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Thread: Si vulnerable / painful PoLR function of ENTjs and ENFjs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marietta View Post
    One 100% ENFJ coworker I know can forget that she has to piss for an hour. then she would say "oh, I forgot I had to go to the toilet an hour ago" and laugh about it. When she is ill, she doesn't really take care of herself until it's really bad.
    I do this with hunger as well as having to use the bathroom on a regular basis. The bathroom one not as much.

    She buys a lof of food, and when it goes over its "best before" date, she still won't throw it away unless it walks away by itself. Once she kept a sausage in the fridge for a long time, it began to turn white and she just washed the white off in the running water and then ate the sausage and gave me half of it as takeaway
    Gnarly.. I would never.

    She gives a lot of the food away, trying to take care for people in that matter. When people say they don't need it or simply don't eat the kind of thing that she offers she would rant a lot about people being spoiled brats or say nothing but then whisper silent curses on a side. it spoils her mood. the perspective that someone could be picky about their food makes her feel tense.
    Meh, who cares, but ftr, I'm absolutely not in the least bit picky about food other than maybe health aspects. If it doesn't make me physically cringe, gag, or puke, and it's healthy, I'll eat it. I'm not super finicky about it being healthy either. Taste is a distant 4th priority after health, cost, and effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    PoLR using the wikipedia socionics Rly-Bad-At method:

    Rly-Bad-At perception of physical sensations.

    Rly-Bad-At creating comfort, coziness, and pleasure
    Sure

    Rly-Bad-At sensing harmony and acclimation with one's environment
    (especially physical)

    Rly-Bad-At understanding how well a person or thing's behavior agrees with its nature

    Rly-Bad-At understanding the differences between comfortable behaviors and positions and uncomfortable ones.
    I'm not sure if I relate to these, but mostly because I'm not sure what you mean.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 07-19-2011 at 07:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marietta View Post
    yes. with fresh food, and it IS VERY GROSS for me, I'm super sensitive with that kind of stuff, one day after best before and I am already not going to eat it . but she seems really blind to that,since she even gives this kind of food to people with obviously good intentions... I think it's also about twisted 'being practical, economical, not-throwing-food-away-when-somewhere-people-starve' approach, but there's also a huge obliviousness to it.

    anyway, I've found sth like this in Stratievskaya EIE description: "It occurs, it does not turn attention to the quality of products and it can without ceremony cut into the lettuce of the rotted vegetables" - it corresponds perfectly to my coworker

    I hope that there are few people like that and they are not having anything to do with food I eat, regardless their type. Amen.
    My IEE roommate is the same way. She'll just place food in the fridge and forget about it, then kind of rediscover it later when it is probably not the best idea to consider it food anymore. Some things she seems to just completely forget about so when they gain sentience I'll trash them. Theoretically she is supposed to value Si way more than I do, so I don't think this behavior is related to Si.

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    i love how in all these threads people describe how some socionics thing manifests for them and i can always relate to like half of it no matter what is being described. not just this thread but in general. are we all clamoring to be validated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i love how in all these threads people describe how some socionics thing manifests for them and i can always relate to like half of it no matter what is being described. not just this thread but in general. are we all clamoring to be validated?
    I know right, most of these "polr" functions can be expressed in any type.
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    My EIE mom's attempt at Christmas decoration: a purple paper star lamp attached to a homemade candlestick with masking tape. The wire used to be more visible but she fixed it with tape because I laughed at it so bad.

    Last edited by willekeurig; 12-03-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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    Thanks, Agarina, Si polr people are truly fucked.

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    Ah, the anti-sentimentality switch.

    My ESE mother spent many years teaching me to throw away anything which wasn't of immediate, practical value. I adhere to this doctrine, it has it's practical merits; but it used to caused my IEE ex-fiance incredible stress to see birthday/christmas cards and gifts become instantly disposable if not to see them generally unappreciated simply as a matter of principle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    My EIE mom's attempt at Christmas decoration: a purple paper star lamp attached to an homemade candlestick with masking tape. The wire used to be more visible but she fixed it with tape because I laughed at it so bad.
    My mum has now negotiated Christmas down to a gold candle on the kitchen table, expressedly with no tinsel. (Who needs the mess that tinsel makes, rrriiiiggghtt!?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    People with Ni in Ego block don't REALLY exist. They imagine themselves in this world. They don't really have a body, in stead they imagine a body in the world that also barely exists. That is why we don't notice our surroundings that well. (Can't explain it any better). So if you tell them that they have imagined the key player the wrong way, it feels like the Matrix scenario. It makes me give the feeling, "is nothing real anymore, do I even know ANYTHING about the world, anything about anything?..." And it shuts me up. It feels like PoLR probably should feel.
    Wow...bravo, really struck a chord with me. What a great description.

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    Dropping things, breaking the nth pair of glasses that month, can't be trusted with anything more delicate than a crowbar. Only care about the cleanliness or condition of their surroundings as far as how it looks on the surface. I was in LIE's house, and while everything looked clean if you touched the wall it would leave a powdery residue on your skin. Obsessed with wealth, power and influence. Somewhat terrified of exotic or unfamiliar food and drink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nefnaf View Post
    I was in LIE's house, and while everything looked clean if you touched the wall it would leave a powdery residue on your skin.
    Ya I do that. You´re kind of prissy though, going to acquaintances´ houses checking out in detail if they´re clean or not...

    Obsessed with wealth, power and influence.
    Why would this signal lack of ?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Why would this signal lack of ?
    Si PoLR => Se HA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Ya I do that. You´re kind of prissy though, going to acquaintances´ houses checking out in detail if they´re clean or not...
    I just absent-mindedly leaned on the wall, only to find my hand covered with a chalky substance...

    Why would this signal lack of ?
    It probably has more to do with hidden agenda, but the two are inextricably linked. It's likely that these types can't or aren't willing to internally gauge how comfortable or content they are, so they rely on external measures instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nefnaf View Post
    I just absent-mindedly leaned on the wall, only to find my hand covered with a chalky substance...
    You do know that some walls are kinda chalky, it doesn´t mean they are dirty?

    It probably has more to do with hidden agenda, but the two are inextricably linked. It's likely that these types can't or aren't willing to internally gauge how comfortable or content they are, so they rely on external measures instead.
    Fair enough, this reasoning makes sense. Although personally I don´t care at all about power, mostly about money.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Haven't you heard? MONEY = POWER!
    And bitches, ya ya
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Si PoLR

    I've been wondering, what is it like, especially in LIEs, in real life, how it affects their behaviour and their processing of information? Si PoLR has always been a sort of enigma to me. I'd be happy to read what users have to say about this, and also links for further info. Thank you.

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    Found this:


    (breakdown of elements) symbol name of element code description
    characteristics of objects and their motion — "extraverted" elements

    static, irrational elements (objects at rest)

    Ne Extraverted intuition potentiality intuition internal content of objects
    potentiality of objects: inherent possibilities, purpose, abilities, talents, content, values

    Se Extraverted sensing volitional sensing external situation of objects
    outward traits of objects: form, shape, strength, power, readiness, willpower, mobilization, the location of objects in space

    dynamic, rational elements (objects in motion)

    Te Extraverted logic algorithmic logic external activity of objects
    external activity of objects: events (what, how, where), activity, behavior, algorithms

    Fe Extraverted ethics emotive ethics internal activity of objects internal activity of objects: internal processes, mood, emotional activity and arousability, emotional content
    characteristics of fields (interaction between objects) and their motion — "introverted" elements

    dynamic, irrational elements (fields in motion)

    Ni Introverted intuition temporal intuition abstract processes of fields intangible connections between processes separated in time and space: sense of when things might happen, patterns of events, abstract representations of processes
    Si Introverted sensing experiential sensing concrete processes of fields tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time: how events affect one's inner state; sensations, what one experiences physically
    static, rational elements (fields at rest)

    Ti Introverted logic structural logic objective situation of fields logical relationships between objects: systems of rules and categories, hierarchies, comparisons of quantifiable properties, logical judgments
    Fi Introverted ethics relational ethics subjective situation of fields subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals, subjective judgments

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    I've been having lots of deja-vus. This has nothing to do with any drug use or abuse, I've been off any of those for 9 months and half. I thought this may have to do with Ni.

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    It's hard for me to trace exactly what is related to my Si polr and what strictly applies to me so I will just list off some things that I've noticed.

    I'm a bit of a hypochondriac.

    I can be extremely uncomfortable for long periods without really thinking about it, but there are some things that I really can't handle. Like getting into cold water is absolutely dreadful to me. Also I was a terribly picky eater growing up because some food, even somewhat normal stuff, just made me want to throw up.

    I also don't really know how to expedite physical processes. I remember my EII friend worked at a tire warehouse. He had to be shown how to bounce the tire off of another tire in order to make it easier to lift. That's not something I would've ever thought about if I were in that position. My LSE father always has to show me things like that.

    I find really ridiculous ways to get around things that would have a quick fix if I would just bother to think about it.

    I notice people in my environment, but I don't always notice things so I can tend to bump into stuff I don't see. I used to do this very frequently. I'm not as bad as I used to be.

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    Here's an example.
    Last year, I was editing a video I made..and I sat in the same position for 8 hours straight and didn't notice.
    But when I got up to go to sleep, I couldn't even walk because my knees would barely unlock from the position they had been in all day.
    *sigh*

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    I see Ni related to trance-states. I once in a while get into a sort of self-absorption which I link to Ni. Though this is hard for me, it's the core of my spiritual practice which is very much Buddhist. So these trance and somewhat numbed-out states I relate to Ni. Perhaps Ni-PoLR is what gives me a hell of a mental confusion most of the times that I tried to smoke weed. Because weed is so much Ni/Fe ime.
    My dad is ILI and he does bump into objects but he definitely has a body at least I can see it clearly lol. Anyway he seems somewhat detached from his body most of the time, like some awkward movements, even though he used to be a pro swimmer and part of the army when he was young, he got out of the Army as Lieutenant. I see in this a great dualization he accomplished.
    But somehow Ni is still a sort of transcendental IE, and I guess all spirituality that is actually spiritual deals with developing one's Ni and Ne to some extent. Other more primitive types of spirituality deal with developing Se and Fi, such as in some of the major monotheistic religions and their emphasis on morals, willpower, war, etc.

    added: I can't handle too much heat (above 25ºC), I like cool or cold temperatures, and I can't sleep well unless the bed is really comfortable. But to me this always pointed to strong and valued Si , not Si-PoLR. Some of the statements made on MacBain's linked thread about Si Polr are just what is to me Si-valueing and or strong Si. So you see, there is this confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Si PoLR? Yeah, not really knowing what my physical presence is, so I find people who comment on my looks to be awkward because I can't verify what they're saying. Constant physical uneasiness, especially in the abdomen/intestines. Being capable of sitting in one place and not moving where I become so immersed in something that I sometimes neglect to eat. I'm a bit of a hypochondriac too, mainly because I can't tell what my body is doing. I love the cold, hate the heat. I'm a picky eater. I have tremendous difficulty conversing with medical professionals because I generally don't know what to say. My clothing situation has always been dire. I generally despise doing housework even though I'm kind of OCD about cleanliness. Loads of sleep issues, especially when younger, i.e. insomnia big time. I need details of things like directions, step by step processes, and the like all written down.
    Ok going on a non-theoretical Socionics approach to Si-PoLR... I relate to most of what you wrote, except for the directions (I get located in a new town/city very easily for example moved here 2 months ago and already know the whole neighbourhood plus the vicinity two ones and the best routes downtown, know the new streets by name as the streets here have names instead of numbers so I'm ok with that). Love cold hate heat, unable to sleep in heat, insomnia, disturbed sleep cycles, being restless, uneasy in the belly, being able to sit and do work or some interesting thing for hours without interruption getting immersed in things, but I think here the main thing is the word 'immersed'.

    As in trance-like states I would often find my ILI dad in, looking at a void, eyes seemingly on another world, sitting on a couch, with a book or a newspaper by his side. I would as a child get scared when I got up in the middle of the night and the living room was all dark and there he was like in a trance his eyes open seeming other-worldly. When asked, he'd just answer he 'was thinking'. I have this nowadays, I wonder what the hell is this and how it relates to Ni. Definitely he was not 'thinking', the impression I get from these things is like being in a hypnotic self-absorbtion pleasant state where you're accessing your so-called 'unconscious' or spiritual side, or rather being accessed by it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    I need details of things like directions, step by step processes, and the like all written down.
    i have the exact same issue. I wondered if other Si polrs have the same issues since ENxjs tend to hide their flaws. I have to have extreme focus to get to somewhere I've never been before, even if it's not super hard to get to, because I just don't have a good visual map of the streets generally. If there is anyone else in the car I can pretty much guarantee I won't be finding where I need to go because of the distraction they pose.

    More Si polr things:

    I constantly have some sort of sickness such as a sinus infection or something, and if I'm not sick I'm probably having sleep issues.

    I don't get attached to food. I was diagnosed with a gluten allergy and, even though bread is practically my favorite food, the transition was pretty easy. All of my sensory friends can't believe that it doesn't bother me, in fact, I think my LSE roommate thinks I'm dying on the inside or something.
    Last edited by Contra; 04-24-2015 at 06:00 PM.

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    I need absolute silence to take a shit.

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    McBain kind of covered the rest but:

    I also hate cooking. I pretty much eat the same thing everyday, which is just chicken strips I heat up in the oven. Literally the only other thing I make is burgers which I make in a skillet. I have no desire to get fancy with recipes. It seems like a waste of time. I wear the same type of clothing most days. It takes me an absurdly long amount of time to choose clothing everyday because I'm just battling the temptation to wear what I wore two days ago. My problem with dressing is that I have a harder time judging whether what I'm wearing is appropriate for the occasion. I know how to dress well, but I can just feel a bit overdressed if I do. I know how to dress casual and make it look acceptable, but I don't know how to make it look good. That may actually relate more to ethics vs. logic, but I don't know.

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    not liking to cook is NTR imo. just my $0.02. but while we're at it, i dislike cooking too.

    that said, i think there maybe is something to be said for tastes and what one does tend to cook (when one does). i've noticed people making associations before between weak and cooking the same limited things all the time (not being able to imagine other combinations or to think to try something different or new); and between unvalued and/or weak and not caring to eat a variety of foods (the same thing every day, for every meal, is fine). there could be something to these associations.

    or polr = boring eaters/boredom in the kitchen

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    Well the more I read the more I'm convinced I'm not Si PoLR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Well the more I read the more I'm convinced I'm not Si PoLR.
    Just based on VI and some of your posts, as tenuous as it is, I'd say you're not. It's worth noting there are some similarities in behavior I've noticed between LSEs (possibly ESEs too) and Si polr. The behaviors are just rooted in different causes.

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    From LIEs I've known over the years- their Si PoLr seemed to manifest in an all or nothing mentality ..in regards to food, partying, exercise...etc. It was challenging for them to find balance and see the value in moderation. <<This drives me nuts bc I dig moderation.


    One had a huge distate of odd numbers (ntr).


    They all cooked fairly well (much better than I), dressed fairly decent, and I was/am more oblivious than they out and aboot.


    Granted these may just be the particular ones I've gotten to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    McBain kind of covered the rest but:

    I also hate cooking. I pretty much eat the same thing everyday, which is just chicken strips I heat up in the oven. Literally the only other thing I make is burgers which I make in a skillet. I have no desire to get fancy with recipes. It seems like a waste of time. I wear the same type of clothing most days. It takes me an absurdly long amount of time to choose clothing everyday because I'm just battling the temptation to wear what I wore two days ago. My problem with dressing is that I have a harder time judging whether what I'm wearing is appropriate for the occasion. I know how to dress well, but I can just feel a bit overdressed if I do. I know how to dress casual and make it look acceptable, but I don't know how to make it look good. That may actually relate more to ethics vs. logic, but I don't know.

    How do you not get utterly sick of chicken strips?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    How do you not get utterly sick of chicken strips?
    Oh I definitely am. I just don't have a desire to eat anything else and when I'm hungry I'm that less sick of chicken strips so I can handle it. Plus these are really good chicken strips. you don't understand. Some days I put them in a salad with cheese and other days I make them into tacos. They're a very versatile food. I also use buffalo sauce and ranch for dipping so I'm not just purely eating chicken.

    I should mention that I pretty much just wake up, eat a granola bar, and most days I skip lunch but sometimes I go to a dining hall and eat a salad, then at nights I make the chicken strips or a burger.

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    Hypocondria, being obsessed with health and looks, and being terribly afraid of falling sick (because of the physical and mental suffering that it makes one FEEL within one's body) are common concerns I've noticed among LSEs and ESEs. Some SLIs also have such concerns but they're generally cooler about that. I don't know why but I used to have a close SLI friend and when he got a flu he was totally out, in bed, incapable of moving for at least one week, while my flus are generally short-lived (perhaps because I start to self-medicate before they evolve).

    In Si-PoLRs there is also a preoccupation with health, but then for a different cause I guess it's because they cannot properly tell whether they are feeling bodily internally well or not, so they usually notice a flu or any disease once it has already been there for a while, while with Si-creatives it's more that we notice them all too well and especially we feel the physical discomfort like hell so for us being sick is very much the worst thing that can happen. Fortunately I've got a strong as f=ck immune system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Ahhhhhhhhhh. College student. Say no more. It all makes sense.

    I pretty much lived off cereal, ramon noodles and fish my first year.
    Yeah, I'm not sure it would be any different if I were out of college, but it's definitely, you know, the college life. First year was arguably better since my dorm was connected to a dining hall and I wasn't diagnosed with celiac disease. I now just starve during the weeks and gorge on the weekends. I eat so much chipotle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure it would be any different if I were out of college, but it's definitely, you know, the college life. First year was arguably better since my dorm was connected to a dining hall and I wasn't diagnosed with celiac disease. I now just starve during the weeks and gorge on the weekends. I eat so much chipotle.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmtIHyCpf4

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    From LIEs I've known over the years- their Si PoLr seemed to manifest in an all or nothing mentality ..in regards to food, partying, exercise...etc. It was challenging for them to find balance and see the value in moderation. <<This drives me nuts bc I dig moderation.


    One had a huge distate of odd numbers (ntr).


    They all cooked fairly well (much better than I), dressed fairly decent, and I was/am more oblivious than they out and aboot.


    Granted these may just be the particular ones I've gotten to know.
    Moderation is a big theme I have noticed as well in LIE. Actually this issue of moderation is really one of the few over-arching trouble spots I have with LIEs.

    The one I was in a relationship with liked to cook and made great meals. Often on my case as to when I would make dinners. Whenever I did, I would really go over board and try and make a great meal (cooking is a chore for me). When it came time to eat I would noticed all the little things about it that could be better..."This is really good I love it!" he would say. He was sometimes a fussy eater, puts ketchup on everything, yet never said a word about my cooking. (Yet sometimes the ketchup would end up on it?....hmm).

    For christmas one year I bought him a Tom Tom GPS navigator (this was before iphones had proper gps maps - if ever). He drove lots for business and he admitted to me that he would get anxiety trying to find where he needed to go, especially if driving out into other provinces. I went on several trips with him that winter, trying to show him the day to day advantages of a GPS, and of course he always down played how great something was. .. I know he still uses it.

    When it came to clothing, really knew how to dress sharply if going out. The trouble came when getting clothes that were the right size, all of which are usually to small.. This LIE liked to flout his weaknesses as a kind of funny game. This one was literally colour blind and the only colours he could see were shades of blue. Which is fine because blue matched his eyes. Yet knew how much I hate the colour baby blue, which of course would buy it all the time just to get me. Also had very bad feet problems for years. His feet were a large size and he always had them crammed into cowboy boots all year round, and he wondered why his feet gave him issues? I often TOLD him he needs to get wider sized boots for comfort, the ones with the square shaped toes, which do not look as good but who cares? Because they are going to feel more comfortable and he is going to have less pain every night. FINALLY we were in Calgary and I bought him a pair of these boots. He now wears them all the time.."My feet feel so much better now I THINK they have less pain?" (HAHa, you think? or you know....?)

    Anyway, this last paragraph I am writing about is only loosely related to Si polr and really might only apply to the one I know in general.
    Last edited by wacey; 04-25-2015 at 01:26 PM.

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    my father's Si polr

    - cannot stand just sitting there and doing nothing ...kinda lounging in the lamp-light. dunno how he's gonna handle his retirement. likes to push up his energy and prove to himself he can do this and that instead of just relaxing. hates feeling helpless or depending on others for comfort. anyway doesn't give much of a fuck if pillows are puffy, soft-textured etc.

    - fairly good with cooking, but it's not smth. he does for pure pleasure. prefers investing in lots of already prepared food. however he does contribute hands-on, especially for holidays. otherwise when we were kids he would cook relatively simple stuff when my mom was at work. not very much into experimenting and stuff (I am into that much more than him, altho I don't like following recipes)

    - likes a neat image in terms of clothing etc. would never wear silly things, mixed socks, or colors that don't fit. However he's not a big aesthete and he is totally yours when he sees you choose something stylish for him or give him fashion/color suggestions.

    - dislikes talking health issues, hygiene etc. But I also resent that ...I kinda often see Si ego engaging in such topics, especially if strong Sp-stacked.

    - not good in "feeling" the limits of his own body and predicting discomfort or pain. Kinda he had some back problems, but kept stretching and pushing his ass to clean up the house altho he was on treatment. ftw. ofc it got worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Hypocondria, being obsessed with health and looks, and being terribly afraid of falling sick (because of the physical and mental suffering that it makes one FEEL within one's body) are common concerns I've noticed among LSEs and ESEs. Some SLIs also have such concerns but they're generally cooler about that. I don't know why but I used to have a close SLI friend and when he got a flu he was totally out, in bed, incapable of moving for at least one week, while my flus are generally short-lived (perhaps because I start to self-medicate before they evolve).

    In Si-PoLRs there is also a preoccupation with health, but then for a different cause I guess it's because they cannot properly tell whether they are feeling bodily internally well or not, so they usually notice a flu or any disease once it has already been there for a while, while with Si-creatives it's more that we notice them all too well and especially we feel the physical discomfort like hell so for us being sick is very much the worst thing that can happen. Fortunately I've got a strong as f=ck immune system.
    Yeah, from my experience SLI handle Si much more subtly and with less "fan-fare" then any other Si type, including SEI. SEI have that Fe, so are more willing and able to talk about Si stuff in their life (SEI give the most little treats to other people, ime). LSE have that teaching kind of Si. ESE have that sort of living situation "mastery" kind of Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    This checks with what I've seen of LIEs irl... one couldn't even sit through movies
    "Its like I couldn't sit still until I met you".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    If polr is point of least resistance, I suppose it's practically irresistible
    Not really, you usually easily ignore it but if for some reason your PoLR manages to mindfuck you it's gonna be very uncomfortable, well guess you can call it irresistible in those moments

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    could this be an exaggerated example of Si PoLR....? :)


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