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Thread: Enneagram type 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    @Medusa @DaddyLessons @Chae got some enneagram questions: are you naturally attracted to the type you integrate to, but it isn't a mutual attraction? like e4 into e1?
    Because I read there were lots of e6 and e9 couples.. since e6 integrates to e9 but e9 disintegrates to e6 is this an uneven relationship for example?

    And for a IEI 4w3 which SLE ennearam type would be the best match theoretically? From the possible SLE types such as 3,6,7 and 8 I mean.
    Cool question! It happens quite often that people find each other among the arrows so to say, it also goes both ways. But natural attraction... depends on how much resistance you have to your (dis)integration. And the other person's tritype that may include your main type. That way, it can become less imbalanced. The integrator type can have the upper hand over the integratee though, yes, 9> 6 for instance.

    6 and 9 fit together like 5 and 2 in a way, so there are other common combinations without integration processes that go like this. I wouldn't look for a 1 in particular if you're a 4, especially since that leads you into Ij territory.

    I would avoid the SLE 8, you need to overlap somehow. SLE 3 is good. SLE 7 and 6 are a mixed bag. If you go for the fun and fierceness, 7 is the right address. Gotta mess with the system, take the 6. 3 would be the best match with your wing, that's why. Your instinct complement is SX/SP right, so this would create a very counterphobic or difficult SLE 6 or 8, although that's up to you. Just saying since you want to circumvent the SLE douche factor as you said elsewhere. Although if you get a healthy person there, no issue of course. 3 adds a polished and pragmatic touch, if they wing at 4, even better to build a bridge to you. SLE 3 SX/SP would be close to Ronda Rousey (I stopped believing she's a 6 or 8, 3 is more likely she says failure at success is her greatest fear) and Madonna antics, do you think you'd have chemistry with such a person? Forget that they're female if you're heterosexual, just the overall vibe - what do you think?



    I could imagine SLE 3w2 SP/SO would also be pretty good. For the 7 SLE, maybe a 6-wing is better theoretically to link to your tritype. Who you meet decides stuff by chance anyways, although you probably know what you attract energetically and what your preferences are, so choose from the cases above.

    PS: The tag for @Daddy Lessons didn't work, mentioning him again <3

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    Do you know a synflow SLE E3 @Medusa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Do you know a synflow SLE E3 @Medusa?
    Nope...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Nope...
    And contraflow, either wing is possible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    And contraflow, either wing is possible?
    I am not sure of any SLE 3s, tbh.
    There is one celebrity that could be a 3w2 So/Sp SLE, other than that, I don't know of any SLE 3s.
    They either don't exist or are very rare, at least afaik. Could just be me. The SLEs I know of and where I am sure of their types are 6s, 7s, and 8s.
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    An SEE with 3-influence is likely easier to find for the 4w3 IEI

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    On average, it seems like most 4s do best with a 9 or a 2.
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    .
    Last edited by dot; 02-17-2020 at 02:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    @Medusa @DaddyLessons @Chae got some enneagram questions: are you naturally attracted to the type you integrate to, but it isn't a mutual attraction? like e4 into e1?
    Because I read there were lots of e6 and e9 couples.. since e6 integrates to e9 but e9 disintegrates to e6 is this an uneven relationship for example?

    And for a IEI 4w3 which SLE ennearam type would be the best match theoretically? From the possible SLE types such as 3,6,7 and 8 I mean.
    I really love 5s so I would say yes. I'm not totally sure if it's mutual because, you know how 5s are... but I think it is. I get along better with some self typed 1s more than I expected too but I'm not sure if they're really 1s either.

    Also I would say Madonna is SLE 3w4 sx/so if you're looking for an example. They usually look more like ethical types but aren't when you actually sit down and talk to them, like Madonna was always super logically-based in interviews unless she was goofing around.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

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    Default 4w3

    "Real love doesn’t meet you at your best.
    It meets you in your mess."


    J.S. Park

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    Default Envy in 4s

    Found this helpful description of the Envy in 4s. Unfortunately I do not know who came up with this, but it is quite accurate imo. @MaviTilki @maniac @suedehead

    Fours feel something important is missing from their essential makeup. They aren’t sure what it is, whether it was taken from them or they had it long ago but lost it - only that the missing part is nowhere to be found and they are to blame. The result is they feel “different”, ashamed, uncertain about who they are and uneasy in the world. Fours believe they alone have this tragic flaw, to when they compare themselves to others (which is all the time), they feel interior. Fours often feel “ruled by a hidden shame”. The joy and completeness others seem to enjoy is a daily reminder of what they themselves lack.

    Fours long to enjoy the party of life, but the absence of that fundamental something disqualifies them from getting an invitation. They’ve been exiled to the “Land of Misfit Toys” through some nameless fault of their own.

    It’s no surprise that envy is the deadly sin of Fours. They envy normalcy, happiness, and the sense of comfort with which others seem to move through life. They instantly spot who has a more interesting life, a happier family or childhood story, a better job, superior taste, a more privileged education, more distinguishing clothes, or unrivaled artistic talent. Envy, coupled with their pervasive sense of “irredeemable deficiency” launches fours of a never-ending quest to find the missing piece, without which they never feel at home in the world. Sadly, fixating on what’s missing, Fours are blind to what’s present in their lives, namely the many wonderful qualities they already possess.

    (For the record, Envy and Jealousy are different. Envy has to do with desiring a characteristic others posses, while jealous occurs when we feel like something we already posses is at risk of being taken from us. Though Envy is their big sin, Fours experience jealousy as well, in the form of their fear of abandonment and expresses itself in the possessiveness they feel towards the people they love.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Found this helpful description of the Envy in 4s. Unfortunately I do not know who came up with this, but it is quite accurate imo. @MaviTilki @maniac @suedehead
    I think my envy would maybe rather be towards people who do similar things/have similar goals as me and thus it is a somewhat competitive thinking so I try to keep up. I sometimes wish I was someone who wouldn't feel like such a natural outcast, like the people who seem to get along with everybody and move so easily through life/seem so content. I accept though that there are people who have a better living standard than me.. I am not really envious of material things like money or the 'rich life'.. I think everyone who would've been born into a wealthy family would use these resources after all, a very human thing to do. And I also do not relly envy others for their joy or the good things happening to them, I actually dislike people who cannot wish others well, though it is hard with people you really can't stand.. simply because you do not like them.

    For me personally I can relate very much to the missing piece within me, I always feel there should be more.. it could be better.. and I never feel content. A horrible curse and I should see the many gifts which were given to me.
    Yeah I become very jealous when I feel my loved ones might leave or forget about me. I actually do have a strong fear of abandonment.. and I noticed I become clingy like an e2 when I am afraid of that or just unhealthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I think the difference between 3's and 4's envy is the fact that the envy of 4 is always strongly tied to their own personal identity and their ideal version of themselves.
    Whereas the envy of 3 is much more generalized in a way. In case of 3w4, their envy is more individualistic and personalized in comparison to the envy of a 3w2. The 3w2 is the kind of person who'd just want the newest sports car or the newest gadget because it is trendy right now. They don't have a particularly individual take on the matter. Their identity is of being successful, so almost any cool sports car would do (if they are 4 wing, the sports car would have to match their tastes more closely, but it is the same principle). Whereas with a Type 4, their identity is tied to being either "unique" or more accurately "uniquely themselves", "being one of a kind", etc. Sometimes, 4w3 create their personal identity of wanting to be successful as well, so they may also get the fancy car to appear successful. But usually, their identity goes deeper than just being successful or trendy etc.
    For me, personally, I can be envious of rich people - looking at fancy Hollywood villas, I want one for myself badly : ) In general rich lifestyle - private planes, designer clothes, fast cars, expensive champagne, exclusive holiday resorts, access to cool plastic surgery hehe,... -that kind of shit. But probably many people desire that Besides of people in happy relationships when I'm single, that's the only thing I'm jealous of. But I never really feel inferior because of that, I more feel like I deserve those things and am entitled to them -and god damn it, why wasnt I born rich : P

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    For me, personally, I can be envious of rich people - looking at fancy Hollywood villas, I want one for myself badly : ) In general rich lifestyle - private planes, designer clothes, fast cars, expensive champagne, exclusive holiday resorts, access to cool plastic surgery hehe,... -that kind of shit. But probably many people desire that Besides of people in happy relationships when I'm single, that's the only thing I'm jealous of. But I never really feel inferior because of that, I more feel like I deserve those things and am entitled to them -and god damn it, why wasnt I born rich : P
    Yeah I felt a sense of entitlement too.. but it looked pretty stupid/like a nasty bitch whenever I said it in real life.. so I despise that about myself.. Had some very unhealthy 4w3 times when I was younger and was like "pfff.. why not me" basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    Yeah I felt a sense of entitlement too.. but it looked pretty stupid/like a nasty bitch whenever I said it in real life.. so I despise that about myself.. Had some very unhealthy 4w3 times when I was younger and was like "pfff.. why not me" basically.
    It's normal to feel that way -everybody's envious/jealous here and there : )

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    This song kills me every time I hear it.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    most emo E thread <3

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    (for the record I type him so/sx 4w5-9w8-6w7. For a so/sx he seems pretty gut-y and steady which is why I think gut 2nd. Plus he doesnt get stuck in thoughts too much.)

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    (And I type him sp/sx 4w5 459
    Edit: I think 6 fix over 5 fix currently.
    Last edited by maniac; 07-28-2017 at 04:37 PM.

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    Likely Sp/Sx.
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    Default Existential Psychodynamics [Envy & Self Ideal]

    While we have good reason to believe that the pattern of envy originates in frustration of the child's early attachment needs and we may understand the chronic pain in this character as a residue of the pain of the past, it is useful to consider that it may also be a trap for ennea-type IV individuals to get stuck in lamenting over the past. Also, while it is very true that it was love that the child needed urgently and sought, the exaggerated and compulsive search for love in the present may be regarded as a disfunction and only a mirage or approximate interpretation of what the adult is in dire need of. This, rather than outer support, acknowledgment, and care, is the ability to acknowledge, support, and love him- or herself; and also the development of a sense of self as center that might counteract the "ex-centric" expectation of goodness from the outside.

    We may envision type IV psychology precisely from the point of view of an impoverishment of being or selfhood that envy seeks to "fill up" and which is, in turn, perpetuated through self-denigration, though the search for being through love and through the emulation of others. ("I am like Einstein, therefore I exist"). The type IV psyche functions as if it had concluded early in life "I am loved therefore I am not worthless" and now pursues worthiness through the love that was once missing (love me so I know I am all right) ,and through a process of self- refining distortion-through the pursuit of something different and presumably better and nobler than what he or she is.

    These processes are self-frustrating, for love, once obtained, is likely to be invalidated ("he cannot be worthwhile if he loves me") or, having stimulated neurotic claims, leads to frustration and also invalidation on that basis; yet, more basically, the pursuit of being through the emulation of the self- ideal stands on a basis of self-rejection and of blindness to the value of one's true self Gust as the pursuit of the extraordinary involves denigration of the ordinary). Because of this, type IV needs, in addition to insight into these traps, and more than any other character, the development of self-support: the self-support that comes, ultimately, from appreciative awareness and the sense of dignity of self and of life in all of its forms.

    There is a pathology of values entailed in envy that may be explained in light of the metaphor (which I find in the Arcipreste de Hita's Book Of Good Love) of a dog who carries a bone and who, believing his reflection upon a pool to be another dog with a more desirable bone, opens his jaws as he lunges for it, losing in the process the bone he has. We may say: the reflection of a bone has no "being," just as there is no being in either idealized or deprecated self-images.
    – Claudio Naranjo, Character and Neurosis: An Integrative View
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    how do the tritypes exactly function? and what happens to the E wing then? why did I score different results of the enneagram with every test? o_O

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    *speculating* 4w3 has more visible/obvious shame because they believe more in the ways of the world than 4w5, so they feel even worse that they are clearly missing what is wanted (3)

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    The difference between 7 and 4:


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    Default Advice for 4s on how to move to 1, by a Type 1



    People who are both high in Creativity and Neuroticism tend to be mostly average to unhealthy 4s
    (or sometimes 7w6 or Type 6 with a strong 4 fix).

    Becoming more conscientious, means for 4s to move to (healthy) 1.
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    Lots of enneagram 4 aesthetics by the German photographer Ines Rehberger (She might be 4w5 and either sp/sx or sx/sp). Love her work:








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    Looking at how Melanie acts while on stage and her body langugage it's clear that she's not a 4 (i think shes sx/sp 7w6, 749). Compare to someone like Lana del Rey whose body language is like "omg omg everyone is looking at me, god im so embarrassed and uncomfortable, what do i do with my body" even though she's done it over a hundred times.



    Im posting it here because I've seen people type Melanie as 4 ("because shes unique") and I'm tired of the misconceptions and mistypings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    Looking at how Melanie acts while on stage and her body langugage it's clear that she's not a 4 (i think shes sx/sp 7w6, 749). Compare to someone like Lana del Rey whose body language is like "omg omg everyone is looking at me, god im so embarrassed and uncomfortable, what do i do with my body" even though she's done it over a hundred times.



    Im posting it here because I've seen people type Melanie as 4 ("because shes unique") and I'm tired of the misconceptions and mistypings.













    ALSO, if you actually look at Melanie's lyrics around 90% of it is shame or image type related stuff. It fits sx 4 very well and is aggressive and competitive. You are the only person I have seen type her as 7 and it's a ridiculous typing. But I agree with 749 tritype.

    Lana, on the other hand, fits sx 3 very well if you read the descriptions for it. But not sx 4 at all - she isn't aggressive, vindictive, or openly competitive. I know you type her so 4 but she doesn't fit that either - she is not overtly shameful or whiny and only uses sadness in some of her songs as a background image. Instead she is sweet, focused on beauty and materialism, and the struggle between a mask and the person underneath like sx/sp 3 specifically. You also often say she is 7-ish which is very common for sx 3, and other people say she is very 2-ish which is again a common confusion with sx 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    Lots of enneagram 4 aesthetics by the German photographer Ines Rehberger (She might be 4w5 and either sp/sx or sx/sp). Love her work:







    This is how I imagine a perfect female beauty.


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    4w3


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    Default Do not quote, por favor

    THIS POST MAY SELF DESTRUCT WHEN I COME TO MY SENSES


    ^ song just seems fitting for the post but not my mood right now at all. lol

    It is pretty hard to find good descriptions of 4w5 but this one is pretty good. The bold parts are all that I relate to, which is pretty much all of it. I have cycled the health levels of this type more than once. There were long dark periods of my life where I could hide what I was going through from those closest to me, laugh, smile, when I wanted to, except at my lowest which is when my family, boyfriend and friends would step in and do their interventions to get me into therapy.

    This all started in my preteens. I think I was a happy child once and then things changed. It wasn't that I was unhappy all the time but something felt lacking so I looked for it in places I shouldn't have. I knew I was going to be ok. I am protected by some other worldly force was my belief. Maybe at first that force was god but later I decided it wasn't. I was not like any other kid I knew. I know this was true since it was confirmed by those who examined my mental health. They could not even agree. I felt both special and cursed. I felt I was a divine being, an alien, with special powers which felt very real. Due to synchronicity I felt I willed things into manifestation. I know it sounds a bit silly to some people. lol I was encouraged, by my aunt, to read Shakespeare, very very young, so I did and I understood a lot of it. Maybe I subconsciously made some of the tales a part of my story. Love has to be tragic to mean something. I am pretty much over it now but it is deeply ingrained in my psyche.

    Therapy can be extremely helpful if you are willing to do the hard work involved. Accepting my shadow instead of denying it is the best thing I ever did for myself. I had a very good therapist at that point who made me feel understood (which was rare for me). Even now, with all my insights into humanity, I feel like very few actually can understand where I am coming from, even here and it is meant to be a forum where understanding others is a big focus of the theory. Recently I decided there really are a few people who get me, that I met here, and it is not superficial.

    When I write it is usually to express myself, to show some appreciation of others posts and now and then just to let someone know that there are people out there in the world who gets it, gets them. Believing that no one else could possibly understand was what kept me in the shadows and taught me that secrets had to be taken to the grave. I buried my own and other people's secrets inside me but I was always aware of them, thinking about them, understanding the meaning, purpose for them. Some were oppressive. They made me feel insane. I had voices in my head. I thought I was schizo. I was diagnosed with so many things that didn't fit to me. My unique situation. Therapy allowed me to release so much of it which allowed for me to start healing the sickness inside. If you are having problems I suggest talking to someone whose job is to listen not judge.

    My being sx/sp meant I always had someone by my side, (partner in crime) during these times who would get sucked into my personal hell, if they weren't strong enough to pull us both out. Some have needed therapy after me and expected me to be the one to give it to them. Somehow most of my relationships end in a mutual, positive, way. We still have love for each other even though our paths lead us in different directions and to different people who were more suited for us at the time. Really weird dynamics to those who cannot understand it.

    Anyway, if anyone is trying to distinguish their wing I would recommended considering this quote below. I am also posting something else I found which is similar to something else posted in this thread. @Starfall I thought of you. How do you feel about the 4w5 description? Would you give it 51% weight over 4w3 for your wing?

    Oh I should mention that I am much healthier now and make better choices but it can be a struggle not to fall back into old patterns. It is getting easier since with age comes wisdom if you actually apply the lessons you learn along the way.

    The quote in this spoiler is one of the best pieces of advice I ever got and it was from someone who didn't know anything about enneagram. They just gave it to me in different terms but the bold is the general gist of what they said. I had/have a tendency to withdraw when I get emotionally overwhelmed. I want to analyze the hell out of what I am feeling and then come back with some great epiphany that I can then share with others. I willingly indulge in pain because to suffer emotionally is ultimately my strength. It has almost broke me, more than once but each time I come out stronger, not hardened by it.

    I also feel I withdraw for the protection of other people. I feel that my darkest moods can be detrimental to the mental health of others. I can handle them but some people can't shift as fast as me. That was a problem between me and the ILI. He said he couldn't keep up with how fast and powerful my emotions could shift when I was going through something rough. I could forgive him one moment and the next punish him severely psychologically.

    In most relationships I have had, the guys felt dealing with that was a small price to pay since I made up for it when I was at my best. I don't want to sound like this is all I am or was in the past. I have definitely had lots of great experiences but coming from a very troubled childhood I was damaged and refused to acknowledge it was affecting my whole perspective on life and my relationships, not just romantic ones. I don't know if I consciously looked for a savior but I did choose some pretty strong and resilient partners and we helped each other grow, evolve... A couple of them were probably even more damaged than me when we met. I learned a lot from those relationships too and so did they.

    While examining my life I wondered how anyone ever felt any happiness with me. The reason for that is that I was denying the good things about myself which turn out to far outnumber the bad. Everyone, I was close to, saw that the good far outweighed the bad but me. That is what my self pity looked like. I am not the type to complain and whine about emotion. I complain and whine about trivial things sometimes but not about my feelings. I think this can be a distinguishing point from a 3 wing. I am not going to lie, I felt more undignified when I expressed myself in a 4w3 way. Perhaps it just felt a bit inauthentic. I am more private and reserved than them. I am often vague and like keeping some magic and aura of mystery but not in romance. I like that image and I am not sp/sx, so sx/sp can be like that too. I am not an earthy type. I am fire and water. I am 4w3 when drunk. I don't drink anymore.

    People forget that in the heart triad the 4 is the type that under expresses emotion in order to analyze them. At least the darker emotions. It is the 2 that over expresses their emotions from what I read and what I have witnessed. There was a 2 here who was quite well known for that.

    Do not pay so much attention to your feelings; they are not a true source of support for you, as you probably already know. Remember this advice: "From our present perspective, we can also see that one of the most important mistakes Fours make is to equate themselves with their feelings. The fallacy is that to understand themselves they must understand their feelings, particularly their negative ones, before acting. Fours do not see that the self is not the same as its feelings or that the presence of negative feelings does not preclude the presence of good in themselves" (Personality Types, p. 172). Always remember that your feelings are telling you something about yourself as you are at this particular moment, not necessarily more than that.

    https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-4



    I am kind of proud of how far I have come and just want to tell people.



    4w5

    Personality Types by Ruso and Hudson:


    The traits of Fours and Fives tend to reinforce each other. Both are "withdrawn" types: Fours withdraw to protect their feelings; fives, to protect their security. Thus, this subtype is more reclusive and less ambitious than a four with a three wing. Fours with a five wing will be markedly more observant of the environment, particularly of other people. There is an intellectual depth and intensity here not found in the other subtype, but also a corresponding social insecurity. This subtype can be more insightful and original, but also less likely to do concrete work. Note-worthy examples of the four with a five wing include Virginia Woolf, Edgar Allan Poe, Anne Rice, Ingmar Bergman, D. H. Lawrence, Yukio Mishima, J. D. Salinger, Johnny Depp, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Saul Steinberg, Soren Kierkegaard, Herman Hesse, William Blake, and "Laura Wingfield".


    Healthy, gifted individuals of this subtype are probably the most profoundly creative of all the types because they combine intuition with insight, emotional sensitivity with intellectual comprehension, frequently with stunning, even prophetic results. Fours with a five wing burn brighter than Fours with a three wing, but at the risk of burning themselves out faster. They are often drawn to the arts and social sciences, where their insights into the human condition can be explored. Because of the five wing, individuals of this subtype care less about the opinions of others, so they tend to follow their muse where it leads them. Their self-expression is highly personal and can be somewhat idiosyncratic. They tend to create more for themselves than for an audience.


    Average persons of this subtype are given not merely to self absorption but to philosophical and religious speculation. Their emotional world is the dominant reality, but with a strong intellectual cast. People of this subtype tend to be loners, more lacking in social connectedness than the other subtype. Thus, their artistic expressions more completely substitute for the person than in fours with a three wing. They often display brilliant flashes of insight but have trouble sustaining their efforts. These people also frequently have an otherworldly, ethereal quality about them; they are extremely independent and unconventional to the point of eccentricity. They also tend to be secretive, intensely preoccupied with their thoughts, and purposely enigmatic in their self expression. Their creative ideas may be somewhat unusual, emphasizing the mysterious, even the surreal. They are very attracted to the exotic and the symbolic and tend to be more unusual than their personal presentation--bohemian or, at least, casual. Members of this subtype care little for communicating with those who cannot understand them. Rather, they are interested in expressing their inner vision, whether sublime or terrifying, bleak or lyrical. They tend to choose a simpler lifestyle than Fours with a three wing, but can get caught up in the five's minimizing of needs. Aspects of the five's eccentricity begin to manifest, as well as a high-strung nervous energy. Less healthy fours with a five wing can become very reclusive, daydreaming through life with baroque fantasies and ideas, but increasingly tormented by self doubt and unable to galvanize themselves into constructive action.


    Unhealthy persons of this subtype inhabit a particularly barren inner world. There is a self-denying, even life-denying, element of inner resistance to everything outside the self, throwing all of the four's existential problems into sharper relief. They may have great understanding of their problems, but can more easily become lost in emotional turmoil--fatigue, depression, and hopelessness. Indeed, pondering the nature of their torment leads Fours with a five wing around in circles, heightening both their self contempt and their nihilism. Since Four is the fundamental personality type, Fours with a Five wing are assailed by self doubt, alienation from others, inhibitions in their work, and self-contempt. To the degree that the Five wing plays a part in the overall personality, unhealthy fours with this subtype will also resist being helped by anyone, thus increasing their alienation from others. They also tend to project their fears onto the environment, resulting in distorted thinking patterns which may include hallucinations and phobias. Not only are people of this subtype subject to torment from their self-hatred, they can see little positive outside themselves, and become very pessimistic about the apparent meaningless of life. Of all the personality types, people of this subtype are potentially the most isolated from themselves and from reality. They are prone to the depressive forms of schizophrenia.

    inspired originality
    self-aware intuition
    subtle humanity

    symbolic drama
    withdrawn melancholy
    self-indulgent disdain

    desolate confusion
    guilt-ridden torment
    suicidal despair


    Type four people care more than most about the emotional significance of events. They can become trapped by a sense of the meaninglessness of their own life, and of the world. One of their talents is an intuitive connection to the source of beauty.

    Except in rare cases, people of type four show a flavoring from one of the two adjacent wing points, so we can say they are four with a three wing (4/3) or four with a five wing (4/5).

    Like all humans, fours also come in three instinctual flavors: social (4sc), sexual (4sx), or self-preserving (4sp). In addition, fours also experience nine distinct levels of mental-emotional health (briefly described by the phrases at the top of this page). Therefore, it is possible to distinguish fifty-four distinct subflavors of type four.


    four with three wing



    general description

    Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.


    balanced and transcendent states


    Balanced 4/3 finds the peace of equanimity. When four integrates to one and three integrates to six, deep compassionate wisdom is augmented by a feeling of brotherhood and belonging. Finally, the 4/3 reaches a point where comfort is possible without being tormented by a desire that others recognize that special uniqueness. Others who are feeling emotional difficulty can find sensitive, unselfish understanding in a balanced 4/3.

    When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way. Somehow the advanced 4/3 manages to be both an equal and a teacher, both a sympathetic listener and a disciplined advisor. Real transformations happen in the lives of those who tell their stories to such people. People become powerfully motivated to find the real meaning in their lives.


    unbalanced and unhealthy states


    Unbalanced 4/3 swings through wild emotional cycles. As fourish emotionality gets more out of control, bringing in the selfish expectations of special treatment of the unhealthy two, the three-wing's nineish tendencies cause a kind of split within the psyche. The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.

    In the unhealthy extreme, there is little actual contact with real feelings, despite the possibly awe-inspiring intensity of the outward expression. All the theatrical emotionality is a fearful cover for an inner emptiness that will not go away. Extremely unbalanced 4/3 has become so attached to the outward expression of the false emotions that the real feelings are overwhelmed and drowned out. The conviction of being hopelessly flawed may lead to desperate attempts to end it all with suicide, almost always in some dramatic, attention-grabbing way. I'm a hopeless romantic, unable to live a normal life. I might as well end it all right now, because no one will ever understand my torment. At least then, others might see the depth of my pain.


    physical appearance

    4/3 is the type most interested in a really artful, tastefully unique presentation. They often like to combine black and bright colors. 4/3s are usually thin to medium in build, although there are some exceptions. The females often wear their hair in some way that gives it a lot of body, such as shoulder-length (or longer) curls. Both sexes like to dress up. Some of the most outrageous costumes ever seen in ordinary public places are on 4/3s (the rest are on sevens).


    callings

    Some 4/3s find work that brings out their interest in aesthetics and artistic expression. Novelists, musicians, painters, poets, actors, dancers. Graphic designers, fashion consultants, interior designers, restaurant managers. Others express themselves more privately, outside of work, becoming secretaries, middle-managers, retail salespeople. There are 4/3 career advisors, guidance counsellors and psychologists. Of course, 4/3s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.


    four with five wing


    general description

    Average 4/5 is emotionally heavy. Powerful, passionate feelings and aesthetic appreciations swell within and then get bottled up inside. 4/5s generally avoid expressing their feelings because they feel that no one could possibly understand them. Like 4/3, they feel special and different, but 4/5 is more likely to withdraw into sullen silence than to make a big public scene. 4/5 and 5/4 both have strong feelings which they repress, but because their feelings are stronger than their repression, 4/5s are more aware than 5/4 of their inner emotional state. Consequently, they are more likely to become depressed. There is a kind of delicacy to 4/5 that is not usually present in 4/3.


    balanced and transcendent states

    Balanced 4/5 lightens up. The five-wing's integration to eight adds a kind of solidity and strength to the healthy 4/5, while the integration of four to one provides clear judgment and rationality. Healthy 4/5s begin to escape from the obsessive, dark, inner view, looking more outward into the world. There they find new connections with other people, possibly to their great surprise. They finally begin to discover that they have been loving people all along, although they may not have known it.

    With spiritual growth, the realization that love has been present all along strengthens into an unquenchable thirst for deeper inner connections with an inner source of meaning. These connections are strengthened by loving compassion for other humans. Extremely advanced 4/5 is a gentle, strong, deeply passionate teacher. Keen observations of the subtle states of others provide a miraculous ability to elicit powerful, transforming feelings. They may teach in person, through their writings, or in more subtle ways such as various forms of artistic expression.


    unbalanced and unhealthy states

    Unbalanced 4/5 can move into the extreme withdrawal of depression, then, with still further disintegration, into a sort of dark impulsiveness. Deeply troubled by feelings of utter worthlessness and extreme isolation, unhealthy 4/5 may look for opportunities to perform degrading, menial tasks, rationalizing that such a fate is deserved. Servility and self-abasement provide a kind of barely-adequate, very temporary relief from the constant torment of self-hatred.

    As life becomes less and less tolerable, suicide becomes increasingly likely, and if it happens it may be done in some unusually gruesome way. Extremely dark, horrifying inner imaginings are welcomed and encouraged. The whole world, both inner and outer, is seen as grotesquely diseased and utterly without redeeming qualities. 4/5 Hell is a place of unimaginable ugliness, populated by those deformed, psychotic monsters, the human race. Psychotic 4/5 revels in hopelessness and despair.


    physical appearance


    Some 4/5s place little attention on appearance, beyond a kind of casual style. Black clothing is common, loosely worn and maybe not very well-fitted. By contrast, there are other 4/5s who are careful to dress well whenever possible. Well-dressed 4/5s seem to have a way of looking elegant but understated. Whether or not they dress and groom themselves carefully, average to unbalanced 4/5s often feel they are unattractive in some way.


    callings


    Some 4/5s find work that lets them express their deep feelings while withdrawing from direct contact. Writers, painters, sculptors, philosophers, fabric designers. Others like to make deep contact with a few, carefully selected people. Psychologists, butlers, personal aides. They might overcome the desire to withdraw, coming out as popular musicians or character actors. Often they settle for relatively unglamorous work, living a rich fantasy life instead. There are 4/5 accountants, technical writers, and night clerks. Of course, 4/5s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.

    http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-fo...e-4-wings.html


    ^ they inspired this post.
    Last edited by Aylen; 10-23-2017 at 01:55 AM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  35. #395
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    And everyone is so kind,
    With the lies that they tell themselves,
    'Cause everyone is so blind,
    To the truth that they're ugly inside,
    When the mirror's laughing,
    Time takes over,
    You should know,
    We're rotting away.

    There's no,
    Nothing left for me,
    When all beauty's destroyed,
    There's no,
    Nothing left to see,
    Once all beauty's destroyed.

    And everyone is so torn,
    Between truth and a false veneer,
    Well no one wants to be alone,
    In the wake of their faults and fears,
    If you don't stop scratching,
    Wounds reopen,
    As we slowly start to decay.

    There's no,
    Nothing left for me,
    When all beauty's destroyed,
    There's no,
    Nothing left to see,
    Once all beauty's destroyed.

    Lie for you,
    Die for you,
    Beg for you,
    Bleed for you.

    There's no,
    Nothing left for me,
    When all beauty's destroyed,
    There's no,
    Nothing left to see,
    Once all beauty's destroyed.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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  37. #397
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    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  38. #398
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  39. #399
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    Default Sp/Sx 4w5 shop

    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  40. #400
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