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Thread: Courting an ISFj-ESI?

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    Default Courting an ISFj-ESI?

    A very shy Coworker is an ESI. Caught her staring at me a bunch of times and she always looks terrified after I catch her. This is new behavior after 5 months of making no eye contact, which I felt was a clue of her crushing because she refused to acknowledge me, only looked at me from the corner of her eye. She is shy so I tried not to crowd her and let her be. She has slowly been trying to flirt, and I am trying to be myself and let her get comfortable but she is very nervous around me, so edgy that she will often ignore me and back off, for days. I get very self conscious awkward flirting or none at all, but I can tell she is really trying. Her attraction is clear, but I would like perspective because she is terribly shy and I do nothing provocative, yet can't get her to relax and be herself. Very self assured around others, but she almost shuts down around me. When I come to work and see hers eyes darting when I look at her, I know there will be no interaction from her today, days when she is relaxed, I will flirt. Play it chill let her come around and get more and more comfortable? My instinct is to give her space, and I have made my attraction to her clear, a couple of bold flirty sexual compliments about her, that she liked, I really dig her, how should this be handled? 80% of the time she seems unapproachable, the other 20%, she is loose and will play the game. When it starts to get really flirty she shuts down and bails. Quite confident that she is ESI Se, very guarded and self contained and matter of fact, cordial but not timid around others, yet I can see a lot of vulnerability and emotion under the surface. PS.......she is mid 30's separated from the guy she married at 19, only man she has ever been with, so I know a lot of this is new and intimidating for her. Suggestions?
    Last edited by hatesyardwork; 09-15-2015 at 03:33 PM.

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    Hi, hatesyardwork.

    To start:
    How to get ESI: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...acting-an-ISFj
    In my very limited experience, this is pretty true.
    So is your comment about them shutting down for days after you approach them. You just have to wait patiently for her to come back. Also, they can't be tied down in any way. You have to just let them be free, and accept your time together as a plus.

    Real Life Examples of where you are going:
    I know of two marriages between an ILI and an ESI.
    In the first, my best male ESI friend from high school married an ILI. He is an astrophysicist and bikes, and she is a physical therapist, and they have been together for many years, have two kids. After he got married, he disappeared and I haven't spent enough time with him recently to know whether his marriage is good or not, but the ILI has put on a lot of weight, which indicates frustration to me.
    My other good friend, a male ILI, married an ESI-Se. They are coming up on eight years together, and they seem to get along best when they are planning and doing trips. Otherwise, there are some problems, mainly with him not showing much affection and her freely spending money that he is desperately trying to save, because he doesn't earn much. He recently told me he lives in fear of discovering another $10k of debt on a stealth credit card she took out without his knowledge. But they are pretty happy together most of the time, I think.

    Why you, as an ILI-Te, might want to think twice about this, even while taking into consideration the above two examples:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ns-IILI-ESI%29
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya
    Strat has been criticized on this forum for what has been claimed to be a misapplication of theory (?), but I like her articles, especially concerning Gammas (she is an ESI herself), for their conversational tone. She can go off the rails sometimes, but I really like most of her descriptions. I also find them to be very accurate, at least the parts near the beginning of her articles.

    What your SEE dual looks like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyFOfty5pmg
    She's attractive enough for me, but a little too extroverted. Plus, an SEE would not admire and need my LIE rationality the way she would yours.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-15-2015 at 05:02 PM.

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    Hmmm, mistaking the mirror of your dual as your dual may be a problem. Is there any good ways to differentiate between an SEI and and SEE when push comes to shove? I'm ILI myself but yeah, I don't need any of that bullshit in my life. The stealth debt thing is especially troubling. They called it "bondage" for a reason, debt=slavery and I really don't want my partner signing me up for that behind my back. Seriously, that's a low blow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'm ILI myself but yeah, I don't need any of that bullshit in my life. The stealth debt thing is especially troubling. They called it "bondage" for a reason, debt=slavery and I really don't want my partner signing me up for that behind my back. Seriously, that's a low blow.
    Playing a game with me to get attention does not sit well with me, but I don't think that is the case here. She is very sweet and not manipulative in the least. Just think she might not let me get close enough. When she blushes around me it seems like she shrivels to the size of a dwarf, her whole head sinks into her shoulders. It's not a game, she reeks of fear and it is so genuine that I find it endearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hi, hatesyardwork.

    To start:
    How to get ESI: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...acting-an-ISFj
    In my very limited experience, this is pretty true.
    So is your comment about them shutting down for days after you approach them. You just have to wait patiently for her to come back. Also, they can't be tied down in any way. You have to just let them be free, and accept your time together as a plus.

    Real Life Examples of where you are going:
    I know of two marriages between an ILI and an ESI.
    In the first, my best male ESI friend from high school married an ILI. He is an astrophysicist and bikes, and she is a physical therapist, and they have been together for many years, have two kids. After he got married, he disappeared and I haven't spent enough time with him recently to know whether his marriage is good or not, but the ILI has put on a lot of weight, which indicates frustration to me.
    My other good friend, a male ILI, married an ESI-Se. They are coming up on eight years together, and they seem to get along best when they are planning and doing trips. Otherwise, there are some problems, mainly with him not showing much affection and her freely spending money that he is desperately trying to save, because he doesn't earn much. He recently told me he lives in fear of discovering another $10k of debt on a stealth credit card she took out without his knowledge. But they are pretty happy together most of the time, I think.

    Why you, as an ILI-Te, might want to think twice about this, even while taking into consideration the above two examples:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ns-IILI-ESI%29
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya
    Strat has been criticized on this forum for what has been claimed to be a misapplication of theory (?), but I like her articles, especially concerning Gammas (she is an ESI herself), for their conversational tone. She can go off the rails sometimes, but I really like most of her descriptions. I also find them to be very accurate, at least the parts near the beginning of her articles.

    What your SEE dual looks like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyFOfty5pmg
    She's attractive enough for me, but a little too extroverted. Plus, an SEE would not admire and need my LIE rationality the way she would yours.
    Good stuff, I am quite familiar with my duels, they are hard to miss. They do however overlook me often. Socionics aside I just am very attracted to her, in a way that I can't ignore, on the inside and out, raging hard on for her, but she is busting my balls. Any advice from you is appreciated thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    Good stuff, I am quite familiar with my duels, they are hard to miss. They do however overlook me often. Socionics aside I just am very attracted to her, in a way that I can't ignore, on the inside and out, raging hard on for her, but she is busting my balls. Any advice from you is appreciated thank you.
    Hi, hatesyardwork.
    I think it is pretty easy to overlook your Duals. I did for many years. I just wasn't as mature (or aware) then as I am now. (Not saying I'm mature now, just more mature.) I basically found my male ESI friend (actually, he found me) in high school through having mutual interests. I mean, we were friends. Great friends, actually, and since I knew nothing about Socionics or personality theory, I assumed that kind of friendship was a once-in-a-lifetime deal. I didn't realize that it is possible to connect with a whole group of people (Duals) that way.

    With respect to ESI's as types, the two female ESI duals I've met in the last few years were also met through having mutual interests, and I liked them before I considered them Possible. That may have hurt me with one of them, because I missed her signals at first. (I mean, she's too young for me, but she seems to think otherwise, but she's too young for me.) So, from my very limited experience, I would say you should try to just be a friend first. ESI's have a core of doubt that constantly crashes against what must be your rock in the relationship. If you believe it's good, they may slowly start to believe it could be, too, but you've got to prove that to them every day. Really, read the articles in the links. Like you, I'm a skeptic, but I've found 99% of what the articles say to be true.

    They might sometimes appear to "reek of fear", since most ESI's are enneagram 6's, but it is anxiety, actually. They are just trying to minimize future problems, and that includes you, surprisingly. I look at a relationship as a chance to have fun and a better life every day with someone I like, and they look at it as a lifetime of service and obligation, so they are going to be very, very careful about who they get close to. They also are pretty much in touch with their sexuality (for sure more than you or I are), but shrink at the thought of pleasure. (Personally, I think this wait-and-see-if-he-can-be-trusted attitude keeps them away from SLE's, whom LIE's partly resemble, except for having more patience and foresight.) So, you've got to do your part to let them know its OK to get close to you. If they then think it is a good idea, they will approach. If they don't, they won't, and you just move on.

    And yes, they are very genuine. What else would you want?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-15-2015 at 09:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hi, hatesyardwork.
    I think it is pretty easy to overlook your Duals. I did for many years. I just wasn't as mature (or aware) then as I am now. (Not saying I'm mature now, just more mature.) I basically found my ESI friend (actually, he found me) in high school through having mutual interests. I mean, we were friends. Great friends, actually, and since I knew nothing about Socionics or personality theory, I assumed that kind of friendship was a once-in-a-lifetime deal. I didn't realize that it is possible to connect with a whole group of people (Duals) that way.
    I see you are ENTJ bro. Have you had a romantic relationship with your ESI duals? I find this women frustrating and mysterious. No question I am attracted, that's why I am still letting it play out. I usually say fuck it first sign of nonsense, but she intrigues me because I have seen bits and pieces of her when she is being herself, and that is idealizing her I suppose. I am not a doormat though, I will move on, but I see her everyday and she and the sexual tension is killing me. You are right about duals though, it all seem seamless somehow, you blink and realize you are in a relationship. Back to you........BoyGirl dual experience? It's great till they put on 40 pounds from the meals you are paying for.

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    Off subject. I know comic book affiliations and alliances can be a touchy subject with some people. I am not a fan of Marvel or DC. I was a Cracked/MAD magazine or Conan the Barbarian, Archie and Jughead type stuff was my allowance allotment. I am admitting ignorance when I say I don't recognize yours, or most comic avatars.........who is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I see you are ENTJ bro. Have you had a romantic relationship with your ESI duals?
    Yes, I am ENTj, and my relationships with the two female Duals are not sexual (although one would be if we were closer in age; at least I'd be OK with that, can't prove it from her side). I did have sex with a woman I retrospectively type as an ESI, but that is only because we got along so well. We played together very, very well, the sex was both hot and friendly. But as for a long-term romantic relationship, no. Just relationships where I feel attached to them. (I married an SLI about a year after the ESI and stopped looking until after my divorce this year.) I am presently looking, but I'm also choosy, and ESI's seem to me to be hard to find. It doesn't help that I work all the time. So, as I said earlier, my romantic experience with ESI's is limited. On the other hand, I get along great with the ones I know, and have every reason to believe that would continue to be true in a romantic relationship, assuming I can get the social things to match better than they have so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I find this women frustrating and mysterious. No question I am attracted, that's why I am still letting it play out. I usually say fuck it first sign of nonsense, but she intrigues me because I have seen bits and pieces of her when she is being herself, and that is idealizing her I suppose. I am not a doormat though, I will move on, but I see her everyday and she and the sexual tension is killing me. You are right about duals though, it all seem seamless somehow, you blink and realize you are in a relationship.
    Frustrating and mysterious is seriously not good. I was seeing an IEI for a while and thought exactly the same things about her. Found her Ni to be mysterious and super-attractive, along with her Fe, but her Ti and very weak Se was very frustrating. She couldn't implement my Te solutions to her daily problems, and she thought about sex a lot and never liked to actually have it. That was her, though. Not all IEI's are like that. But frustrating and mysterious is seriously not good. It indicates a severe mis-match somewhere.
    Incidentally, I truly doubt she is trying to bust your balls. I just don't think they do that. (The IEI totally did that, but it was to make sure she was with the "strongest" male. IEI's really are built for SLE's.) Instead, I think the ESI is probably just waiting to see if you are safe, but maybe I'm being naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    Back to you........BoyGirl dual experience? It's great till they put on 40 pounds from the meals you are paying for.
    Well, platonic boy-boy and platonic boy-girl (long-term) experience, so far.
    If you are worried about weight, look for the sports model, the ESI-Se. They're supposed to keep themselves in good shape, although your mileage may vary. In any case, putting on weight is a sign of frustration. Remove the frustration, and the weight will come off.
    But come to think about it, all the ESI's I know have good bodies and are reasonably thin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hi, hatesyardwork.
    I think it is pretty easy to overlook your Duals. I did for many years. I just wasn't as mature (or aware) then as I am now. (Not saying I'm mature now, just more mature.) I basically found my male ESI friend (actually, he found me) in high school through having mutual interests. I mean, we were friends. Great friends, actually, and since I knew nothing about Socionics or personality theory, I assumed that kind of friendship was a once-in-a-lifetime deal. I didn't realize that it is possible to connect with a whole group of people (Duals) that way.

    With respect to ESI's as types, the two female ESI duals I've met in the last few years were also met through having mutual interests, and I liked them before I considered them Possible. That may have hurt me with one of them, because I missed her signals at first. (I mean, she's too young for me, but she seems to think otherwise, but she's too young for me.) So, from my very limited experience, I would say you should try to just be a friend first. ESI's have a core of doubt that constantly crashes against what must be your rock in the relationship. If you believe it's good, they may slowly start to believe it could be, too, but you've got to prove that to them every day. Really, read the articles in the links. Like you, I'm a skeptic, but I've found 99% of what the articles say to be true.

    They might sometimes appear to "reek of fear", since most ESI's are enneagram 6's, but it is anxiety, actually. They are just trying to minimize future problems, and that includes you, surprisingly. I look at a relationship as a chance to have fun and a better life every day with someone I like, and they look at it as a lifetime of service and obligation, so they are going to be very, very careful about who they get close to. They also are pretty much in touch with their sexuality (for sure more than you or I are), but shrink at the thought of pleasure. (Personally, I think this wait-and-see-if-he-can-be-trusted attitude keeps them away from SLE's, whom LIE's partly resemble, except for having more patience and foresight.) So, you've got to do your part to let them know its OK to get close to you. If they then think it is a good idea, they will approach. If they don't, they won't, and you just move on.

    And yes, they are very genuine. What else would you want?
    Excellent post. All of it. I have read a lot on ESI in an attempt to understand what is happening. Anxiety is a much better description than fear. I keep reading that they are the most loyal yet untrusting of types, truly guarded, and like you said you have to work very hard and that actions speak louder than words. I am not good at this, I try to blow them away with knowledge. She is very careful, so she actually hasn't seen that side of me, our conversations rarely get to the point where my erudition kicks in. Perhaps I am hiding as much as she is. Much appreciated

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    They also are pretty much in touch with their sexuality (for sure more than you or I are), but shrink at the thought of pleasure
    Yeah no shit. As shy as she is, she often takes her coat off right in front of me with this whole "I want you to check me out, I know I look good." Just stands there letting me sink her in, slowly with her head in the air like a peacock.......wants me to look at her. It's very confident and provocative. It is usually after lunch and I can smell beer on her. Then she avoids me for 3 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    Yeah no shit. As shy as she is, she often takes her coat off right in front of me with this whole "I want you to check me out, I know I look good." Just stands there letting me sink her in, slowly with her head in the air like a peacock.......wants me to look at her. It's very confident and provocative. It is usually after lunch and I can smell beer on her. Then she avoids me for 3 days.
    What the fuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    So, from my very limited experience, I would say you should try to just be a friend first.
    This is probably the best advice you're going to get here. Not because there's no good advice, but just because this advice is really good.
    From reading about her behavior I'd suggest that maybe she doesn't have very good judgment. And maybe she's looking for something casual.

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    [QUOTE=Adam Strange;1102396]













    What your SEE dual looks like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyFOfty5pmg
    [/QUOTE @Adam Strange Thanks for this brother. Soft Core is vastly underrated as a masturbatory aid.

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    It doesn't sound like she's comfortable around you. Finding you attractive and being comfortable are two different things. She probably knows she's being pursued and is unsure how she feels, otherwise she would reciprocate the flirting somehow, even find a way to be near you.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    She probably knows she's being pursued and is unsure how she feels, otherwise she would reciprocate the flirting somehow, even find a way to be near you.
    I am not chasing at all, it's not my style. I just don't hide my interest. She does try to get close to me and tries to flirt, she is just terrible at it....A for effort, F in execution and quits. It's not me who is uncomfortable in my own skin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    It doesn't sound like she's comfortable around you.
    Yep. Shy or intimidated? I really just want her to relax, she's very tense around me, it's unattractive and she knows it. Holiday work party season is coming up. She's gonna get loaded and confess all her sins. I am a patient man.

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    My suggestion is be yourself and don't significantly alter your natural approach. If you really like her and already have a successful approach that got you some positive feedback then keep doing that.

    You can't be absolutely sure of her type but if she is stuck in the flirty, then aloof, phase and you want more ask her out. A "no" is better than speculating what is going on and being stuck in a loop. In my relationship with an ILI I had to take control and tell him we were in a relationship and then he was fine. That is not my natural way since I am used to being approached but he was so bad at making the first move and I got tired of waiting. It took me four shots to work up my nerve.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    My suggestion is be yourself and don't significantly alter your natural approach. If you really like her and already have a successful approach that got you some positive feedback then keep doing that.

    You can't be absolutely sure of her type but if she is stuck in the flirty, then aloof, phase and you want more ask her out. A "no" is better than speculating what is going on and being stuck in a loop. In my relationship with an ILI I had to take control and tell him we were in a relationship and then he was fine. That is not my natural way since I am used to being approached but he was so bad at making the first move and I got tired of waiting. It took me four shots to work up my nerve.
    Awww, that's cute. Your advice is also sound, flat out rejection beats speculation every time. Hard to work up the courage because rejection sucks but someone has to do it. If you like them, ask them out. If they say no then you can just switch to the next target. This might cause them to ask you out rather aggressively if they see you doing this though because of reasons, reasons that aren't very pretty. That damned monkey, the source of most all your relationship drama and issues .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    My suggestion is be yourself and don't significantly alter your natural approach. If you really like her and already have a successful approach that got you some positive feedback then keep doing that
    What I should make clear is she has initiated all this! I never chased and am still not chasing her. I am reacting to her overtures, trying to be a gentleman and not intrusive, she would not stand for that. She is very professional. If she hadn't begun speaking to me after a 5 month shunning I would still be blissfully unaware except for the fuck me glances I began to pick up on. I am trying to put at ease a woman who likes me by doing nothing, I am being totally reactive. I know she has to come around, not me.......I can tell she is determining how she feels. How patient should I be? My duals never fuck around, I usually avoid unexpressive women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post

    You can't be absolutely sure of her type but if she is stuck in the flirty, then aloof, phase and you want more ask her out. A "no" is better than speculating
    You are correct my best guess is ESI, just feels right. I made my interest known and clear, it's her move. I want her but I will not beg someone who is balking. Hence my original post.

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    You need to go balls deep brother, tell her how you feel.


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    You need to go balls deep brother, tell her how you feel
    Balls Deep? Is that a Russian expression? I am new to socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    A very shy Coworker is an ESI. Caught her staring at me a bunch of times and she always looks terrified after I catch her. This is new behavior after 5 months of making no eye contact, which I felt was a clue of her crushing because she refused to acknowledge me, only looked at me from the corner of her eye. She is shy so I tried not to crowd her and let her be. She has slowly been trying to flirt, and I am trying to be myself and let her get comfortable but she is very nervous around me, so edgy that she will often ignore me and back off, for days. I get very self conscious awkward flirting or none at all, but I can tell she is really trying. Her attraction is clear, but I would like perspective because she is terribly shy and I do nothing provocative, yet can't get her to relax and be herself. Very self assured around others, but she almost shuts down around me. When I come to work and see hers eyes darting when I look at her, I know there will be no interaction from her today, days when she is relaxed, I will flirt. Play it chill let her come around and get more and more comfortable? My instinct is to give her space, and I have made my attraction to her clear, a couple of bold flirty sexual compliments about her, that she liked, I really dig her, how should this be handled? 80% of the time she seems unapproachable, the other 20%, she is loose and will play the game. When it starts to get really flirty she shuts down and bails. Quite confident that she is ESI Se, very guarded and self contained and matter of fact, cordial but not timid around others, yet I can see a lot of vulnerability and emotion under the surface. PS.......she is mid 30's separated from the guy she married at 19, only man she has ever been with, so I know a lot of this is new and intimidating for her. Suggestions?
    Hi. I'm an ESI-Se ask me anything. Or at least I understand them enough due to my large body of research on them.
    Last edited by nondescript; 09-16-2015 at 11:56 AM.

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    [QUOTE]Hi. I'm an ESI-Se ask me anything. Or at least I understand them enough due to my large body of research on them.[/QUOTE @nondescript...............Thanks for the offer. Before specifics, anything already stated from this thread you can add some insight on?

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    These are some things that I observed about myself:

    -> I prefer easy, gradual approach
    -> I do notice the difference between words and so you should be careful which l word you use(Te DS)
    -> Even better, show affection with actions rather than words(Se-Ni valued involves a playful acts of dominance / submission)
    -> Introvert: there is ever present danger of basically escape(I once dropped out of college due to this )
    -> I also like to show affection with acts
    -> Time: if she is shy(I am not), give her time, but do acknowledge her interest
    -> ESI often like to passively watch with often strong internal feelings-meaning that they won't necessarily show their emotions beyond the darting eyes(first sign of interest 100% of time ). You know what I mean.
    -> I am actually very physical, but it's with permission only. Now, with permission on subject's side, not mine. Am I an SEE lol? Regardless, I don't like people barging on me and my territory.

    If you need anything more, feel free to ask.
    Last edited by nondescript; 09-17-2015 at 07:35 AM.

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    These are some things that I observed about myself:

    -> I prefer easy, gradual approach
    -> I do notice the difference between words and so you should be careful which l word you use(Te DS)
    -> Even better, show affection with actions rather than words(Se-Ni valued involves a playful acts of dominance / submission)
    -> Introvert: there is ever present danger of basically escape(I once dropped out of college due to this )
    -> I also like to show affection with acts
    -> Time: if she is shy(I am not), give her time, but do acknowledge her interest
    -> ESI often like to passively watch with often strong internal feelings-meaning that they won't necessarily show their emotions beyond the darting eyes(first sign of interest 100% of time ). You know what I mean.
    -> I am actually very physical, but it's with permission only. Now, with permission on subject's side, not mine. Am I an SEE lol? Regardless, I don't like people barging on me and my territory.
    Tod
    If you need anything more, feel free to ask.
    Thanks for the insight. I have seen all this behavior from her. I haven't interacted with her for about 2 weeks, because point 4 (escape) is her typical behavior. Today she handed out invitations for one of her kids birthday BQ to everyone but me. Loudly giving the invitations to everyone and then staring at me each time she handed them out. She wasn't even looking at the them while she was passing out the invites , just staring me down.......with a why haven't you chatted me up lately look. I'm officially as of this post, bored with her, I'm done.........she just wants attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    Thanks for the insight. I have seen all this behavior from her. I haven't interacted with her for about 2 weeks, because point 4 (escape) is her typical behavior. Today she handed out invitations for one of her kids birthday BQ to everyone but me. Loudly giving the invitations to everyone and then staring at me each time she handed them out. She wasn't even looking at the them while she was passing out the invites , just staring me down.......with a why haven't you chatted me up lately look. I'm officially as of this post, bored with her, I'm done.........she just wants attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.
    Yes, you like her, otherwise you wouldn't still be thinking about this. And she probably sees something in you that she likes, too. With respect to how you interpret her behavior, it is of course possible that she might be immature, but that could be true of anyone. Or she might just be shy and doubt herself. All of these are possibilities. But actually, I think you are running into something similar to what I ran into when I was seeing an IEI. I really, really liked her (even to the point where I was starting to think about what being married to her might be like, altho LIE's naturally spend a lot of their time considering possible future outcomes), and she really liked me, but she was expecting SLE behavior from me, and I was expecting ESI behavior from her, and when we didn't get the response we were expecting on a minute-by-minute basis, we each became offended and assumed that the other was fucking with us for some crazy reason. Behavior that one type sees as an invitation to the dance can be seen by another type as a slap in the face.

    Here is an example of how I might have responded to the above. She's passing out invitations to her kid's party. I like the girl a lot, she's really OK but shy, I can see she's not really crazy, there might be something there, and maybe she needs a demonstrable sign that says you're interested in her, or at least interested in doing something with her. I say, "So, you're having a party?......."
    Wait two seconds, "But you're not inviting me?" Let her think about this for a second, then smile and
    "Because you're afraid that if your kid sees my face, he'll be scarred for life?" and let her respond. She can then invite you, or not, but she will at least know that you want to go to her kid's party, and that you can joke around about it.

    The above response is only going to be appropriate if all the conditions above are met, and if you really do want to go to the party. On the other hand, she may be nuts, and stepping away from the car at this point may be the best thing you can do. You know her, you've watched her face, I haven't.
    I wouldn't be so quick to abandon a possible relationship with her, just because of an initial failure to start. It can take some time to get to a point in a relationship where each person trusts the other. From what you described, it has been many months of you two looking at each other from a distance, and just a day or two of misunderstanding. Personally, I would ask her if I offended her somehow, and if she then threatens you with a restraining order for talking to her, just move on. But otherwise, if you give it a chance (and if she's not nuts) by not writing her off, you might gain a real friend.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-19-2015 at 09:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Yes, you like her, otherwise you wouldn't still be thinking about this. And she probably sees something in you that she likes, too. With respect to how you interpret her behavior, it is of course possible that she might be immature, but that could be true of anyone. Or she might just be shy and doubt herself. All of these are possibilities. But actually, I think you are running into something similar to what I ran into when I was seeing an IEI. I really, really liked her (even to the point where I was starting to think about what being married to her might be like, altho LIE's naturally spend a lot of their time considering possible future outcomes), and she really liked me, but she was expecting SLE behavior from me, and I was expecting ESI behavior from her, and when we didn't get the response we were expecting on a minute-by-minute basis, we each became offended and assumed that the other was fucking with us for some crazy reason. Behavior that one type sees as an invitation to the dance can be seen by another type as a slap in the face.

    Here is an example of how I might have responded to the above. She's passing out invitations to her kid's party. I like the girl a lot, she's really OK but shy, I can see she's not really crazy, there might be something there, and maybe she needs a demonstrable sign that says you're interested in her, or at least interested in doing something with her. I say, "So, you're having a party?......."
    Wait two seconds, "But you're not inviting me?" Let her think about this for a second, then smile and
    "Because you're afraid that if your kid sees my face, he'll be scarred for life?" and let her respond. She can then invite you, or not, but she will at least know that you want to go to her kid's party, and that you can joke around about it.

    The above response is only going to be appropriate if all the conditions above are met, and if you really do want to go to the party. On the other hand, she may be nuts, and stepping away from the car at this point may be the best thing you can do. You know her, you've watched her face, I haven't.
    I wouldn't be so quick to abandon a possible relationship with her, just because of an initial failure to start. It can take some time to get to a point in a relationship where each person trusts the other. From what you described, it has been many months of you two looking at each other from a distance, and just a day or two of misunderstanding. Personally, I would ask her if I offended her somehow, and if she then threatens you with a restraining order for talking to her, just move on. But otherwise, if you give it a chance (and if she's not nuts) by not writing her off, you might gain a real friend.
    Space is best, you are correct........don't burn bridges, you never know what the future will hold. I am going to stop trying though, moving on. I still don't know what happened. "OK she likes me, I like her, here I go........." ?? I actually was too stunned by her invite drama to act in the way you advised. I was too WTF is this? It was weird dude everyone else was a prop and she was doing this weird dance with me in front of everybody. I don't even want to understand anymore.

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    New update. We avoided each other for the week, I sensed she wanted to approach but was pensive, her faced seemed guilty, so I said hi to her yesterday to break the stalemate . She dropped her head and started to say "I'm sooo....I cut her off and said no apology necessary, I was fine with her and touched her hand. She blushed and went back to work. Stared at me hard all day. Worked late and saw she had moved her car next to me in parking lot, she was waiting for me. I called to her she popped her head out the window and I opened her door and started kissing her. She told me "about time".......which I thought was very funny. Slow savoring type kisses and eye contact....... restrained but sexy for about 10 minutes, because I had to leave. Very good kisser, ...... I can't stop smiling. She's blowing up my phone already. I totally fell into this one, not at all how I had planned it.

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    If you need anything more, feel free to ask.
    I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye

    mauhahahahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye
    Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about .

    Crazy look...but was it sexy in its way?

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    [QUOTE]Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about [QUOTE]Of course I like her, but she doesn't communicate at all.

    Crazy look...but was it sexy in its way?
    Yeah it was............kinda 'look what you're missing" She's way more physical than she is verbal, Stares a lot, says nothing. I am going to leave her alone, I am shifting focus to people who want to spend time with me.

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    [QUOTE=hatesyardwork;1102814][QUOTE]Wow! You sound like you even care about her. One does not over react over things one does not care about
    Of course I like her, but she doesn't communicate at all.

    Yeah it was............kinda 'look what you're missing" She's way more physical than she is verbal, Stares a lot, says nothing. I am going to leave her alone, I am shifting focus to people who want to spend time with me.
    Yeah, forgot to add, I wouldn't act spoiled as her either. The "dance of an ESI"(true thing that!) is one thing, but she acts spoiled imo.

    At this point you'll need to confront her because she'll try to force confrontation. Just don't let it get hostile and go in peace(live and let and live, eh?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I saw something in her today that rubbed me wrong. She was indignant! Been flakey, passive and neurotic to me for months and now she is angry because I haven't spoken to her lately. It was so unattractive, childish, petty and WEIRD. Like hitting a guy because you like him and don't know what else to do. I don't know why she thinks punishing me with no invite is a good tactical mood. She likes me a lot, obvious. but she has no idea how to act like an adult. My attraction nosedived today. Meek, passive and angry. Where do I sign up? I am Fuckin done. I have a feeling that I will soon be posting HOW TO GET AN ESI TO STOP STALKING YOU. She had a crazy look in her eye
    fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime.

    The ESI sees reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics. The ESI is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people as well of himself. This makes ESIs seem "judgmental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If an ESI has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion, but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth.

    This is manifested as a very high regard for personal loyalty and integrity, both on the part of the ESI and of others towards each other and towards the ESI. The idea that he failed on that is extremely upsetting to an ESI, and such a suggestion, made by others, is seen as the ultimate insult if the ESI himself does not agree. The same goes for accusations of unethical or unprincipled behavior that the ESI regards as unjustified.

    ESIs are very often more confident of the status of a personal relationship - and of what it should be in their view - than other persons; therefore ESIs often take it upon themselves to establish, maintain, preserve, or change the status of such relationships.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime.
    thanks for this although as far as consistent behavior from a type perspective, she's all over the place , I am guessing ESI from past behavior with others, since she has always been a silent statue around me. In an odd way I thought she was being very direct in what ever it was see was trying to communicate, just don't know what it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    fwiw, the ESI I know irl would not play these types of games. That is the reason I mentioned it before. They are way more direct, ime.
    HAhahaha Aylen. Yeah, with *you*
    it cracks me up that you think that.
    In your case, okay. probably true.

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    Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Gamma introvert + Gamma introvert courtship is like the Cold War of dating.
    Indeed. Which one would be "the passionate couple"? Two extroverts, but which?

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