importance of the 8th function

[ConcreteButterfly]

I think a person's 8th function is of particular importance, it creates a microcosm of energy which affects not only the individual but anyone nearby,and it interacts with them directly, accumulating information until it dominates that particular area in that context.

For example near a si demonstrative you will experience calmness, they unconsciously accumulate information about your internal states and respond to them so they remain comfortable in your presence. They grow increasingly comfortable the more they physically interact with you, to the point where their internal balance "dominates" the interaction.


se demonstrative draws more attention and activity to themselves than the other person
Fe dem draws emotional energy to themselves In a greater quantity than you
Ne dem draws more potential energy to themselves than you
Ti dem draws explanations to themselves

More later

[Waster]

It's funny; it's an unvalued function but forms an important part of a person world view, but surely that by definition makes it valued?

[Esaman]

It's funny; it's an unvalued function but forms an important part of a person world view, but surely that by definition makes it valued?

No. "Important" as in big part of the subjective world, is not the same as "important" as in held more important and given more weight in decision and opinion making process.

[Iris]

I think a person's 8th function is of particular importance, it creates a microcosm of energy which affects not only the individual but anyone nearby,and it interacts with themdirectly, accumulating information until it dominates that particular area in that context.

For example near a si demonstrative you will experience calmness, they unconsciously accumulate information about your internal states and respond to them so they remain comfortable in your presence. They grow increasingly comfortable the more they physically interact with you, to the point where their internal balance "dominates" the interaction.

se demonstrative draws more attention and activity to themselves than the other person
Fe dem draws emotional energy to themselves In a greater quantity than you
Ne dem draws more potential energy to themselves than you
Ti dem draws explanations to themselves


More later

So if I am sitting with an ILI and he is drawing explanations to himself, I contribute as I can, but as an EIE, Ti is my dual seeking function, so I feel a bit lame if I can't contribute adequately. Is this a correct scenario?

[Waster]

No. "Important" as in big part of the subjective world, is not the same as "important" as in held more important and given more weight in decision and opinion making process.

So basically "valued" in Socionic terminology is not the same as "valued" in general English usage: I will give preference to Te over Ti. Perhaps they should have used a different word, although, I suppose "preference' doesn't have quite the same kick to it.

Clearly though people find value (oh crap) in their demonstrative otherwise they wouldn't display it. I suppose that is what I was getting at.

[ConcreteButterfly]

It's funny; it's an unvalued function but forms an important part of a person world view, but surely that by definition makes it valued?

No. "Important" as in big part of the subjective world, is not the same as "important" as in held more important and given more weight in decision and opinion making process.

So basically "valued" in Socionic terminology is not the same as "valued" in general English usage: I will give preference to Te over Ti. Perhaps they should have used a different word, although, I suppose "preference' doesn't have quite the same kick to it.

Clearly though people find value (oh crap) in their demonstrative otherwise they wouldn't display it. I suppose that is what I was getting at.

it is not valued directly, but a person unconsciously associates it with their hidden agenda which is valued. basically, because the hidden agenda is processed prior to the demonstrative, any changes in the hidden agenda are unconsciously expected to result in changes in the demonstrative. when they do not, a person will create these changes themselves.
for example a change in their level of influence (Se HA) will cause an EIE to change the external harmony (break schedule)

so they do not value the demonstrative so much as feel compelled to establish a link between their hidden agenda and their demonstrative --> the energy has to flow one direction.

[ConcreteButterfly]

So if I am sitting with an ILI and he is drawing explanations to himself, I contribute as I can, but as an EIE, Ti is my dual seeking function, so I feel a bit lame if I can't contribute adequately. Is this a correct scenario?

the ILI -as long as they have a good attitude to you (Fi HA)- will most likely mirror the essence of your thoughts back to you, organizing your thoughts however illogical into a clear structure that you can build upon. this is what Ti demonstrative does, it mirrors the person's argument back to them in a way that compels them to keep going. so you will most likely want to contribute.

however at any time the Ti dem can sort of "pull the rug out" and stop adjusting, preventing the person from going further in their argument, or use the language of the other's thoughts to impose their own opinion thus gaining influence over the other. this happens when the ILI is intelligent and their attitude towards you (or your argument) is going south.

[Iris]

the ILI -as long as they have a good attitude to you (Fi HA)- will most likely mirror the essence of your thoughts back to you, organizing your thoughts however illogical into a clear structure that you can build upon. this is what Ti demonstrative does, it mirrors the person's argument back to them in a way that compels them to keep going. so you will most likely want to contribute.

however at any time the Ti dem can sort of "pull the rug out" and stop adjusting, preventing the person from going further in their argument, or use the language of the other's thoughts to impose their own opinion thus gaining influence over the other. this happens when the ILI is intelligent and their attitude towards you is going south.

This is pretty interesting to me because I have occasional major miscommunications with someone I have tenatively typed ILI. We like each other, but sometimes when we are talking it's like we are speaking different languages.

[ConcreteButterfly]

more about the 8th function:

- hard to suppress
- aids the 2nd function, provides a physical "background" to the more verbal 2nd function
- unvalued, but strong enough to compete with those who have it as a valued and dominant function
- does not need to be consciously developed, info analyzed and responded to without trying
- protects the dual's POLR, demonstrates subtlety which they lack and eventually mimic
- first thing people notice in a new, important situation
- quality of SUGGESTIVE changes the expression of this function
- ignoring function attracts info which is used to adjust the 8th