Enneagram type 4

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

It sounds like E4 on the surface, but it isn't. That's something you have to be careful about with Enneagram, it can cause you to make unfounded leaps in gathering information. "What" can be similar without "why" being the same.

the why here would be about why somoene's misunderstood.
it doesnt matter that ur specific experience was with a manipulator that u werent believed about.
its the same for any 4, in my case it would be other various issues that i wasnt believed about, be that tooth paste being bad, about the pain, about the consequences others have on the social environment and how they hurt each other for no reason by being selfish incosniderate manipulative and stupid, that all means im always the victim or think i know better than what the norm is, which is all me trying to manipulate others down to be a burden and to exploit them.
what differnece does it make in the particular case? or any case at all. i dont insist u are a 4, but that doesnt seem to be indicative.
braingel is a 4, she's also not believed by some pp about her family, her family dont believe her about the bs they do to her, she's not believed about larger things like me and accused of being a manipulative narcissist.
do you mean something else?

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

the why here would be about why somoene's misunderstood.
it doesnt matter that ur specific experience was with a manipulator that u werent believed about.

If that was true, we'd all be 4s. Lol. Everyone experiences being misunderstood about something at some point, it's inevitable and it's really not that big of a deal in most cases...but there is a certain human element involved. By that, I mean...anyone who loses their whole family because they were a narc's scapegoat, falsely accused/misunderstood for 16 years, because their own mother formed a family smear campaign, is going to be bothered by it. Type is irrelevant to that. Being trapped beneath that kind of reputation damage for 16 years would make just about anyone a bit sensitive to being misunderstood.

And by sensitive, in my case, all I mean is that when things come up that could spread false rumors, I feel a bit cautious...I want to clear up the lies/misunderstandings before they catch and spread. I don't underestimate the levels of stupidity people can have about believing what they hear when they're told rumors. The average person is naive and will believe just about anything. Paradoxically, people are untrusting of others, which gives them a negative bias often times...so that they are more vulnerable to being gullible when it comes to believing something negative about someone.

Enneagram is not about "what" someone does, it's all about the defense mechanisms, the way they navigate a core fear they have. In the case of 4's, they fear losing their identities, which I've never in my life experienced before and that entire concept is weird to me. I don't really understand how someone could lose their identity unless they are trying to maintain a fake identity. I could go on, but I don't feel like breaking the type down and spoon-feeding it. I'll leave you with this, you should research the type more thoroughly, because you don't seem to understand that it is about more than what is on the surface.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

...all I mean is that when things come up that could spread false rumors, I feel a bit cautious...I want to clear up the lies/misunderstandings before they catch and spread. I don't underestimate the levels of stupidity people can have about believing what they hear when they're told rumors. The average person is naive and will believe just about anything. Paradoxically, people are untrusting of others, which gives them a negative bias often times...so that they are more vulnerable to being gullible when it comes to believing something negative about someone.

In this instance, I was overly cautious, though. I don't think the average person would take any of this conversation seriously when it's obviously...well, pretty out there. I honestly regret getting this far into the conversation.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

If that was true, we'd all be 4s. Lol.

Enneagram is not about "what" someone does, it's all about the defense mechanisms, the way they navigate a core fear they have. In the case of 4's, they fear losing their identities, which I've never in my life experienced before and that entire concept is weird to me. I don't really understand how someone could lose their identity unless they are trying to maintain a fake identity. I could go on, but I don't feel like breaking the type down and spoon-feeding it. I'll leave you with this, you should research the type more thoroughly, because you don't seem to understand that it is about more than what is on the surface.

what does the defense mechanism or ur enneagram in particular matter here? im trying to explain E4
if u want clarification im not insiting ur a 4. identity is fluid bc it changes with what ur presented with, and u have to adapt to circumstances so u dont get hurt die hurt someone else. who u are is not accepted, and it may be wrong By ur own accord. questioning urself and changing is not hypocrisy or fakery. theres identity crysis and existential crysis about ur whole percpetion of the world being wrong and thus ur biasesi/the way u are. there;s also either u be as others want u to be or suffer the consequences. i was relating E4's experience with yours as a way to get u to udnerstand.
if u have no identity u have nothing to lose. people dont tend to identify with their cognition. ur cognitin loses properties depending on what u, external reallity morphing u. if it doesnt morph u to a point, then it shows theres nothing inside that u value to be morphed to that point. maybe it can be perception of future and possibilities that someone else may not be aware they are losing of themselves by digging into something they're forced to, and they may not perceive they are forced to into it so they dont alter themselves in the present to influence the future. or may not have rigid principles they have to adhere to as their identity.
e4 is what happens when u go insane with pain and have principles.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

what does the defense mechanism or ur enneagram in particular matter here? im trying to explain E4
if u want clarification im not insiting ur a 4. identity is fluid bc it changes with what ur presented with, and u have to adapt to circumstances so u dont get hurt die hurt someone else.

i was relating E4's experience with yours as a way to get u to udnerstand.
if u have no identity u have nothing to lose. people dont tend to identify with their cognition. ur cognitin loses properties depending on what u, external reallity morphing u. if it doesnt morph u to a point, then it shows theres nothing inside that u value to be morphed to that point. maybe it can be perception of future and possibilities that someone else may not be aware they are losing of themselves by digging into something they're forced to, and they may not perceive they are forced to into it so they dont alter themselves in the present to influence the future. or may not have rigid principles they have to adhere to as their identity.
e4 is what happens when u go insane with pain and have principles.

The defense mechanisms matter because Enneagram is all about defense mechanisms. That is the core of the entire system.

According to official theory, types cannot change. I disagree with that, though, as I disagree that Enneagram should even be considered a personality theory at all. I think it should have just been a list of defense mechanisms some people may sometimes use.

I see...it seemed as though you were trying to type me as E4.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to help me understand, if I'm honest.

One of the problems with your comparison is that assuming the process based on seeing only the outcome is erroneous. For example, being different is not the same as wanting to be. I desire neither to stand apart, nor blend in. I simply desire to be my authentic self without caring where I stand in relation to others. 4s feel a need to be special because they fear being worthless. I share this not in defense, but to explain how type theories can cause people to misunderstand others in general.

[youfloweryourfeast]

4s know what it liek to hit rock bottom and we have a hard time leaving our suffering to see the light. Very unhealthy 4s or 4s who have been know what happens, and it worsened by environment/parents/whoever the state our life is in. How many times how many times until things are truly better but it can't just be "ok" it has to be perfect. In some ways I'd rather things be bad than just ok since the feeling of being ok feels insufficent.
Ig to use to feel happy feels fake but it's more deeply rooted 7s won't really be misunderstood for running from sadness people won't riducle them as much to be negative and in a bad state that is noticed. It is feeling shame I've always had deep feeling of melacholy but it didn't open up until I became a teenager than everything went to shit. this why 4s when doing normal things like everyone else it feels wrong even though we should. it is like there's a big lump on your side and it won't go away and you obsess over it looking at it 24/7, but nothing is changing and that makes everything worse.

[necrosebud]

Self-Development Strategies: Attaining Higher Personality Qualities and Reuniting with Essence
The Central Theme for Type 4’s Healing and Development
Ironically, healing and development for Type 4s involves turning away from the outward search for the ultimate, ideal, deep, heart connection and the complete fulfillment when nothing of substance is missing. This pursuit only serves to perpetuate their current dilemma as all of the well-intentioned searching in the wrong place will not give your desired result. Instead, the search just creates more intense feelings of deficiency and longing. Type 4s are blind to having abandoned their own heart and need to love themselves as they are. So, the primary task for Romantics is to realize that wholeness and completeness come from their acceptance and appreciation of what the present moment offers – in other words, from the inside out, not from the outside in. Disappointments and deficiencies are part of the fabric of life, and not a signal of a deficiency of being.


How You Can Self-Develop and Fulfill Your Relationships
Accept that wholeness and realness exist now in the present moment
Practice equanimity by stabilizing attention on what is positive and present, rather than what is missing
Resist domination by your strong and sometimes fluctuating feelings while still acknowledging their authenticity
Sustain a steady course of action even in the presence of intense feelings
“Fill in the middle” by your appreciating the ordinary
Separate your self-esteem from being special or extraordinary
In meditation, noticing how feelings come up and attention goes to what is missing and longed for
Observing the intense feelings and resisting acting on them, which can create more suffering and crises
Realizing that sarcasm, suffering, specialness, and self-absorption are the addictive substitutes for loss and feelings of abandonment
Developing a balance of feelings, thoughts, and actions
Building appropriate action plans to keep from absorption in your feelings
Staying consistent when you “lose it”
Appreciating idealism while separating your identification from it
How You Can Help a Type 4 Self-Develop and Fulfill Their Relationships
Encourage your Type 4 to not be overrun by feelings, and to appreciate what is positive in the present moment
Encourage your Type 4 to stabilize their attention and to “fill in the middle” by valuing the ordinary
Show them that you understand by showing empathy first before offering help
Stay steady when their feelings are intense, and reveal your own feelings and reactions
Appreciate their ultimate idealism
Let your Type 4 know that they are lovable, regardless of their identification with specialness, a flawed self, or unworthiness

https://drdaviddaniels.com/type-4/

[youfloweryourfeast]

Is SLEs bad Ne they can walk over others abuse them?

[Adam Strange]

Is SLEs bad Ne they can walk over others abuse them?

I think that SLEs can appear to be forceful (high Se) and unaware of how they feel (low Fi) and how their actions are affecting others (low Fe). I don't think the way that you see them is the way that they want to be seen, but they are at the mercy of their function stack.

As are we all.

[Muira]

The defense mechanisms matter because Enneagram is all about defense mechanisms. That is the core of the entire system.

According to official theory, types cannot change. I disagree with that, though, as I disagree that Enneagram should even be considered a personality theory at all. I think it should have just been a list of defense mechanisms some people may sometimes use.

I see...it seemed as though you were trying to type me as E4.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to help me understand, if I'm honest.

One of the problems with your comparison is that assuming the process based on seeing only the outcome is erroneous. For example, being different is not the same as wanting to be. I desire neither to stand apart, nor blend in. I simply desire to be my authentic self without caring where I stand in relation to others. 4s feel a need to be special because they fear being worthless. I share this not in defense, but to explain how type theories can cause people to misunderstand others in general.

I mean you could be sx4, but again sx4 is the most rebellious and cocky e4, and a very volatile/competitive type, but has a strong sense of hatred/love. However it's also so close to sx8, and you seem more sx8 than sp8, that sp8 is the most awkward and stale e8. A well known sx4 is Mike Tyson.

[youfloweryourfeast]

With SLEs you are forced to adapt to their behavior so if they dislike someone it's because of what your doing, they like people to follow what they go by and they will like this
You can't expect them to change for you due to fit polr