society that encourages men to act like SLEs.
    E8 LIE guys in particular want to be more like/see themselves to be SLE (it does not help the SLE descriptions are hardcore E8), so they'll see themselves as being strong Se lead while they are obviously Se HA. Honestly, this can seem pathetic to me very quickly.

    "I totally use force."
    "SLEs are supposed to be the best leaders. (I think I am the best leader.) I must be SLE."
    ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    EII-Ne is less good at Si than IEI-0 or -Fe (it would make sense if he was anything like that. With the Ni subtype of IEI, both your Si would be the same in strength though, theoretically).
    Oh yeah individual differences can be it, I just wouldn't want to generalize to types that both have 2D Ti like the post seemed to.

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    Kids Turned Out Fine Chae's Avatar
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    Very interesting discussion. What I observed in the posts here, I feel that it makes a difference between whether the HA is extroverted or introverted. If it's introverted, it annoys YOU. If it's extroverted, it annoys EVERYONE. So the sense of inadequacy has a direction

    Example from my grammar school days, I frustrated most of my fellow students by taking my E3-ness to an unnecessary maximum ("I have to be the best out of this bunch, I have to impress them, I have to beat everyone, I have to look richer, I have to be the most attractive one, I have to be strong and hardcore to survive this, I have to, have to, have to!") with Se applied in the wrong places and no expertise to back it up, add my social blindspot and you can imagine utter chaos. I only noticed that in hindsight. I wasn't really the best, the prettiest, the richest, the strongest. If one IS rich etc deliberately showing it off wouldn't even be necessary. I was so caught up in my relentless drive to move things back then, just annoyed by the actual repercussions that I was unable to connect to my behavior. I didn't acknowledge that my Se was so petty, merely bothered that my efforts were mocked.

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    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Both the HA and Role are 2D functions. I have not yet noticed any real difference in terms of how well these work. How did you figure your Ti was better than his? (Also assume similar enough intelligence levels here...)
    I would say the Mobilizing function is definitely more able in general than the Role function. Even if not more inherently skilled, you could say it's something people try way harder at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Very interesting discussion. What I observed in the posts here, I feel that it makes a difference between whether the HA is extroverted or introverted. If it's introverted, it annoys YOU. If it's extroverted, it annoys EVERYONE. So the sense of inadequacy has a direction
    Doesn't apply to me. Unless you mean that I'm aware and willing to admit that my Ni (that's my HA) is weak and that it'd be only wishful thinking imagining it's stronger like in ego. But it doesn't really annoy me or make me feel inadequate usually, it's just a fact. Doesn't affect self-esteem in that way you seemed to imply with the word usage.


    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I would say the Mobilizing function is definitely more able in general than the Role function. Even if not more inherently skilled, you could say it's something people try way harder at.
    I can't easily make myself try at it - I can't "load" the Ni process to work on it consciously. This fits with it being in Vital track. I can do this with the Role however. With the HA, I can sometimes try doing so by withdrawing for a short time from the ongoing situation and try to focus into "nowhere". Then it can give me something, surprisingly well sometimes, but it always feels like a tenuous connection, not something I could ever call having control over the process.

    What I can do about my HA beyond that is, just spend time on topics that would need it or just are very Ni but then it's still just about getting lucky in getting it to give me something. So it's hard. Slightly easier than with Fe, sure, but still, not having much conscious control over it does get in the way (without me even noticing).

    Typically it plays out like, it connecting the (Ni type of) dots only much later than I would have liked it to, but again this is something I don't even notice, only in retrospect, very much in retrospect. But when it does end up connecting them it often feels awesome Maybeee that's when it gets arrogant for a second hahah.

    Also, the very Ni topics I sometimes read about or talk about... I can sometimes realize I'm able to apply some things from them later in my life, kinda seems like Ni norms of sorts lol but again it just feels like me getting lucky with fitting them to the situation/issue. At least the first time I manage to do it it feels that same tenuous connection I mention above. I can get more practice in some cases when the specific type of situation is repeating - but this of course shows how it isn't as adjustable an understanding than with the strong functions for sure.
    Last edited by Myst; 12-25-2016 at 09:59 PM. Reason: qu

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    Just because SLE sounds more like something they'd like to be, especially in a society that encourages men to act like SLEs.
    I know what you mean but I think sensing is a pretty female trait actually (and so is perceiving), and so if anything society encourages men to be LIE. (especially in america, 99% of the media is LIE males trying to supervise IEI to me.)

    Oh and I laugh at the pua advice that tells men that all they need to do is just 'lift weights bro' yeah... no. That will just make a bunch of gay dudes chase them more then women really. If you don't have a certain normative logical str8 male (with a lot of dark traid aspects) brain to go with the brawn...it's not gonna impress females much. At very best you'll ascend to alpha negative... which is still lower than alpha positive. (and alpha negative is a shaky road where although it's very pleasing sexually, all it takes is a few well timed insults for an alpha negative man to be knocked back down into beta cucksville.) Females do preselect big dicks though.


    Last edited by BandD; 12-25-2016 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post


    I know what you mean but I think sensing is a pretty female trait actually (and so is perceiving), and so if anything society encourages men to be LIE. (especially in america, 99% of the media is LIE males trying to supervise IEI to me.)

    Oh and I laugh at the pua advice that tells men that all they need to do is just 'lift weights bro' yeah... no. That will just make a bunch of gay dudes chase them more then women really. If you don't have a certain normative logical str8 male (with a lot of dark traid aspects) brain to go with the brawn...it's not gonna impress females much. At very best you'll ascend to alpha negative... which is still lower than alpha positive. (and alpha negative is a shaky road where although it's very pleasing sexually, all it takes is a few well timed insults for an alpha negative man to be knocked back down into beta cucksville.) Females do preselect big dicks though.
    Lol fuck guys with dark triad aspects, I mean I couldn't care less about them, not "fuck" in the literal sense...

    Preselecting big dicks? How? A beta NF friend of mine claims she can guess dick size from the face of the guy very accurately. I have no idea if that's true lol, I most definitely can't guess at it.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post


    I know what you mean but I think sensing is a pretty female trait actually (and so is perceiving), and so if anything society encourages men to be LIE. (especially in america, 99% of the media is LIE males trying to supervise IEI to me.)

    Oh and I laugh at the pua advice that tells men that all they need to do is just 'lift weights bro' yeah... no. That will just make a bunch of gay dudes chase them more then women really. If you don't have a certain normative logical str8 male (with a lot of dark traid aspects) brain to go with the brawn...it's not gonna impress females much. At very best you'll ascend to alpha negative... which is still lower than alpha positive. (and alpha negative is a shaky road where although it's very pleasing sexually, all it takes is a few well timed insults for an alpha negative man to be knocked back down into beta cucksville.) Females do preselect big dicks though.

    Yeah, LIE's definitely seem to hold more real power in society than SLE's imo. Rationality and logic is what the world is founded on.

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