Results 1 to 40 of 53

Thread: INFx types in Socionics and MBTI (split)

Hybrid View

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default INFx types in Socionics and MBTI (split)

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    For balance's sake I'd like to play around with the title a bit.

    IEI seems like a type stuck in the middle between "feeler" and "thinker".
    But if you mix ILI and LII you don't get that middle, you just get an asshole robot who is kinda charming, plotting world domination, too lazy to make it happen and is really, REALLY good at physics. xD

    While ILI is more emotional than LII, they aren't as emotion influenced to make an IEI. I'd simply replace the ILI with EII.
    Because after all, while SO MANY damn IEIs think they're LII (been there, done that xD), just as many EIIs think they're IEI.

    In place of EII, EIE + LII could also work for Fe subtype of IEI. =')
    seeing you come from personalitycafe, and reading your statement about EII thinking they are IEI, i just wanted to say you should be careful mixing MBTI with socionics.

    INFJ cognitive functions might be defined as Ni Fe Ti Se in MBTI and you might think the socionics equivalent is INFp, but if you read some of the descriptions and some more posts about INFjs here, you might see that they still describe the same type in MBTI and socionics

    so INFJ in MBTI terms doesnt necessarily equal INFp in socionics

  2. #2
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by veult View Post
    so INFJ in MBTI terms doesnt necessarily equal INFp in socionics
    That's what mistyped people tell themselves.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    That's what mistyped people tell themselves.
    well this mistype mentality comes more across as some sort of elitism than anything else

    MBTI INFJ is overall also my best fit and the socionics Infj descriptions fit me more than the Infp descriptions

    IJ temperament >> IP temperament

    But i wonder if you have read that stuff or just went directly from MBTI functions to the socionics equivalent, without reading some socionics material first.
    Last edited by veult; 12-17-2014 at 06:45 PM.

  4. #4
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by veult View Post
    well this mistype mentality comes more across as some sort of elitism than anything else
    You must FEEEL that way about me, you can't possibly come from a place of reason, nor do I care to ask before presuming otherwise, it's how you "come across", says the supposed MBTI INFJ...

    MBTI INFJ is overall also my best fit and the socionics Infj descriptions fit me more than the Infp descriptions
    West wanks the IEI, East wanks EII. You wish to be wanked. That's all.

    But i wonder if you have read that stuff or just went directly from MBTI functions to the socionics equivalent, without reading some socionics material first.
    I read everything. And I mean everything I could find online on the socionics transition of INFJ to IEI/INFp and INFP to EII/INFj. It's a perfect fit on both fronts.
    People who say otherwise tend to be MBTI mistypes, since MBTI is much easier to mistype anyway.

    Also look at your punctuation. It's one of the most common ways INFPs give themselves away. I who don't even come from an English speaking country would never be able to leave the mistakes you do. It would just bother me.

    But I can't force you to believe me, or the little signs I see here. It's your own self typing. Do what you want.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    You must FEEEL that way about me, you can't possibly come from a place of reason, nor do I care to ask before presuming otherwise, it's how you "come across", says the supposed MBTI INFJ...


    West wanks the IEI, East wanks EII. You wish to be wanked. That's all.


    I read everything. And I mean everything I could find online on the socionics transition of INFJ to IEI/INFp and INFP to EII/INFj. It's a perfect fit on both fronts.
    People who say otherwise tend to be MBTI mistypes, since MBTI is much easier to mistype anyway.

    Also look at your punctuation. It's one of the most common ways INFPs give themselves away. I who don't even come from an English speaking country would never be able to leave the mistakes you do. It would just bother me.

    But I can't force you to believe me, or the little signs I see here. It's your own self typing. Do what you want.
    MBTI INFP mistyping as MBTI INFJ is a sentiment from personalitycafe, go argue about that MBTI bullshit over there.

    Don't start spreading this kind of stuff here. It is a discussion about the socionics INFp type. Not the MBTI INFJ type.

    You could at least try to back up your statement from a socionics point of view. I want to see where you are coming from.

    As you can see from my location i don't come from an english speaking country, so yeah could be that my punctuation and grammar is not absolutely p-e-r-f-e-ct.

    But again, you just make this nonsensical statement that my punctuation gives my type away. YEAH right couldn't be that i display it openly in my profile. But Again, argue, explain, just try a little bit to back up your half assed statements!

  6. #6
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by veult View Post
    MBTI INFP mistyping as MBTI INFJ is a sentiment from personalitycafe, go argue about that MBTI bullshit over there.

    Don't start spreading this kind of stuff here. It is a discussion about the socionics INFp type. Not the MBTI INFJ type.

    You could at least try to back up your statement from a socionics point of view. I want to see where you are coming from.

    As you can see from my location i don't come from an english speaking country, so yeah could be that my punctuation and grammar is not absolutely p-e-r-f-e-ct.

    But again, you just make this nonsensical statement that my punctuation gives my type away. YEAH right couldn't be that i display it openly in my profile. But Again, argue, explain, just try a little bit to back up your half assed statements!
    The functions match.
    The commonly accepted descriptions overlap. What else do you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by veult View Post
    As you can see from my location i don't come from an english speaking country, so yeah could be that my punctuation and grammar is not absolutely p-e-r-f-e-ct.
    Are telling me you speak English this well and you genuinely don't know to capitalise your "I" when you reffer to yourself? To use a comma when you pause in speech? To put a dot at the end of your sentence and capitalise it's beginning?

    I'm not being a grammar Nazi here, I don't care how you write.
    But INFJs who put lots into written expression and take only partcular things to be perfectionistic about, tend not to do that.

    Again it's not PROOF you're MBTI INFP. It's a hint. But too many hints in here.
    Last edited by lapa83; 12-18-2014 at 10:45 AM.

  7. #7
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    998 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    I read everything. And I mean everything I could find online on the socionics transition of INFJ to IEI/INFp and INFP to EII/INFj. It's a perfect fit on both fronts.
    I agree. When I first stumbled onto socionics I looked into INFj because I, wrongly, assumed that it would be the same as INFJ but it isn't. Ni is base function for INFJ and INFp and both fit me. My sister is INFP in MBTI. INFj in socionics accurately describes her strength and use of functions. I type my sister and myself based on the function description over type description.

    It is obvious to me that my EII sister seems to take issue with my Ni and Fe sometimes. I have taken issue with her Fi and Ne as well. This has led to us discounting each other's abilities in these areas. I am aware she can be very capable in the areas of Ni and Fe but she does not find those functions as important. I think my Ni has irritated her in the past because she wants me to give her something a little more concrete to work with. :/ She often tries to throw a self-help book at me to correct my perception. grrrr, Dr Phil...

    I like this site for it's simple descriptions of functions.

    http://personalityjunkie.com/functio...i-ne-te-fe-se/

    http://personalityjunkie.com/the-infj/

    http://personalityjunkie.com/infp-pe...-type-profile/

    I particularly relate to the explanation of Ni on the site.

    http://personalityjunkie.com/10/intr...-intuition-ni/

    Edit: I have never been a member of personalitycafe. I formed my conclusions based on my own research.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    I found that Enneagramm can play a huge part when you start finding your socionic type.

    MBTI INFPs Enneagramm 4 often type as IEI, because they can relate very much to beta quadra.

    MBTI INFPs Enneagramm 9 often type as EII, they relate more to delta.

    With MBTI INFJs it can also go both ways. I think Ennegram 4 especially the sexual subtype will also relate more to beta and their romance style.

    Also if you look at Williams chart you can see this split in both ways for MBTI INFJs and MBTI INFPs regarding their socionics type.

    I also found this disscussionon the Socionics section on Personalitycafe. It'sa thread about this whole issue between MBTI and socionics.

    Does your MBTI type always have to match it's socionics counterpart?


    Go to the end of the thread and read some posts of the user nichya. She explains very well why she is MBTI INFP Fi Ne but also INFp in socionics.

    She explains in a very detailed manner how she relates so much more to beta quadra and their romance style.

    Some people just fall in this gap between this two systems, which MBTI and socionics just haven't covered yet.

    If you read that stuff you can see that people who make that switch, can have a problem when they try to relate to the description and the disscussions about their type.

    Also regarding functions. Because people claim that Ni is staying Ni, or something like that.

    The type descriptions who break it down to the functions are written in a very ambigous manner.INFJ and INFP could both see themselves in the NiFe description.

    It's all not that clear cut. For me it's just that MBTI INFJ are described as perfectionists. When you read some posts in the INFJ section on personalitycafe they write about how they are practical, wish to establish some deep trust before entering a relationship, are more slow moving regarding romance, have problems with their perfectionism etc.

    Sounds all very INFj to me.
    Last edited by veult; 12-20-2014 at 06:37 AM.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I am not sure of the point of this other than to say maybe absolutely nothing is type related.

  10. #10
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's been a while since we did not have an open cat fight about mistypings.

    *sits down to observe


  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kore View Post
    It's been a while since we did not have an open cat fight about mistypings.

    *sits down to observe
    Wish they'd hurry up, this is like the popcorn waiting for the trailers to end

  12. #12
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Boys don't eat all the popcorn.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was under the impression that typing by dichotomies in MBTI will yield less errors than typing by functions, but comparing the two is comparing apples to oranges, they are the same but they are still different so there's never going to be a 100% correlation.

  14. #14
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    998 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I was under the impression that typing by dichotomies in MBTI will yield less errors than typing by functions, but comparing the two is comparing apples to oranges, they are the same but they are still different so there's never going to be a 100% correlation.
    Hahah I used those too, then narrowed it down to my base function. It all fell into place after that. Good morning Words.

    It's all about that base...

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Hahah I used those too, then narrowed it down to my base function. It all fell into place after that. Good morning Words.

    It's all about that base...
    And treble.

    And scrabble.

  16. #16
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I was under the impression that typing by dichotomies in MBTI will yield less errors than typing by functions, but comparing the two is comparing apples to oranges, they are the same but they are still different so there's never going to be a 100% correlation.
    If you get your type right, the functions should fit well and the letter dychotomies are there only to look pretty. Do NOT type with these.
    They are like a very empty Map Of Tthe World. They can't tell you jack shit and they can't help you get anywhere specific, but they can point you in a general direction of where you should search and give you memorable big names to describe where you are.

  17. #17
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    If you get your type right, the functions should fit well and the letter dychotomies are there only to look pretty. Do NOT type with these.
    They are like a very empty Map Of Tthe World. They can't tell you jack shit and they can't help you get anywhere specific, but they can point you in a general direction of where you should search and give you memorable big names to describe where you are.
    That's not what a lot of Russian socionists say.


  18. #18
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kore View Post
    That's not what a lot of Russian socionists say.
    I was talking with the presumption that MBTI and socionics have same rules applied to them, and now that I think about it I see that socionics has a more sophisticated naming system, but is there any legitimate reason they are claiming this other than just point blank stating it? Is there any source?
    All I have is my experience with typing in the MBTI community and people who type trough letters are wrong at least 80% of the time. Now I've only been here a while, so maybe my experience will change. But do you have any evidence for this claim?

    The worst evil in MBTI are these dychotomy based tests.
    I'll link you a video about it.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    I was talking with the presumption that MBTI and socionics have same rules applied to them, and now that I think about it I see that socionics has a more sophisticated naming system, but is there any legitimate reason they are claiming this other than just point blank stating it? Is there any source?
    All I have is my experience with typing in the MBTI community and people who type trough letters are wrong at least 80% of the time. Now I've only been here a while, so maybe my experience will change. But do you have any evidence for this claim?

    The worst evil in MBTI are these dychotomy based tests.
    I'll link you a video about it.
    Well you are comparing MBTI dichotomies with Socionic dichotomies which are partially correlated.

    You are saying that the functions are the same in MBTI and socionics.

    But you are saying nothing.

    I think you will have to add me to the list of those you troll.

    Cause you're talking shit and you're not even funny.

  20. #20
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    I was talking with the presumption that MBTI and socionics have same rules applied to them, and now that I think about it I see that socionics has a more sophisticated naming system, but is there any legitimate reason they are claiming this other than just point blank stating it? Is there any source?
    All I have is my experience with typing in the MBTI community and people who type trough letters are wrong at least 80% of the time. Now I've only been here a while, so maybe my experience will change. But do you have any evidence for this claim?

    The worst evil in MBTI are these dychotomy based tests.
    I'll link you a video about it.
    Let's just drop MBTI and burry it in dark woods.
    There are plenty of sources, they are in Russian. I am lucky to be able to read it.
    I can even link you the statement of the mighty Reinin where he doubts his own theories.
    Functions in socionics are not exactly the same as in MBTI.
    You cannot approach socionics in the same manner, that's all I have to say here.


  21. #21
    Esaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    While ILI is more emotional than LII, they aren't as emotion influenced to make an IEI.
    My guess is you are preaching MBTI. ILI with Fe PoLR would prefer to avoid and limit expression of emotions and emotionally driven ideas while LII with Fe suggestive enjoy them and go along with them to varying extent.

    This post was finalized before I read other accusations of you. Not that I read the whole altercation.

  22. #22
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    998 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    When I joined this forum I came out swinging... I learned more about socionics from my forum battles, and interaction with various members one on one, than I would have reading every translation of every article on socionics ever written. I tend to skim everything socionics and MBTI but even skimming it I think I have a pretty good grasp on these concepts, including enneagram, as they apply to me. It gets a bit harder when it comes to figuring out the base functions of other people but I am an observer as well so I am constantly making mental notes that I file away until I need them.

    I just want to welcome @lapa83 again and thank her for adding some spice to this forum. I was not finding much to get excited about here lately. Now I got lapa and Hitta's newest thread. Yay me!

    *rides off on her Ni horse"


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  23. #23
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I learned more about socionics from my forum battles, and interaction with various members one on one, than I would have reading every translation of every article on socionics ever written.
    I tend to hoard information, so I spend a lot of time reading, learning, watching, listening.
    Interactions are important part of it but not sufficient to be able to understand.


  24. #24
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    When I joined this forum I came out swinging... I learned more about socionics from my forum battles, and interaction with various members one on one, than I would have reading every translation of every article on socionics ever written. I tend to skim everything socionics and MBTI but even skimming it I think I have a pretty good grasp on these concepts, including enneagram, as they apply to me. It gets a bit harder when it comes to figuring out the base functions of other people but I am an observer as well so I am constantly making mental notes that I file away until I need them.
    I agree. Nothing makes you learn better than trying to teach (shove down someone's throat) what you (think you) know.

    I just want to welcome @lapa83 again and thank her for adding some spice to this forum. I was not finding much to get excited about here lately. Now I got lapa and Hitta's newest thread. Yay me!

    *rides off on her Ni horse"
    What are Betas for if not spice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    ...being the smartass is not the way to get me to take the time to answer your questions or blanket statements.
    I didn't ask you anything.
    And a blanket statement is not something you have to answer dumbass.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    I agree. Nothing makes you learn better than trying to teach (shove down someone's throat) what you (think you) know.



    What are Betas for if not spice?


    I didn't ask you anything.
    And a blanket statement is not something you have to answer dumbass.
    Then ask me nothing and do not quote me with your statements and my world will have refinement.

  26. #26
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    998 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    And a blanket statement is not something you have to answer dumbass.
    He has been one of my greatest sources in understanding socionics on this forum. I won't mention the others right now. I clashed with an SLE when I first joined too...Good times.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    When I joined this forum I came out swinging... I learned more about socionics from my forum battles, and interaction with various members one on one, than I would have reading every translation of every article on socionics ever written. I tend to skim everything socionics and MBTI but even skimming it I think I have a pretty good grasp on these concepts, including enneagram, as they apply to me. It gets a bit harder when it comes to figuring out the base functions of other people but I am an observer as well so I am constantly making mental notes that I file away until I need them.

    I just want to welcome @lapa83 again and thank her for adding some spice to this forum. I was not finding much to get excited about here lately. Now I got lapa and Hitta's newest thread. Yay me!

    *rides off on her Ni horse"

    There's no spice: no original humour, uninteresting disrespect and teenage angst went out fashion.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Sketchy
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 5w6 sp/so/sx
    Posts
    31
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There isn't always a good correspondence between descriptions and functions largely because both (but more of the former) are interpreted differently. In MBTI terms, INTPs likely would correlate to INTj in socionics, based on much of their descriptions. INTps are moodier and more prone to bouts of 'laziness' and inactivity than INTjs, which goes against the "J-like" mantra in the MBTI sphere.

    Likewise, INFPs are seen as flakier than INFJs in MBTI; however, in socionics, INFjs are noted to be more active. PoLRs make conversions even trickier. If one assumes the inferior function of MBTI to correlate to PoLRs, you again, as before, see a big deviation. INTJs in MBTI are noted for their lack of Se--a function which is defined differently in socionics; likewise, INTPs are noted for their lack of Fe.

    So there are a few factors making conversion complicated:
    -Different function definitions (especially w/ Se/Si)
    -PoLR vs. Inferior Functions in MBTI
    -J/j P/p, both pairs that identify qualities and impart their own explanations of manifestations (attributes) of each differently.

    Another issue is the homogeneity of functions in MBTI vs their dynamism in socionics. Te is Te in MBTI, despite whatever type that has Te. So an INTJ has the same Te as an ESTJ or ENTJ, leading most INTJs to believe that it's their introversion that's responsible for the gap in the potency of their Te function. In socionics, this is different. Each type uses Te towards different ends, effectively creating "versions" of the employed functions.

    I'd say conversion is not easy, overall. It is not uncommon for people to say that they had to unlearn one to learn the other. It is also not uncommon to see people who denounce MBTI conversions of their type, often stating that they do not relate to their MBTI "equivalent"

  29. #29
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    For fuck's sake SOMEONE wrote something specific.
    Thank you kind sir. I'll take note of your words as I continue my research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragment View Post
    There isn't always a good correspondence between descriptions and functions largely because both (but more of the former) are interpreted differently. In MBTI terms, INTPs likely would correlate to INTj in socionics, based on much of their descriptions. INTps are moodier and more prone to bouts of 'laziness' and inactivity than INTjs, which goes against the "J-like" mantra in the MBTI sphere.

    Likewise, INFPs are seen as flakier than INFJs in MBTI; however, in socionics, INFjs are noted to be more active.
    All I saw was calm and diligent. Not much activity. That is still said about the IEI instead.

    -Different function definitions (especially w/ Se/Si)
    Please explain.

    -PoLR vs. Inferior Functions in MBTI
    Yes?

    -J/j P/p, both pairs that identify qualities and impart their own explanations of manifestations (attributes) of each differently.
    Explain this especially.

    leading most INTJs to believe that it's their introversion that's responsible for the gap in the potency of their Te function.
    No, this is a common misconception. Te second function is not about potentcy, but about focus and prefference.
    It's not your second function because you'll less able to use it, but because you'll be more likely to use Ni to generate bottom line principles and insights before using Te to collect data and back up your shit.
    Te can be just as strong in INTJ and ENTJ.

    In socionics, this is different. Each type uses Te towards different ends, effectively creating "versions" of the employed functions.
    Same thing is noted in MBTI, only more indirectly and more imprecisely.

    I'd say conversion is not easy, overall. It is not uncommon for people to say that they had to unlearn one to learn the other. It is also not uncommon to see people who denounce MBTI conversions of their type, often stating that they do not relate to their MBTI "equivalent"
    I do relate to a lot of EII description as well as IEI, but the functions (as well as Reinin dychotomies) make it, or break it for me, because I see them both as the only stable part in a bunch of generalizations, both MBTI and Socionics-wise. (Even if the function descriptions are different, I still know I'm a socionics Ni dominant, Fe creative, just like I use NiFe as MBTI INFJ.)

    This is not the issue with socionics, but MBTI it seems. MBTI is so watered down and messed with, descriptions are being ruined and we end up with improper behavior-function relations, so function based typing (MBTI) is a huge gap away from a very specific description based typing, with function definition, alone in and of itself, taking second place (socionics).

  30. #30

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Sketchy
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 5w6 sp/so/sx
    Posts
    31
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    For fuck's sake SOMEONE wrote something specific.
    Thank you kind sir. I'll take note of your words as I continue my research.


    All I saw was calm and diligent. Not much activity. That is still said about the IEI instead.


    Please explain.


    Yes?

    Explain this especially.


    No, this is a common misconception. Te second function is not about potentcy, but about focus and prefference.
    It's not your second function because you'll less able to use it, but because you'll be more likely to use Ni to generate bottom line principles and insights before using Te to collect data and back up your shit.
    Te can be just as strong in INTJ and ENTJ.


    Same thing is noted in MBTI, only more indirectly and more imprecisely.


    I do relate to a lot of EII description as well as IEI, but the functions (as well as Reinin dychotomies) make it, or break it for me, because I see them both as the only stable part in a bunch of generalizations, both MBTI and Socionics-wise. (Even if the function descriptions are different, I still know I'm a socionics Ni dominant, Fe creative, just like I use NiFe as MBTI INFJ.)

    This is not the issue with socionics, but MBTI it seems. MBTI is so watered down and messed with, descriptions are being ruined and we end up with improper behavior-function relations, so function based typing (MBTI) is a huge gap away from a very specific description based typing, with function definition, alone in and of itself, taking second place (socionics).
    ]For fuck's sake SOMEONE wrote something specific.
    Thank you kind sir. I'll take note of your words as I continue my research.
    It's no problem; I enjoy this stuff, but my 2 cents: don't get tooooo far into typology where it overly structures your interactions with people. Not to say these theories have no validity, but there are a lot of people who seem to "lay it on thick." There's an "ISTJ" on PerC who attributes nearly every foible in economics to "feeler logic." Yeah..

    All I saw was calm and diligent. Not much activity. That is still said about the IEI instead.
    It's really hard to say either way, as neither type is really known for activity, especially in comparison with other types.
    It depends on how you construct inactivity. IEIs would certainly not be inactive in the mind and with their emotions; they'd probably be active in these realms.
    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/model_a/

    As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with leading Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events. - See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...h.536XxoXM.dpu
    The idea here is that Ni running rampant can provide such stimulation as to ignore stimulation through action, hence their desire for Se-bases. Furthermore, EII is process oriented. They want to lay out plans. IEI is result oriented; they kind of just want to "get there, already." Also, the Delta Quadra is a bit more "productivity" focused than Betas (Sorry for the lack of quotes; my browser is working funnily with copy/paste)
    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/quadras/

    As to which is more active, it's hard to really nail directly. In general, the delta quadra is known more for work ethic in the traditional sense than levity. But consider this: activity doesn't mean fruitful activity. EIIs are described as having plans that are later disregarded due to perfectionism. Their ideals can be so lofty as to never accomplish much, despite activity.

    Please explain.
    http://understandmyersbriggs.blogspo...functions.html
    This was something I was recently corrected on here. Se is described as more of "experiencing without processing in the moment," in a way, mindfullness. In socionics, this can be Si, as well (refer to a recent post where I was corrected; it should be in my last 4 posts or so). In socionics, Se is the ability to apply pressure. So in essence, socionics Se/Si are convolved together in MBTI. They are more decoupled and delinated in socionics.

    -PoLR vs. Inferior Functions in MBTI Yes?
    It depends on a bit of interpretation: do you link an inferior function to that which is ingored but desired? Then it may relate to soci. Do you link the inferior function to the function that causes the most stress (some MBTI interpretations do this)? Then it differs fom the soci PoLR (IEI have Te PoLR, not Se PoLR).

    -J/j P/p, both pairs that identify qualities and impart their own explanations of manifestations (attributes) of each differently.
    I think you already know this; I may have just worded it poorly:

    J/P work for extroverts in soci/MBTI, I believe. In MBTI, this has to do with whether the person's primary extroverted function makes "judgements" or "percieves." In soci, this gets thrown out the window probably more than anything else. It has to do with rationality and irrationality, both of which are gauged by the base function. For example, if your IEI typing is correct, you are an introverted irrational (IXXp). This comes with a lot more w/ regards to mood, pace, introspection, and general perception of life than J/P in MBTI might indicate.

    leading most INTJs to believe that it's their introversion that's responsible for the gap in the potency of their Te function.
    By potency, I meant how far it adheres to MBTI-interpretations of Cognitive Functions.
    http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm this is lauded on PerC
    If you go through it and check more "Fe"-laden traits, you'll be an ENFJ. If you go with Ni more than Fe, you'll be an INFJ. In soci, they deal more with the variances of Fe. I emphasize more because there are sites like TypeLogic that make attempts to interpret how these functions act in different slots.

    Same thing is noted in MBTI, only more indirectly and more imprecisely.
    Yeah, you can go "without it" in MBTI. In socio, it has to be disambiguated for each type. Personally, I find ignoring these ambiguities an atrocity and not conducive to finding out ones type. The number of "I'm not very productive with work; am I not an INTJ?"-type threads are astounding. In soci, this is explained far better.

    I do relate to a lot of EII description as well as IEI, but the functions (as well as Reinin dychotomies) make it, or break it for me, because I see them both as the only stable part in a bunch of generalizations, both MBTI and Socionics-wise. (Even if the function descriptions are different, I still know I'm a socionics Ni dominant, Fe creative, just like I use NiFe as MBTI INFJ.)
    The dominant function is probably the best to go on. Ni seems pretty much the same in both camps. You may relate to EII because, guess what, IEIs are quite adept at Fi. as it's a demonstrative function.

    You seem fairly intelligent. This theory is to MBTI what calculus is to algerbra. The MBTI is not very resolute. It throws out fidelity for broader appeal. And I'm not an expert, and as such, if there are any disparities, I apologize in advance.

    I literally joined this month and have just been reading links people gave me in chat. Have you thought of coming there?

    TLDR Version:
    This is not the issue with socionics, but MBTI it seems. MBTI is so watered down and messed with, descriptions are being ruined and we end up with improper behavior-function relations, so function based typing (MBTI) is a huge gap away from a very specific description based typing, with function definition, alone in and of itself, taking second place (socionics).
    And it will probably stay that way because:
    --Most people don't speak Russian, and the geniuses that champion the theory write in such a complex way that few with "average" Russian skills can re-interpret it.
    --It takes a lot more thought. It's not that people can't think in this way; it's that big buisness doesn't want to waste time thinking. They want a nice, boxed, easy to administer test.
    --For whatever reason, practical or impractical, many psychologists view this as a moot intellectual endeavor, probably because of the Forer effect and related studies.

  31. #31
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragment View Post
    It's no problem; I enjoy this stuff, but my 2 cents: don't get tooooo far into typology where it overly structures your interactions with people. Not to say these theories have no validity, but there are a lot of people who seem to "lay it on thick." There's an "ISTJ" on PerC who attributes nearly every foible in economics to "feeler logic." Yeah..
    I just want to hug you for all you wrote.


  32. #32
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like how 2 fresh users are redoing the world here

    More blood please!


  33. #33
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    The more you post @lapa83 the more I see that you need to back up your knowledge base
    Not that I am saying you are dumb but you ask to specify (or should I say to chew for you) basics.
    Do not be a lazy ass, read a bit of the theory for your own sake


  34. #34
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kore View Post
    The more you post @lapa83 the more I see that you need to back up your knowledge base
    Not that I am saying you are dumb but you ask to specify (or should I say to chew for you) basics.
    Do not be a lazy ass, read a bit of the theory for your own sake
    Of course I'm not dumb. (At least not right here and for this. I can be dumb as hell.)

    I'm uneducated. There's a difference.
    And I'm asking questions in order to educate myself.

    But how are you noticing that only now?
    I have been asking questions and noting I know socionics in a limited amount since we started.
    The only thing I knew for sure is that veult is MBTI INFP and that there are hordes of those mistyped "INFJ"s claiming to be INFJ and EII in socionics too.
    All I had from the start is noticing of veult's FiTe, MBTI knowledge and having my generalization about transition backed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Stop trying to be a socionics mastermind, have a few laughs and jokes with people, maybe come to the shoutbox, the rest of the stuff will sort itself out.
    But if I don't learn and have things explained to me, from their perspective and relation to socionics, by people in a "science" about people, I'll learn very little.
    If I wanted just jokes and laughs alone I could have gone on Facebook.
    And if I wanted just reading of a textbook, I could have gone on Wikipedia.
    Last edited by lapa83; 12-20-2014 at 07:44 PM.

  35. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @lapa83, what was your question again?

  36. #36
    insider trading lapa83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BiH
    TIM
    IEI; 2w1sp
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    @lapa83, what was your question again?
    Scroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kore View Post
    Nan I noticed it before but I am an adept of leaving benefits of doubt
    That's not giving one the benefit of the doubt. That's being blind to what one is obviously and indisputably writing.

    When a person is uneducated she grabs her ass and starts to learn the shit to have her own opinion instead of waiting till somebody else with chew it all for her.
    It's actually super cool to be able to understand things on your own, try it you will love it since you are a Ti user
    I am doing it. I want to also have people here back their shit up for me to be able to challenge it on logic and consistency basis. That's also Ti.
    Don't send me to cram school. Only idiots think that's the best way to learn and form opinion.

  37. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    Scroll.


    That's not giving one the benefit of the doubt. That's being blind to what one is obviously and indisputably writing.


    I am doing it. I want to also have people here back their shit up for me to be able to challenge it on logic and consistency basis. That's also Ti.
    Don't send me to cram school. Only idiots think that's the best way to learn and form opinion.
    Chill and stop insulting people ffs lol

    You sound like @Phaedrus

  38. #38
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lapa83 View Post
    That's not giving one the benefit of the doubt. That's being blind to what one is obviously and indisputably writing.
    I have indeed that awful blind spot, I tend to see light even in the most vapid and ignorant individuals.

    I am doing it. I want to also have people here back their shit up for me to be able to challenge it on logic and consistency basis. That's also Ti.
    Don't send me to cram school. Only idiots think that's the best way to learn and form opinion.
    No I would suggest to learn somewhere where they would teach you how to ask for explanations properly and how to argument without insulting people
    Because that's not what is associated with a Ti user worthy of the name.
    So I will leave it for now. I like to win only if I have an equal adversary, it’s not fun to show one’s superiority in front of somebody’s ignorance.
    Cheers




  39. #39
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,840
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nan I noticed it before but I am an adept of leaving benefits of doubt
    When a person is uneducated she grabs her ass and starts to learn the shit to have her own opinion instead of waiting till somebody else with chew it all for her.
    It's actually super cool to be able to understand things on your own, try it you will love it since you are a Ti user


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •