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Thread: Enneagram type 4

  1. #761
    haikus necrosebud's Avatar
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    Mia in Blue My Mind (spoiler) might tap into the 4 archetype (what she represents, not the character per se)



    also reminds me of black swan
    Last edited by necrosebud; 04-28-2024 at 03:45 AM.

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    if it isn't Mr. Nice Guy Ave's Avatar
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    @Braingel I've been thinking alot about what we discussed, re enneagrammer making four to sound five-fixed in their descriptions, and I actually think they made it sound one-fixed instead. In the EU group, there is alot of emphasis on fours being outwardly upset, sour, and even hostile and while I definitely think that this is true of all fours, it's not the only aspect and it will mainly manifest most overtly in one-fxed fours (like Joseph). The reason Joseph is considered so disdainful and sees all fours as being as disdainful as he is because he is one-fixed. Eight and nine-fixed fours are not so overly sour and critical, in my observations, but one-fixed fours are.

    I do relate to alot of things in the EU four description though, for example differenciating from others almost automatically, wanting to be more "badass" in my image than "nice" and so forth. There was something posted recently in the EU facebook group about fours's depression being "spicy" vs the depression of nines being more "morose". I do think that when I have been depressed, it was accompanied by a sense of hostility and ediginess towards society, not morosity. So I do think they get alot right, the problem with Joseph/EU's writings is that they address themselves to core attachment types who are mistyped as fours...and they write as if every self-typed four is actually a nine who mistypes, and while I think that that is definitely a thing on the internet, I also think four is not that rare from people I know irl. I can think of many people, not just myself who fit EU's description of four. EU leaves out the aspect of four that says that fours are in touch with their emotions, but that is because that is not applicable only to fours and they are kind of preaching to mistyped nines.

    I do agree that there is gatekeeping of four (not on purpose, but subconsciously) by EU/Jospeh and actual fours get typed as something else by their service...but I don't even think that is because real fours don't fit their descriptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    Fluff.
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/c...ary_and_guide/

    Type 4’s: A summary and guide.
    Personal Growth & Insight
    There’s a lot of discussion going on about 4’s at the moment so I thought I’d weigh in. Below are some traits I think are core to being a 4.


    Preoccupied by a sense of longing and yearning - often confused for envy.


    Four’s are often beautiful idealists with big dreams. However, they feel a difficult push-pull relationship with these longings. They often feel naïve for believing them possible, broken for never being able to achieve them, and a frustrated that they can’t get what they want. It’s like their inner child voice is like ‘then we’ll live happily ever after in a big castle’ then they shut themselves down with a strict parent voice like 'don’t be so stupid, you’re too X to ever get that – that’s not real or that’s only for other people.' They see themselves (or the world) as broken, deficient, or flawed in some way - that they can't have what they want because they're different in some way and therefore it's unattainable.


    This 4-type of 'envy' more "refers to the sense that what is valued and needed is outside of yourself and unavailable...can feel like a longing or an intense craving for whatever will make you feel happy or whole" but isn't like traditional envy. There's this Welsh word called 'Hireath' which means "a deep longing, homesickness, and grief for a 'place' you've never been or maybe doesn't exist" and I think this is kind of the 4's vice.


    4's are kind of chasing this magical place/person/feeling where they're safe to express themselves and be loved/accepted for who they are where they don't feel broken. But they simultaneously don't think it exists (although they'll still chase it with a secret hope) hence the kind of sadness/frustration to them. It's a kind of wistful whimsical melancholy forlorn longing.


    There’s a great quote about soulmates where “according to Greek mythology, humans were originally created with four arms, four legs and a head with two faces. Fearing their power, Zeus split them into two separate parts, condemning them to spend their lives in search of their other halves.” This is kind of how 4’s feel but, instead, of it being their ‘soulmate’ it’s something they can't quite place. They feel like they’re missing something and constantly longing for it. A lot the time this tends to click into place when they accept and love themselves, realising that they're not 'broken' outsiders and it's okay to be different.


    Obsessed with finding/creating meaning and the fear of being replaceable


    Four’s see meaning in everything, including (and especially) where there is none. They want themselves and their lives to be important and special. “A chance encounter, the weather, a passing remark, or the glimmer in their gaze” etc are all ascribed meaning. This serves as a defense mechanism to combat a fear of meaninglessness, emptiness, and nothingness. Four’s want be full. Full of meaning, emotions, life, intensity etc. They’re trying to avoid being nothing, boring, like others, or a blank canvas. So they paint themselves with everything, they create multi-faceted unique personalities for themselves, and collect puzzle pieces to fill in their gaps. They overly reflect and ponder things, often stuck inside their heads trying to figure it out and how it all connects. They both overly romanticise and overly criticise things.


    They’re terrified of being replaceable and not mattering, like that ‘Somebody You Used to Know’ by Gotye song lyrics “Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing” is one of their worst fears. It doesn’t matter if it’s painful or spiteful or hateful, 4’s want to matter and be remembered – even if negatively. But, overall, they want to be seen and remembered for who they truly are. Warts and all. Ideally for their best inner selves though.


    4’s at some point likely were taught, or subconsciously picked up, that people often ‘replace’ people with someone similar like friends or boyfriends breaking up with them then replacing them with someone else seemingly similar as if they never existed or mattered in the first place. This is like their worse fear. Hence why, subconsciously, they build up a unique identity for themselves so that they’ll be meaningful, irreplaceable, and ‘not like the other girls.’


    Over identifying with temporary extreme emotions and authentic expression


    4’s love their emotions being dialled up to 100% all of the time. They naturally deeply and intensely feel the full spectrum of emotions, this makes them feel alive and like they’re being true to themselves. They need to openly and authentically express themselves to feel safe and alive. If it’s big and powerful, then it means something. This often means they can often be overdramatic.


    Bawling their eyes out over their favourite TV characters death, mourning them for weeks obsessively watching the clip over and over again then writing fanfiction about them. Feeling like the world is falling apart because you broke your favourite cup and you’ll never be happy again but then feeling super happy over the moon an hour later because you ate your favourite food. Someone didn’t reply to you immediately which means they hate you and you’ve typed up an angry message ready to send but then they reply and you’re super happy relieved. These are all likely common things for 4’s to go through. 4’s have a bad habit of feeling like their emotions are permanent and all-encompassing. They’re so zoned in on the moment/feeling that they can’t see the bigger picture or what it would be like to not feel that way until they do.


    They want to be lightning rods for emotions, letting it consume them. Another lyric from ‘Somebody You Used to Know’ by Gotye song “You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness” suits them. They believe their emotional states serve an important purpose and that living through every feeling is a part of being human. Living the authentic human experience. Music is also extremely important to 4’s as an emotional regulator and intensifier. They also use music and their emotions to inspire and motivate themselves. At their core their constantly looking for inspiration and meaning.


    Feel somewhat ‘broken’ and ‘other’ themselves as an ego defence


    4’s long for so much but fear they can't have it due to some perceived deficiency e.g. want true love that movie characters have but be 'envious' that they will never get it because they think they’re unlovable due to being so different etc. 4’s often come to believe themselves ‘broken’ for it helps them stay stuck in their fantasy as an ego defense so they never truly hope because they're so scared of never getting the things they so desperately want. They create a kind of illusion of brokenness and otherness to create meaning and protect themselves from the pain of meaning nothing. It makes more sense for them to be broken and different than for there to be no rhyme or reason why.


    They often tend to wallow in and romantically overindulge themselves in this state of brokenness. It’s something they can control and build upon in their mental structure of how the world works and how they fit into it. They want to be seen and their suffering acknowledged but they do tend to overemphasise with it therefore trapping themselves in an illusionary cage of their own making. For, in reality, they were never broken to begin with and their suffering is no more or less than others. They often look down upon others, thinking them like boring sheep, whereas they're 'unique' which is another defence mechanism.


    Something that 4's often heavily relate to is the Japanese concept of 'kintsugi' where you mend broken things (particularly pottery) with gold which makes it more valuable and beautiful than the original. That damage doesn't strip them of their worth but, in fact, enhances it. They are more than they were before. Becoming more full. Becoming a more complex, nuanced, and meaningful story. They wear their damage like a badge of pride. They made beauty out of the suffering and are now stronger than before.


    What does an unhealthy 4 look like?


    Depressed and despairing. Feels hopeless, pointless, and like nothing matters. Hates and blames themselves but projects it onto others, blaming and hating them instead. Drives away people who try to help them, secretly hoping they’ll come back if they loved them enough. They didn’t come back therefore no one loves them enough and never did. They don’t matter. Nothing matters. Everything is the end of the world. Overdramatic and self-destructive. Constantly on alert and intensely emotional whilst also being extremely exhausted. Tries to escape and numb themselves with substances and media. Alienates self from others, simultaneously thinking themselves awful for being different and superior for being different. Acting like the victim, over victimising themselves, trying to get attention and pity from others. Can be manipulate, resentful, envious, selfish, and obsessive. Sense of heaviness, dragging themselves and others down.


    What does an average 4 look like?


    Romantic dreamers who think they’re different from everyone and ‘broken’ in some way. Overly emotional, obsessed with finding meaning, and interiorize everything - taking everything personally. Can seem self-absorbed and withdrawn, living in a fantasy world. Have a strong sense of identity. Can seem self-pitying and self-indulgent, wallowing in their emotional states and being unproductive. Trapped and stuck, not moving forward, going over their past and mistakes over and over again. They need to be authentic and openly express themselves but also don’t often feel safe doing so. They’re moody and hypersensitive. They’re often imaginative and creative, channelling their emotions into art or writing etc. They’re constantly looking for something, longing for more, and trying to refine themselves. Not satisfied with what they have and want more.


    What does a healthy 4 look like?


    Have sense of deep appreciation and acceptance for who they are and what they have. They become more self-confident, self-possessed, and self-aware - start feeling fuller instead of emptier and lighter instead of heavier. They start to realise they were never truly broken in the first place and, therefore, don't need to be fixed. They stop seeing themselves as a victim and start taking more proactive control over their life. Still passionate and emotional, they channel this into positive outlets – becoming of a source of motivation and inspiration lighting up others and creating meaningful work. Their authenticity and self-honesty take on a kind of wise sage beauty that penetrates through the fake personas of the world, asking people meaningful questions that help them figure out what they want from their lives etc. Where the world may seek to crush them, they say no and take a different path. They lead interesting and beautiful lives (often outside the system) that others might not think possible but their thought-provoking insights and unique viewpoints allow them to see the world differently. They express themselves with purpose, individualism, and unparalleled self-conviction. They finally feel a sense of wholeness and completeness, like they've refined themselves.
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