Kat Dennings

[aisa]

Type her:

Kat Dennings

vids:





pics:

 

with Josh Groban:

If you’re typing just by pics without watching vids, it’d be great if you’d mention it. Thx.

[Contra]

Typing from vids: SEI? I'm bad with typing SEIs but she seems like a merry introvert and not NT or ST. Josh Groban, her boyfriend apparently, VIs kind of SEI just from pictures so it works for me.

[silke]

I like the EII-Ne 4w5 typing for her. She distantly reminds me of a poster on here @Birdie/Hydrangea.

I don't really think about doing something kind, I think there's just a way to conduct your daily life with compassion to other people. - Kat Dennings

I have friends who are so sarcastic but I never view it as mean. - Kat Dennings

I'm a reclusive weirdo. - Kat Dennings

I want to see as many movies as I can and I covet a lot of weird influential movies. - Kat Dennings

I've played every instrument you could possibly think of for 10 minutes. So I'm mediocre at everything. I can play drums, guitar, piano, violin, saxophone, clarinet, flute... Just not well. - Kat Dennings

[darya]

ILE 3w4 imo

[Contra]

wait, wait, wait, revelation here. She has the exact same tone and sense of humor as my LSE roommate's girlfriend. There are also some VI similarities. I type his girlfriend as Delta NF. She seems really introverted and shows off her Ne in a very self contained sort of way, but it comes out in funny voices and impressions. So EII could make a lot of sense for both of them. IEE is my second choice.

[Hays]

SEI I think, she reminds me a bit of Hillary Duff who could be SEI also, although Kat has less Fe use.
Kat could even be extroverted as nothing in her behaviour gives away introversion.

Edit: After watching the videos @silke linked above I can slightly see the case for her being an EII as those particular videos were a bit infantile like but I think that she's still likely not an EII. And if that's an EII then I am so not.

[wacey]

Since we are all going off just impressions I feel comfortable in saying Neeeeeeeeeeeee.

[aisa]

Interesting discussion.

Ok, here's a question: where's Fi in the first video in OP? I get where the SEI and ILE typings are coming from. But how is she a Fi ego, she made Ellen cringe...

[aisa]

Some more vids:

 

with Natalie Portman (interview on Thor):

[darya]

But how is she a Fi ego, she made Ellen cringe...

And how is she Se PoLR? Yeah, not buying her as EII at all. She seems pretty similar to her character in Two broke girls. Duff is more girly the way I see the comparison, and I think Kat is Ne ego.

Also, 4w5 is a really really bad typing for her, no way is she that. She could very well be e6 though.

[aisa]

Could anyone please explain to me where's her leading Fi...? I clearly am missing sth.

[Amber]

I'm sorry, how is her getting glued on that ass Fi lead.

she's hot, but she behaves more like Ep something.

[Amber]

she vibes a bit like rachel weisz imo, she could actually be Se base

[marooned]

she vibes a bit like rachel weisz imo, she could actually be Se base

i was actually wondering about sle too. but am still thinking ile > sle.

[mu4]

SLE

[golden]

Ne. Infantile / caregiver continuum.

[mu4]

I can see ILE too but I don't think Josh Groban is SEI.

[aisa]

Ok, thx for contributing guys.
The above posts make more sense to me tbh. I think there's a good chance she's ILE. Her EII typing in this list largely contributed to my misunderstanding of what particular IEs are when I entered this forum as a complete socionics newb. (Although I think there are quite a few good typings in that list, too.)

Regarding Groban - Idk, he's an IEE/SEI morph to me, I keep swinging, can't pin point him. I bumped his thread just now if anyone has some ideas - let's dissect him, too - while we're at it, lol.

[silke]

Interesting discussion.

Ok, here's a question: where's Fi in the first video in OP? I get where the SEI and ILE typings are coming from. But how is she a Fi ego, she made Ellen cringe...

Her Fi is in quotes like these

"I don't really think about doing something kind, I think there's just a way to conduct your daily life with compassion to other people." - Kat Dennings

... which is a dead giveaway of +Fi of EII type and delta quadra in general. Otherwise her face is completely blank and expressionless and she says she has a distaste for rehearsing overly emotional things, which makes serious quadra Fi/Te type way more likely for her than anything Fe. What about the first video that seemed so un-Fi-like to you?

[aisa]

Her Fi is in quotes like these

"I don't really think about doing something kind, I think there's just a way to conduct your daily life with compassion to other people." - Kat Dennings

... which is a dead giveaway of +Fi of EII type and delta quadra in general.

Tbh I'm not sure how this can be a conclusive example of Fi as a leading IE? Aren't all people capable of compassion and of treating it as some value in their lives? It just sounds like sth more do to with the values passed on in smn's upbringing. I know a SLE who was a terrible bully when he was a teen and later grew up, matured and realised how his behaviour affected other people and actually tracked down and apologised to all the EIIs he was bullying in the past.

I'm in general always open to suggestions, so if there's sth more I can be convinced, but this doesn't seem enough.

Otherwise her face is completely blank and expressionless and she says she has a distaste for rehearsing overly emotional things, which makes serious quadra Fi/Te type way more likely for her than anything Fe.

Well a distaste for rehearsing overly emotional things can also be interpreted as Fi PoLR and general difficulty of displaying inner states, Idk how to phrase it better.

What about the first video that seemed so un-Fi-like to you?

Well, I've just never met an EII who'd comment this way on smn's looks. Also the reaction of Ellen who's commonly typed as IEE-Fi looked like she is uncomfortable in this situation.

Also, what about her behaviour, the things she says and body speech? When I compare her to people like Claudia Schiffer they seem to be on a completely different plane of expression...

[marooned]

okay, even if she's gamma or delta, why an ethical type? i don't really see ethics (in the socionics sense), period.

hmm. unless maybe she's see.




also, this seems to be a fairly candid...



*is seriously considering see now*

[aisa]

okay, even if she's gamma or delta, why an ethical type? i don't really see ethics (in the socionics sense), period.

hmm. unless maybe she's see.
(vid)
also, this seems to be a fairly candid...
(vid)
*is seriously considering see now*
(vid)

Interesting, it's easier for me to see SEE than EII. I just don't see the Se-PoLR in her. I'll watch the two above vids that I hadn't seen.

[shakealittle]

So funny people were initially saying SEI, I lean towards LIE. I remember seeing her on Jimmy Fallon and she wasn't so proficient with Fe

[aisa]

@Person, I gave what you wrote a thought and this is where I am at the moment. I should probably divide my response into two parts. I’ll spoiler it as it’s long and includes videos.

 

"I don't really think about doing something kind" + "I have a distaste for rehearsing overly emotional things." No I think silke is referring to the way she expresses herself, which is very much serious. I think an Fe valuer would be a little more tactful and harmonize with the flow of the object (in this specific example, the conversation at hand)

Idk how tact can be associated with Fe vs. Fi. There are 8 Fe valuing types. And despite Fe valuing calling all these types more tacful than Fi valuing types isn't the first thing that comes to mind tbh.

Also, how are the above quotes not in line with the description of Fi in a vulnerable postion?

as a vulnerable (4th) function (ILE and SLE)

The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively.


Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.

As far as I recall actors tend to mention that being able to go through emotional scene requires them to recall some personal "charged" event (that helps them evoke outward reaction required for the viewer to see the on-screen emotions of their character as “authenthic”). I can see how this might be sth difficult/not looked forward to for both Fi-leads and Fi-vulnerable types – just for different reasons. It probably isn't pleasant for other types either, especially if it's supposed to be recalling sth traumatic.

where as Fi basically goes against the object or its flow in order to sustain its inner picture of feelings; we're basically referring to what Introverted Feeling actually is, what it does, the essence of it:

"No desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way... There is little effort to accompany the real emotions of the object, which tend to be damped and rebuffed, or to put it more aptly, are 'cooled off' by a negative feeling-judgment. Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability" In other words this refers to the conversations she's involved in, there's no trace of the Fe values this contrasts with.

Ok, but since you're quoting Jung, why not quote the rest of the passage or at least the whole paragraph?

The Introverted Feeling Type

It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others. One distinctly feels the movement of feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, such an event only occurs when the object has in some way too strong an effect. The harmonious feeling atmosphere rules only so long as the object moves upon its own way with a moderate feeling intensity, and makes no attempt to cross the other's path. There is little effort to accompany the real emotions of the object, which tend to be damped and rebuffed, or to put it more aptly, are 'cooled off' by a negative feeling-judgment. Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness.

 

One may even be made to feel the superfluousness of one's own existence. In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious, i.e. unless, through the animation of some primordial image, feeling is, as it were, taken captive. In which event such a woman simply feels a momentary laming, invariably producing, in due course, a still more violent resistance, which reaches the object in his most vulnerable spot. The relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and its intemperateness are resolutely proscribed. Expression of feeling, therefore, remains ******dly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. Such, however, is not always the case, since very often the deficit remains unconscious; whereupon the unconscious feeling-claims gradually produce symptoms which compel a more serious attention.

A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed. It may possibly make an extravagant irruption, leading to some staggering act of an almost heroic character, to which, however, neither the object nor [p. 494] the subject can find a right relation. To the outer world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this sympathy looks like coldness, for it does nothing visibly, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.

Such misunderstanding is a characteristic occurrence in the life of this type, and is commonly registered as a most weighty argument against any deeper feeling relation with the object. But the underlying, real object of this feeling is only dimly divined by the normal type. It may possibly express its aim and content in a concealed religiosity anxiously shielded, from profane eyes, or in intimate poetic forms equally safeguarded from surprise; not without a secret ambition to bring about some superiority over the object by such means. Women often express much of it in their children, letting their passionateness flow secretly into them.

Although in the normal type, the tendency, above alluded to, to overpower or coerce the object once openly and visibly with the thing secretly felt, rarely plays a disturbing role, and never leads to a serious attempt in this direction, some trace of it, none the less, leaks through into the personal effect upon the object, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds the immediate circle under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power is derived from the deeply felt, unconscious images; consciousness, however, readily refers it to the ego, whereupon the influence becomes debased into personal tyranny. But, wherever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of the intensive feeling is also transformed into banal and arrogant ambition, vanity, and [p. 495] petty tyranny. This produces a type of woman most regrettably distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. But this change in the picture leads also to neurosis.

So long as the ego feels itself housed, as it were, beneath the heights of the unconscious subject, and feeling reveals something higher and mightier than the ego, the type is normal. The unconscious thinking is certainly archaic, yet its reductions may prove extremely helpful in compensating the occasional inclinations to exalt the ego into the subject. But, whenever this does take place by dint of complete suppression of the unconscious reductive thinking-products, the unconscious thinking goes over into opposition and becomes projected into objects. Whereupon the now egocentric subject comes to feel the power and importance of the depreciated object. Consciousness begins to feel 'what others think'. Naturally, others are thinking, all sorts of baseness, scheming evil, and contriving all sorts of plots, secret intrigues, etc. To prevent this, the subject must also begin to carry out preventive intrigues, to suspect and sound others, to make subtle combinations. Assailed by rumours, he must make convulsive efforts to convert, if possible, a threatened inferiority into a superiority. Innumerable secret rivalries develop, and in these embittered struggles not only will no base or evil means be disdained, but even virtues will be misused and tampered with in order to play the trump card. Such a development must lead to exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequelæ.

When I think of the above - this is what comes to mind:
(Claudia Schiffer - interview starts at circa 5:43)


in her early twenties:


...not this:
(Kat Dennings on Jimmy Fallon show)

(sorry for quality, couldn't find the whole one - best to open into full screen to see it more or less properly. I think it's the video that's being referred to in post #29)

She models her own flow of internal judgment and feelings very clearly without actually expounding upon them, iow, not a trace of "stepping back" to apply anything objective to her feelings in conversation. Any clear feeling judgment is thus shied away, as a feeling type you see her feelings exhibited all throughout yet without them being very intelligibly extroverted. Instead her external dynamic is more of a Te one, like in the interview with Craig Ferguson, where the feelings are more of a reaction to the object, not so much an thought process of the object (in this case the discussion.) This is how the serious type dynamic goes.

I guess this is where Socionics might get too technical for some people so we have to agree to disagree.

Aren't all interviews just basically action-reaction?
I'm interested how you'd describe Se-PoLR in this particular case. An example would be welcome (similarly to what you mention as her dynamic with Ferguson). I'm pretty sure I haven't studied socionics as long as you have (I'm under impression that Mar 2015 isn't when you found out about it), nor in similar depth. I also don't think I am infallible and can accept being wrong. There's also a factor of English being my second language and me living in a non-English speaking country - and while I have a fairly good command of general English, I admit that reading through more detailed socionics-related or psychological texts does require me to grab a dictionary. I don't have background in psychology or philosophy either. Maybe some meaning eludes me because of this. I can't exclude this.

At this point if I typed her strictly from the vlog videos I could maybe sort of see where the EII typing is coming from. But when I look at the whole spectrum in this thread - it's really difficult for me to see this woman as EII.

Also, why do we have to agree to disagree at this point already? Somehow I think this discussion can still be interesting and informative. But maybe that’s just my point of view, Idk.

 

I’m interested in how you approach typing – are your impressions of her based mainly on quotes, on her vlogs, on other videos or maybe some other material provided (or not) in this thread?

Do you discard the interview material (or treat it as secondary) and treat only the vlogs as more or less a source of her authentic manner of behaving? What about the video from Comic-Con (it’s in post #11 - the last one in the spoiler section). Even if we assume all talk show appearances are scripted then that one is not on a talk show and is probably more likely to be a more authethic behaviour imo.

Personally looking at all the videos in this thread together – I think she’s some kind of EP. I can’t discard the Se-ego typings as she might be using role Ne as a comedian, too. She doesn’t strike me as smn with Se-PoLR.

I am aware that I may be biased after seeing her in 2 Broke Girls, but she doesn’t seem too different from her character on the show in the interviews. Maybe it’s a cultural thing and US based EIIs are different, more lively, etc. but personally I have trouble seeing those that I know or met irl being comfortable with playing this character on the show for 4 concurrent seasons...

Btw what would be your typing of Max – her character in 2 Broke Girls?

I’d be interested in reading what your perspective is. And I’m interested in this more than in just proving “I’m right right right, lalala, I won’t listen to what anyone has to say.” I may as well be wrong.
I can see how there can be various interpretations of certain behaviours when we’re trying to type celebrities.

[Birdie]

@silke I am often being told I resemble Kat Dennings. I agree with your summation of her typing.

I am editing my post to include the post I was responding to since silke
the mention of silke in my post for some reason is not visible and he/she
mentioning me is no longer visible as well...


edit numero dos:
I dont know what the hell is going on but now the mentions are visible...
I clearly need to go back to bed. Im sorry.

I like the EII-Ne 4w5 typing for her. She distantly reminds me of a poster on here @Birdie/Hydrangea.

I don't really think about doing something kind, I think there's just a way to conduct your daily life with compassion to other people. - Kat Dennings

I have friends who are so sarcastic but I never view it as mean. - Kat Dennings

I'm a reclusive weirdo. - Kat Dennings

I want to see as many movies as I can and I covet a lot of weird influential movies. - Kat Dennings

I've played every instrument you could possibly think of for 10 minutes. So I'm mediocre at everything. I can play drums, guitar, piano, violin, saxophone, clarinet, flute... Just not well. - Kat Dennings

[wacey]

So funny people were initially saying SEI, I lean towards LIE. I remember seeing her on Jimmy Fallon and she wasn't so proficient with Fe

Boooo.

Edit: kind of like Fe ignoring?

[strrrng]

initially considered EII from VI, as she had a trace of self-contained pretension and environmental remove, but the interviews made EP+Fe-valuing abundantly clear. you can see how awkward ellen feels as she rambles.

2:11 in the first video is as NeFe as it gets, and the third picture down conveys a solidity and implicit reactivity that doesn't vibe with Fi-valuing or Se-polr at all.

3w4 seems like a good bet as well.

[aisa]

I find it amusing that out of all the threads I've set up - only this one includes a poll. I don't mind it, but I didn't add it, either.

[Contra]

I think she's the same type as Anna Kendrick. They seem very similar. Certainly not logical, in my opinion. I still think Delta NF fits pretty well and if not that then I think alpha SF is the next best bet.

[aisa]

At this point I really don't know. But I think one of the EPs. The SEE suggestions seem plausible. Still have trouble seeing her as EII.
I don't see Alpha SF though, very little Fe there. @Contra

[Contra]

At this point I really don't know. But I think one of the EPs. The SEE suggestions seem plausible. Still have trouble seeing her as EII.
I don't see Alpha SF though, very little Fe there. @Contra

I agree. I don't necessarily see a ton of Fe either but I think she is Ne valuing and ethical. I think she's a bit quirky for SEE. She has kind of an awkward humor that I think intuitives tend to take advantage of. I think IEE is still a good option. I don't see it as more or less likely than EII really.

[yeves]

initially considered EII from VI, as she had a trace of self-contained pretension and environmental remove, but the interviews made EP+Fe-valuing abundantly clear.

EP extroverted temperament? "self-contained"? really? this argument makes no sense from what's been written about temperaments on wikisocion

IEI or ILI, introversion is one of Kat's most clear traits imo, she is so self-subsumed ... mysterious and airy

[Disturbed]

She's an EII-Ne. EII-Ne can be quite strong-willed and good with Fe and often don't appear to be Se-PoLR.

EDIT: I was going by the fact that she seemed C-D (strongly static, process, and positivist) which is feminine especially as expressed in EII-Ne, ILE-Ti, SEE-Se, and LSI-Se. I now kind of think ILE-Ti, as she is very sexually attractive (I really shouldn't be saying this, but I have to speak my mind) and seems to use Fe more than Fi (her sense of humor is much more Fe than Fi).

EDIT 2: I feel like an idiot for every thinking she was an EII-Ne, she definitely has Ti creative function and is the Ti-subtype; I just thought of Causal-Determinists as so feminine that she must have been one. She's definitely either ILE-Ti or SLE-Ti. I keep having so much physical strain and it is bothering me with no end in sight.

[Disturbed]

She's an SLE-Ti. Her facial expressions are just like Evan Rachel Wood's more than Rachel Weisz.

Silke really threw me off for a while by suggesting she was an EII-Ne (it never would've come to me on my own), when she clearly is a SLE-Ti. No way is she Delta. Gammas and Deltas are really quite rare in the U.S.A., and even more rare among Ashkenazi Jewish women (a very large percentage are ILE-Ti, in fact it's the most common type among Ashkenazi Jewesses at least in the U.S.A. distantly followed by SLE-Ti and then EIE-Ni but I'm not sure about Israeli Ashkenazi Jewesses), although there were/are a few Delta Ashkenazi Jews/Jewesses (e.g., Anne Frank, Mara Wilson, Daniel Radcliffe, Joe Lieberman).

[silke]

She's an SLE-Ti. Her facial expressions are just like Evan Rachel Wood's more than Rachel Weisz.

Silke really threw me off for a while by suggesting she was an EII-Ne (it never would've come to me on my own), when she clearly is a SLE-Ti. No way is she Delta. Gammas and Deltas are really quite rare in the U.S.A., and even more rare among Ashkenazi Jewish women (a very large percentage are ILE-Ti, in fact it's the most common type among Ashkenazi Jewesses at least in the U.S.A. distantly followed by SLE-Ti and then EIE-Ni but I'm not sure about Israeli Ashkenazi Jewesses), although there were/are a few Delta Ashkenazi Jews/Jewesses (e.g., Anne Frank, Mara Wilson, Daniel Radcliffe, Joe Lieberman).