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Thread: EIIs/INFjs and disappointment

  1. #81
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purpleowl View Post
    Your brother's behavior is very far from what I was referring to here and I do not relate to it at all. I have nearly zero expectations of that kind and material things interest me very little, definitely not nearly enough to place any focus on them. I am actually quite the opposite to your brother in that sense, very easy-going and actually preferring for someone else to take the initiative in those matters, finding myself content as long as I am with someone I feel a strong and positive connection with.
    The example was material, but it still represents the attitude many EIIs have, which is that they have the right to independently determine exactly what others' words and actions mean FOR them, and from that point on, to dictate how others are obligated to treat them and silently punish those who disappoint. It seems like a shortcoming of having contact rather than inert Ne. Ultimately, the right answer is usually to try and be more fair, or cut the person loose if you feel that you can't be, based on what both parties separately regard as fairness. I recently had to cut an ILE loose because I realized that the values I was measuring her against would never be hers, and should never be hers. They were my values, and though they were perfect for me, expecting her to recognize and uphold them would be like trying to squeeze someone into clothes that were too small.


    And for all of this, EIIs don't always regulate their own behavior. Even here, I've seen EIIs become icy and defensive when their own hostility or rudeness was pointed out.


    Sorry, I'm not trying to accuse you or lump this all on you, I just felt like bringing it up because it's something I see all the time and it's almost never openly discussed. Maybe that's because everyone is painfully aware and my Se-polr is too stupid to realize, lol.
    someday the grapes will be wine
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    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  2. #82
    purpleowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    The example was material, but it still represents the attitude many EIIs have, which is that they have the right to independently determine exactly what others' words and actions mean FOR them, and from that point on, to dictate how others are obligated to treat them and silently punish those who disappoint. It seems like a shortcoming of having contact rather than inert Ne. Ultimately, the right answer is usually to try and be more fair, or cut the person loose if you feel that you can't be, based on what both parties separately regard as fairness. I recently had to cut an ILE loose because I realized that the values I was measuring her against would never be hers, and should never be hers. They were my values, and though they were perfect for me, expecting her to recognize and uphold them would be like trying to squeeze someone into clothes that were too small.


    And for all of this, EIIs don't always regulate their own behavior. Even here, I've seen EIIs become icy and defensive when their own hostility or rudeness was pointed out.


    Sorry, I'm not trying to accuse you or lump this all on you, I just felt like bringing it up because it's something I see all the time and it's almost never openly discussed. Maybe that's because everyone is painfully aware and my Se-polr is too stupid to realize, lol.
    This is true, yet I don't feel the need to adjust my expectations based on this. Having them is a fundamental part of who I am. It is a matter, like you said, of realizing who can fit in them and who can't and having the courage to cut them loose if necessary.

    Edit: I am also a 4w5, fwiw (since you mentioned that about your brother)

  3. #83
    The Original EII Is Not Necessarily The Best Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purpleowl View Post
    EIIs, do you find that you are constantly getting disappointed in people?

    I have trouble reconciling people's actual actions with how I think they should act based on how they claim to feel, which always leaves me feeling like they don't truly care enough until they do something else that proves otherwise. This is a constant source of deep pain for me, which I'm afraid makes me come off as a grouch or someone that gets upset over "any little thing" (not little to me), when in reality it isn't anger but pain and disappointment instead.
    I find it dispiriting that I will die before the world reaches a peaceful utopia. I am optimistic that I will live through great times over the next 70-80+ years and that great social change will happen, but I think there will always be a Dark side to life, no matter how small it might be.

    I have always spent an inordinate amount of time trying to correct things for how they ought to be, and perhaps in a far from optimal way. I have often micromanaged matters rather than looking at the most productive way of improving situations: it is especially hard when it concerns subjects close to me that I cannot avoid and/or that I must live with.

    Not going to bed on an argument is probably good advice.

  4. #84
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I am optimistic that I will live through great times over the next 70-80+ years and that great social change will happen, but I think there will always be a Dark side to life, no matter how small it might be.
    That is such a refreshingly optimistic perspective. Everyone seems to think the world is headed to hell in a hand basket. I almost don't want to know the reasons behind your optimism, just bask in its niceness, lol.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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  5. #85
    The Original EII Is Not Necessarily The Best Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    That is such a refreshingly optimistic perspective. Everyone seems to think the world is headed to hell in a hand basket. I almost don't want to know the reasons behind your optimism, just bask in its niceness, lol.


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  6. #86
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    You may be sentimentally exaggerating a bit, but all in all this is a good argument that I'm an EII.

    I thought Ne kind of helps you play magic on the world and change people's perspectives on stuff as you wish...? make them want to improve and reach an ideal state..? (rather than getting stuck in a feeling of disappointment).
    I'll bring negative feelings up when they happen but won't get stuck in them it doesn't do anyone any good
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #87
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I find it dispiriting that I will die before the world reaches a peaceful utopia. I am optimistic that I will live through great times over the next 70-80+ years and that great social change will happen, but I think there will always be a Dark side to life, no matter how small it might be.
    I think a great, huge positive change on earth will occur to within those years but I think there will be a hell to pay first (and it will be paid by the innocent and the not). I strongly feel this radical change will be in my lifetime, and sooner than later - and I often pray for the graces that it be later. I hope to be here to to see the positive end, but I am not counting on living my whole reasonably expected lifespan, though I would be happy to. I just hope my life, however long it is, will be of use for good. If I were given the choice that it be me or my son to continue on of course I would pick my son. Of course, so would most parents. (The end of life on earth could be today for any of us for that matter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I have always spent an inordinate amount of time trying to correct things for how they ought to be, and perhaps in a far from optimal way. I have often micromanaged matters rather than looking at the most productive way of improving situations: it is especially hard when it concerns subjects close to me that I cannot avoid and/or that I must live with.
    Good thoughtful insights. I like to "correct" things too, in my own way... Right now its on a matter of very little importance, our room-redo project, and we are both feeling kind of sick of it at the moment, having set bars too high for ourselves, and we are doing it all ourselves....

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Not going to bed on an argument is probably good advice.
    Yes. I am finding that simple-as-can-be to do with my dear husband. But with my ex, it was impossible, due to his disordered make-up. I worked at it constantly, to no avail, assuming quite wrongly for years that it was just due to mysterious miss-communication.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
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    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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  8. #88
    Froody Blue Gem's Avatar
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    I try to see the bright side, and give people many chances. I get disappointed if something happens more than once and it goes beyond just a simple mistake. I'm pretty opened, and am accepting when people mess up, until it gets to a certain point. I make mistakes myself, and when other people have high standards, it makes me anxious to be around those types of people, so I don't want to be one of those people. I'll admit when I do face disappointment with people, and they don't show signs of being sorry, my opinion on them tends to go down. My standards are higher when it comes to closer friends, who I let in, but I'm not super nitpicky/fussy in general.

    We're only human and can learn from mistakes, but some don't learn and keep on repeating the same behavior over and over. It is more when a boundary is overstepped or people can't take a hint, this happens.
    9w1-5w4-2w3 sp/so

    Exactly how serious, the American Express Company had gotten to know very rapidly, and increasingly strident and panic-stricken demands on of it's debt-collection department were only silenced by the unexpected demolition of the entire planet by Vogons, to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.


  9. #89
    Dark Rainbow bouncingoffclouds's Avatar
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    I agree. I had written a post, but it felt kind of harsh, so I will just say I agree with this guy. Unless someone is fucking up constantly, try to give the benefit of the doubt. Remember too that not everyone works the same. I know sometimes I just really don’t feel well and it doesn’t mean I don’t care, I just don’t feel well and need to focus on self-care etc. I think it’s best to be giving without expecting much in return, if that’s your nature to be giving. I think the ideal would be to give and feel good about your good deed, but not hold other people to such high standards in doing the same... give because you want to, not expecting future favors
    Quote Originally Posted by Froody Blue Gem View Post
    I try to see the bright side, and give people many chances. I get disappointed if something happens more than once and it goes beyond just a simple mistake. I'm pretty opened, and am accepting when people mess up, until it gets to a certain point. I make mistakes myself, and when other people have high standards, it makes me anxious to be around those types of people, so I don't want to be one of those people. I'll admit when I do face disappointment with people, and they don't show signs of being sorry, my opinion on them tends to go down. My standards are higher when it comes to closer friends, who I let in, but I'm not super nitpicky/fussy in general.

    We're only human and can learn from mistakes, but some don't learn and keep on repeating the same behavior over and over. It is more when a boundary is overstepped or people can't take a hint, this happens.
    "The seed of suffering in you may be strong, but don't wait until you have no more suffering before allowing yourself to be happy."

    4 core, sx/so slight sx bend, maybe 469 (they call me The Seeker!) 4w5, 6w7, 9w1, IEE-Fi Harmonic with IEI flavors




  10. #90
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Some EIIs seem to be full of suggestions as to how to perfect relationships and behaviour. This can be very helpful when people are actually seeking help but extremely annoying for people who aren't. Individual suggestions don't usually seem that big but the number of them can mount, which can become rather burdensome over the long-term. To withstand a 1000 cuts, it would take a person with a big ego who won't take criticism personally and or one who is rather open to continual self-improvement. Because EIIs seem to have a rather objective approach, I'm sure they must be correcting their own behaviour as well but people wouldn't likely be aware of this......

    a.k.a. I/O

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