Enneagram type 4

[lynn]

[Number 9 large]

https://youtu.be/QWE_M0CX9So

4w3

[lynn]

4w5 ESI





The second video shows a 4 - 8 dynamic, I guess.

[ergot]

(w5)

[lynn]

4w3

[lynn]

[Hays]

Is the lady in the add of the link dancing/exercising like an enneagram type 4?
I remember in the past coming across something which indicated this would be type 4’s most natural workout manner.

https://www.campaignasia.com/video/c...e-1980s/462199

[lynn]

[lynn]

[Aria]

Born with a void hard to destroy with love or hope
Built with a heart broken from the start

[Raven Song]

[lynn]

[necrosebud]

To other enneagram 4s (or anyone else who wants to respond) - how has the enneagram been useful to you in self-growth?

[necrosebud]

The 4 personality mechanism feels so counterintuitive

[qaz00]

I am beginning to question again the core motivation of 4 "wanting to be unique" at least as it applies to me. I can understand why someone would see it that way but I almost feel like it doesn't get to the real, true heart of the matter. Or maybe it's just me. I think I have serious reality distortion regarding feelings of abandonment, esp. wrt trauma and abandonment, or this odd sense of detachment reaction (others') that doesn't make any reasonable sense (to my trauma) and so on. But I have wholeheartedly believed it to be true up until now. I really believed people were callous enough to not care if I were traumatized or even died (so what would be the point of close relationships if they didn't care anyway? - hence why my swing between Avoidant and Anxious). It was this wordless but real terror underlying the entirety of last 1.5 decade. I genuinely and wholeheartedly believed it. Then SX issues on top of that - these issues get filtered through how I feel about my own power to attract those I want. Hmm...anyways, core issue I think for me severe reality distortion a few steps down from veritable psychosis (thank god; well, I mean to say, this is more serious than say having low self-esteem or some situational depression) but it creates all these self-reinforcing loops, dysfunctional relational patterns and so on. I wish I could just...bonk my neurons into firing a different way. Firing the way they did when I had that insight...lol.

well, I think I have made considerable progress.

I will say though that invalidation (from others) really destroyed my ability to sense who I really was and two main lessons: 1) I was never this horrible person, but in fact a misunderstood and non-malicious one this entire time and that 2) my condition was not as severe (I was being gaslighted and my character smeared). It took me years to understand what happened, but I am beginning to get a better sense of it now.

This problem with self-invalidation ultimately makes me question what to trust though. Wrt my intuition and feelings I mean.

Sorry if I'll sound ignorant or simplify too much as I'm not you and don't know your situation but don't you think you're overthinking and try to analyze yourself unnecessarily? That's my impression from your posts here. From my experience, thinking about why I'm the way I am and trying to find reasons for my problems doesn't solve anything and gives a fake sense of progress (I think I understood something about me or relations with someone but my life is still the same, just wasted time for thinking and unnecessary emotional discomfort). When I spend time doing things I like or something useful I feel better than when I focus on this kind of things. It's mostly about changing habits, learning how not to allow some thoughts to develop. Keep it simple

[lynn]

[lynn]

[thistle]

[PinKDiGiT18]

I feel a magnetic attraction towards some 8s. I wouldn’t say they are my ideal match, though potentially a passionate one. I don’t know what the 4+6 hype is all about, because IRL 6s are the e-type I find most difficult to get along with.

I’ve been consistently attracted to 7s and 3s.

[lynn]

i do agree with him being 4w3... even stereotypically so. though i think he's sx-first > social

such a 4w3333

[lynn]

Gerard Way from My Chemical Romance

[InterPrizeWes]

I guess Braingel is this type, so the choice bandwidth of center heart photo perfect link to hazy liberty and counsel of blessed oak trees and brilliant legacies is all on the line!!

She takes mythic themes from high minded sagas and reinvents sacred plazas with spark and rhythm for apples and cardinals to grace the arena.

[lynn]

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I try not to judge 4's. Ngl, it's hard.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Enneagram has evolved so much from what I can tell; ichazo’s 4 aside from the over reasoner bit reminds me quite a bit of E3 with that kind of dysfunction and focus on envy.

4 has always been about that. It's basically all just one giant pity-party over self-induced problems. Most people don't realize what E4 truly is. The only thing that has evolved is your understanding of 4, most likely.

Personally, I might have issues with playing the rescuer role too much (to the point of neglecting my own needs), but even I don't have the patience for it. I'm like...if you want to be a victim and feel alone so badly, go play the victim by yourself. I'm not the rescuer you're wanting. I don't have time for people who want to stay where they are while griping about it.

IDK, I do value diversity and not discriminating, especially based on "types," but true E4s (not the ones who relate to the more well-known aspects) are the only type in any system that, if I'm honest, I can't stand. So much of the type just conflicts with my values, I guess. I hate weak self-victimization bullshit. It's utterly reprehensible in my eyes. I'm kind of like...well, yeah, good thing it's a shame type, as that is worthy of shame. Lol.

Sigh...every once in a while, I do try to look more into this type in search of opening my mind, gaining understanding, and trying not to hate the type so much. Instead, I only am reminded of why I have 0 respect for these qualities, and I angrily speak out against them. I don't know how to soften my heart toward this nonsense.

EDIT:
Fuck, I hope I never end up with an E4 kid...that's going to be a huge obstacle for me to overcome in order to be a better parent, if so...

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I realize my words can be offensive, but denying the truth doesn't change it, it just makes it stagnate in secret. If anyone thinks they have some way for me to gain compassion for this type, then by all means, I'm all ears. I'm simply not going to deny how I see it.

Speaking of stagnation...I find E4 and Se Ego to be a strange combination. As in, I question whether it's even possible. E4 is an incredibly stagnant type, and it's not focused on moving forward whatsoever. It aligns more with Se-suggestive, which needs a push from others, since 4's basically wait around for rescuers while being self-indulgent in/generating intensity of feelings.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

not really

“The 4th point's true ideals are rising to the top in various expressions that are unknown to the outside observer and as such the true nature of such an individual is obfuscated to the outside world.”

this seems pretty 3ish to me

Sounds 4w3. I mean, 3 is a wing option of 4...it makes sense for there to be some similarities. The envy stuff has always been E4, though.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

4s and 3s rule ur just used to solving problems by brute force and being intelligent instead of having to better and grow urself through trauma and repetitious ego deaths by spiritual rape. this also comes from Ne PoLR probably where u dont consider the people u are walking over that would take a toll on ur consciencen that would result in the ego deaths. i dont know if all the ESIs are like this but ones i know are so self absorbed and need to take things too far AND end up not changing their god damn mind anyway.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

not using whatever's available to cause collateral damage to someone who won't be able to deal with it, based on established structures of assholes who dont want to move their fcking ass from what doesn't belong to them > self induced problems.
thats how psychopaths also refer to conscience.
having bad intuition is not an excuse to deny the reality u dont perceive.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

not using whatever's available to cause collateral damage to someone who won't be able to deal with it, based on established structures of assholes who dont want to move their fcking ass from what doesn't belong to them > self induced problems.
thats how psychopaths also refer to conscience.
having bad intuition is not an excuse to deny the reality u dont perceive.

It's one thing to misunderstand where I'm coming from or what I'm talking about, but don't accuse me of sociopathic behavior just because you can't see my point of view. Especially when I'm literally sitting here talking about how I'm trying to understand 4s better. It's a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation. I get that you feel offended so you're reacting emotionally in all of that, so I'm not taking it personally...besides, I've learned by now not to take anything you say personally...but go back and re-read my words: I have consistently come from the angle of being honest/transparent about my views while saying I find them wrong because I do not agree with discrimination. Take a look at my phrasing, I'm very careful with my words. I've talked about it being something *I* would need to overcome if I ever had an E4 kid, I've invited help in seeing things differently than I do. Your responses are just emotionally lashing out, which is understandable, but also isn't helping anything. Maybe try to use some communication skills to share your perspective instead, it'd go much further than obviously baseless claims that compare expressing my stance honestly, yet also saying it's wrong and inviting alternative insights, to sociopathy. I can tolerate some emotional lashing out, but that sort of character assassination is a rather extreme overreaction to what I've said.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

It's one thing to misunderstand where I'm coming from or what I'm talking about, but don't accuse me of sociopathic behavior just because you can't see my point of view. Especially when I'm literally sitting here talking about how I'm trying to understand 4s better. It's a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation. I get that you feel offended so you're reacting emotionally in all of that, so I'm not taking it personally...besides, I've learned by now not to take anything you say personally...but go back and re-read my words: I have consistently come from the angle of being honest/transparent about my views while saying I find them wrong because I do not agree with discrimination. Take a look at my phrasing, I'm very careful with my words. I've talked about it being something *I* would need to overcome if I ever had an E4 kid, I've invited help in seeing things differently than I do. Your responses are just emotionally lashing out, which is understandable, but also isn't helping anything. Maybe try to use some communication skills to share your perspective instead, it'd go much further than obviously baseless claims that compare expressing my stance honestly, yet also saying it's wrong and inviting alternative insights, to sociopathy. I can tolerate some emotional lashing out, but that sort of character assassination is a rather extreme overreaction to what I've said.

i appreciate ur efforts and i dont accuse u completely if that makes sense. there are flaws in everyone. it is sociopathic or wrong or whatever words u want to use in the borders it is in. i can use thoes words. of course there's more to someone's views that give the relevant broader context. i dont mean that u are sociopathic or only sociopathic. even people with ASPD vary between each other in how they are in that. i was refering to the mentality not your holistic character. i didnt quote u on purpose bc i perceived ur intentions and didnt see it necessary to talk to u about it, because we've talked about it before, and i dont know what more to tell you. i think i get u so far. i just wanted to throw my words out there.
u can describe it as emotionally lashing out, and i can describe urs as repressed emotions due to wounded inner child that u may project on others as their weakness. its what it seems to me, in case u or someone goes telling me i shouldnt be diagnosing people or expressing those ideas at all bc idk some people COULD (could in case u think its me trying to make yet more accussations) just figure they can tell me i cant talk about their issues as if i know them, but again, its a pattern, epxerienes and personalities that are relevant to many people by themselves. its just making guesses and associations. im not trying to tell u who u are or what ur experiences are.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

i appreciate ur efforts and i dont accuse u completely if that makes sense. there are flaws in everyone. it is sociopathic or wrong or whatever words u want to use in the borders it is in. i can use thoes words. of course there's more to someone's views that give the relevant broader context. i dont mean that u are sociopathic or only sociopathic. even people with ASPD vary between each other in how they are in that. i was refering to the mentality not your holistic character. i didnt quote u on purpose bc i perceived ur intentions and didnt see it necessary to talk to u about it, because we've talked about it before, and i dont know what more to tell you. i think i get u so far. i just wanted to throw my words out there.
u can describe it as emotionally lashing out, and i can describe urs as repressed emotions due to wounded inner child that u may project on others as their weakness. its what it seems to me, in case u or someone goes telling me i shouldnt be diagnosing people or expressing those ideas at all bc idk some people COULD (could in case u think its me trying to make yet more accussations) just figure they can tell me i cant talk about their issues as if i know them, but again, its a pattern, epxerienes and personalities that are relevant to many people by themselves. its just making guesses and associations. im not trying to tell u who u are or what ur experiences are.

I mean, I don't quite understand whatever your interpretation of my actions is, but my own mentality is pretty far from sociopathic either way. I've talked with psychs, etc, I am HSP, which is basically the opposite of ASPD.

EDIT

No idea why I'm being so defensive about this when I know I shouldn't even take it seriously. I guess I just am used to being a scapegoat and also being misunderstood as fuck, with people basically interpreting my good intentions as evil ones. Like...call out a manipulative person, trying to be a whistleblower, and get accused (by the very people I was trying to protect) of being manipulative/vindictive for calling them out...that kind of thing.

I've had one person I called out accuse me of being dark triad before, but...that same person also said E2 "demands to be abused," so clearly it's projection.

I get overly sensitive about being falsely accused and misunderstood. Maybe it's partly a 6 thing, also. Or, maybe I just work my ass off to go out of my way to be good to people, and hate the slap in the face of that being seen in some negative way that it isn't. Who knows.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I get overly sensitive about being falsely accused and misunderstood. Maybe it's partly a 6 thing, also. Or, maybe I just work my ass off to go out of my way to be good to people, and hate the slap in the face of that being seen in some negative way that it isn't. Who knows.

do you mean people misjudging who u are and what u are about? sounds like E4. like i dont like being slapped in the face for not trying hard enough or my efforts as worthless when they aren't

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

do you mean people misjudging who u are and what u are about? sounds like E4. like i dont like being slapped in the face for not trying hard enough or my efforts as worthless when they aren't

It sounds like E4 on the surface, but it isn't. That's something you have to be careful about with Enneagram, it can cause you to make unfounded leaps in gathering information. "What" can be similar without "why" being the same.

[lynn]

IDK, I do value diversity and not discriminating, especially based on "types," but true E4s (not the ones who relate to the more well-known aspects) are the only type in any system that, if I'm honest, I can't stand. So much of the type just conflicts with my values, I guess. I hate weak self-victimization bullshit. It's utterly reprehensible in my eyes. I'm kind of like...well, yeah, good thing it's a shame type, as that is worthy of shame. Lol

The character you picked as your avatar is 4w5, btw.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

The character you picked as your avatar is 4w5, btw.

Dunno if I agree with that...but I don't go around typing characters. Typology stays on the forums for me, mostly...once I log out, I don't type others. I generally understand people better than typology systems do, I don't need them. Jinx is too mentally ill to type imo anyway, though.

[lynn]

Dunno if I agree with that...but I don't go around typing characters. Typology stays on the forums for me, mostly...once I log out, I don't type others. I generally understand people better than typology systems do, I don't need them. Jinx is too mentally ill to type imo anyway, though.

I think they did a really good job portraying her enneatype. You can also VI it in non-verbal cues/ facial expressions (the e4 sad eyes).



I'm not only talking about adult Jinx (and her adult mental health issues), it's super obvious with Powder as well when she was young. Typical 4w5 kid.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I think they did a really good job portraying her enneatype. You can also VI it in non-verbal cues/ facial expressions (the e4 sad eyes).



I'm not only talking about adult Jinx (and her adult mental health issues), it's super obvious with Powder as well when she was young. Typical 4w5 kid.

I don't VI, nor do I conflate sadness with E4.
Regardless, I have barely seen it, so I'd appreciate avoiding any spoilers (saying as a precaution).
I also don't really care what their types are.

[lynn]

Yes, ok, no spoilers...

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I think they did a really good job portraying her enneatype. You can also VI it in non-verbal cues/ facial expressions (the e4 sad eyes).



I'm not only talking about adult Jinx (and her adult mental health issues), it's super obvious with Powder as well when she was young. Typical 4w5 kid.

what makes u think 4w5 over 4w3