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Thread: Inordinate ESE hate

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    When people say they hate ESEs, you should ask them about their mother. Forget Victor Hugo, it's basically just "your mom" (except for the times "your mom" is ESI instead.)

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    People hate ESEs because Ni polr. Ni is the holiest ime in socionics. Si is the most demonic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    People hate ESEs because Ni polr. Ni is the holiest ime in socionics. Si is the most demonic.
    Well, Jung was the one who started Ni being the holiest...

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    Despite technically being my conflictor I cannot muster any form of true hatred towards them. I guess this might have something to do with me being directly related to one and a best buddy with her LII husband though so your milage may vary.

    If I had anything I "hate" about them it's how willing they are to fold to external/peer pressure. They're so willing to be other people's doormats if it makes everyone else happy it's just downright infuriating! I mean hell I can go along to get along with the best of em' let me tell ya. I keep my head down and mouth shut despite all the BS that goes on around me at my job because money is money and I sure as hell need it to help me and my family.

    However, like Dave Chapelle told everyone his father told him: "Name your price at the beginning!" There is a line, a circumstance, a price that beyond which you will not-shall not-pay. Once someone asks you (or more likely tries to force you) to do that you bounce. You cancel the contract. You walk out on your shift and dare your boss to replace you. You dare the SOB who is trying to force you to violate your most basic of principles to kill you. If they do that and Mozambique your ass than yay for you for you have likely forced them to really shoot themselves in the foot far as 5th dimensional warfare is concerned.

    You won't get any of that if you just fold for the sake of trying to keep the atmosphere genial and by extension as many as people as happy as possible. Sometimes ya just gotta piss everyone else off. Sometimes it's worth dying upon a hill even if nobody else but you can see the reason why...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    People hate ESEs because Ni polr. Ni is the holiest ime in socionics. Si is the most demonic.
    But Ni ‘types’ aren’t seen as the best or do you think they are? And in real life ESE/LSE/SEI are popular types.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    ESE can be absolutely horrible, false, selfish and two-faced. Dont let the benevolent, social Fe fool you. There is another, uglier side. I've seen enough of ESE at their worst to have any illusions of this type. However, many of them are nice people as long as they're healthy and balanced.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    in practice, no type is hated more than any other outside of typology forums where roleplaying and mistypings abound
    @Tallmo
    ESE and SEI are similar types
    such a damning view of your mirror... hm

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    I've also been on the receiving end of a mean ESE...they can say really mean things!

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    I can barely remember the last 17 years of my relationship with my ESE mother. Even though we spent a fair amount of time with each other. I don’t blame her in the slightest because she lacked education and grew up around abuse- but she ignored the fact I was not the young woman I was supposed to be. She kind of liked me being a bit messy and loser-ish I think. (Hid some of it). I know her and care for her, but the memories are not so fond- not many good 1:1 memories. Watching films together maybe…that’s good but we’d still sometimes argue. One day I decided I’d never argue with her again. Now, I don’t mind so much because I know I can deal with the aftermath better. It’s like they see interaction as something which has to benefit them as much as it benefits you. They treat you according to how you make them feel. Not much reflection. I guess it’s probably different for other ITR. I tried to not judge her for being horrible during arguments. That was something I always knew she didn’t have much control over. But blocking out signs of distress in a person is something I don’t like that ESEs do. They always have their comfort in mind as well as yours. If the distress is something they are worried will make you annoyed at them they won’t go near it.

    In general I like them- I love ESE art especially. I’m not sure I could be close to one because most ESEs seem to have had fairly regular lives and I think they wouldn’t be able to handle anything I told them about my own. I’m sure they could pass on excellent wisdom (one reason I love their art) but I think they’d ultimately say the wrong thing to me or ignore..
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-18-2022 at 06:22 PM.

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    I think SEE and ESE get a lot of hate because they deserve it lol. They have the most potentiel for being assertively narcissistic out of all the types (basically being ESF and often acting with poor reasoning about things), which makes them butt heads with lots of people. And afterwards the SEE/ESE often move on, leaving the people they head-butted to not only wonder why did that happen, but feeling like they got no closure about it either lol. This of course changes as they become more mature, but I get it...

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    @Popcorn and ironically why they end up being fairly wise..they understand how people work because they’ve done the damage themselves before

    have to say you do get some randomly really sweet SEEs, I don’t think they’re mentioned enough on here

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    in practice, no type is hated more than any other outside of typology forums where roleplaying and mistypings abound
    @Tallmo
    ESE and SEI are similar types
    similar in some ways and different in others. But I don't see the connection to this discussion.

    such a damning view of your mirror... hm
    Is it strange? Mirrors have different ways of approaching things, and can get into arguments or prolonged discussions.

    But with ESE it's just a fact that they sometimes can be very nasty. Fe-Ti problems are very easy to spot. Altering between warmth and cold bluntness. They can have very absurd opinions, based on selfishness, and then their "thinking" is adapted to that, so not objective but just following how they feel. And the Fe makes them show an attitude of being sensible and socially relevant, although what the ESE is actually saying might make no sense. Add Se demonstrative, Ni polr, Fi ignoring and reasonably good Ne that can come up with new arguments, and you have a person whom it's very hard to deal with.

    But the healthy ESEs can be great so I'm not saying that all persons of this type are like that.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I think people can take issue with si types because these types don’t tend to feel regretful often- about behaviour or their position in the world. It can seem arrogant..it takes time for them to develop new attitudes. But they are very knowledgable and positive types so people do value them.

    I think one of the reasons I’m not more depressed despite my own problems is because I was brought up by si parents- so I have some of their spirit. I doubt I’d ever get an acceptable apology out of them for not ‘being there’ but at the same time they do sort of realise something went wrong and I know as long as I keep up a relationship with them they will try to make amends in their own way- with optimism and warmth.

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    @Tallmo
    They can have very absurd opinions, based on selfishness, and then their "thinking" is adapted to that, so not objective but just following how they feel.
    Do you mean this like they judge people based on how uncool they are and because of that they won't include them to random events where they are socially influential

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    Quote Originally Posted by two View Post
    @Tallmo

    Do you mean this like they judge people based on how uncool they are and because of that they won't include them to random events where they are socially influential
    I mean coming up with justifications for whatever selfish opinion they might have. That's a sign of weak thinking, it's not objective but serves whatever need the person might have. It's not possible to argue with such a person.

    One example:
    One ESE didn't buy a ticket on the subway, and then she got busted and got a penalty fee. She was very angry and thought it was unfair because 1) she didn't have any money with her, so how could she even buy a ticket, and 2) it was Christmas day, so it's unfair to get busted then. Her arguments about this went on and on, with much passion and trying to convince everyone who badly she had been treated. Her ILE boyfriend was sitting quiet and embarrassed. Finally he just said, "It was your own fault, just drop it now".
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I remember when my ESE room mate told me to clean the flat ahead of a room inspection in our halls. His reasoning was that ‘you don’t care about your work so you have time’. Friendship ended lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    have to say you do get some randomly really sweet SEEs, I don’t think they’re mentioned enough on here
    Man, I think I met one at work that I sort of had a crush on. At least she started off kind of sweet. But she often acted like a little princess and had these long ass nails that I commented about being unpractical and she kind of brushed it off. I guess when women have long nails, it implies they want other people to do things for them, which is kind of a red flag for a guy. I thought she might have been SEI because she was super-friendly and flirty, but I realized she was NOT nice, like she lacked empathy or something for other people. How other people were feeling didn't really matter and she would make really shallows remarks about them at times. I remember she avoided a guy that was frustrated about something and was trying to vent to her and at another time called HR on him for making a joke that used the word "bitch" and I guess she either didn't like it or assumed she was part of the joke (lol). I'm still not sure if she was just a shitty SEI, but maybe she was a shitty SEE (can you feel my butthurt? lol).

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    I don’t know to me ESE aren’t that nasty even when Unhealthy. It’s mainly cause there intentions are clear to me . Sure there is the superficial FE to fit there agenda that can be used in a more or less questionable way but they won’t do it with peoples they consider close everyone is doing that to some extent anyway but when thinking of two faced I think of other types . ESE are so uncompromising and demanding that’s what make them hard to deal with in the first place there intentions attidute toward peoples it’s not hard to guess to me.

    I don’t really find them selfish either . It’s one of the most sacrificial types imo they can become very blind with the peoples they love or when they are in that FE state . The only way I see them being selfish is that they think everything should be about them at times and opinions based on that maybe they are sometimes not willing to accept truth that don’t make them look good but hard to find a type more giving than ESE yes the opinions can be absurd and hard to argue with them cause of the SE ,NE .



    To me what to lookout for with ESE is the NI polr and SE demonstrative that can make them incredibly controlling and paranoid in a way where you can almost not breathe .

    I don’t know maybe it’s cause they are my duals and I find it easier to deal with but I see that ESE will always listen to reason if I put it in the proper way . Not always when I want it but sooner or later they do . There is others types who won’t no matter what and act on motives I can’t understand. I find this really selfish
    Last edited by Too deep; 11-19-2022 at 02:32 PM.

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    Last edited by Bethany; 11-19-2022 at 03:09 PM.

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    i didn 't read the thread, i just want to drop in and say you can determine things about a persons character based on their inclination to use typology as a tribal identification. i think the quadral values in socionics make this a hotbed for it. it's not like i've never gone there, but some people have REAL FUCKIN GUSTO about hating an imaginary projected Other that gets put to good use here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
    Man, I think I met one at work that I sort of had a crush on. At least she started off kind of sweet. But she often acted like a little princess and had these long ass nails that I commented about being unpractical and she kind of brushed it off. I guess when women have long nails, it implies they want other people to do things for them, which is kind of a red flag for a guy. I thought she might have been SEI because she was super-friendly and flirty, but I realized she was NOT nice, like she lacked empathy or something for other people. How other people were feeling didn't really matter and she would make really shallows remarks about them at times. I remember she avoided a guy that was frustrated about something and was trying to vent to her and at another time called HR on him for making a joke that used the word "bitch" and I guess she either didn't like it or assumed she was part of the joke (lol). I'm still not sure if she was just a shitty SEI, but maybe she was a shitty SEE (can you feel my butthurt? lol).
    SEEs are often snobbish towards me..but usually I see them as lower class than me so I don’t care lol. I’m not sure how I’d feel about a super impressive, intellectual or kind SEE. There was a lady I was working with who was quite smart and she seemed to like me but I still sensed she looked down on me, hence me still thinking of her as lower class than me and avoiding her a little. If you can’t sense my integrity then you probably don’t possess much yourself lol they sometimes become less snobbish once they get to know me

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    Quote Originally Posted by youfloweryourfeast View Post
    Yeah, I can understand where your coming from, my mother is also my contrary, and very unhealthy. Living with ones contrary is a very difficult and for ones mental health. For example we could never agree on anything and always fought.
    My ESE ex has been with his contrary for some time. I saw some recent pictures of them at an event and perceived her as not content and collected. I wonder what that contrary relationship lives out like? Can you give me a hint? (Also he is a narcissist so that doesn't bode well for whoever he is with.)



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    Yeah my mum can be so rude :/

    but I like how excited they get about stuff- especially about things, cute things. Like my mum collecting cute Xmas tree decorations. I like how they seem to be extremely moved by things+emotions. Things and people. It’s like they see a link between things and people, that I don’t. Reminds me that you can feel good by appreciating your surroundings and simple connections with people.

    ok and..the most truly bizarre thing about my mum is that she genuinely admires people, particularly women for their beauty. She’s like a more honest SEI that way, or maybe an LII-ne. Everything else I can sort of understand..but this reduction of women to beauty baffles me. Maybe it’s a projection of some insecurity of not feeling admired or something.
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-20-2022 at 08:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    hardly.
    maybe his mirror, supervisee, quasi-identical... etc. irrationality somewhat more likely - he has multiple posts where he describes himself as a spontaneous person, at least
    I percieve SLI... but as you are one, being different subtypes might make you seem more different that you are. Which one are you?
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I percieve SLI... but as you are one, being different subtypes might make you seem more different that you are. Which one are you?
    he's consistently focused on emotional expression, jokes and on people. the quality of and the ability of him to focus on his logical argumentation is low, as when I discussed his type with him. SLI is extremely unlikely - IEI or SEI seems most likely atm

    @Tallmo
    SEI has Fe to a similar degree - all Fe types do; the perception of your relationship to the types should not be very different for SEI - a type like SLE, SLI or IEE might, however, perceive ESE significantly less favourably than SEI; the perception of Fe as ''false and two-faced'' sounds more like how a Te type with hurt feelings would express it. I perceive my mirror positively, if boring. you don't exactly give me SEI-vibes, either, btw. an example of a likely SEI in my view is @welcome - compare her bubbly style with yours.

    >and can get into arguments or prolonged discussions.
    not very common with the mirror. things are understood similarly and there are the same values, so communication is easy and pleasant. relatively minor problems with rationality/irrationality is the usual extent of the problems

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    @Tallmo
    SEI has Fe to a similar degree - all Fe types do;
    The creative function is not the same as the base. The base-suggestive pair can create instabilities and problems in all types. Fe-Ti problems is what you can see in ESE. SEIs problems are related to Si-Ne.

    the perception of your relationship to the types should not be very different for SEI - a type like SLE, SLI or IEE might, however, perceive ESE significantly less favourably than SEI; the perception of Fe as ''false and two-faced'' sounds more like how a Te type with hurt feelings would express it. I perceive my mirror positively, if boring.
    I do perceive my mirror positively too. The chemistry is obvious. I wasn't really talking about my relations to the ESE type as a whole here. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's just that in some individuals some very negative things happen. And I don't think I said that Fe as such is "false and two-faced". I said that some ESEs can be like that. I think it has to do with how well integrated the whole personality is with the functions. Fe on autopilot is unpredictable.

    you don't exactly give me SEI-vibes, either, btw. an example of a likely SEI in my view is @welcome - compare her bubbly style with yours.
    No I don't give any obvious SEI vibes. At least not in this forum. Not all SEIs are "bubbly" all the time. Women perhaps more often.

    >and can get into arguments or prolonged discussions.
    not very common with the mirror. things are understood similarly and there are the same values, so communication is easy and pleasant. relatively minor problems with rationality/irrationality is the usual extent of the problems
    Here are some descriptions of mirror including potential problems: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/mirror.html
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I percieve SLI... but as you are one, being different subtypes might make you seem more different that you are. Which one are you?
    He will never accept my typing even when all the facts support it as it would mean having to confront his own mistyping of himself as SLI when he's in fact a Ti lead I'd suggest he touch grass sometimes and spend less time online on forums for obscure theories. Good for mental health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BraveSailorBoy View Post
    He will never accept my typing even when all the facts support it as it would mean having to confront his own mistyping of himself as SLI when he's in fact a Ti lead I'd suggest he touch grass sometimes and spend less time online on forums for obscure theories. Good for mental health.
    Ah yes, the famous delta ST patronizing. Such a turn on, for some people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    The creative function is not the same as the base. The base-suggestive pair can create instabilities and problems in all types. Fe-Ti problems is what you can see in ESE. SEIs problems are related to Si-Ne.



    I do perceive my mirror positively too. The chemistry is obvious. I wasn't really talking about my relations to the ESE type as a whole here. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's just that in some individuals some very negative things happen. And I don't think I said that Fe as such is "false and two-faced". I said that some ESEs can be like that. I think it has to do with how well integrated the whole personality is with the functions. Fe on autopilot is unpredictable.



    No I don't give any obvious SEI vibes. At least not in this forum. Not all SEIs are "bubbly" all the time. Women perhaps more often.



    Here are some descriptions of mirror including potential problems: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/mirror.html
    A lot of times they are just not thinking about deeper patterns, in themselves, or others. Or they see patterns.. but hope for the best anyway. I don't find all ESE reactive, usually it's the mentally unstable ones anyway. And reactive is a misnomer, it's more like, bitchy. It's just more a shock when Fe Si leads do it because they are normally trying to take care of that space, or at the bare minimum, not conflicting it.

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    All ESEs I know have a tongue that is longer than the Great Wall of China, they gossip a lot and want to know the simplest details of what you did and what you want to do and where you are going etc, then they gossip about you and talk about it to the whole city
    Isn't this reason enough to hate them, for God's sake?
    SEE SEE a LIE LIE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowgirl View Post
    All ESEs I know have a tongue that is longer than the Great Wall of China, they gossip a lot and want to know the simplest details of what you did and what you want to do and where you are going etc, then they gossip about you and talk about it to the whole city
    Isn't this reason enough to hate them, for God's sake?
    The one I know of/am directly related to is anything but I must say. She does not gossip but she is rather oversensitive to the feelings of others. To the point her LII hubby in his interactions with me in the instances she's within earshot tells us both to stop being so offensive.

    I notice it's more from my end and her hubby's lack of correction to my utter lack of but that's kinda how the Quasi-Identical relationship tends to work out. In a conflicting quadra relationship something "bad" ought to happen yet in regard to quasi-identicals it doesn't. Peace and harmony through mutual and total misunderstanding.

    I'm way more insensitive than he is overall yet if you backed us both into a corner we'd come up with a similar way to get out of it (albeit for totally different reasons).

    I don't hate the ESE, I just see them as being far too willing to accommodate and acquiesce. The LII sees me as a wonderfully analytical mind yet is, ultimately, far too narrow in its focus (though they still marvel at what I can deduce in a short amount of time).

    The SEE marvels at the ESE's capacity to placate a room of people of opposed opinions almost without any effort, yet when it comes right down to it someone's gotta just take charge, name names, and spell it all out for everyone in rather stark terms it is the LII and ESE that balk while the likes of me go "hell yeah!" and switch to full on Inquisitor Mode...

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    A lot of times they are just not thinking about deeper patterns, in themselves, or others. Or they see patterns.. but hope for the best anyway.
    Or just some obvious patterns that they don't see. There is a tendency to get into absurd discussions with ESE when they just don't get the point but will keep following their feelings. They can try to push things that are unfair, claiming that this is just common sense and they have the right attitude.

    I don't find all ESE reactive, usually it's the mentally unstable ones anyway.
    Definitely. Or under stress. We are not talking about all ESEs here.

    And reactive is a misnomer, it's more like, bitchy. It's just more a shock when Fe Si leads do it because they are normally trying to take care of that space, or at the bare minimum, not conflicting it.
    Can be. But sometimes it is the inferior function and then it can be unusually cold. Jung said that the Fe types (ExE) can be the coldest ones. They normally value the object, but their Ti is then the opposite: total, blunt disregard of the object.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BraveSailorBoy View Post
    He will never accept my typing even when all the facts support it as it would mean having to confront his own mistyping of himself as SLI when he's in fact a Ti lead I'd suggest he touch grass sometimes and spend less time online on forums for obscure theories. Good for mental health.
    Touch grass, LOL. My SLI husband likes to touch grass with his bare feet. He mows that way, and sometimes hikes.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
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    Why do people assume that sensing types will be more influential or popular than intuitive types? All the things that are done at a really high level socially are intuitive things, not sensing things. Joe Biden might get accused of pervertedly smelling people's hair often, but how politicians' hair smells doesn't matter. The look on their faces doesn't matter. Physical force doesn't even matter for wars where it's all about drone strikes and logistics. The highest levels are all really abstracted. Sensors should be the weirdos, not intuitives.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default A quiz for nifl!

    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    he's consistently focused on emotional expression, jokes and on people. the quality of and the ability of him to focus on his logical argumentation is low, as when I discussed his type with him. SLI is extremely unlikely - IEI or SEI seems most likely atm
    Sailor's suggestion of Ti-lead for you seems a likely possibility, actually. SLI is quite unlikely to suggest to someone a correction of their self-typing, IMO.

    I generally accept another's self-typing all the way until I see a glaring "no". For you I am not seeing a glaring no - though, I have not seen many of your posts. However, the conflict with another SLI over your same typing strongly suggests you are not both the same type. You both know you are not a match. And I have long-observed Sailor as SLI. I know my SLIs well - with Dad, brother, husband, as well as at least one woman friend, as well as other SLIs in my life over time.

    Typing is a passion of mine. It is the kind of mystery-solving that I enjoy. Therefore, I designed this quiz for you! Will you please take it? I can't wait to see what you decide for these questions. Just pick which is more likely your way: "A" or "B".

    1. Is your desk and/or workshop closer to:
    A) Fairly orderly
    B) Disorganized and messy

    2. Which party would you enjoy more? One that has:
    A) Loud general jokes and shared laughter, with entertaining persons present
    B) Quiet smiles and people sharing interesting things about each other

    3. Do you prefer time in groups that
    A) Have a strong shared-identity
    B) Are more splintered and decentralized

    4. Do you prefer:
    A) Analyzing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects
    B) Analyzing alternative and could-it-be scenarios.

    5. Do you enjoy subdued discussions about one person's personal experience, focusing on their own inner feelings?
    A) Not particularly
    B) Yes, I enjoy this much

    6. Which job/position in your field of interest would you prefer?:
    A) An interesting area of administration
    B) Any job that has high flexibility and low accountability

    7. Which way of communicating is more characteristic of you?:
    A) To dialogue
    B) To monologue

    8. When someone is talking, are you more likely to:
    A) Affirm the receipt of information with yeah, mhm, etc.
    B) Listen attentively and silently to their speech, and then return with my own long speech.

    9. About your decision-making:
    A) I plan ahead, and I often make early decisions, which often don't need changing
    B) I tend to wait and see, and make spontaneous decisions, which I often revisit and revise.

    10. Your natural state when approaching tasks:
    A) Readiness: You work best if you are able to start mobilizing in preparation for what you must do. You tend to perform an entire task at once, and to maintain your internal 'readiness' between tasks.
    B) Relaxed: You work best if you relax beforehand, and you mobilize only for the duration necessary. You tend to divide up matters into smaller stages, during which you are mobilized, and you relax between each stage.


    11. Which is way is yours?
    A) I easily go from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized', but not from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed'. External stimuli (like a movie) helps me relax.
    B) I have an easy time going from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed', but not from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized'. External stimuli helps me get mobilized.


    12. Which sentence best represents your attitude towards considering options?:
    A) "I will not get stuck in the process of consideration; it always ends in a decision being made."
    B) "Consideration is very nice, that time during which you still don't have to make a decision. It's even better when it isn't necessary to do anything afterwards."

    13. Which best describes your approach to a work task?:
    A) Sequentially, from the beginning to the end. I get immersed in a process and tend to single-task.
    B) Randomly, seemingly doing them from the end to the beginning. I am detached from processes and I tend to multitask.

    14. When telling or creating a story, which applies best to you?:
    A) My stories tend to contain one main character.
    B) My stories tend to contain multiple characters.


    15. Which statement more likely would come from you?
    A) "I have my own ideas about how things should be done, 'a mind of my own' - but so does everyone else."
    B) "I like find the 'best' or 'correct' way of doing a thing. There usually is an absolute optimum way of doing anything."



    Nifl: I have to say I wrote this with a snap guess at your type and I could be wrong, so it would help me to know if you found answering these questions: Easy, Fairly Easy, or Difficult.


    @BraveSailorBoy - would you take this too, please?

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    ___________________________
    G o d...i s...g i v i n g...u s...o u r...c o u n t r y...b a c k...a n d...N O T H I N G...C A N...S T O P...G O D .

    ...A great event in the world is coming, and the whole world will know that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has acted...
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 11-28-2022 at 10:37 PM.

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    SLI is quite unlikely to suggest to someone a correction of their self-typing, IMO.
    most people of logical types are able and willing to correct logical mistakes, especially in the relevant setting
    only introversion makes this less likely to happen, but LXI are similarly shy and withdrawn as XLI

    However, the conflict with another SLI over your same typing strongly suggests you are not both the same type.
    an even stronger suggestion of our differing types is in our communication style - he seems consistently emotional, centered on people and on experiences related to them. I am logical and somewhat aloof, not good at being charming.

    Sailor's suggestion of Ti-lead for you seems a likely possibility
    when discussing with others, I like to give them the best procedures for finding their own type, and also to provide examples (Te). also, I have a strong distaste for lies and calumny or exaggeration for emotional effect, blunt, rude, hysterical and insulting behavior (devalued Fe). Ti leads would find it more interesting to engage with insults and related hysterics, it activates them more, and they are less practical, too. the strange idea that SLI is somehow a logical type without having the characteristics of one is presumably from lack of experience and bad theory.

    Therefore, I designed this quiz for you! Will you please take it?
    for people who know the theory there isn't much value in taking quizzes like this, since it is easy to consciously and subcosciously skew the answers to the desired or imagined type

    his inability to convincingly argue for his type, coupled with his rude behavior, is unlikely for SLI too. he reacts adversely to arguments against his type in this manner, which can either be explained as Te in superego (facts are a strain to deal with) or non-valued Ne (to describe his motivations, his personality disturbs him). since his behavior is too rude for a Fi type, the Fe types are the most likely ones. and since he seems to mostly stay out of any meaningful conflict, the introverted irrationals are more likely (also his tendency to edit his posts often, some posts where he talked about being spontaneous)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Or just some obvious patterns that they don't see. There is a tendency to get into absurd discussions with ESE when they just don't get the point but will keep following their feelings. They can try to push things that are unfair, claiming that this is just common sense and they have the right attitude.



    Definitely. Or under stress. We are not talking about all ESEs here.



    Can be. But sometimes it is the inferior function and then it can be unusually cold. Jung said that the Fe types (ExE) can be the coldest ones. They normally value the object, but their Ti is then the opposite: total, blunt disregard of the object.
    Do you have some real life people examples? I'm trying to see eye to eye here with you.

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    ESE can be mean assholes, it’s god damn true. It’s usually ‘in the moment’ though, and then they’re back to being nice. An example..I confided in an ESE friend/colleague that a guy was giving me romantic mixed signals at work. She was supportive. She was also his line manager btw. I confided to her later again that he was still doing it. She told me it didn’t mean anything, I should ignore it. A few of us arrange to meet up to go to an event. The night before I confront the horrible guy and he is ruthlessly cruel in his response to me. The ESE is cool with me, even though I am in pieces, her bf has to explain to her that I am hurting. It’s clear the ESE thinks I should have known better- that I should have realised the guy was an idiot sooner. Later I make a complaint about the guy and she admits ‘his behaviour sometimes made her feel uncomfortable too’.

    another time I fell out with an ESE because she and I were arranging a holiday together. I have a brief fall out with our mutual friend who may join us on the holiday. Suddenly I find out they’ve booked the hol without me..

    another example, travelling home after a night out and my sis’s friend/ex starts touching my leg. After i tell the ESE (my sister’s other friend) that he shouldn’t do that and she laughs and says well that’s just how men are. Same girl on another night out is rude when I ask if she’s feeling ok- ‘are you ok?’ she snaps back. She doesn’t like that I made her feel insecure.

    and my mum was typical ESE who if you had an argument with her she would completely turn on you and blow everything you did/said out of proportion, and exaggerate it, repeating things you said, taking them out of context, bringing up stuff from the past. It was often to get a reaction, she wanted you to feel bad. But she just seemed mean. I feel bad for the stress she was in, but I also feel bad for me that she never learnt how to deal with conflict..
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-30-2022 at 11:36 AM.

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    @Bethany do you not feel supervising these ESEs

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    @Bethany do you not feel supervising these ESEs
    yes I’m sure there’s some of that, (ESE may not act quite themselves around me too) but I think IEI perspective is often annoyingly right- we supervise ESE who are generally well-liked. We see everyone’s flaws Mentioned it before but people like ESE because they are regular type of people- very nice but also not shy about being dicks. Soz I am quite reactive myself these days due to long covid so maybe I should watch that lol. Honestly I like ESEs. Taylor Swift and Outlander are my fave music/shows. (ESE art I’m quite sure). I completely relate to their art because it reminds me of how I feel and think about things. We express our feelings differently- I can’t verbalise my feelings as well as ESEs but I’m better at keeping them under control, i think.

    I work with lots of ESEs and they are some of my fave colleagues, but then again i work in a nice place

    i think ESE/IEI can be very interesting friends for each other..Taylor Swift loves IEIs I’ve observed lol
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-30-2022 at 01:36 PM.

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