ESFjs: your opinion on your INTj duals being revolutionaries?

[UDP]

I am curious about this....

Because, we ought to know by now that INTjs are revolutionaries --- how does that work in with the ESFj, their dual? Would an ESFj be able to commit to a cause along side of the INTj, and offer their support? Would they enjoy that?

I've met a wide range of ESFjs, and I cannot tell how to approach this.
I wonder if it is more ENFj. But then again, I was approached by an ExFj today, and we spoke about some of this stuff briefly, and I don't know, maybe I saw some sparks of duality. Not as in relationship, no, but in a sort of psychological way. I've felt a lot of psychological distance from ESFjs in the past, and that was dissapointing. But the that she was tossing out was catching me off guard, and making me act like a typical INTj, explaining too much, etc. So I wonder about this person.

She'd be an ESxj who's taking physics. Theorietically, I'd think of her as ENFj, but knowing her a little, she could be ESFj. She moves and acts, and with her burst today, reminded me of a few ESFjs I knew.

I'm wondering, to return to main point, how ESFjs tend to feel about revolution, and positive change, etc.



PS: the reason I used my friend as an example is because she seemed like an ESFj, but concerned about the future, and doing the right thing. Spent the summer volunteering with green peace.

[UDP]

Those "supposed tos" may go against the grain of the culture in which they reside and can lead them to be quite counter cultural. For example when esfjs immigrate to another country they tend to keep their cultural traditions alive even if this sets them apart from other people. Another example could be being the best friend of someone who is unpopular and not giving a damn what other people think about it (once they have decided that this is what they will do).

This was from the other thread, before I even had this thread in mind... but it seems to fit there, too.

[Creepy-pokeball]

In the theory of Socionics, I had always assumed that the Alpha SF's would be the one's to adopt and use the new ideas and objects in daily life most readily.

[MrCrumbles]

Personally I would much rather have an ENFj by my side. They can do everything an ESFj can do in terms of motivating people and cracking the whip, but while keeping the bigger picture in mind, which would be key to our communication and understanding. In other words, the ENFj would be the link between my ideas for the organization/revolution and their application to the people involved.

[Logos]

The problem with an ENFj though is that they will push their idea and not yours. Your original idea will be bastardized for the purpose of helping people reach their "full potential."

[UDP]

what's wrong with getting people to their full potential?

I wonder about ENFjs, but I don't like betas, really. If I could get a cool subtype ESFj who would want to work with me, and maybe even take care of me a little, that would be cool

[Logos]

what's wrong with getting people to their full potential?

When the idea of a person's full potential clashes or contradicts the ENFj's envisionment of a person's full potential. Let's take the INTj and the ENFj as the examples. The INTj is very goal oriented and generally has clear objectives that they try to achieve. They are also very independent and quite stubborn. Enter the ENFj. Let us say that the INTj's goal is to obtain X, but the point which the ENFj wants the INTj to obtain is Y. To the ENFj, X represents what they see as the full potential of the INTj. The INTj, however, does not want to obtain Y as a goal, but X. The ENFj will push where the INTj refuses to go, which will inevitably result in a conflict of interests. The difference is that the INTj pursues the full potential of themselves and an abstract idea, whereas the ENFj may pursue the full potential of themselves and others as they perceive it.

[MrCrumbles]

I think it's a good idea to establish a hierarchy where you, the INTj, are an authority over the ENFj. She is your right hand man, but defers to your orders. Which is fine because ENFj's are excellent at following orders, at least if presented in a considerate manner and they are orders the ENFj can get behind emotionally. I think if both parties start out on equal footing, however, this relationship will develop naturally anyway. The INTj will not allow his visionary ideas to be challenged, and the ENFj is eager to please, especially her superiors. This extraverted judging nature will drive her to focus on the implementation of others' plans. In this case the INTj.

So I don't think an ENFj is at a disadvantage compared to an ESFj in this situation because she may have a conflicting vision of her own (Y as opposed to X), for the above reasons. She will use her intuition to support the INTj's plans.