View Poll Results: type of Jordan Peterson?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    4 5.26%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    2 2.63%
  • LII (INTj)

    19 25.00%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    5 6.58%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    17 22.37%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    7 9.21%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    1 1.32%
  • ILI (INTp)

    6 7.89%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    14 18.42%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    3 3.95%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    1 1.32%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    4 5.26%
  • EII (INFj)

    2 2.63%
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Thread: Jordan Peterson

  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    You are being dishonest with yourself, but I am not fooled.
    Considering that you believe I've said something I never did, I understand why you have that impression.

    Apart from that, I regret that I was as rude to you as I was and if I had understood from the beginning what was happening in the discussion I probably would have acted differently, so I apologize for that.

  2. #1002
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    Apology accepted for that.

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    Dis boi LII.

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    @Singu

    Yeah I agree with you on this one. I like much of what Jordan said, but he's being an ass on the Trans thing. He doesn't get some universal free pass with everything just cuz he was a momentary fresh breath of air.

    It's all about basic respect and calling people by what they prefer to be called as, if your real name was Bob but I called you John instead at first you might laugh but if I kept doing it, and doing it in a serious/condescending way not even as a joke, you would get pissed off and want me to stop doing that, of course you would. Now apply that to how trans people feel when you don't call them by their preferred gender pro-noun. The more you knoooow!

    Though... it needs to be about the specific individuals, something like this is still too petty for me to think it needs to be some objective overly serious Te law that everybody fights over or sth. Like trans people calling non trans people 'cis gendered' is also stupid as there's no self-reference to it. Also objectively acting like we should all use 'Zir' everywhere is of course ridiculous lol, but if a trans person simply wants you to refer to him as a 'her' when that's how they see themselves... I don't see why it's so hard not to just command to their wishes. You are even allowed to think it's silly/ridiculous/delusional, but it's about basic respect and professionalism. We used to have a really cool Fi valuing trans member on here wonder what happened to her...

    Many gay men go back and forth between calling each other 'she' or 'he' because we're two-spirits/feel both like a guy and girl at the same time anyway. We usually don't call very masculine gay men a 'she' because that would be logically stupid, but any one that does obviously have some 'girl power' in them is fair game. Which is not surprisingly, most faggots. Stereotypes are based on truth.
    Last edited by BandD; 11-25-2018 at 06:05 PM.

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    @Singu

    Yeah I agree with you on this one. I like much of what Jordan said, but he's being an ass on the Trans thing. He doesn't get some universal free pass with everything just cuz he was a momentary fresh breath of air.

    It's all about basic respect and calling people by what they prefer to be called as, if your real name was Bob but I called you John instead at first you might laugh but if I kept doing it, and doing it in a serious/condescending way not even as a joke, you would get pissed off and want me to stop doing that, of course you would. Now apply that to how trans people feel when you don't call them by their preferred gender pro-noun. The more you knoooow!
    The more you know... indeed.

    Peterson has been beyond clear that he specifically opposes using-the-wrong-pronoun as a legally (be it by state/nation law or by school policy) punishable act. This is a separate issue from basic respect. Peterson opposes the 'wrong-pronoun is violence' outcry and the policing of speech, which is a far greater threat to 'basic respect' than the issue that you brought up.

  6. #1006
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    Hm. Well, I don't think you're gamma @FarDraft, just my opinion of course, but I think this may be a case of calling whatever matches your own values "gamma values" when that's not the case. Others in the thread made a much stronger case for beta values. Again, one has to consider that it could be another instance of "my values are quadra values" of course. But, such is the forum, get past a page or two and it just repeats and repeats and repeats. Probably because nobody reads the other pages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    You're correct in saying that I haven't read too many of the other posts since my intention isn't to debate but to explain my opinion. I'm willing to change it should others have better reasoning or a stronger case like you say. I'll probably read more anyway.

    You're also free to have your opinion that I am not gamma. Many have that opinion, as far as I'm aware, yet I wholly disagree based on my knowledge of myself and my knowledge of the system. I assume you think I'm alpha, notably LII. It's certainly a possibilty, but one that I've stopped considering since I don't think it fits better than gamma NT.
    Well, I don't actually want to get into arguing socionics either. I only brought it up because I keep seeing threads going in circles with the same things being rehashed and then shot down, and think people could save themselves and everyone else a lot of time if they read the whole thing first. As for what I think about your type, I think you're Ti, but not necessarily LII, and Fe is more about emotional energy (reading and influencing it) than about being part of a group or group dynamics (which is social instinct imo.) But I'm definitely not going to argue that I know you better than you know yourself or any crazy thing like that.

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Fair enough. Out of curiousity, which Ti type do you think I am?
    Your shoe size indicates LII. I think I mentioned that already.


  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    And your dick size indicates S vs N, amirite?
    No, I think both are statistically orthogonal.

    *EDIT*

    Hey, @FarDraft. I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. Sorry if it came off that way. My apologies.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-26-2018 at 10:37 PM.

  10. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    I see some similarity between myself and Jordan, honestly.
    Not saying this to be abrasive or anything but for example I see zero similarity between myself and Jordan Peterson, especially his latest form. It's like he comes from a different dimension of life. There is a distinct removal from practical life in him, which I rarely see in Te dom types.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Really? I can agree with that statement for some of his opinions, notably his opinions about religion, but for many of his political arguments, it seems like he's a breath of fresh air in a PC, ideological society. But I do live in Canada, so that could be a part of it. It's insane here, especially on university campuses.
    Where I live PC isn´t especially a thing, but I am mostly referring to his life outloook, it seems to me that he is really dectached from day-to-day workings of people. Some other people on this forum disagree completely with my outlook on him anyway, so it´s just my 2c.
    Another member simply said that I live in a more backward society and thus don´t see what Peterson is talking about.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Honestly I'd say
    LIE-Ni so/sx
    Enneagram difficult imo , 9?

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    9w8 so/sx for enneagram but I don't know much about him

  14. #1014
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    I think it would be weird to say Peterson is a Te/Fi valuer when he's made a name for himself by dramatizing and playing to the current political landscape. He seems to put a lot of value in how he logically concludes things, whether it's how to structure your life, social contracts/structures, or worrying that people might force him to call them a certain name, as if that would be as bad as someone coming into your home, raping your family and emptying your bank account or something.

    He seems to really value his Ti and I think it has made him a lot of fame and money, so good for him I guess.

    But then again some people on here truly think Donald Trump is Fi valuer, so lol, why not.

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  16. #1016
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    Okay, so honest question,

    Do most people really fall into camps of thinking men are responsible for all the wrongs in the world or that feminists want to dominate and put down men or that men just need to stand up for themselves and be men or something?
    I guess I forget that I'm not really normal and don't relate with the average person. I'm probably SO last enneagram and Fe-PoLR, for what that's worth, but I just don't understand how at the end of the day people really take these ideas with such veracity. I grew up liking Daria and feeling like society is pretty dysfunctional to begin with and find it a little strange how people get so riled up over what seems like really nothing to me. Or maybe it's just that the normals feel like they have lost the Marxist idea of agency they grew up believing they had and want to lash out at everyone and everything because of it. They are afraid of becoming Daria.

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    I think it would be weird to say Peterson is a Te/Fi valuer when he's made a name for himself by dramatizing and playing to the current political landscape. He seems to put a lot of value in how he logically concludes things, whether it's how to structure your life, social contracts/structures, or worrying that people might force him to call them a certain name, as if that would be as bad as someone coming into your home, raping your family and emptying your bank account or something.

    He seems to really value his Ti and I think it has made him a lot of fame and money, so good for him I guess.

    But then again some people on here truly think Donald Trump is Fi valuer, so lol, why not.
    I don't think he "dramatizes" the political landscape. It makes sense for Gammas to be concerned about the real-world consequences of ideas.

    Actually, you could say his main thesis is that ideology (principles) are what lead people to do unspeakably horrible things as in Nazism and Communism. There's an interview where he's being interviewed by an apparent LII or Ti valuer and she comments that it's not easy to categorize what he believes - it's sort of a piecemeal taken from different sources. He replies that following a (consistent) ideology is "predictable".

    Some consistent threads to what he believes are 1) you have to take personal responsibility for what happens to you and 2) hierarchies should be based on competence rather than mere power-seeking. Even his attitude towards religion is pragmatic. These things weren't apparent when I looked at him initially but they do point to Gamma. I'm not sure whether LIE or ILI but I think he is one of the two.

    You have a good point about his interest in breaking down belief structures (and other things like analytic psychology / the humanities which are culturally more Beta) - I'd say it's unusual for Ti ignoring and less so Ti demonstrative.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I don't think he "dramatizes" the political landscape. It makes sense for Gammas to be concerned about the real-world consequences of ideas.
    Perhaps. But I just get a strange sense that social issues are super important to him and that he really values his interpretation of them and seems to think it's super important to influence them as well. Is it normal for Gamma to put so much effort into doing that, investing their lives into interpreting and manipulating the social sphere?

    Actually, you could say his main thesis is that ideology (principles) are what lead people to do unspeakably horrible things as in Nazism and Communism. There's an interview where he's being interviewed by an apparent LII or Ti valuer and she comments that it's not easy to categorize what he believes - it's sort of a piecemeal taken from different sources. He replies that following a (consistent) ideology is "predictable".
    Well I'd agree that he does try to take the social critic approach. But he does often make arguments where he does stand for something, such as there being natural hierarchies that form in society or his belief in social contracts and such. A lot of his conclusions about his social critiques are in response to liberal ideas that he doesn't like or agree with.

    I mean didn't he become well-known because he didn't like the possibility of having to call transgenders by certain pronouns? Because he believes it goes against his idea of society or something... He very much seems to value this idea of a social organism over an individual one. It's probably a central theme to all his arguments. It seems like that is Fi devaluing or at least Gamma-Fi devaluing.

    Some consistent threads to what he believes are 1) you have to take personal responsibility for what happens to you and 2) hierarchies should be based on competence rather than mere power-seeking. Even his attitude towards religion is pragmatic. These things weren't apparent when I looked at him initially but they do point to Gamma. I'm not sure whether LIE or ILI but I think he is one of the two.
    I guess I just don't see how this couldn't apply to all the quadras though. Taking personal responsibility for the things that happen to you is part of growing up and being mature and responsible. Having hierarchies based on power-seeking would just lead to all sorts of problems. I don't actually believe betas, for example, are against those ideas.

    Actually I usually hear from LIEs that they have no problem taking a job they might not be competent in because it's a way to learn and grow from mistakes or become competent at it over time. Most companies operate this way where once you become competent in a job, you move on to something else you aren't good at and have to become competent at it. It requires a lot of extemporaneous thinking. And it's not uncommon for old problems to resurface when somebody takes a new job then. But now that I recall I think Peterson said he was against that because it's a bit dysfunctional or something (I could be wrong though, I only followed him for a little while out of curiosity). And he's right then, but part of growing and learning is being incompetent and making mistakes and fixing them and doing better on the next try. I think some LIEs might not appreciate the whole competence thing keeping them from getting and succeeding in more rewarding or lucrative jobs (or even being able to try for that matter).

  19. #1019
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    Just putting this out there, some people care about Reinin and others don't, but as I read over Reinin's aristocrat/democrat dichotomy, it becomes immediately obvious that Peterson falls into Aristocratic at the very least.

    Aristocrats


    1. Inclined to perceive and refer to other people, and themselves, by means of groupings and categories that they see these people belonging to; these groupings may be created and defined by the Aristocrats themselves, rather than be already existing and socially defined ones.
    2. Their initial attitude towards another person is influenced by their attitude towards the grouping they see this person belonging to.
    3. Tend to attribute common qualities to members of same groupings, and define such groupings by these same qualities.
    4. Inclined to refer to others using expressions that mention generalized features of their groupings.


    Democrats


    1. Perceive and refer to other people, and themselves, primarily describing individual, personal qualities: frank, trustworthy, generous, unimaginative, lighthearted, good-looking, etc. which are generally not in connection to any grouping to which they might belong.
    2. Form their relationships and attitudes toward other persons based on their own individual characteristics, rather than taking into account which grouping these persons fall into or their own relationships with the members of these circles and groupings.
    3. Not inclined to perceive people as representatives of a certain grouping that supposedly possesses qualities inherent to people who comprise it.
    4. When referring to others, not inclined to use expressions that mention the generalized features of the grouping or categories that these people belong to.

  20. #1020
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    Jordan Peterson is a cult.

  21. #1021

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Just putting this out there, some people care about Reinin and others don't, but as I read over Reinin's aristocrat/democrat dichotomy, it becomes immediately obvious that Peterson falls into Aristocratic at the very least.

    Aristocrats


    1. Inclined to perceive and refer to other people, and themselves, by means of groupings and categories that they see these people belonging to; these groupings may be created and defined by the Aristocrats themselves, rather than be already existing and socially defined ones.
    2. Their initial attitude towards another person is influenced by their attitude towards the grouping they see this person belonging to.
    3. Tend to attribute common qualities to members of same groupings, and define such groupings by these same qualities.
    4. Inclined to refer to others using expressions that mention generalized features of their groupings.


    Democrats


    1. Perceive and refer to other people, and themselves, primarily describing individual, personal qualities: frank, trustworthy, generous, unimaginative, lighthearted, good-looking, etc. which are generally not in connection to any grouping to which they might belong.
    2. Form their relationships and attitudes toward other persons based on their own individual characteristics, rather than taking into account which grouping these persons fall into or their own relationships with the members of these circles and groupings.
    3. Not inclined to perceive people as representatives of a certain grouping that supposedly possesses qualities inherent to people who comprise it.
    4. When referring to others, not inclined to use expressions that mention the generalized features of the grouping or categories that these people belong to.
    He's also a clear Negativist. He's such a glass half-empty person.

    Positivists

    1. More inclined to optimize already functional systems of things and processes.
    2. "This glass is half-full"; "We have already collected $438,000 for that project."
    3. Usually more complimenting than reprimanding
    4. Socially and intellectually more trusting.
    5. Explains what things are (irrationals) or should be (rationals).

    Negativists

    1. More inclined to solve problems in systems of things and processes.
    2. "This glass is half-empty"; "We need $62,000 for that project."
    3. Usually more reprimanding than complimenting.
    4. Socially and intellectually more mistrusting.
    5. Explains what things are not (irrationals) or should not be (rationals).

    Negativist Types: LII (INTj) SEI (ISFp) SLE (ESTp) EIE (ENFj) ESI (ISFj) ILI (INTp) IEE (ENFp) LSE (ESTj)

    Positivist Types: ILE (ENTp) ESE (ESFj) LSI (ISTj) IEI (INFp) SEE (ESFp) LIE (ENTj) EII (INFj) SLI (ISTp)


  22. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Actually I usually hear from LIEs that they have no problem taking a job they might not be competent in because it's a way to learn and grow from mistakes or become competent at it over time. Most companies operate this way where once you become competent in a job, you move on to something else you aren't good at and have to become competent at it. It requires a lot of extemporaneous thinking. And it's not uncommon for old problems to resurface when somebody takes a new job then. But now that I recall I think Peterson said he was against that because it's a bit dysfunctional or something (I could be wrong though, I only followed him for a little while out of curiosity). And he's right then, but part of growing and learning is being incompetent and making mistakes and fixing them and doing better on the next try. I think some LIEs might not appreciate the whole competence thing keeping them from getting and succeeding in more rewarding or lucrative jobs (or even being able to try for that matter).
    Yeah...I feel like the guy is some nitty-gritty critical perfectionist. He even said that about himself. My approach is exactly like the one you mention.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah...I feel like the guy is some nitty-gritty critical perfectionist. He even said that about himself. My approach is exactly like the one you mention.
    My approach is the same as FDG's. Claim you can do something new, then figure out how to do it well or expect to get fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Actually I usually hear from LIEs that they have no problem taking a job they might not be competent in because it's a way to learn and grow from mistakes or become competent at it over time. Most companies operate this way where once you become competent in a job, you move on to something else you aren't good at and have to become competent at it. It requires a lot of extemporaneous thinking. And it's not uncommon for old problems to resurface when somebody takes a new job then. But now that I recall I think Peterson said he was against that because it's a bit dysfunctional or something (I could be wrong though, I only followed him for a little while out of curiosity). And he's right then, but part of growing and learning is being incompetent and making mistakes and fixing them and doing better on the next try. I think some LIEs might not appreciate the whole competence thing keeping them from getting and succeeding in more rewarding or lucrative jobs (or even being able to try for that matter).
    I think this could be more of an enneagram thing. Type 5s would be less likely to do something they feel less competent at since their fear is to be incompetent. So they would learn as much as they can about the job prior to engaging with it. LIEs tend to be 8s, 3s, or 7s, which don't have this fear and are often motivated by exactly the opposite. A 3 would want to prove that they can do something with minimal training, a 7 would be be very open to try new things and develop multiple strengths, and an 8 would want to take on a challenge. A developed 5 would be more like an 8 in this sense.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019

  25. #1025
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    I am starting to realize why Peterson is so divisive: causing either hate or admiration. Partly because he does it intentionally to provoke drama (Fe?) and partly because he delves into a particular kind of thinking that can be refuted (Ti?).

    So I lean towards Fe/Ti valuing for that reason, but I cannot pinpoint his type yet. As for his political views, they are deliberately obfuscated by him by calling himself a classical liberal. It is such an outdated term that could apply to centrism or center-right conservatism.

    So due to this obfuscation, you get people dead certain he is a centrist or a center-right conservative because his views do oscillate a bit. I don't really care what his political stance is anymore, I think he makes a lot of good points, but flubs on other points, which is inevitable with his style of thinking and speaking.

    My thoughts with him are to take him with a grain of salt, but don't throw the baby out of the bathwater either. Unfortunately, people either idolize him and put him on a pedestal or they demonize him and look at him as worse than trash. Which are extreme and arbirtrary ways of looking at him.
    Last edited by Raver; 12-10-2018 at 10:06 PM.
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  26. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I am starting to realize why Peterson is so divisive: causing either hate or admiration.
    SX problems
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

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  27. #1027
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    He's such a lying, piece of shit grifter that I don't even give a fuck about his type anymore.

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    I find he's a classic Sx/So Type 1.

    SO first individuals (especially So/Sx, because Synflow) almost never cause as much diversion as SX first (especially Sx/So, because Contraflow) individuals naturally do.

    (The exception being certain So/Sp 8s.)
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    Ah, good ol' Jordie P. Paragon of Gamma NTs internet-wide.

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    Peterson is so incredibly Social. I'd even argue that he's last in Sexual. If one thinks that Peterson is a revolutionary for his cause in the sx/so sense, then that isn't the case. Yes he's leading the group who identifies with him, as a Social would be want to do, but Peterson actually wants to preserve the status quo, not tear it down or bring forth a new way of thinking. He's divisive because he chose to stand in the way of progress (not that he didn't have a point too in some respects). He is explicitly against radical revolutionary movements and sees this as dangerous for the well-being of society. This is far more consistent with so/sp, not sx/so, if you believe him to be contraflow, which I agree he is. His fears and neurosis, as well as his gifts and strengths in another sense, all revolve around Social, while devaluing changing norms, or showing no nuance, in the Sexual realm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Peterson is so incredibly Social. I'd even argue that he's last in Sexual. If one thinks that Peterson is a revolutionary for his cause in the sx/so sense, then that isn't the case. Yes he's leading the group who identifies with him, as a Social would be want to do, but Peterson actually wants to preserve the status quo, not tear it down or bring forth a new way of thinking. He's divisive because he chose to stand in the way of progress (not that he didn't have a point too in some respects). He is explicitly against radical revolutionary movements and sees this as dangerous for the well-being of society. This is far more consistent with so/sp, not sx/so, if you believe him to be contraflow, which I agree he is. His fears and neurosis, as well as his gifts and strengths in another sense, all revolve around Social, while devaluing changing norms, or showing no nuance, in the Sexual realm.
    He has sparked controversy in a way that is unusual for So/Sp 1. So/Sp 1 is more often found in Law and similar pursuits. They are more stable and less "impassionate" or socially disruptive, due to the desire to be part of the group.

    Type 1 is inherently "social" in its focus on morality, just like Type 3 is inherently "social" with its obsession of achieving what is deemed as successful in their society. Type 2 is also inherently "social", in the way they are focused on giving to others. All these types will seem more "social" than they really are, even when SO last.

    Obviously Jordan Peterson is "social" - he's a type 1, plus has a strong social instinct. However, how he has sparked controversy and a "movement"/following of some kind, with a fan base, is much more typical of Sx/So than So/Sp. The Social arena seems to be his area of confidence, which is more typical of a good second instinct. (There's always a bit of self-consciousness surrounding the first instinct.)

    There are many videos of his on attraction, relationships, and dynamics between the two sexes. Also, the focal point of his controversy - genders - ultimately is an SX subject after all. In contrast, So/Sp tends to be more concerned with issues like environmentalism/climate change, having their focus on SP.
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    There is nothing sexual about Jordan Peterson.

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    You need to see it in the context of Type 1 as well.

    The idea of "Sexual" is mostly Sx/Sp 2/3/4, 7, 8, and often Se ego ("sensual", "physical", etc) Very different from Type 1.

    Sexual 1 is about "zeal", the passion for your moral causes. Jordan Peterson is known for shouting and even crying during his talks or interviews. He loses composure too often for someone who is supposedly So/Sp 1.

    Arguably, alongside 5, the Sexual 1 is one of the least outwardly "sexual" subtypes, for the 1 has strong ideas about what is appropriate or not, they are going to be self restraining and put their Sx energy into something they deem morally righteous.
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    When it comes to the argument that he spends too much time focusing on SO not to be SO lead: There are several So/Sx Youtubers who primarily focus on relationships, dating, or gender/sexuality issues. The second instinct is said to be "exhibitionistic" because often, it's more "free" (less neurotic) and a strength.
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    Here is the interview by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZYQpge1W5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Perhaps. But I just get a strange sense that social issues are super important to him and that he really values his interpretation of them and seems to think it's super important to influence them as well. Is it normal for Gamma to put so much effort into doing that, investing their lives into interpreting and manipulating the social sphere?
    It may not be super stereotypical but I wouldn't count it as evidence against Gamma.

    Well I'd agree that he does try to take the social critic approach. But he does often make arguments where he does stand for something, such as there being natural hierarchies that form in society or his belief in social contracts and such. A lot of his conclusions about his social critiques are in response to liberal ideas that he doesn't like or agree with.

    I mean didn't he become well-known because he didn't like the possibility of having to call transgenders by certain pronouns? Because he believes it goes against his idea of society or something... He very much seems to value this idea of a social organism over an individual one. It's probably a central theme to all his arguments. It seems like that is Fi devaluing or at least Gamma-Fi devaluing.
    Not wanting to be controlled by others is very Gamma I'd say. This was his objection to the law - that it's something that should be decided on a case-by-case basis, not required (Te > Ti).

    I guess I just don't see how this couldn't apply to all the quadras though. Taking personal responsibility for the things that happen to you is part of growing up and being mature and responsible. Having hierarchies based on power-seeking would just lead to all sorts of problems. I don't actually believe betas, for example, are against those ideas.
    I'm not saying that those things are exclusive to certain types, I'm just looking at what is most salient in a person's values and worldview, what they focus on and talk about the most.

    For example, I (and hopefully any other reasonable human being) would absolutely agree that taking personal responsibility is important. But am I going to write a whole book telling people to go clean their room and "get their life together"? No, because I don't use Se like that. The valued functions are what you tend to verbalize and criticize others for.

    Beta types do emphasize responsibility, but are more likely to emphasize structural problems in society, and de-emphasize the individual, though this isn't a hard rule.

    Actually I usually hear from LIEs that they have no problem taking a job they might not be competent in because it's a way to learn and grow from mistakes or become competent at it over time. Most companies operate this way where once you become competent in a job, you move on to something else you aren't good at and have to become competent at it. It requires a lot of extemporaneous thinking. And it's not uncommon for old problems to resurface when somebody takes a new job then. But now that I recall I think Peterson said he was against that because it's a bit dysfunctional or something (I could be wrong though, I only followed him for a little while out of curiosity). And he's right then, but part of growing and learning is being incompetent and making mistakes and fixing them and doing better on the next try.
    I'd have to hear the quote to see what you mean, it doesn't sound congruent with what I know about him.

    I think some LIEs might not appreciate the whole competence thing keeping them from getting and succeeding in more rewarding or lucrative jobs (or even being able to try for that matter).
    Less ethically aware Gammas might define competence as "the ability to get what you want" (e.g., money). But as always you have to go based on what is there, not what isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrickyDlck View Post
    He's such a lying, piece of shit grifter that I don't even give a fuck about his type anymore.
    Lying? How so? I don't agree with everything he says, but he at least seems sincere about what he believes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Caan View Post
    Okay, so honest question,

    Do most people really fall into camps of thinking men are responsible for all the wrongs in the world or that feminists want to dominate and put down men or that men just need to stand up for themselves and be men or something?
    The problem is that most of the initial goals of feminism have already been met (voting rights, equal pay for equal work), yet there is a growing faction whose complaints only increase in loudness as they get more of what they want. Moreover this has come at the expense of traditional values which IMO has hurt both men and women alike. (Not to mention the disadvantages that men have which aren't even allowed to enter the conversation.) It's a bit funny to see how Peterson has become popular for the most part for not being a crazy extremist, and yet also having some interesting things to say about the world. It just goes to show how low the bar for public discourse is right now - most people only get heard if they shout something incendiary at the top of their lungs.

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    So, Jordan Peterson is LIE and Elon Musk is LSI according to a number of people from this forum.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    For example, I (and hopefully any other reasonable human being) would absolutely agree that taking personal responsibility is important. But am I going to write a whole book telling people to go clean their room and "get their life together"? No, because I don't use Se like that. The valued functions are what you tend to verbalize and criticize others for.
    And do you think LIEs are especially interested in that kind of approach, getting your life together by cleaning your room (the answer is no, it´s even written in numerous descriptions)? Or are you typing him ESI?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    So, Jordan Peterson is LIE and Elon Musk is LSI according to a number of people from this forum.
    They think LSI for Musk mostly because supposedly Gulenko said so
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    And do you think LIEs are especially interested in that kind of approach, getting your life together by cleaning your room (the answer is no, it´s even written in numerous descriptions)? Or are you typing him ESI?
    LIEs are one of the more likely types to emphasize taking personal responsibility for your life and success, yes. The details of what they view as success and how to best accomplish that will differ. What's your typing of him?

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