Oh Mystie! :)
Really? I thought I was Ti-Seeking.Originally Posted by Myst
Lol you clearly like Se. I'd say Si fail on the other hand
Seems merry/subjectivist Ti/Fe valuing as well.
Thanks for your input, and having the patience to read all that.
I'm glad I never done the 80q xD
SLE
Se is blatantly obvious. Also clear Ni valuing.
I agree with @Myst Subjectivist attitude shown in your responses to the Ti and Fi block questions. So merry type.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I am torn between SLE and EIE.
Some see stronger Se, others stronger Fe, from PMs, Chatbox and on here.
Thanks for your input
Lol. Yeah I still see you as Ti seeking, nothing against EIE in this questionnaire.
You should be happy that you only need to pick between the Beta extravert types by now.That's not so many options anymore.
Do you think the Se answers are stronger than the Ni ones? I had the impression of the Se being a bit overstated and simplistic - or perhaps just made very concise? - but definitely at least 2D and valued, yes.
I agree with this. Still, I wouldn't discount types that allow the expression of both the Fe and Se as strong IEs-namely ESE and SEE. But if I had to choose, I'd have chosen EIE-your Se seems kinda simple as myst said.Lol. Yeah I still see you as Ti seeking, nothing against EIE in this questionnaire.
You should be happy that you only need to pick between the Beta extravert types by now.
Do you think the Se answers are stronger than the Ni ones? I had the impression of the Se being a bit overstated and simplistic - or perhaps just made very concise? - but definitely at least 2D and valued, yes.
Yeah, I see no need to complicate the usage of Se in my life. I use it when I need to, and that's it.Lol. Yeah I still see you as Ti seeking, nothing against EIE in this questionnaire.
You should be happy that you only need to pick between the Beta extravert types by now.
Do you think the Se answers are stronger than the Ni ones? I had the impression of the Se being a bit overstated and simplistic - or perhaps just made very concise? - but definitely at least 2D and valued, yes.
^
Yeah, this time around I'd put my money on EIE. I see more complex use of Fe. Se seems rather inflated.
Thanks, anything else to add?
Yeah, go get yourself an lsi and see how it works out. If you ask me, there is absolutely no reason to doubt you are a Fe-dom.
*Goes to the shooting range.*
Have fun and best of luck!
You need to make the video-interview for normal typing.
Thanks
But I don't think that VI is always accurate. I prefer to answer questions anonymously, and get a best fit though that.
"Speech" methods are not accurate too: they are speculative and use ambiguous interpretation. Video will give nonverbal information about you - it's significant part of typing information. There are no proved "always accurate" methods. There are no even adequate methods wich give high match of types when different people use them. All methods give 30% match as maximum.
Typing by video and typing by questionaires give similar max match - near 30% and similar average match (video in last experiments on socioforum gave even higher average match). So you may think about nonverbal information is just another kind of typing info wich you did not tried.
As I've said - normal typing is impossible without video, as normally people type by videos or IRL. 50% of useful info about your type is missing still. Without 50% of useful info the probability of correct typing is lower too, maybe twice or more.
It's not obligate to say your name on video also. After some time (>= 1 week) you may remove the video from net.I prefer to answer questions anonymously
If you'll do the video - note this in thread's title or create new thread with such note like "Type me (with video)".
I repeat. To type normally you need video. It's not serious to be typed without nonverbal info about you.
If video typing admittedly doesn't have higher reliability than other methods then why recommend it over any other method?
Anyway, as for that 30% number, how much time and information are the typers allowed to have?
Yeah, to be honest, I think that you need a variety of different sources to back up your claim that lead back to the same source, because without valid proof, nothing is correct in a sense.
only took me 6 years...
What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
- I used to study as a Music student, but I graduated from that course in 2019. I’ve always enjoyed music, and deciphering it and creating it as well. I’ve enjoyed getting to know the insides and the outsides of music and the industry. Learning about music, discovering and exploring different aspects of music and what makes a song. I like the unlimited potential of music in general, and also learning about the origins of items a subject. I didn’t dislike anything about it, to be honest.
I don’t think that I enjoyed the nature of the classes being quite restrictive (in time, to make them all fit in during the day), and the fact that the grading criteria was easy to achieve, but some of the criteria was more strict than was necessary.
- At the moment, I haven’t taken on any music-related projects at the moment with other people for money, but I help my Mam’s business out part time 1-2 days a week. I help her with technical problems, and solving them. I also run errands and help her set things up between photoshoots. Basically, I am an assistant, and I like the flexibility of it. Call it nepotism if you want, but it’s easy to do because I can do all the things, and I can get some leeway and it has no time limit to do them.
I think the part that I dislike the most is the lack of organisation and stricture. I have to structure and organise my own tasks, which I don’t mind doing but I like knowing what I am doing ahead of time so I can focus on doing the job[s] properly.
What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
-Myself. Kidding. At the moment, I am into music (like I mentioned above) and creating/listening to it, reading books about various topics (non fiction and fiction), studying Socionics, fixing/modding iPods/electronic products, and writing stories mainly. Oh, also into studying Sciences and stuff about UFOs/Alien life forms.
I enjoy doing them because:
A) I enjoy creating music and structuring it and making interesting beats. I like to see what comes off them, and if any of it is useable. Experimenting with music and making something of it is good.
B) Reading books about various topics help me to understand various subjects and gain more knowledge of them, and reading fiction shows me what not to/what to do to engage people within my story, and gives me an idea on how to structure it.
C) Socionics is an interesting system to study and is a step up from MBTI (yeah, yeah I know, that’s a debate for another day). I enjoy taking apart, studying and trying to make sense of the system. I like to find things to talk about and discuss with other people as well, concepts such as DNCH, Model A subtypes, the different types in arc system etc. I don’t necessarily agree with them all, but I think that it’s fun to discuss it.
D) Writing stories is a good way to learn things, bring concepts to life and create something that helps you make sense of the world in a way too. If I have a story concept/idea, I want to expand it into a whole story/short story and a part of the story universe I am creating at the moment.
E) I like to study the sciences to make sense of the world around me, and to have a reason for why things are the way they are. I also like to use them to affirm theories, ideas and concepts that I may have already thought about before.
F) The alien thing, for me could be a link to the origin story, and the origins of mankind. It’s not as crazy as people think, but it’s also not what they think it is. Aliens aren’t just grey and green men from another galaxy probing people. Aliens are also demons, and people from another dimension. Anything that is an “Unidentified Flying Object” comes under that umbrella term, such as weather balloons. Do I believe it all? Probably not, but I find it interesting knowing that other people believe that sort of stuff, and it’s fun to decipher and make sense of it all. And see what contradicts what, and see/discover the reasons why people believe what they do.
What are your values, and why?
- I have no idea. I’ve never really thought about it in depth, but I think that the last time I wrote about values, I put something about honesty, productivity or something? To be honest, I never really thought about those things “in depth”, and I don’t intend to really examine them. I think that answer was a bit of a placeholder, but I don’t know what my values “really” are, within the context of this question, but I also do think that people’s “values” and “interests” shift a lot, depending on who they are associated with and what they are into at X point in time. For that reason, I don’t really know what I value concretely because it’s always shifting on a spectrum of sorts.
Describe your relationships with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
- Honestly? I don’t really have a deep relationship with my friends or family in depth. I don’t think that I want one too, or care much about having one at the moment because I don’t think that it would work out in the long term. Most of my relations in my life are/have been transactional (‘I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine..’ kinda ordeal), but I think that’s in part from growing up in a heavily Gammified household, and having working parents.
- As for the friends thing, the pandemic has made it hard to go out and do things with other people. Have some fun, so at the moment, I haven’t really been in contact with any of them. It’s been a while since I’ve been with a “friend”, so I find the rest of the question hard to answer.
What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
- Hm.. good question. I think that a having a load of idealistic ideas that aren’t balanced out aren’t healthy. When people talk about “what do you look for in romance/friendships?” a lot of it is unhealthy idealism to an extent. A lot of places, such as Tinder and the media perpetrate these ideals and brainwash people with them. As in, they need to have X qualities, based on what X finds good, or what moneymaking company finds good etc.
- To be honest, though, I don’t think about that a lot. It’s not something that is on my mind most of the time (I have better things to do, like fix things, or go study something), but I suppose that if I did have to put my idealistic hat on and list some things off the top of my head, I’d want someone who is (for both “friends” and “romance”): Sensible, loyal, adventurous, enigmatic, into theories, who can have a good time and can do things for me (not like a subservient person, but someone who is more submissive than me). Someone who lets me take control in a way. I do go with the flow, but I prefer to be one leading the flow. Surfing it, if that makes sense.
What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
- Conflicts? Oh yeah, I got into one with my Dad a few weeks ago. He was being annoying, and looking me to stream something for him at a certain time. I forgot about the time, and was a few minutes late. He was mad at me, and I set it up anyway as he was shouting and being grumpy. He got more aggressive, and I told him that I wasn’t going to set it up any further than a certain point until he calmed down. I asserted myself and waited for a few moments, and he calmed down so I finished setting it up.
- There have been a few on the server Discord. I’ve tried to calm people down, and get them to think about something else. I don’t care much for harmony, in terms of people getting along together on an individual basis, but when their bullshit interrupts the whole server because of their self-professed arrogance (when an argument between two people could also bring their stupidity to DMs) and this big dick need to ‘prove themselves right’, then I will distract them. If it’s not a means to and end and no-one is going to agree, I will, and tend to say something dumb/random to distract them and change the topic (works most of the time). And it gets them to move on, which is great.
- I think that, online, stupid arguments tend to happen the most because people are stupid in this way, and have an inherent need to be “correct” in their own minds and they disagree with people who disagree with them. It’s natural in a way, but it’s annoying. Battle of the egos, pointless.
What are your strengths? What do people like about you? What do you like about yourself?
- My strengths are that I am good at grasping conceptual things easy, good at making organisational systems, good at fixing things (handyman), somehow popular, good at entertaining people, creative (good at quickly coming up with things). I’m also good at pulling up solutions, connections and ideas from thin air, and having them connect/work.
- I think that people (for some reason) think that I am popular, good with people, am good at fixing things, good at cheering people up. Good at coming up with ideas and sorting them out.
- What do I like about myself? I don’t know, to be honest. I guess my creativity, and ability to make things. Make systems, make stories, make research files, make music. I can make anything, if I put my mind to it easily.
What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
- I can be lazy, late and kinda a bitch/cold at times to people.
- That I am lazy, late and kinda unfriendly at times xD
- I don’t really dislike anything, but I’d like more discipline.
In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
- I can easily do things, I have a lot of energy in a way and I can organise myself enough to do things and be there when things need done.
- I think I’d like more help in hm… I guess having a consistent routine during the week, regulation in terms of schedule. I have rough idea as of what I want to accomplish during a day, but no bodily routine if that makes sense?
What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?
- I like fixing things (to clear my mind), looking into and making sense of theories, creating music/stories.
- I dislike doing boring things that need to nowhere (i.e. menial tasks, circle jerking, mental masturbation for the sake of it).
What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future, and why?
To be honest, I’d like to make music/write stories full time. If that doesn’t work out, I’d at least like to survive the apocalypse as long as I can, judging by the current state of the world, that might be more likely. I need to actually finish a story. Or if I survive the apocalypse, I can get famous by writing a survival guide, or something with my own experiences in it. Joking aside, I am definitely focusing on my music and stories. I think I have a talent for creative things and the arts. I can also market myself, and make some money from it, create a buzz, make my own niche. Bbno$ it in terms of marketing and going viral.
If you won the lottery and didn't have to work anymore, what would you do?
Definitely make my own TV network, and make TV shows based upon my stories and present them in a more visual format so people can understand them clearer. I’d also buy/market/air other TV shows from other networks on it, especially on online streaming. And I would definitely make original content that interests people, rather than mundane shows (they can make the buzz, on the network by airing them. They would have their own channel. Originals and content people like would balance out the rest of the network).
What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
- I don’t know if people would find this “annoying” per-se, but I like people who have stories to tell and are interesting, ones that are quirky and can go on for hours. My Dad’s friend (I think he’s IEE) came over and started talking to us about his life and his stories. It was interesting to debunk, think about and discuss. Quirky people are endearing to me as well.
-Hmm… what traits annoy me? People who are arrogant and “experts” who are full of shit annoy me. Passivity annoys me (too much of it), too much kindness and niceness for the sake of it annoys me because it’s too positive.
What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)?
I like keeping it clean and minimalist. My bedroom has a map of the world on the wall, a bookcase, a table, a desk with an iMac on it. It has storage containers under the bed (one for my underwear/pants, one for my t-shirts, one for my electronic goods and one for miscellaneous storage).
How do you behave around strangers?
Just as I tend to do. What you see is what you get, after I warm up to new people.
How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
I got super saiyan on their asses… xD Jk. I usually ask them what their problem is, and try to resolve it. I try to keep them calm, but if that doesn’t work, I’m not prone to conflict and arguing/fighting it out to reach a conclusion.
Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?
A publishing house, or TV company (like I mentioned above) or a Music Production company. I would like to do it to have full creative control over my assets and I would like to be the owner of the company. I think that too many publishing houses and record companies rip off people and keep too much of the assets themselves, and it’s not really a fair/economic deal.
How do you dress or manage your appearance?
I wear comfortable clothes, clothes that fit well but are breathable at the same time. Practical clothes. I cut my hair when it needs to be cut, I trim my other hairs when I have to. I keep fresh when I need to go places. I just do what I have to do, in terms of appearance. I dress for the occasion, or the weather.
Do you like kids? Why or why not?
- I remember hearing somewhere that “kids aren’t humans, until they are adults” (don’t know where I heard that, or if my mind made it up, but I heard it somewhere, as a thought or some other format). I don’t think that’s inherently true (kids are humans, obviously), and neither is kids becoming adults when they are 30 (because their brains are at optimal development, supposedly).
- If we’re gonna define ‘kids’ as people under the age of 13 who need you to depend on them, then I guess they are alright in small doses. I don’t hate or like kids (like most people). I think that if I had to be responsible for one, for long periods of time, it wouldn’t go well because I don’t have many parental instincts. I don’t think people see those in me either.
In what situations or times in your life did you feel most fulfilled, and why?
Hmm… honestly? When I can have deep conversations and connect with ideas. Discuss ideas with people, discuss current events. Talk about developments, guess where things can go. I think that people in general don’t have enough of those, and don’t think enough about these things. About the future, and the unseen. Get the brain juices flowing. They kinda refresh me, and are easy to discuss. My brain goes on autopilot then.
Bonus Content (-insert a quarter to continue-)
[[[ SKIPPING END CREDITS - LOADING 100% ]]]
> _Click to continue
Round two has loaded… bringing you back to the questions:
How do you feel about attention? Do you seek it out?
Honestly? I don’t seek it out. It seems to find me, for some reason. I don’t usually care for it, but I suppose it’s nice to have at times, when you actually want it. When you don’t want it, it’s annoying as hell and you want everyone to go away.
How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
- This question is poorly defined. What kind of responsibility? Is this in a workplace? Alright, I’m gonna make a hypothetical situation then. A project in a workplace. I am in charge of the my part of the project, which is to organise and design a data system, for example. It’s my responsibility to manage it. First of all, I would break the project into smaller chunks, and work on those chunks. And I would plan and organise those smaller chunks and make them time-based (e.g. finish 5 parts by Friday, do the assembly by Monday etc).
- In my approach to the responsibility of this hypothetical situation, I would keep in contact with the rest of my team, and I would expect them to be taking responsibility for their side of the project (e.g. data collection, marketing, etc) in order for the project as a whole to keep maintained. If someone wasn’t pulling their weight, I would engage with them and ask them why. If they need help, I would help them IF they weren’t dicking about, and I could. Or else I would ask someone else to help them, if possible.
- If it’s all dicked up, then I’d get the boss involved to deal with them, if I couldn’t/they couldn’t solve it themselves.
If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what approach would you take, and why?
I wouldn’t raise a child, so I’m not going there (inb4: “DEAD, you made other hypothetical scenarios, why can’t you make one out of this?”) Because it’s not something that I will ever do, or see myself doing. I don’t think about it, and I don’t want to think about it. Waste of time.
Your friend bursts into tears. What do you do? How does it make you feel?
I would probably just look at them, and ask them “why are you crying?” And then ask them questions and try solve their problems Comfort them too, if they wanted it. I don’t feel anything to be honest. I’m just trying to help them out, analyse things. Make them comfortable and stuff. Move on after.
What is your biggest accomplishment?
I think that this is a question that’s best reserved for later life, but if you mean so far, I guess getting my Music degree and working towards that as a goal for four years, and doing what was needed to progress. It was worth it (and the best part? Tuition was all free, lol nah getting the degree was the end goal and I am glad I got it and didn’t give up along the way).
What was (or is) your high school experience like?
Boring as hell. Not like the movies. Did what I had to do to get by, enjoyed skipping classes, but still managed to get some GCSEs (somehow, lol). Could have picked better subjects, though, but I didn’t really have much of a choice. I did art because no written exams (just creative projects), did Geography (because I was kinda good at it) and French (because it was easy and the teacher was barely there) as my chosen GCSEs. I was also very good at English (yeah, I’m good at languages… are you picking the pattern up?) and Sciences were fun (specially the experiments). The rest of it was very “meh” and not of any note, or point of listing.
Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
- Once when I was eighteen, I was ill. I was stuck in a rut for several months, and watched TV during that time. I had no sense of direction, and was lost. Going nowhere. I had a lot of bad thoughts and they were controlling me. I was ill, and overweight (I mean, I still am, but I was more so back then). I couldn’t eat, or sleep properly and I was hallucinating demons and out of control mentally. I was basically going insane, to put lightly.
- My reaction was to: A) Wait it out (I knew it was gonna pass) and B) fight the root cause of the problem (the evil, intrusive thoughts). I let myself think them, and decided not to fight them off anymore (I was going to think them anyway). And I got myself stronger when the thoughts were defeated (through fatigue, prayer etc) by doing more things. Eventually, that summer, I got into a pretty good routine and I was very fit. Lost a good bit of weight.
- I managed to turn a negative situation into something good and productive in the end.
What is something you regret?
I don’t regret anything. The choices that we all make are for a reason. It all adds up and means something in the end. It was all laid out before, and nothing we do can change things. Having regrets is a waste of time because of that.
Who do you admire, and why?
Do I have to answer this question? I know you’re expecting me to put Mahmood, or BBNo$ here, or someone like that, but I don’t really admire them as people. I admire their output and ideas and art more so. I don’t actually admire people, to be honest. The creative output fascinates me, as do how it fits into overarching themes.
What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?
Not that I know of. Except my Dad, but now I know how to control him better so I don’t know.
What are your spiritual or religious beliefs and why do you hold them?
I’ve already said that I believe in God because the alternatives are kinda stupid, and God creating everything is the only one that can make the most sense. I’m not a mega spiritual person, but I do believe that it is a truth of the universe. Universal truth. Whether we decide to acknowledge that or not, it’s up to us.
What are your political beliefs, and why? How much do you care about politics?
I think that politicians are just set up, puppets. The left is right, and the right is what’s left. They’re both two sides of the same coin, with controlled opposition, working to fulfil the goals of the higher ups. Nothing gets done, regardless of who you vote for because their plans can’t be broken. Modern politics, in a sense is a controlled operation, coated in a distraction and a ruse with the whole “pick a side” nonsense. I don’t care about politics as a game, per-se but I care a lot more about the inner workings and plans that the higher ups are looking to implement on a global scale, eventually and I think that “current events” are clues as to where they are leading us in terms of the “end game” (which I definitely think is going to be a ‘one world governmental system’ of sorts). I think there is a lot of evidence out there to support it (i.e. Georgia Guidestones, 1984, manifestos etc). Although it’s happening now, slowly and in baby steps, I think that someday it will end up there.
What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
- Honestly? One where I can focus and do my own thing in my own time without people annoying me.
- I like flexibility so I can juggle my other projects and work on them all as well, and still get paid without this stupid work environment and slaving in the office hours bs. I like to be in control of my working environment and I like to keep it organised, and I need to get into the zone to get the flow to keep working. People distracting me doesn’t work.
What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
English, (and languages too) probably. Because I found it easy, and I was good at answering questions about literary works, writing stories, persuasive letters etc. I also like seeing how language evolves, works and influences people all over the world (i.e. in Spanish, French, Portuguese etc). Figuring out patterns in language to learn them more easily/ efficiently and looking at the roots/origins of languages is also interesting to me.
What is one common misconception that people have about life? Explain why it is wrong.
- “The big matters, and the small don’t.”
- All good things come in small packages; condoms, shot glasses, blow up beds…
… You get the point
(Also what would this be without a bbno$ reference, eh?)
Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?
If you count a vacation as being away from home for a weekend, then I went to Kildare down South last September with my parents. I want shopping, explored the local towns in the area, ate food. I liked it, aside from the mask mandates and the fact that there was someone lurking behind very damn corner telling you mask up, even when you were drinking coffee or eating food. No. Not today, satan. I want to eat.
Talk about a significant event from your life.
When I was five, I was in a hotel at a swimming pool. I, as a dumbass DEADlet thought that the pool was the same depth all the way around so I dived in to see my Dad, but he add up saving my life and rescuing me from the pool. As a result, I learned how to swim and control myself in the water. I still remember some of the swimming, but I could be better at it. I think I know enough to stay afloat (no pun intended).
How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
- As a society? People are easily influenced, and can be easily led. Look at the mainstream media and social experiments. I think we have too much groupthink, and not enough critical thinking as a whole.
- I think that social media, especially TikTok and Twitter are a prevalent social problem because that’s where most of the problematic bullshit seems to come from (cancelling people for having another opinion, stupid trends that teenagers seem to emulate). What was once a useful tool for mass marketing has become a cesspool of bullshit for society to mess about on and pretend to be important. It’s becoming a cancer, more than a solution for society to share ideas, thoughts and feelings that are productive and come to a conclusion of some sort.
What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
I resort to persuasion and showing people why and what benefit it brings. If nothing else works, I just horse my way through it and get what I need.
Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?
Though I’m a loner and enjoy doing things myself, I can lead people if I have to. Generally, if we all have a goal that we need to strive towards. This makes it easier to direct people because we don’t want to stray away from the goal and will do whatever it takes to get there.
How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?
- A lot less than I used to.
- People who do things ass about face, stupid people, incompetencies that close people in the long term. People being screwed over unfairly.
What is one unusual trait or ability you possess? What makes you special?
I have no idea. I’m just an average forum goer.
What is your sense of humor like? Do you joke around a lot?
Pretty good and yes I like to joke about. Joking about is how I stay sane, you know?
What were you like as a child? How have you changed since then?
- A nerd, use to be really into reading complex nature books, challenging video games (for my age range), documentaries, using my laptop to learn (VTech, this was like 1999 so it wasn’t online). I liked to watch movies, TV shows and listen to music as well. I was a very cerebral child. Kept to myself a lot of time, but still played when I was bored.
- I’m still pretty cerebral but more laid back. More into ideas and concepts as a whole, more musical and creative. Less rigid and more assertive. Still keen to learn though.
What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?
My birthday. Going out and getting treated, for once.
What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?
- My hangover from my birthday? It was worth it though…
What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
To make it out to the other side, kidding. I guess it is to carry out your assignment, in a way. Self-assign meaning in a sense, to your predestined journey. How do you find it out? Keep exploring, and keep finding things out. I’d say pray too but not everyone’s into that, and that’s Gucci. Everything will fall into place at the end if you keep searching and keep finding out the truth in the maze and unravel it all.
What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?
- Salou, in Spain (well, the whole of the area in Catalonia that I was in).
- It was interesting because I enjoyed learning about Catalonian culture, and the local historical areas. It was all very rich in culture (especially Barcelona itself). I went to the Nou Camp and learned a lot about Barcelona FC and its history; I went to a Tapas bar on Salou, and I got piss drunk and earned about Spanish music. I went to Reus, and learned about Gaudi. I got to use my language skills that I had acquired (Spanish) and put them to use, have conversations with people and hav a good time in general. It’s so different, compared to Ireland, and a lot more chill (siestas in the summer, chilling on the beach, loads of beers). It would be a lot easier, culturally to enjoy Spain than Ireland because of those reasons, and the fact that most Spaniards tend to be more friendly and laid back.
Last edited by DEAD; 12-18-2021 at 12:22 AM.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
A couple of questions I thought of while reading your questionnaire are included below - you don't have to respond if you think these points will not help much in determining your type.
Do you consider yourself quite good at striking up fast friendships, e.g. when you were in Spain; meeting someone by chance and then deciding to get a meal together? Or is it better from your perspective to get a good read on someone first before committing your time to them and letting them in to your life?
I thought of asking this because you said you said you can be cold and unfriendly. Is that your self-assessment, or were you providing that as an example of criticism you have received from others?
When I read your answer for what you look for in friends you seemed to reject "commonly accepted" preferences, ideals. My gut feeling is that Fi is a valued function and what you perceive yourself to be lacking in sociability is your not-as-valued Fe. That could(?) also fit with you wanting to change the Discord topic or distract when there's a non-constructive argument going on (rather than console, reframe or make light of the situation).
There are a couple of things that made me think Se for you is about: realising/accomplishing things, making something come to life, have something to show for your efforts.
That's something I notice in myself too; why I like structure and discipline is because those things help me get my ideas and obsessions out of my head and into visible things e.g. I take nature photos.
Knowing that your illness would pass - I feel like that could be indicative of a function, but it could depend on whether the "knowing" is due to your familiarity with your body, or your faith.
Well, it depends. My friend once said that I'd talk to anyone, even the devil himself. I can talk to anyone, but yeah, I can make friends fast if I want to. They usually die down fast as well. I can talk to anyone about anything, but at times I do prefer to have a topic in mind/reason before I talk to people. It depends on the room itself, and it also depends on how "busy/preoccupied" I am as well if that makes sense? I don't really end up doing commitments much at all. I don't end up investing a lot into people on a 1-1 basis at all. It's just not how it naturally works. People change and move on and conversations 1-1 fizzle out fast.
I dunno, maybe I think that I am cold/unfriendly seeming. Maybe some people see me as less so and nicer. I guess that it sorta depends on the placement and the situation and the overall flow of things. I do tend to analyze things a fair bit at social events (not talking about people necessarily, but for them sometimes too). It's more like "what are they doing?" "Look at those books, look at the mirror." "Why is that there?" "Why are they talking loudly?" After a while, if I get bored, I do some exploring or go outside. I usually look for free drinks. Free food. I'm more interested in exploration and figuring things out, where everything is etc. than people most of the time, but I won't say no to a conversation at all.
I guess I am a bit of a hippie, and I guess I know in a way what I like but I don't let these things frame my identity. I don't care about having a unique identity, or anything like that. I'm just not interested in common ideals, I guess. I don't see the point in consoling people if everyone else wants them to give over as well. It's like changing a radio station and putting on something else that works. No one wants to listen to Nordic Death Metal when there's party music at a pool party. Discord is kinda like a pool party in a way, everyone chilling and stuff.
Yeah, maybe Se works in that context. I like to make things, definitely. I have a lot of ideas as well yeah. It is nice and good to get things out of your head, as soon as possible and if possible. I like to have a record of my creations yeah definitely if possible.
I just knew it wasn't my time to go and that the storm would pass. It was a lot more mental than physical, I know that it's not the end of the road. My brain can sometimes get a bit screwed up from thinking. Thinking is kinda what I do, and thinking some more and then overthinking lol. My brain prolly wanted a respite as well and I can't blame it.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
"I can talk to anyone about anything, but at times I do prefer to have a topic in mind/reason before I talk to people" - this and your comment about exploring the surroundings (what's that/why is that there/what are those people doing) reminded me of clear extroverts I have known; what they prioritise when at parties, and how freely they seem to move from one place to another.
It's a kind of flexibility I can't call on in myself, because I find it difficult to react or decide on the spot and kind of freeze up.
I go into things with a set of fixed outcomes in mind and anything that falls outside of those outcomes can be scary.
Previously I saw you write LSI as a possible type but I don't see anything in your questionnaire or responses that stands out as vulnerable Ne.
Even if that's just based on your flexibility, being able to say "it depends" - that to me indicates you have a range of options to work with at a given moment.
Being able to talk about anything is sort of an extrovert skill in my opinion; if I compare myself (very self absorbed/introverted), I have a set of special topics which I can discuss freely and if those topics are not on the table I'll hit a brick wall and mind draws a blank. Sometimes I will stay and listen silently for as long as the topic piques my interest and I can learn from it.
Thanks for the clarification. Initially I was trying to connect this to a function, e.g. Si-Ego understanding how certain substances affect their disposition and feeling themselves gradually return back to a set point of healthiness. How you have described this might not be related to type - or I'm not confident enough in typing to say. But it does sound like an involuntary self-soothing in a way, like you said a respite. I feel like a lot of people could relate to that regardless of type.
I'm not sure you seek to be imbued with other people's feelings or preferences enough to be an ST type? But then, you said this:
Do you think a reason can be that you want to be more open to changing as you encounter new/different things you like?
Yeah, I usually have an aim too (get drunk, go outside for a walk and explore things, get free food, etc) in place after I've sussed things out. I would say that I am extroverted over introverted, definitely (in terms of functionality) but I do think that people can confuse social extroversion and introversion, too with the functions. Socially, I would say that I am closer to being an ambivert than an extrovert if we are going to separate the two.
Yeah, I too usually end up having a goal in mind but I can be a lot more flexible at implementing it. If something goes wrong I guess I can improvise pretty well. Or have a backup plan of sorts. I am decisive pretty much most of the time. 9/10 times.It's a kind of flexibility I can't call on in myself, because I find it difficult to react or decide on the spot and kind of freeze up.
I go into things with a set of fixed outcomes in mind and anything that falls outside of those outcomes can be scary.
Yeah, I thought about it making sense to an extent, but now I don't think that it does. I don't think that my Ne is PoLR, tbh. Yeah, I work with ideas and options and plans and resources. What I have here and can see too. Very good problem solver, quick thinker mostly.Previously I saw you write LSI as a possible type but I don't see anything in your questionnaire or responses that stands out as vulnerable Ne.
Even if that's just based on your flexibility, being able to say "it depends" - that to me indicates you have a range of options to work with at a given moment.
Yeah, I guess so. Extroverted again. Don't think I am actually a very "self-absorbed" person to be honest. I didn't actually start thinking about 'the self' until I got into Soconics, funnily enough. I don't like being left alone with my thoughts, so I will distract myself with music or a video. Anything to drag me away. I can do a bit of anything, make up some topics yeah. Interesting, I'm not like that. I like to give/add input.Being able to talk about anything is sort of an extrovert skill in my opinion; if I compare myself (very self absorbed/introverted), I have a set of special topics which I can discuss freely and if those topics are not on the table I'll hit a brick wall and mind draws a blank. Sometimes I will stay and listen silently for as long as the topic piques my interest and I can learn from it.
Yeah, sure no problem. I think that also Si and health are too interlinked and people don't talk about the bad side of Si as well (excessive comfort, overindulgence, refusing to change, etc). I'm not too sure if respite is related to type either, I think that's just something people tend to do naturally. I guess functions are more wired toward the "focus" and "processes" of Information Metabolism than actual traits, in a way. If you get me? Traits are a lot more generic in value than functions, which are a lot more specific (i.e. a 'social extrovert' could be any type [more likely any extroverted type] but Fe focuses more specifically on socialization, and people and society in general, and the emotional atmosphere than a Fi valuing type tends to).Thanks for the clarification. Initially I was trying to connect this to a function, e.g. Si-Ego understanding how certain substances affect their disposition and feeling themselves gradually return back to a set point of healthiness. How you have described this might not be related to type - or I'm not confident enough in typing to say. But it does sound like an involuntary self-soothing in a way, like you said a respite. I feel like a lot of people could relate to that regardless of type.
I'm not sure you seek to be imbued with other people's feelings or preferences enough to be an ST type? But then, you said this:
It depends. What do you mean by "changing"? Changing ideas, perspectives, or being more open to different people/places? I mean, I am kinda static in a way, but I can change and expand things easily too.Do you think a reason can be that you want to be more open to changing as you encounter new/different things you like?
I do not suffer fools gladly.
As promised over discord I'm going to write an analysis of the questionnaire above. Note I'm taking a blank slate approach to this - I'm going to to do my best to ignore all my prior experience and only type the contents of this questionnaire.
When deciding on a type I've taken 2 approaches to double-check my decision - the first one was to read through and rationally gather my thoughts, the second was to tally what every quote could be used in justification of and then do a small data analysis of the tally to rank the likelihood of each type. Both of these have come out with fairly similar conclusions, but I will save those to the end. Here are my overarching thoughts for each IE:
Ti: Inconsistency I think is the name of the game with DEAD's Ti. There's seemingly contradictory points, between liking a task for its lack of organisation and structure to claiming that he would like to be provided a consistent routine to work within. Maybe I'm misinterpreting one or both of these but it would at a glance seem to indicate weaker Ti, perhaps reconciled by Ti suggestive - wants it but is comfortable working outside it? Additionally, he seems to have never considered codifying his inner thoughts - he can not call to mind any explicit values he holds. Weaker Ti also seems to manifest in DEAD's general attitude toward the rules - he has found classroom environments to be too restrictive and has admitted to skipping classes and choosing subjects in a way which avoids written exams at all costs. I overall lean toward the idea that DEAD doesn't value Ti and may not be all that ready and willing to fall back on it if needed.
Te: Definitely the matter that is talked about the most in these answers, although that may be a consequence of the content of the questions. There's a plentiful emphasis on hoarding knowledge through reading, studying and partaking in processes. He also mentioned what I interpret as some sort of disdain for sources which are unreliable - "experts who are full of shit". Not sure if this one is an admonishment of the idea of experts in general or just ones that don't meet some standard of trustworthiness - I'll go with the latter based on the context. DEAD also expresses a sense of practicality in areas, his living space and choice of clothing sound like they are chosen for function over form completely. Aesthetics or status are not cited as motivating factors in the answer. Based on all this I think we're almost definitely looking at valued Te. It seems self-sufficient enough to not be suggestive, however I don't believe there's too clear an indication that separates other possibilities. I think the fact most of the Te references in here relate to seeking out information as opposed to developing and utilizing it may point more to weaker Te - which would align with the conclusion on Ti - but I wouldn't set that in stone in isolation.
Fi: Oh boy, DEAD and Fi have a history together. Everyone says he's SEE and he vehemently rejects the notion of Fi creative. To maintain the whole blank slate thing I need to tread carefully here, so here's your contextual disclosure that this is the hot potato I might mess up on. On the surface, DEAD has not talked about Fi. Questions about family and friends have been relatively quickly brushed off which could lend credence to weaker or unvalued Fi. However, Fi's not just about holding relationships with people, but about the underlying judgements that give us the motivation to form relationships in the first place - and there's a lot of those in here. Everything to self-identifying as a "cold bitch" to labelling people participating in "mental circlejerks" as "arrogant" to people "wasting their time" to disliking "stupid" people prone to "incompetence". These phrases aren't really stating things for what they are, but rather interpreting them through the lens of a personal sentiment, and it happens often. I don't want to be the person that cites suspicions of an ulterior motive or implying that there's some mental wrongness making you act differently from how your type should, but the disproportionate references to logic versus ethics along with the muffling of talk about relationships but the character judgements leaking through - it all raises a bit of an eyebrow. My conclusion on this IE is just to kind of leave it and then lean one way or the other based on what kind of hole it can fill around the other IEs. Yes, there's the evidence of the propensity for character judgements, but the answers also explicitly state that there is no value for relationships, so we'll see how that pans out.
Fe: I was not expecting this to be the super easy one but here we are. DEAD is most likely not an Fe valuer in any capacity. He has no stated desire for attention and any attention-getting bullshitting is entirely for self-amusement as opposed to obtaining a reaction. Am I inclined to believe this? Yeah, actually, it kind of explains the non-sequiturs in conversations and, unlike someone like bimbo, these interruptions don't include the means to start a new conversation where DEAD is more the focus. They're just interruptions for their own sake. Additionally, despite all the talk about music, expression and reception of it is never a stated factor - the making of music appears to be entirely self-serving. I think overall we're definitely looking at devalued Fe but also given the claims that DEAD is popular and that attention seems to find him regardless of whether he goes looking for it, higher Fe is more likely. I think another small detail that hits that home is how the questionnaire is often treated as a conversation rather than the information dump I would treat it as - with often quips and jokes directed at the reader. Fe demo? Maybe.
Si: The mentioning of comfort as a priority for clothing goes some way to suggesting potential Si, but this is pretty quickly countered by a direct statement that "I don't care much for harmony". I don't know if this is a symptom of the questions but that's basically all there is Si-wise. No reference to any consideration for aesthetics - although the opportunities do arise when talking about the room. When talking about winning the lottery, there's no consideration for how his lifestyle can be improved - it's just "haha time to spend it all on a ridiculously ambitious project" which to me just outright nullifies Si lead. Apart from that, I don't think there's much to glean in terms of Si from this.
Se: This is where I disappoint everyone that thought this was leading up to a runaway victory for SEE. DEAD's Se is not that strong and, honestly, potentially not valued. it definitely isn't PoLR, it's demonstrated several times that he will participate in a conflict when necessary, but it is always and only when necessary. Even then, the way in which he does participate appears to be a very passive style where he holds fast against aggression instead of responding to aggression in kind e.g withholding what the other person wants until they stop or compelling the attacker to reflect on why they're doing what they're doing. I wouldn't expect this from lead or mobilizing Se personally. Maybe less so mobilizing, I could see them potentially going about it this way, but I'd more expect role to be the one to take a role that is more passive but not submissive. DEAD also shows some annoyance toward arguments that have no practical purpose beyond putting one over on the other. While a dismissal of fighting for the purpose of "winning" could also be more sign of lowered Ti instead, I think devalued Se is not a bad shout - role or demo are both fairly solid conclusions.
Ni: Ni is another relatively sparse IE, but there's enough to rule out 1D in my eyes. The anecdote around getting through a slump simply by knowing that they're temporary and waiting it out would have probably driven an ESE/LSE insane, and I would have expected SLE/SEE to remedy the matter with immediate and potentially impulsive action (add a point to bad Se?). There are also enough minor references to future/hypothetical plans and the deeper meaning of those actions to suggest that Ni vulnerable is clear off the table but I don't think there's any cause to suggest DEAD is Ni ego.
Ne: The wildcard I wasn't quite expecting, Ne is plastered all over this thing to the point that I think 4D Ne is kind of inevitable. There are multiple positive references to flexibility, potential, quick solutions and possibilities including identifying it as a personal strength. I'd be kind of crazy to not go with an Ne lead or Ne demo to be quite honest, it's just an element that pervades the entire questionnaire.
So, conclusion? Based purely on the above, I don't think any type fits the bill like a glove. The main hitch is Si/Se as both appear on the surface to be unvalued by DEAD's words. There's also the matter of the Fi and how we interpret what we have. I'm going to list what I think are all the valid typings in order of their likelihood:
IEE: I think this is the one I'm "officially" going with. Affinity for potential and possibilities, dislike of restriction and structure, bad with harmony and comfort, desire for accumulating information. It all kind of fits together neatly, and Fi creative incorporates higher Fi without it being a completely intrinsic goal, so it's not THAT bad.
LIE: Retains the higher Ne and focus on Te, but it may be a bit harder to justify Ni creative and Se mobilizing given the answers in the questionnaire. Fi is only suggestive, so it's probably the most palatable choice if you are in the "DEAD Fi bad" camp. However, I think a logical type might be a bad pick just because of how socially oriented DEAD is to get what he wants. Fe mobilizing only goes so far in that regard.
SEE: I would put this one on par with LIE. It has all the upsides of IEE bar the swapping of Ne and Se. Ne role doesn't fit very we've given what we've seen, and Se lead could be difficult to justify. However, it does keep the social focus that more aligns with the persuasion and entertainment DEAD claims to rely on.
EIE: Even less likely. Has all the problems LIE does but is remedied slightly by returning to a social focus - problem is it might take that focus a bit too far as Fe lead could be a hard sell. Ti suggestive is also kind of unlikely given how much structure is admonished.
ILE: Only really here to pay lip service to the Ne. I don't think there is any merit to this one, but is good to include to mark the point where types beyond it are essentially not on the cards.
Thank you for taking your time out to decipher this and give your opinion.
I can do, and I can understand exams, and I can structure things, but I think in a way that not doing exams is about it being a means to an end. The easiest way to an end goal is not to overcomplicate the topics. You just need to pass English, ICT, and Math right? The other ones are just there to add to the record, pump it up. If you wanna actually do A-Levels, sure, it has an entry point but the majority don't. I think that the option overall of vocational classes, and gcse/academic themed classes are a good stepping stone for most people. Unversity prep too, if you wanna go there. As are specialized classes (i.e. university level) down the line.Ti: Inconsistency I think is the name of the game with DEAD's Ti. There's seemingly contradictory points, between liking a task for its lack of organisation and structure to claiming that he would like to be provided a consistent routine to work within. Maybe I'm misinterpreting one or both of these but it would at a glance seem to indicate weaker Ti, perhaps reconciled by Ti suggestive - wants it but is comfortable working outside it? Additionally, he seems to have never considered codifying his inner thoughts - he can not call to mind any explicit values he holds. Weaker Ti also seems to manifest in DEAD's general attitude toward the rules - he has found classroom environments to be too restrictive and has admitted to skipping classes and choosing subjects in a way which avoids written exams at all costs. I overall lean toward the idea that DEAD doesn't value Ti and may not be all that ready and willing to fall back on it if needed.
As for skipping classes, and hating structure, it was GCSEs, what's the point in overworking to get there? You need to do what you have to do to progress and get to the next stage of your goal. I think that the problem with classroom environments, in general, is yes, that they are restrictive, but you also learn a lot of useless stuff. Why sit through a bunch of useless stuff that doesn't teach you about things, or lets you think critically/explore things? It doesn't challenge you, either. It's the system as well, it's more tainted towards academia and retaining information, rather than actual beneficial material for kids to learn and develop/challenge. Kids soak it up like a sponge, and they don't think about or need most of it ever again (I'd argue past 14 years old).
As for codifying my thoughts, I would say that they can be organized if I want them to be, but all in all, it's easier to structure them out, like I am doing now. I do structure things, and I do have structure but it's not rigid. I would say "hate" is a strong word, but I probably don't value Ti. Laws and rules are useful to learn when needed, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of solutions and the universe. As for making my own systems, I can do it but when I need to. When I want to understand and make sense of things, I will research a system and grasp it, but again, only if I have to. I don't structure my life around these sorts of things, that mich is true, but I don't think that it's my weakest spot overall.
I don't think that outright agreeing with everything experts say and not questioning it is 4D Te. It's not that I don't trust them, I just cross-check a lot of facts and information and make sure that it is accurate, and I'm not actually being lied to. Not all experts are full of "shit" per-se, but I think that people should do their own research and come to their own conclusions and point out things that don't match what they say. You need to know these things and use them in the future if they are important issues, and you need to know that these things are correct and not everything experts say all the time is correct. I don't just collect information for a laugh, I do want to use it when I have to, and it comes in useful for the said scenario.Te: Definitely the matter that is talked about the most in these answers, although that may be a consequence of the content of the questions. There's a plentiful emphasis on hoarding knowledge through reading, studying and partaking in processes. He also mentioned what I interpret as some sort of disdain for sources which are unreliable - "experts who are full of shit". Not sure if this one is an admonishment of the idea of experts in general or just ones that don't meet some standard of trustworthiness - I'll go with the latter based on the context. DEAD also expresses a sense of practicality in areas, his living space and choice of clothing sound like they are chosen for function over form completely. Aesthetics or status are not cited as motivating factors in the answer. Based on all this I think we're almost definitely looking at valued Te. It seems self-sufficient enough to not be suggestive, however I don't believe there's too clear an indication that separates other possibilities. I think the fact most of the Te references in here relate to seeking out information as opposed to developing and utilizing it may point more to weaker Te - which would align with the conclusion on Ti - but I wouldn't set that in stone in isolation.
If I'm researching say about holidays in Spain, I want to know the linguistic basics, how much money to bring, what to pack, the best mode of transport, etc. as much as I can before I go. I want to be well-prepared. Yeah, I will discover things on the trip and suss them out there too, but it's nice to know as much as you can beforehand as well. Especially in regards to prep.
I did the same thing for uni. I compared several unis, their costs, went to visit the courses and compared the courses (I had money saved up) to see which one was the best in the long term, and the cheapest to get me to my end goal (a degree in Music of sorts). It turned out that the local option was the cheapest (got a grant for it), the best course (in terms of variety and learning), and wasn't far from home. I got my end goal in 2019 as well.
I think that Fi is definitely a sore spot for me. I don’t really know why people are so adamant on me being Fi creative > anything else because I talk to people? I think that I’m genuinely not as good at Fi as people make me out to be. I have no real concern for relationships (creating, or otherwise maintaining them). I have always enjoyed my own company more, and I see relations as a hard thing to maintain. In the Fi creative description, it says that Fi creative are “ADEPT” at making relations, and can drop people at any time.Fi: Oh boy, DEAD and Fi have a history together. Everyone says he's SEE and he vehemently rejects the notion of Fi creative. To maintain the whole blank slate thing I need to tread carefully here, so here's your contextual disclosure that this is the hot potato I might mess up on. On the surface, DEAD has not talked about Fi. Questions about family and friends have been relatively quickly brushed off which could lend credence to weaker or unvalued Fi. However, Fi's not just about holding relationships with people, but about the underlying judgements that give us the motivation to form relationships in the first place - and there's a lot of those in here. Everything to self-identifying as a "cold bitch" to labelling people participating in "mental circlejerks" as "arrogant" to people "wasting their time" to disliking "stupid" people prone to "incompetence". These phrases aren't really stating things for what they are, but rather interpreting them through the lens of a personal sentiment, and it happens often. I don't want to be the person that cites suspicions of an ulterior motive or implying that there's some mental wrongness making you act differently from how your type should, but the disproportionate references to logic versus ethics along with the muffling of talk about relationships but the character judgements leaking through - it all raises a bit of an eyebrow. My conclusion on this IE is just to kind of leave it and then lean one way or the other based on what kind of hole it can fill around the other IEs. Yes, there's the evidence of the propensity for character judgements, but the answers also explicitly state that there is no value for relationships, so we'll see how that pans out.
Compared to someone like Hawk or Woof, I don’t think that I have the 4D Fe/Fi creative combo that they both have because they are a lot more adept at managing social situations than me, and are even a lot more expressive. They can talk or speak about relations and forming them a lot more smoothly than I can, as if it was a second nature to them.
As for the “sentiments”, I see them more as opinions, and not personal truths/sentiments. Just things I have observed. I don’t think that forming strong opinions is < 3D Fi. I’m not judging anyone’s characters here (I don’t know most people well enough to do that, nor do I have an inherent desire to do so). Maybe I am underestimating it in my psyche, but I think that I need to think about it more than the average prison to execute it.
I just see arguments that go nowhere as a waste of time. They aren’t constructive or solving anything, or furthering anything. Last night, I was on VC with four people. Two of them argued for a while, and it went nowhere. Nothing about it was productive, and no-one learned anything.
Incompetence is rife, to be honest. Especially in online shopping based companies, and a lot (not all) of the government sector jobs. They just don’t have things efficiently set up (i.e. returns policies, guarantees, inadequate customer services etc)., and it takes a long time to get anywhere with them. Although the numbered systems are helpful (especially in government places), they can only get you so far. Once you go to the department, you have to rely on the other person to get things rolling. Their knowledge can only get you so far. They all need to be trained to a high standard and in some places, they are not, which ruins everything.
I understand and know that some companies may not have the resources they need to carry these changes/improvements out on a larger scale, or they have invested in other things, but they still need to develop and improve some standards of sort with what they have (i.e. more efficient training for the staff, guideline revisions, better AI to provide better services etc). Yeah, I know that this went on a bit but that’s just one example of what I think about incompetency and how to improve it. There are loads of other ways and things that I could discuss in regards to this topic, but I don’t wanna go on all night.
Maybe we are just not understanding things right, but for as long as I remember, I haven’t been interested in, nor been good at maintaining relations in general. I’m not saying this just to ‘seem’ a certain type. I have always struggled in this area. In empathy, and understanding other people on a deeper level. I also don’t have morals, nor do I lead my life by doing what ‘feels’ right. I think that it is the worst way to make decisions and lead your life. Thinking things over, and actually looking at pros-cons is a much more reliable and sensible way at looking things, discerning, organising and making conclusions from data has always made decisions easier for me, rather than thinking about ‘listening to my heart’ or ‘going with what I feel’.
I don’t really make a lot of ‘judgements’ in real life. I can still make them, but they’re not as “unhinged” as on the chat, or on the same scale. I do still think that unproductive arguments are a circlejerk and go nowhere and that’s not what I would call a “personal, value judgement” at all. It’s based on experience. On what I had observed more than anything, and of seeing the process/workings behind the outcome of those. If you want to push it and call it a ‘value judgement’, go ahead, but I don’t think that’s an accurate term at all. I think that’s more an observation than anything.
I don’t really like unnecessary attention. I don’t rally give a shit about it, or want to deal with it much. Do I sometimes prod people for my own amusement? Sure. Does attention happen sometimes? Sure. Do I joke around? Sure. I do happen to make music, and I don’t care about self-expression or expressing many emotions in it. I care more about experimenting and making a beat. Making something original. Adding a story and a theme to it. Seeing where it ends up.Fe: I was not expecting this to be the super easy one but here we are. DEAD is most likely not an Fe valuer in any capacity. He has no stated desire for attention and any attention-getting bullshitting is entirely for self-amusement as opposed to obtaining a reaction. Am I inclined to believe this? Yeah, actually, it kind of explains the non-sequiturs in conversations and, unlike someone like bimbo, these interruptions don't include the means to start a new conversation where DEAD is more the focus. They're just interruptions for their own sake. Additionally, despite all the talk about music, expression and reception of it is never a stated factor - the making of music appears to be entirely self-serving. I think overall we're definitely looking at devalued Fe but also given the claims that DEAD is popular and that attention seems to find him regardless of whether he goes looking for it, higher Fe is more likely. I think another small detail that hits that home is how the questionnaire is often treated as a conversation rather than the information dump I would treat it as - with often quips and jokes directed at the reader. Fe demo? Maybe.
I don’t know if it is [always] fair to equate receiving attention as high Fe, but I understand where this point comes from. If someone is a polarising figure, people tend to be intrigued by them. I dunno how I am popular, though, to be honest, but it just happened. Not that it’s a bad, or a good thing. I wouldn’t say that I am effortlessly naturally charismatic either, but I guess that other people see that.
Honestly? No one gives a shit about info dumps. No-one wants to read a character profile sheet. They want to read something that gives answers and a more accurate representation of functional usage instead of a robot. Is it Fe Demo? No idea. Is my Fe strong? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know if it is 4D, though. I wouldn’t say that I am an overly expressive person in general (dunno if that is NTR or not), but I can smile if I have to. I can emote, at times. I’m not completely robotic, but I can be a bit monotonous to some.
I agree that my Si is crap, lol. Comfort and practicality in clothing matter a lot more than aesthetics. Just keeping things simple works, and I will continue to do so. It’s very easy to just navigate things that way. I’d say my Si is 1D tbh. I dunno if I value it. And yeah, I don’t give a crap about improving my lifestyle. There are more important things to do, and you die when you die. No improvement of any lifestyle is gonna add years onto your life. Yeah, it might help you live you life healthier, but it’s also pot luck. Some healthy people end up dying young and they do everything right, and some people do everything wrong (i.e. my late grandma, frying foods, drinking whiskey and smoking until she did in her 90s).Si: The mentioning of comfort as a priority for clothing goes some way to suggesting potential Si, but this is pretty quickly countered by a direct statement that "I don't care much for harmony". I don't know if this is a symptom of the questions but that's basically all there is Si-wise. No reference to any consideration for aesthetics - although the opportunities do arise when talking about the room. When talking about winning the lottery, there's no consideration for how his lifestyle can be improved - it's just "haha time to spend it all on a ridiculously ambitious project" which to me just outright nullifies Si lead. Apart from that, I don't think there's much to glean in terms of Si from this.
I think that people also overlook the negative side of Si. It can be lazy, resistant to change, prone to comfort and also glutton in unhealthy individuals (by no means is this an argument for my Si being higher), but people never seem to take that into account. I don’t think that it’s all about health (from what I understand and I know of it overall).
I wouldn’t spend it ALL on my TV station. I would INVEST in a TV Station. What gave you the impression that I would spent it all on that project? I think that would be stupid and hedonistic. I know that if I invested the money carefully, it would have some good outcomes, but that would only happen if I could secure and find a stream of funding (i.e. being st for life in the lottery). I actually am kinda stingy, I hate wasting money unnecessarily. I dunno if that is NTR, btw.
I will fight when I have to. I am assertive though, and I won’t let people walk over me. I agree that I can come across as kinda more passive than an Se base. I am prone to enjoying violence at times, and fighting, yeah but I’m definitely not averse to it. I can stand my ground. I’m not against aggression per-se. I can hold people’s rights if I have to or want to. I’m just more like that in real life. I don’t see the point in the chat. It’s a damn internet chat, lol.Se: This is where I disappoint everyone that thought this was leading up to a runaway victory for SEE. DEAD's Se is not that strong and, honestly, potentially not valued. it definitely isn't PoLR, it's demonstrated several times that he will participate in a conflict when necessary, but it is always and only when necessary. Even then, the way in which he does participate appears to be a very passive style where he holds fast against aggression instead of responding to aggression in kind e.g withholding what the other person wants until they stop or compelling the attacker to reflect on why they're doing what they're doing. I wouldn't expect this from lead or mobilizing Se personally. Maybe less so mobilizing, I could see them potentially going about it this way, but I'd more expect role to be the one to take a role that is more passive but not submissive. DEAD also shows some annoyance toward arguments that have no practical purpose beyond putting one over on the other. While a dismissal of fighting for the purpose of "winning" could also be more sign of lowered Ti instead, I think devalued Se is not a bad shout - role or demo are both fairly solid conclusions.
I don’t think that ‘fighting to win’ is lowered Ti. A lot of losers are Beta ST and Alpha NT, lol. I don’t think that it’s type related. I would do boxing and can fights if I wanted to, or was bothered. I also don’t think that 2d Se is a bad shout either. I know for fact that it’s not 1D, lol. And maybe not 3D. I also like upbeat, fast paced and actually slightly more aggressive music over chill music (but I think a lot of people tend to that anyway). I think music preference is NTR.
Yeah, I think that rushing would have ruined me there, to be honest. I knew that I had to wait. Being impulsive would have been stupid there. You can’t force some things, like a poo, it doesn’t end well. I agree that I am not an Ni PoLR. My Mom is one and her timekeeping skills, and future plans/search for deeper meaning is very weak.Ni: Ni is another relatively sparse IE, but there's enough to rule out 1D in my eyes. The anecdote around getting through a slump simply by knowing that they're temporary and waiting it out would have probably driven an ESE/LSE insane, and I would have expected SLE/SEE to remedy the matter with immediate and potentially impulsive action (add a point to bad Se?). There are also enough minor references to future/hypothetical plans and the deeper meaning of those actions to suggest that Ni vulnerable is clear off the table but I don't think there's any cause to suggest DEAD is Ni ego.
Can I be a bit impatient at times? Sometimes, but so can everyone.
I mean, I have waited for an hour and a half for my friend to show at a coffee shop to have a conversation with them. Was it worth it? Of course.
Do I know when to not wait anymore? Yah, I’d say I do.
Am I Ni ego? No clue. I guess that’s up to us to decipher.
I can’t really argue or bring up any points against this, to be honest.Ne: The wildcard I wasn't quite expecting, Ne is plastered all over this thing to the point that I think 4D Ne is kind of inevitable. There are multiple positive references to flexibility, potential, quick solutions and possibilities including identifying it as a personal strength. I'd be kind of crazy to not go with an Ne lead or Ne demo to be quite honest, it's just an element that pervades the entire questionnaire.
Yeah, I think those ratings are fair. IEE > LIE > SEE > EIE> ILE (Delta > Gamma > Beta> Alpha). I guess that I relate to Delta/Gamma the most in terms of Quadras, but I don’t really think about Quadras and their values much. I don’t think that I am really overly socially orientated, but it’s interesting that people pick these things up as well. It’s nice to have a 360 view and points for people to point out, and for us to discuss as well.So, conclusion? Based purely on the above, I don't think any type fits the bill like a glove. The main hitch is Si/Se as both appear on the surface to be unvalued by DEAD's words. There's also the matter of the Fi and how we interpret what we have. I'm going to list what I think are all the valid typings in order of their likelihood:
IEE: I think this is the one I'm "officially" going with. Affinity for potential and possibilities, dislike of restriction and structure, bad with harmony and comfort, desire for accumulating information. It all kind of fits together neatly, and Fi creative incorporates higher Fi without it being a completely intrinsic goal, so it's not THAT bad.
LIE: Retains the higher Ne and focus on Te, but it may be a bit harder to justify Ni creative and Se mobilizing given the answers in the questionnaire. Fi is only suggestive, so it's probably the most palatable choice if you are in the "DEAD Fi bad" camp. However, I think a logical type might be a bad pick just because of how socially oriented DEAD is to get what he wants. Fe mobilizing only goes so far in that regard.
SEE: I would put this one on par with LIE. It has all the upsides of IEE bar the swapping of Ne and Se. Ne role doesn't fit very we've given what we've seen, and Se lead could be difficult to justify. However, it does keep the social focus that more aligns with the persuasion and entertainment DEAD claims to rely on.
EIE: Even less likely. Has all the problems LIE does but is remedied slightly by returning to a social focus - problem is it might take that focus a bit too far as Fe lead could be a hard sell. Ti suggestive is also kind of unlikely given how much structure is admonished.
ILE: Only really here to pay lip service to the Ne. I don't think there is any merit to this one, but is good to include to mark the point where types beyond it are essentially not on the cards.
I'm not discounting IEE, by the way. I have nothing against actually being Fi creative, but I was wondering about how it might fit. LIE definitely seems like another decent fit based on the feedback you have given (not too sure if "seek" Fi, though). I also liked how it progressed by Quadra likelihood (not sure if that was intentional or not btw).
I think you have summed it all up well and I thank you once again for having a mature discussion with me and pointing things out.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
A couple of days have passed so I am trying to recall what I was seeing/saying before.
You said that you have an idea of what you like, but don't let those things frame your identity. I then thought it could have a connection to a couple of things:
Allowing interests or hobbies to frame your identity can lead to a person taking on customs of, (or joining up to) a sub-culture. If you like a certain type of music, perhaps its fans have a certain political leaning as with the people you meet at the vegetarian café you like. If you want to increase meetings with interesting people from all walks of life, or experiment with new interests/influences as you come across them, this can be easier to achieve when your likes/preferences are not painted on your sleeve, or framing your identity.
It's strange hearing things described from the other side. It often seems to me that extroverts need a steady flow of new impressions/input from whatever is going on outside or they might burst
Do you relate much to hopping straight into new ideas, tackling problems so you can get on to the next step, or sometimes doing things too rashly?
I don’t want my personal dislikes or likes to cloud me too much, judgement wise. I actually prefer to look at as many things as I can from an objective standpoint without biases. I don’t really care for finding my clan or a sense of belonging at all, actually. I think that if you have too many of them and you hold them all too close, it narrows your world view a lot and how you actually think about things and interact in the world around you.
That’s a good question to be honest. I think I will break each of the points down:Do you relate much to hopping straight into new ideas, tackling problems so you can get on to the next step, or sometimes doing things too rashly?
A) I am an explorative person and I do like new ideas but I want them in a way to be related to the ideas before. Have some connection to them. As many ideas as I have, I scrap a lot of them if they aren’t in line with the source of the original concept (especially in writing), a good next step (in the plot, or in solving problems), aren’t gonna go anywhere (they have no legs to stand on) or are just too ‘absurd’ and out of sync with whatever is going on (and they definitely aren’t even worth checking out).
B) I am quite the problem solver and fixer. I can break things down and put them together and make sense of them. I can solve problems through my general knowledge or through researching a problem very well. At times, the solution even comes to me and I make my own steps/method to solve it. I will try everything before I give up solving a problem, especially if it saves resources in the long run. And it is a challenge I can fix.
C) I’m a lot less rash than I used to be. When I was a teenager, I was aggressive and pretty impulsive. I try to think about things as much as I can before I do them, but I’m not totally immune to some rashness. I do still get angry at times but I try my best to stay level headed and think about what I am doing.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Member Questionnaire (luchoislurking)
No shit. I think we have pretty much established this at this point.
@CecaniahTzu I’m also interested to hear your thoughts too whenever if it’s possible.
Last edited by DEAD; 12-22-2021 at 02:36 PM.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Just gut here but I don't think you are any of Ti-valuers, especially as if I were to take another glance towards some conversations that have been occurred on Direct Message. Seems to be more evaluatory by the assessment of inanimate materials to be substantiated into the logical aspect of reasoning, doesn't have a clear structure, yet rather to have a tendency to ignore the complicated structure that a Ti-base usually made since it's contrary against the fact that not everything can be measured quantitatively by the priori judgment of causation, and rather to trust the productivity system as a way to generalize them into the terms that might be more discernable for others. I do understand where the SLE typing was coming from but the Te-value, at least, from here, is somewhat undisputable and @one probably would've agreed on this one, too.
I might want to elaborate it any further but I clearly don't see any point in doing so when I thought it's obvious, but it doesn't mean that I don't respect your own typing. I do value it but if you were to ask my opinion, then I'd say Gamma > Beta for the whole thing in general, as for the type, you'd probably know what type I was trying to impose at this point, and I don't think it's that oblivious as well.
Last edited by Metaphor; 12-22-2021 at 02:51 PM. Reason: OCD
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
I started out thinking SEE could be your socionics type because I noticed some parallels between the way you (and someone I know with SEE type) talk about artists/art you like and what qualities make someone or something good or poor quality, effective or ineffective.
Mentioning this so you know the questions I was asking were trying to evaluate your Se use. In the end it's hard to tell without interacting with you in person.
Qualities are distinct to you. I believe that an easy/straightforward understanding of what you can personally "glean" from something (understanding how it effects your spirit and wanting less or more of it) is indicative of strong Fi. You seem to be able to verbalise fluidly what you can take and leave about subjects. Fi being a "mental" function for you is supported by my assumption that Te is amongst your "vital" functions and valued.
When I think of mobilising function I imagine it being the one you direct "self improvement/realisation" toward. It feels nice to receive recognition here because of the effort you put in.
Suggestive I think it is the one you can adapt to life without (find workarounds for) but it feels like a blessing when someone does the legwork for you in this area. And that gets you thinking about how much your life/experience could open up and be changed if you could mimic that quality you notice in others. Suggestive function is the one you look up to, if there's someone you admire... perhaps.
My experience with SEE is that their creative Fi helps them to discern whether an occasion is worth making the extra effort, in terms of oomph with their personal styling/presentation. Valued Ni would be about knowing to present a certain way today, to secure opportunities down the line. ..being a memorable person for good reasons is important. I'm not sure whether you need pointers when it comes to painting a picture of future scenarios so that you can act smarter today. You seem quite adept at that already (projecting scenarios).
I can see Te being your mobilising function because you can expand on the subject but don't seem to be entrenched in that worldview day to day. Being entrenched in Te would be taking one functional, impersonal action after another and needing reminders from loved ones as to why this has resonance to others, as to you, deep inside. e. g. my LSE dad. It's difficult for me to see you as having Te-ego.
You don't seem to value Se as I have come to expect from an Se-ego type. Or, you seem to interact with what's going on around you with Ne before Se. Your pragmatism can come from being an extrovert (not stuck in your head) and having valued, mobilising Te.
There are steps missing in my thought process but I think your type could be IEE
I wouldn't say Gamma SF or Delta NF, SLE is way more reasonable but I don't think Fi PoLR.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
The point about Ti ok I would say that I am a lot more objective than someone who makes their own systems for everything. But I'd like to make a point about TiNe and TiSe being different. LII has -Ti, thus the nature of their Ti has a slightly different focus than the +Ti of LSI (now, I'm not saying this is an actual argument for Ti valuing per-se, but I'm using Ti as an example):
As we can see here, the absence of valued Ne in LSI (and I guess the whole of Beta) makes their process of Ti work differently from that of Alpha. Based upon what I know, I would say that the LII actually are more into creating complex structures than Alpha as a whole. The wording you use here (complex systems) is also in itself a misconception for everything Ti base, in a way. Yes, I agree that Ti bases are into the structure of things and that they, as a whole structure things. And I do tend to agree that I ignore it, but I'm not completely terrible at it when I have to use it.+ Ti - specificity, itemization, detailed study, thoroughness, accuracy, strictness, place in hierarchy, regulations, instructions, choosing the best option, precision of function, logic of organization, indicators, reporting; − Ti - abstractness, generality, universality, system, classification, typology, general regularities, objectivity, truth, justice, comprehensive review, analysis, dissection, the logic of science, criteria;
I don't "hate" structure" in the same way that a Ti PoLR would, and I don't completely disregard it. I just much prefer to be objective and use objective reasoning to reach conclusions, but I can still break things down and give reasoning if needed. I can pick apart systems and things and put them back together pretty easily, but it's when I have a point to prove more than anything.
It doesn't rule over my life like it would a Ti base, which you are basing your example off (4D Ti). I do value practicality over systemization for the sake of it. I do think definitely that socionics systems could be more generalized and available as resources for anyone. But yeah, the problem is synthesizing such a complex bunch of systems down to something useable for the majority as Socionics is always expanding. So many people have their own understanding of the system as a whole that is hard for there to be loads of "general" resources that are agreed upon (aside from the very foundations of socionics itself). Everything else that's not confirmed or agreed upon is just assumptions, and DLC (Downloadable Content), imo.
Productivity in understanding and clarity is more important than knowing every single facet of a system if it's not going to be useful in the long term. If you take the meat and spit out the bones and separate the components into something useful, you're gonna get a tasty stew that lasts longer than just chicken meat on the bone. But having said that, it will take longer to prepare.
Yeah, Te valuing (or 4D Te in some form) is more likely now that I see and I understand it, but I just don't think that My Fi is actually in a higher position overall than my Te.
I might want to elaborate it any further but I clearly don't see any point in doing so when I thought it's obvious, but it doesn't mean that I don't respect your own typing. I do value it but if you were to ask my opinion, then I'd say Gamma > Beta for the whole thing in general, as for the type, you'd probably know what type I was trying to impose at this point, and I don't think it's that oblivious as well.Yeah, so if it is between Gamma NT and Delta ST, then I say that Gamma NT > Delta ST. I don't think that my Nx functions are weak enough to be Delta ST either, overall though.I wouldn't say Gamma SF or Delta NF, SLE is way more reasonable but I don't think Fi PoLR.
Choke on the kernels
Yeah, I think that comparison against someone else of X type is stupid to start with because of the other elements/components of type. You have a subtype, enneagram, DCNH (if you agree with that), etc. So, technically someone who is SEE-Se-D 8w7 is going to be different than a SEE-Fi-C-4w3, etc, despite sharing the same sociotype. Maybe there are some vague similarities, but it's not always going to add up exactly. I agree. Se isn't exactly the best function you can see directly online (but you could also argue that about some other functions too). Functions that rely on the environment and not on actual rationality are harder to see on forums and online.
I don't care about self-improvement, to be honest. I'd rather things be as accurate as they can, over self improvement. I don't think that self care or self improvement matters in the long term when you make more than enough mistakes to countereract it. I like to know facts and I like things to be accurate. I lik to figure them out, and I want them to make sense and be consistent. I don't don't care what effects my spirit. I just don't see the point in wasting it on pointless stuff. Time is short. 24 hours in a day, not 48 or 72. I put no effort into myself. It's not natural for me to. I don't care about recognition to be honest, in that way. Self improvement is not a priority and it's kinda something that I tend to struggle with.Qualities are distinct to you. I believe that an easy/straightforward understanding of what you can personally "glean" from something (understanding how it effects your spirit and wanting less or more of it) is indicative of strong Fi. You seem to be able to verbalise fluidly what you can take and leave about subjects. Fi being a "mental" function for you is supported by my assumption that Te is amongst your "vital" functions and valued. When I think of mobilising function I imagine it being the one you direct "self improvement/realisation" toward. It feels nice to receive recognition here because of the effort you put in.
I don't need help with Te, to be honest. I don't think that I struggle with it at all, and I also don't think that I am all that good at Fi (we're going to look at Aushra's definition of Fi, by the way):Suggestive I think it is the one you can adapt to life without (find workarounds for) but it feels like a blessing when someone does the legwork for you in this area. And that gets you thinking about how much your life/experience could open up and be changed if you could mimic that quality you notice in others. Suggestive function is the one you look up to, if there's someone you admire... perhaps. My experience with SEE is that their creative Fi helps them to discern whether an occasion is worth making the extra effort, in terms of oomph with their personal styling/presentation. Valued Ni would be about knowing to present a certain way today, to secure opportunities down the line. ..being a memorable person for good reasons is important. I'm not sure whether you need pointers when it comes to painting a picture of future scenarios so that you can act smarter today. You seem quite adept at that already (projecting scenarios).
Fi is a very people-based function. It's humanistic in nature, and not geared towards the objectivity spectrum. It's about ethics, relations, and all the stuff and not just making random opinions at times. I'm lacking the actual human element of creative Fi (or Fi in general) when I try and use it, but I still think Fi creative as a whole function is much more nuanced than anything I've really used on Discord and on here.This is the subjective relationship between two carriers of potential or kinetic energy that shows the level of attraction (or repulsion) between one object or subject and another object or subject. Thanks to this IM element a person feels which objects attract him and which repel him. You might say that this perceptual element conveys information about objects' need or lack of need of each other and about the presence or absence of mutual or one-way needs. Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.
When this perceptual element is in the leading position, the individual possesses the innate ability to perceive and evaluate wishes/desires — both his own and others'. He always knows who wants what from whom. He is able to set his awareness of subjective reality and his wishes in opposition to those of others. He has the ability to mould and perfect both his own and others' wishes. He possesses both the ability to provide himself with necessary relationships with others and confidence in his capacity to influence other people. His correct perception of human needs allows him to avoid risky collisions when satisfying his own needs. This engenders the ability to manipulate people's attachments, and the ability and desire to influence people's ethical feelings and bring these feelings closer to societal ideals.
If you look at Fi as the I don't care if people like me or not function alone, that's the problem. It's much more than just that.
I don't put any real emphasis on presenting a certain way. I don't focus on or think about being memorable. I don't actually think about myself in relation to others, or others in relation to myself at much at all. I actually don't really care if I ever see another person again, and I don't care if I never interact with one again either. It's not a focus, and neither are relations or coming across as X to people. I don't see maintaining and working on relations as an actual assistance or for the sake of making them. I don't keep up much with people I know, to be honest.
I've actually never been close to anyone, nor been able to make the effort to do so. I have no idea about the distance between relations between people. Whatever stuff I do with Fi is shallow and not very healthy, to be honest. I don't actually enjoy using it at all.
So if you take the element and make it 'creative' and 3D (not in a leading position), it is still going to be pretty strong, right? It's not going to be what person X leads their life with. It's going to be a tool of some sorts to them, to assist Pe (Ne and Se):
It says that the individual is very adept at maintaining, perceiving and establishing personal bonds between people, and I am not. I don't know how to make those situational either. I don't focus on establishing personal bonds with people, and I don't intend to. I don't see the point in actually creating bonds for aiding social status, or to discuss ideas with people. If I have to go to talk to someone, it's not about making bonds, it's about a means to an end mostly.The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function. The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.
I don't understand the whole inconsistency thing either. I can't keep up with it and I don't get close to many people because it's forever changing. It's stupid. Why even bother in the first place? Honestly? I'm just getting slightly better at the whole ethical thing than when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I didn't make any personal bonds or connections, and I frequently said things that 'hurt' peoples feelings and I didn't know why (e.g. I said something at a dinner party once and made someone cry, and I was made to apologize. It was a joke gone wrong).
I still do have these moments from time to time. When I was around 19-20, I started to open up a bit more, but I'm still pretty robotic when it comes to relations and personal interactions with the people around me. I also am disorientated when I end up in that realm for too long you know? It's not really a natural part of me, and hasn't really been for as long as I can remember.
I've never once been in an actual relationship before, and I don't intend to be in one. I don't see it ending well at all, based on my previous track record, and on how I function within the ethical realm (if even at all good). I don't think I have been using either Fx function deeply at all, or have a good grasp of it (as in 3D usage).
I don't feel things at all easily (I'm also not really expressive to be honest), and I'm not an overly sentimental person. This piece of the puzzle just doesn't fit, in regards to me being a highly ethical person. I don't know what X wants off Y and why most of the time. I'm not really clued in in real life. Socialising is a bit of a wobbly spot for me, but I'm getting much better at it now than before, I do admit that. But I still have a long way to go.
Out of all the functions, I'd honestly say that I struggle with properly using and understanding Fi and Si the most. I honestly don't know how people are getting the idea that I am somehow Fi creative type, and how they are assuming that about me just because I hold these things called opinions (which everyone happens to hold, by the way). Oh, and because I'm 'not friendly'. To me, those things are actually NTR.
Who says that I don't need reminders? I don't know what has resonance to other people and why most of the time. I don't know what runs deep within me, aside from heartburn and a sore stomach. Your Dad is also an Si creative. LSE is a very different type of high Te user from LIE, and from Pe base (xLE), all which have 4D Te that works differently depending on the position (demonstrative/base).I can see Te being your mobilizing function because you can expand on the subject but don't seem to be entrenched in that worldview day to day. Being entrenched in Te would be taking one functional, impersonal action after another and needing reminders from loved ones as to why this has resonance to others, as to you, deep inside. e. g. my LSE dad. It's difficult for me to see you as having Te-ego.
I don't know about this. In a way, you can argue that SLE/LSI are abstract because they have valued abstract logic (Ti) high in their stack, Se and Role Ne, and are concerned with abstract systems, abstract principles etc. Why does my Te have to be mobilising because I don't 'seem like' your LSE Dad? (just asking).You don't seem to value Se as I have come to expect from an Se-ego type. Or, you seem to interact with what's going on around you with Ne before Se. Your pragmatism can come from being an extrovert (not stuck in your head) and having valued, mobilising Te. There are steps missing in my thought process but I think your type could be IEE
Yeah, I would say that there are steps missing in your thought process. You haven't really given me a good argument, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. I don't think IEE is likely though, knowing what I know now.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Just keep in mind that I was trying to emphasize Ti in general, LSI's Ti is more automated while LII's is rather manual, in a way.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Oh yeah, I know. Ti creative and HA are a whole another beast, though. I agree that I am most likely not Ti base.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Sorry for not responding sooner - when I first read your reply I didn't know what to say.
The point you made above, about a system being agreed upon (consensus) along with your comment about separating the bits into something useful; removing unnecessary complication, made me think of valued Te. The chicken bone analogy made me think of Ne.
To continue with that line of thinking - it could make socionics more useful if you agree on the border at which a person's discernable output stops being related to cognitive functions and has more to do with enneagram, but that is a challenge. It could take years to learn how a certain function manifests in a real person and then to determine whether or not the function you have discerned is in their ego block.
You would first have to learn the theory and then observe a wide range of people, only for someone to arrive in your life who disproves what you thought you previously understood about a type.
I do agree that if you understand enneagram 4w3 in isolation from the "SEE-Fi" and "C" bits then you can understand what makes 4w3 precisely that.
By doing so (learning enneagram) maybe the core type SEE becomes bolder, easier to observe in somebody. But in which order do I have to learn the systems to be doing it right, and is it only after I learn *all* the other systems that I will be knowledgeable enough to type somebody?
The DCNH system seems to be more based on the kind of objectivity you're wanting to achieve, because it is placing people by the role they find themselves doing. Whether someone is more initiating than terminating can be more easily documented by an outsider observer than to what degree they extrovert their feelings (e. g. is that role Fe, or Creative?)
Taking stock of mistakes and seeing them just for what they are can be helpful. If a joke you tell doesn't go down well and in hindsight you can look back and objectively figure out what led to the misunderstanding, you gain something. This is not a dedicated self-improvement activity but the memories you make build your character, so there is no "net loss", in my opinion (referring back to what you say about efforts being counteracted).
I'm not going to dismiss what you said about finding it difficult to orient yourself in relations or to begin one in the first place. You sound very adamant about that.
If you think that Fi for you is valued, but weak, does the description of Fi-suggestive from the sociotype website feel familiar to you?
I'm not sure if I am accurate in saying this, but I think Fi-suggestive in a person can manifest in them being concerned that a family member might take offense to their practical directives/suggestions (deeds) without that being the Te-leading person's intention.
They may worry this: did they or did they not cross the line with somebody? They hope the person will provide reassurance that is not the case (e. g. turn up to their event; answer their call and seem talkative; an Fi lead theoretically would be consistent and not suddenly go cold on them. And if they do go cold, the Te lead wants to understand why so that can be avoided in the future (?) )
When you say you don't really maintain relationships - it does sound like you have a lot of projects, interests and hobbies - working on those might take up a lot of your free time, and in addition, they sound solitary in nature.
To explain why it's probably easier for me to list out some things my dad does, things which could be ascribed to Te.
When a conversation has to do with speculative subjects or viewpoints that have not been visibly proven in the world yet he becomes skeptical in his replies and then he'll abruptly end the conversation by saying he has something important that needs attending to. He tirelessly repairs, re-jigs and makes constant adjustments to things to reduce the chance of stress and an unpleasant outcome for my mum and I.
He tends to be motivated more by what seems sensible, than a personal desire or whim to do one thing over another. Example; If he checks the forecast and gale is blowing from the North he will go to fly his model planes, but if the gale is blowing from the South he will go for a bike ride and choose a route that means he has to cycle against the wind as little as possible. If circumstances prevent an activity from going well he always has plan B, C, D and E waiting to be realised. I've never witnessed him be outwardly indecisive.
In your questionnaire you come across as a person who seems more "flexible" and less algorythmic in exploring what interests you, as in, your interests and passions have more say in your path. That's why I thought you could appreciate someone's input to the structure and realisation side - someone to whom that is effortless. (Te mobilising (? ).
I feel that you've stated your case for having stronger Te than Fi from every possible angle and it is hard for me to keep up. I could have been influenced by other peoples' typing of you.
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