Jordan Peterson

[lynn]

You didn't like the Te

Well Petersen is definitely Alpha male by some general standards, considering everything he has achieved, his personal career & projects, his fame and money etc. You can do a lot worse than him.

That's why I was at first inclined to type him LIE. However, I could also see the arguments for Se-polr / LII and in that case he indeed could call himself an Alpha male of some sorts. anyways he's too .. far.. removed..from ..reality.

[Tallmo]

That's why I was at first inclined to type him LIE. However, I could also see the arguments for Se-polr / LII and in that case he indeed could call himself an Alpha male of some sorts. anyways he's too .. far.. removed..from ..reality.

He is extremely engaged in his life and projects. So I don't really agree with you saying that he is removed from reality (not in that sense). Also publicly going against the current trends in media etc. puts a lot of pressure on him. And he seems to be able to handle it so far. I type him LIE -creative subtype. A very Te person.

[lynn]

He is extremely engaged in his life and projects. So I don't really agree with you saying that he is removed from reality (not in that sense). Also publicly going against the current trends in media etc. puts a lot of pressure on him. And he seems to be able to handle it so far. I type him LIE -creative subtype. A very Te person.

I meant in the sense that if you state something with conviction it doesn't make it more true. It's like he's taking everything from his headspace as really broad generalisations but isn't really perceptive of lived reality / experience of actual people (& probably cut off from his own lived experience as well). What else he does in his life and whether he's successful with it, I don't know and I also don't care.

[Tallmo]

I meant in the sense that if you state something with conviction it doesn't make it more true. It's like he's taking everything from his headspace as really broad generalisations but isn't really perceptive of lived reality / experience of actual people (& probably cut off from his own lived experience as well). What else he does in his life and whether he's successful with it, I don't know and I also don't care.

Stating things with conviction doesn't make them more true, I agree. But one is still allowed to do that. I think he is simply so personally engaged in the discussions. I don't see how that is wrong because he presents arguments also. He is taking great pains to communicate his views on different platforms so I one can't really blame him for not taking debates. All these TV debates were his views are scrutinized etc.

[lynn]

Stating things with conviction doesn't make them more true, I agree. But one is still allowed to do that. I think he is simply so personally engaged in the discussions. I don't see how that is wrong because he presents arguments also. He is taking great pains to communicate his views on different platforms so I one can't really blame him for not taking debates. All these TV debates were his views are scrutinized etc.

Of course, it doesn't make it less true either but that's not really the point. I mentioned it initally, but I removed it to shorten the sentence.
/just to clarify

[lkdhf qkb]

EIE-Ni who thinks he has a clue about Ti.

Last year I was at a library with a LSI friend. When I picked up '12 rules for life', he looked at me for a moment and then said :
"First rule in life: think by yourself and don't live by someone else's rules"

[lynn]

I’m curious about what you said “delusional ramble...barely listen” what about this video for example did you find to be like that?

From his disconnected train of thoughts, I barely understand the main point. People working 80 hours = are people in power (alpha men as stated in the title?) ... They are very important.. They sacrifice so much. They keep society RUNNING!!! Women don't want that actually. Because no one wants to have a position of power. Then you suffer so much, ... no one likes you... Then he talks about raising kids and women's responsibilty in this. Boys failing in school and men not liking to work. Poor women can't raise children now, and that's their primary desparate desire at the age of 30, except those where something's wrong with their perspective, they should change their mind.

I really don't get it ???

[andreasdevig]

Se valuing to the extreme. Everything he says is Se valuing.

"Accept the terrible responsibility of life with eyes wide open."
"The truth is something that burns. It burns off dead wood. And people don't like having the dead wood burnt off, often because they're 95 percent dead wood."
"If you don't stand your ground, then all that happens is people push you backwards."
"Power is competence."
"And you call me a fascist? You sanctimonious prick. If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily."
"And saying 'that's not communism' which is the sort of saying that should immediately get you punched in the nose hard enough to knock you out, as far as I'm concerned."
"Violence keeps society civilized"

[lkdhf qkb]

@lynn lol I also didn't get it.

What he said in 5 minutes could be condensed into "High level management positions require sacrifices that few people are willing to accept, I'd assume women would be few because they are expected to bear children, yet I see more and more of them in my classes". I'm clueless about how he gets to sell his nonsense as insight. He must be a marketing genius

[Nobody]

He seems to present a lot of personalized Ti things that he considers revelations, but is also very EJ in presentation and very passionate about getting other people to buy into them. He also seems to have dialectical-algorithmic style, rather than vortical-synergetic, if you believe the cog styles are onto something. Most people seem to agree that he has a lot of intuition involved in his thoughts. EIE makes sense to me. But do LIEs relate to him though? EIEs? I'd prefer not to get into DCNH 64 types, since the forum has a hard enough time with 16 types, but I suppose I have no control over that either (nor would I want to anyway I guess).

[Joe Biden]

I really don't get it ???

Maybe you're just dumb ??

[Joe Biden]

@lynn I'm clueless about how he gets to sell his nonsense as insight. He must be a marketing genius

I'm clueless as to why you're criticizing JP while you're sitting at home in your underwear being completely useless in society

[lkdhf qkb]

I'm clueless as to why you're criticizing JP while you're sitting at home in your underwear being completely useless in society

I never said I'm better than him, please don't mix things up. I do find his advice pretty useless for myself, but a lot of people buy his books, so I guess useless is relative. I might have made a blanket statement about his "nonsense" but that wasn't meant as a put-down of him or people who like his work. I don't think he's a useless person.

Why do you make personal attacks about this? If you like what he's done, feel free to share, but stay civilized.

[Chin Diaper 007]

I buy EIE typing. He lived pretty similar life when he was young if we compare him to Mr Hit-ler. Hanged around aimlessly in public places, pulled his shit together later. Both gave passionate speeches and made peeps drool after the ideology via the message. Only the context and details are bit different.

[Alive]

LIE-C. come on guys, it's not that hard.

[Aylen]

I buy EIE typing. He lived pretty similar life when he was young if we compare him to Mr Hit-ler. Hanged around aimlessly in public places, pulled his shit together later. Both gave passionate speeches and made peeps drool after the ideology via the message. Only the context and details are bit different.

After I did Jordan's and Ra's HD charts awhile back, I lean toward EIE now too.

Jordan's chart



Ra's chart



Both Manifestors (so was ******)

Historically, Manifestors were the rulers and law givers of the world. So many of our habits and accepted generalizations are created by and fit for Manifestors. You are the ones - the only ones - who really can go out and make things happen. As children this happens as soon as they can reach the doorknob. You are designed to be an unstoppable force that will not allow anyone to control you. If there is something you want, go and get it, as it will not come to you (be it a job, partner etc.) - just listen to your authority. You have the potential to shape the world the way you want it to be. On an energy level you have a very deep impact on others, but your aura doesn't communicate as much as the auras of other types. That's why people often don't know what to think about you. It creates un unconscious fear in them and they try to control you from the moment you were born. This leads you to your predominant negative feeling – anger. The secret of success for you lies in communication. The way to operate correctly for you as a Manifestor is to inform. Inform those that are going to be impacted by your actions about what you're going to do. In this way, others will not be so intimidated by you. They may actually help you and put their energy into whatever it is that you have initiated. Then you can find what you are looking for - PEACE.


Without informing, you will get resistance every step of the way. That's why many Manifestors, already in their childhood, resign, after being punished over and over again by parents, teachers and others. They give up their manifesting powers and concentrate on going through life, just getting by. They may feel ignored, or like they've been run over by a truck. The last thing they would want to do is to inform others. Everybody else is in their way all the time, so the idea of making it easier for others by informing is unacceptable. Yet it's the only way out of the circle of control and resistance. (While still living with parents, Manifestor's strategy is actually different - they need to ask for permission.)

Both Heretic Investigators 5/1

5/1

Heretical
Investigator


These people are often our leaders, generals and gurus. They are natural leaders. Their personal nature is very private, but in times of need they are good at finding solutions for organizations, governments and society as a whole. Others have the expectation that these people have the answers, and if they don't deliver a practical solution, their reputation is ruined.

Ra

the splenic Authority: my instinct decides

As a splenic being, you are instinctive; you feel what to do here and now. Instinct is an intelligence that is instantaneous and absolute. It tells you… but never repeats; don’t ask it again! What it says is right… for now; don’t follow it if you do not act right away. The proper use of your splenic Authority requires that you never wait after it delivered its guidance. Splenic people tend often to wait for the last minute to act, as their instinct cannot decide before action must take place. It is so hard for them to function correctly in a society that pressures these beings to decide way before the occurrence… Are you splenic? tell people that your surest answer will come at the time the thing has to be done; before, your word could be retrieved

Jordan

the emotional Authority: my feelings decide

The most powerful Inner Authority there is!… emotions, feelings, moods… very powerful and always changing, never reliable as they follow an up and down wave of hope and pain. There is no truth in the now for emotionally defined individuals: waiting for the morrow and letting the night pass by is so essential in their case, especially when they have to meet big decisions. Emotional Authority takes over all the other 4 when it is activated in your Design. It is never 100% clear, and can never fully satisfy your mind, as this later searches for the absolute certainty; most of the time, emotional clarity comes at the time the wave reaches its starting point again.

Actually 5 base types @falsehope and keep in mind socionics/MBTI looks just as ridiculous to those who do not resonate or understand the systems. I have not seen one person who put the effort into understanding the HD system deeply who didn't find it pretty insightful but it takes time ( I have been back and forth with it for a couple years. The amount of information was overwhelming but the connections are there) Not everyone is drawn to the same things. If you make a religion out of any one system you are pretty much trapped within the confines of your own belief systems.

http://www.wisdomkeepers.net/the-four-types.html

Edit: HD system is very complex so I only shared a tiny fraction of what I discovered in their charts in that post. It took awhile to explore all the elements of both their charts that made me decide they were the same type. I am sure if I were inclined to I could assign a DCNH type to each of them now.

[DrDonkeyBallz]

EIE

[Aylen]

LIE-C. come on guys, it's not that hard.

So basically you can't make a case for base Te without DCNH... Is that what you're saying?

This is the wrong way to type someone. DCNH should come after the base is established. How is he logic > ethics?

[Chin Diaper 007]

After I did Jordan's and Ra's HD charts awhile back, I lean toward EIE now too.

Nice lotsa hard work. I just assumed that after Hi-Ho-tler moved to dark side of the moon and was getting pretty pissed at being stuck so he snatched Jordan Peterson's soul and here we are. Yet another dead end. Wannabe artist politician->suicidal, wannabe philosopher psychologist ->drug addict.

[Tallmo]

I've been thinking LIE but now when I see all those EIE typings I'm starting to change my mind...

I think C subtype is obvious though, and xIE type

[ashlesha]

I've been thinking LIE but now when I see all those EIE typings I'm starting to change my mind...

^

[Alive]

So basically you can't make a case for base Te without DCNH... Is that what you're saying?

This is the wrong way to type someone. DCNH should come after the base is established. How is he logic > ethics?

I never think about the DCNH subtype first. he sees individualism as the most important thing, to the point that he absolutely despises beta collectivism. he constantly criticizes Beta NF SJW culture. many people compare him to Ayn Rand, another LIE. a lot of his arguments are based on studies and statistics. he almost always wears a suit and rarely changes his appearance. blows my mind that so many people see him as EIE when he debated Zizek, who is an actual EIE. it really blows my mind that most people type him as EIE considering that he is such a public figure with strong values. and sometimes I wonder why I even bother to research people for hours when there's rarely an agreement on even obvious types.

[Alive]

(I wrote the message on my phone so my anwers is kind pof a mess. this website is a pain to use)

[Alive]

I would say most people are probably not looking particularly deeply into a person, unless it catches their interest. So perhaps superficial typing
nothing necessarily “wrong” with it, I do it myself. But yeah.

can you expound more on “beta NF sjw” some people seem to think the phenomenon is quite Fi

maybe at a later time. I'm busy for the whole weekend and writing messages on my phone is just annoying. (that's the reason why my answer sounds so direct)

[Subteigh]

Oh...BTW, JP does mention how he sees himself in BIG 5. I forgot about it, but here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2jCv9A3AuA, which roughly and simply comes out to

JP seeing himself as
*high in extroversion
*higher in neuroticism
*relates a lot more to agreeable
*conscientious
*higher in openness

And um, I recall a thread on typology central discussing what each MBTI dimension would correlate to for BIG 5. Being that - https://personalityjunkie.com/08/per...iggs-big-five/


So roughly, that would make him out as ENFJ in MBTI. And I know there is disagreement about how Socionics and MBTI differ or are similar, but I'm from the point of view that the extroverted types correlate fairly well compared to the introverted types, mainly because of how MBTI describes the J/P dimension.

So just an "analysis" or whatever, but I find that kind of interesting, given the argument that 4 out of the 5 dimensions of BIG 5 are actually Jungian dimensions, whether we are talking about Socionics or MBTI.

.

[DrDonkeyBallz]

SJW culture is not beta since beta is collectivist and betas want everyone to be moving in a similar direction. Fi is tied to individualism and Te is there to "protect" that individualism.

Jordan Peterson talks about the reality of the collective myths underpinning our human narrative, and suggests a direction for society to move towards as a whole

[timber]

I just don't see gamma here.

What he is doing is not really Te, its Ti with a ton of intuition. Any Te you see in him in a reflection of his Canadian upbringing. Everyone here has a no-nonsense, get it done type of attitude and approach to life. Could be a part of why per capita we have the highest wealth middle class on the continent?

Ti + Ne + Ni with lots of suggestive sensing.

[timber]

Dostoyevsky comes to mind after a couple hour binge. Maps of meaning in context of Fi, white personal ethics, the nuances of inter-personal relationships with the creative use of Ne - connections and hidden meanings, often using Christian religion and current scientific discoveries, in regards to personal potential and growth. Both the individual, her family, and society at large.

The individual is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people. This makes the individual seem "judgemental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If he has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth.

The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.

The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him.
He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.

That he is often emotional is superfluous information. Sensitive individuals with high empathy are often this way. Especially if they have some history to draw from and remain open to displaying feelings. For a professional psychologist and counsellor, this is not a bad trait to have. In fact its even helpful.

["Having so many people come into the office, man, its like being in a Dostoyevsky novel. Its so cool. You get to see the entire gamut of humanity right in front of you. And the things people say and are, its so interesting." - Petterson]

["Not living up to your potential is a crime" - Petterson]

The kinaesthetic also fits.

I have heard it said INFj is the auditor of the entire Socion. Finding meaning and sense and enjoyment from Petterson does not say anything about your own type. His messages are Universal, and would apply to anyone anywhere. I just can't see anything else fitting in light of much of what he talks about and thinks and feels.

[timber]

Further, in regards to EIE typings, consider the following statement:

as an ignoring (7th) function (ESE and EIE)

This is manifested as a skepticism about, or reluctance to decide on, the status of a deeper personal bond in a relationship between two individuals in the absence of signs in external emotional expression that should reflect that status. For instance, the individual will be inclined to regard as "loveless" or lukewarm the relationship of a couple who do not obviously display their mutual affection and remain rather subdued in their emotions in the presence of others.
The individual understands discussions or explorations of one's own inner feelings regarding other individuals but finds them less interesting and relevant than those focusing on one's emotional state in the same situation.

This is NOT how Jordan thinks. Actually, he welcomes discussion, and analysis of deeper personal bonds between people in context of their status as a relationship.
-Dads are this way with their sons and daughters.
-Because she is his wife this means x.
-An employer has unspoken responsibility to his employees for y.
-The family unit is powerful and complex
-And so on.

All these statements are also examples of field white ethics. Who relates to who and why and what does that mean for all involved. Regardless, or even including, the external emotional expression that follows.

Finally, Jordan is all about exploration of his inner feelings regarding other individuals and society and clearly finds those discussions meaningful and worth his time. Worth the majority of the time, actually, if you view his video material at length. He will also discuss his emotional state, as well as focus on them, but I think it is part of the package more so with the exploration of one's inner monologue, dialogue. ect.

I do not think Fi is in his ignoring function block.

As always I could be wrong.

[StarPath]

EIE-Ni

[Alive]

found this short clip that pretty much clearly showcases dominant Te

https://youtu.be/1UhdQud45p4

I work 14 hours a day, I can't rest, I need to work as efficiently as possible

also shows his rationality and talkative EJ temperament. I wish typing people was always as easy as this

[Uncle Ave]

SJW culture is not beta since beta is collectivist and betas want everyone to be moving in a similar direction. Fi is tied to individualism and Te is there to "protect" that individualism.

Jordan Peterson talks about the reality of the collective myths underpinning our human narrative, and suggests a direction for society to move towards as a whole

While I think it's reductionistic to say that a sociocultural phenomenon is this or that type, I do think there are alot of beta NFs pushing SJW culture. The movement is very collectivistic.

That said, obviously not all beta collectivism is gonna take on the cultural mantle of SJW culture. It can take any form, really. You also have betas like Macron or Anton Lavey who believe/d in individualism in their personal values, but speak more like leaders of collective movements than what I believe socionics speaks of when it speaks of individualism, which is, like you say, people doing their own thing.

As far as Peterson goes, I do think LIE is likely.

[squark]

I don't think the man is logical, and I think he has Si polr. The drugs, his atrocious diet that he couldn't even tell was making him sicker (probably still doesn't know it) just a total disconnect from his own body.

[Northstar]

While I think it's reductionistic to say that a sociocultural phenomenon is this or that type, I do think there are alot of beta NFs pushing SJW culture. The movement is very collectivistic.

I doubt it, the SJW competition of who is being oppressed the most doesn't fit the beta quadra, it's pretty much the opposite.

[asd]

While I think it's reductionistic to say that a sociocultural phenomenon is this or that type, I do think there are alot of beta NFs pushing SJW culture. The movement is very collectivistic.

That said, obviously not all beta collectivism is gonna take on the cultural mantle of SJW culture. It can take any form, really. You also have betas like Macron or Anton Lavey who believe/d in individualism in their personal values, but speak more like leaders of collective movements than what I believe socionics speaks of when it speaks of individualism, which is, like you say, people doing their own thing.

As far as Peterson goes, I do think LIE is likely.

I have been thinking about this, and although it is quite Fi in value (respecting people's identity and so on - esp. as concerning LGBTQ population), the actual activism itself may be influenced by Se, Fe, etc. very likely. EXIs typically - even if they advocate - do it in a more quiet, subdued way, (and by that I mean individually instead of via mob) and then they withdraw (at least EII lol). and yes, the identity piece itself is Fi, but when it affects you personally, you don't have to be Fi valued to value it.

[squark]

The interview with McConaghey was good. Interesting, and brought up point about people not living up to their own message that some folks were complaining about in that other thread re Jordan. Peterson says that in his lectures he's talking to himself too. When he says "we" he really means we, and includes himself. Anyway, I liked it, good stuff from both of them, and it was a contrast watching them together. Jordan just seems so sad, so sad and serious the way he comes across.

[DrDonkeyBallz]

The interview with McConaghey was good. Interesting, and brought up point about people not living up to their own message that some folks were complaining about in that other thread re Jordan. Peterson says that in his lectures he's talking to himself too. When he says "we" he really means we, and includes himself. Anyway, I liked it, good stuff from both of them, and it was a contrast watching them together. Jordan just seems so sad, so sad and serious the way he comes across.

i think depression often helps people see reality for what it really is, which then feeds back into the depression in a vicious cycle unfortunately

[Nobody]

12 MORE RULEZ