New model for type

[Hugo]

I've come up with a model for type. Tell me what you think.

Here is an example for INTj:

Introverted bias

Strong Conscious T

Mid Conscious N + F

Weak Conscious S



Here is the same for INTp:
Introverted bias
Strong Conscious N
Mid Conscious S + T
Weak Conscious F

INFj:
Introverted bias
Strong Conscious F
Mid Conscious N + T
Weak Conscious S

INFp:
Introverted bias
Strong Conscious N
Mid Conscious S + F
Weak Conscious T

ENTp:
Extroverted bias
Strong Conscious N
Mid Conscious S + T
Weak Conscious F

[MysticSonic]

This falls back on your point that Introversion isn't an intrinsic part of the functions; if we disagreed with that model, why would we agree, or why would I, agree with this model?

[Hugo]

This falls back on your point that Introversion isn't an intrinsic part of the functions; if we disagreed with that model, why would we agree, or why would I, agree with this model?

You might not agree with the 'Jung point' that I previously made, but this model could still work.

Let me explain the model.

The part that probably needs the most explaining is the mid-consious part. The mid conscious consists of a rational and irrational component; both are of similiar strength within a person. However the rational component is suppressed if the strong consious is rational. Similarly the irrational component is suppressed if the strong consious is irrational.

The strong consious is not suppressed and the weak consious is suppressed.

The INTj has more "feeling ability" than "sensing ability". This would mean that he has some leaning toward people and feelings. As the "feeling ability" take priority over the "sensing ability", the INTj is hardly active or practical.

In light of the above, INTp's have hardly any leaning towards people and feelings, but they have leaning towards being practical and active.

Also INTj's (compared to INTp's) are more introverted because they are stronger thinkers and less practical & active. Accordingly, INTp's are more extroverted than INTj's.

The INTj's "intuition ability" and "feeling ability" are of similar strength. The INTp's "sensing ability" and "thinking ability" are of similar strength.

DUALITY
Duality can be explained through my model.

E and I creates duality

F (suppressed) and T (suppressed) on the same level of consiousness creates duality

F (non-suppressed) and T (non-suppressed) on the same level of consiousness creates duality

N (suppressed) and S (suppressed) on the same level of consiousness creates duality

N (non-suppressed) and S (non-suppressed) on the same level of consiousness creates duality

Here are the models for INTj and ESFj.

Model for INTj
Bias: Introversion
Strong Conscious: T (non-suppressed)
Mid Conscious: N (non-suppressed) + F (suppressed)
Weak Conscious: S (suppressed)

Model for ESFj
Bias: Extroversion
Strong Conscious: F (non-suppressed)
Mid Conscious: S (non-suppressed) + T (suppressed)
Weak Conscious: N (suppressed)

I would like to make an additional point by using the example of duality between INTj and ESFj:

T (suppressed in ESFj in mid-conscious) is responsive to T (non-suppressed in INTj in strong-consious)
F (suppressed in INTj in mid-conscious) is responsive to F (non-suppressed in ESFj in mid-conscious)
N (suppressed in ESFj in weak-conscious) is responsive to N (non-suppressed in INTj in mid-conscious)
S (suppressed in INTj in weak-conscious) is responsive to S (non-suppressed in ESFj in mid-conscious)

[Ave]

hugo please stop talking as if you knew the slightest thing about INTPs. many of us have very low self confidence. i do and so does cone according to what he says. this is why i stopped liking you in the first place because you always act like you know about INTPs and act like they have less problems then INTJs. I hope my saying this does not cast any doubts on your feelings of being more special and unique than others. anyone can suffer from a certain problem and im frankly getting a bit sick of hearing intjs acting like all their problems and low self confidence was due to their type while intps supposedly do not suffer from these problems.

i hate to attack your base motivation for writing this post instead of attacking your arguements directly, but I feel I have a point.

INTJs can stand up for themselves without using , all they have to do is use . ENFJs are in conflicts all the time if you notice. POLR and can cause as much lack of self confidence as POLR . In fact any POLR function can cause lack of self confidence in the area it pertains to. Im trying not to be heartless towards INTJ problems as they are very real but dont act like your the only one who has problems and like your somehow "special".

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[stefana]

ANY type can be shy, infact, shyness can hurt the extrovert the most, since they have thier "reality" rooted in the world outside of them. Introverts can sometimes care less about what people think of them, and they will be introverted for another reason than just pure shyness.

Many times (especially for intuitives), the extroverts will seem like introverts, and the introverts will seem like extroverts.

Exactly.

[Hugo]

Cheerio: You have inaccurately estimated me, but thank you for your openess. I could explain why your estimation is inaccurate, but I feel this is unnecessary. I think it is better that you only say where I have gone wrong. Try not to talk as if you know what I am thinking, because you don't. I have edited my emplanation above. Please tell me if you have any other concerns. Thank you. :wink:

Transigent said:
Actually, many INTj's go through a partying extroverted phase before they decide that they should move on to bigger and better things. Some of the more developed INTj's can be very "socially lubricating" and extroverted.

"Outgoingness" to my knowledge of socionics is irrelevant to Extroversion. However in MBTI, outgoingness is a factor.

I think that creates more absent-mindedness than as is a rational function and is therefore more intense.

Hetrovert means "One extravert and one introvert. More varied relationships where partners try to change each other and the relationship in a variety of ways."

So I don't know where Hetroversion fits in. But as you say, it's just for fun.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Ave]

Ok Hugo. It looks fine, as long as no type is portrayed as having worse problems than another, not because of political correctness, but because every type really does have a zone of insecurity and low self esteem. Even thought some types, like ESTPs dont come off as having a vulnerable zone, they do.

As far as the structure of your model is concerned, I dont think there is much of a difference in strength between the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th function, its just like a staircase you climb down as you go up in numbers, each function being one step weaker than the previous one. Therefore, since that was the point of the model A, to show how the third function is as weak in comparison to the second function as the second function is weak in comparison to the first, it doesnt make much sense to me to emphasize the difference in strength between the 1st and 2nd and not the 2nd and 3rd.

Although I agree that the fourth and sixth functions tend to be the weakest, and weaker in comparison to the 3rd and 5th. So INTJs for example have an advantage over INTPs in terms of understanding the affective aspects of relationships, but INTPs have an advantage over INTJs in terms of anything practical and physical. And even though the advantage is not considerable, it can be noticeabale, and maybe it would be useful to create a model emphasizing the difference between the 3rd/5th function and the 4th/6th function without giving the impression there is no difference in strength between the 2nd/7th function and the 3rd/5th function. What do you think?

[Hugo]

Transigent: Is that stuff you put up about absent mindedness your own theory?

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Hugo]

Cheerio:

In my model, what I am saying is that the 2nd and 3rd functions have a similar amount of presence in the mind. In the mid-consious, one function is rational and the other function is irrational, and I don't see any need/benefit to differentiate between them.

My model makes the difference between (for example) INTp and INTj clear in a way that (perhaps) Model A doesn’t.

The fact that Model A contains 8 functions makes Model A unnecessarily complicated.

I don’t see the benefit/need to emphasize the difference between the 3rd/5th functions and the 4th/6th functions of Model A.

What do you think?

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Ave]

Cheerio:

In my model, what I am saying is that the 2nd and 3rd functions have a similar amount of presence in the mind.

Not in mine :wink:

In the mid-consious, one function is rational and the other function is irrational, and I don't see any need/benefit to differentiate between them.

I do, because its one of the pieces of the puzzle that explains why duality works so well.

My model makes the difference between (for example) INTp and INTj clear in a way that (perhaps) Model A doesn’t.

What Im suggesting is that perhaps you could make another model which would accentuate the difference between INTJ and INTP without losing track of the fact that the second and third functions have a difference in strength.

The fact that Model A contains 8 functions makes Model A unnecessarily complicated.

Not necessarily. I can be used under some circumstances, under others I agree that there are other models which can replace it.

I don’t see the benefit/need to emphasize the difference between the 3rd/5th functions and the 4th/6th functions of Model A.

What do you think?

Maybe. If your point is to emphasize the difference between quasi identicals, maybe, but other than that it seems kind of pointless. But thats my opinion. If this model works for you then thats fine, but to me it doesnt correspond to my experiences. :wink:

[Hugo]

Cheerio:

Please see my second posting above which I have edited. It discusses the points you have raised including duality. You may agree that my model explains (better than Model A) why duality works.

You said that I:

could make another model which would accentuate the difference between INTJ and INTP without losing track of the fact that the second and third functions have a difference in strength.

According to my model, the two functions in the mid-conscious have a similar amount of presence in the mind. However, one of the functions in the mid-concious is suppressed and the other is non-suppressed.

Tell me what you think on the whole.

[Ave]

What do you mean by "suppressed", and how does this differ from "weak conscious"?

[Hugo]

Consciousness is to do presence in mind.

So for an INTj, F has more presence in the mind than S. However, S and F are both suppressed in an INTj.

T is in the strong conscious and is non-suppressed, however F is clouded specifically by T because T and F are do to with rationality. Because F is clouded by T, F has less of a presence in the mind than T. The same principle applies to S and N.