Type this new acquaintance

[Cerelict]

@Cubozoan, you wrote a response earlier that I liked but didn't have time to respond to. What happened?



I can see that, too, yes.



Awesome, thank you. This is a great segue in to my own personal reactions.

So, obviously some of how he relates to others is to me. I don't think less of him, though, because I don't detect much if any malice. In fact, as you point out, he has paranoia about messing up. That's endearing and makes me want to help him (though he hasn't shown signs of trusting me to know what I'm talking about in that regard). Also, I'm pretty sure I do things that make other people shake their heads at me, too, haha.

How I thus far have felt around him: safe, comfortable, sometimes puzzled, often entertained. His honest perceptions and judgments were sometimes rather hilarious to me (tried not to laugh in his face, though). Once I felt like I had to step in and solve something (directly related to the person who was invading his personal space - it was a weird situation). Sometimes I have felt as if he was waiting for me to choose a direction in terms of what to do / talk about. Since I don't know him, I can't tell if that was habit, a test, or really what he wanted.

Sometimes he'd ask questions that I consider too personal, which would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable but I'd answer anyway to an extent (it's my habit with everybody). If I did raise up a boundary, however, he wouldn't push at it; that was nice, and also refreshing. Sometimes he's assertively done something, which I find pleasant. E.g. once he said "you should come with us" to a dinner thing some people were doing that I was too shy to invite myself to join. (that sounds silly saying it aloud here...)

Sometimes the way he tried to tease me a few times made me uncomfortable, in that I didn't know how to respond. It feels related to how I couldn't latch on to the humor of his funny stories.

In one sense, I'm kind of afraid that my relaxedness with regard to accepting people (despite what some on here might think of me!) plus my own plentitude of mistakes will inspire disgust and he'll push me away as a potential friend. Not to mention my lack of long-term drive. I can totally see myself failing to live up to his high standards of working hard, making practical decisions, being consistent, etc. I like that stuff, but I don't do it all the time.

To me, his honesty is refreshing. I can ask a question and get a straight answer. It's wonderful. Though, of course, I have to be emotionally prepared to accept the answer as is, even if it isn't comfortable. Like many strong qualities, it's a double-edged sword.


So, yeah, feelings. Mostly positive at this point. So far he seems like a worthwhile human to keep around. I'd probably survive just fine locked in a room with him for hours, especially at this point because I find him entertaining. Not sure how he'd feel about that, though.



Awhile back I met a girl who was similarly fascinating to me, but while we're now good friends I've lost the drive to describe her. I ended up typing her EIE. That's not relevant to this discussion, but I felt like saying it.

I ranted into the clouds again.

Basically I think Te-dom is shoddy and deliberately artificial and that's stupid personal bias. Think nothing of it.

[Minde]

LONG UPDATE:


I got a chance to spend more time with this person in a group last evening. I still can't pin his type down, which in itself is perhaps a clue. And also kind of frustrating.

Context: One of my friends' birthday celebrations. This guy is close friends with my friend, basically best buds.

At this point, it'll probably help if I start giving the characters identifiers, so we'll call OP guy OPG and his best friend (my friend) K.

Some back story: I've known K for less than a year, and only really started communicating with him when OPG gave me his number as a part of a logistics coordinating thing. K and I hit it off pretty quickly and have a good rapport. I easily put him in either Alpha or Delta, and he's probably got Ne in the ego block. And probably IJ. So INXj by process of elimination. We have similar interests and similar thought processes, though not exactly the same, obviously.

Anyway, it was K's birthday party and OPG was a co-planner. OPG took on a lot of host mannerisms, making sure everybody was introduced to at least someone and integrated into a conversation, even if he was the one who had to do the conversing. He loves talking, so it didn't seem too much a hardship, lol. He was way more host-like than the introverted K.

He also did a good amount of take-charge-y type things, though he didn't always do a solid follow-through. He did a lot of initiating movement, getting the group going toward a goal. It was kind of like he'd do a push and then let things move as they wanted instead of pushing and then pulling it all into place, if that makes sense.

(K describes him as a loud, happy drunk, fwiw, and he did get mildly tipsy which seemed to only increase the amount and animation of talking.)

It was interesting watching him in a group of people he's known a lot longer than I have. They all had a sort of tolerant, amused attitude toward him, and jokes directed at him involved his competitiveness, tendency toward showing off his physique (he does body-building), and especially his proclivity toward opening his big mouth and burying himself with it. That subject came up a lot, deservedly so, it seems.

Ok, now a couple of anecdotes:

1) At one point, he asked me how my food was. I had been waiting for it for awhile and was at the point where I just needed to eat something, anything decent. So I said, "It's sustaining," which made sense to the majority of the people sitting nearby - it wasn't the best ever, but it was doing its job. It was a more interesting version of "fine." For some reason, he really couldn't get past me using that term - he said all he could think of was hippies and sustainability and living green, and then kept talking about how that would be a terrible yelp review and how would I like it if I asked how he was and he said "my bowels are acting up" or something along those lines.

He didn't joke in an offensive way (and, anyway, everybody at the table was basically on my "side" that it was a good descriptive term) so I wasn't offended or anything. A few minutes later, he interjects into out of the blue, "I'm sorry, [Minde], for teasing you" with what I think might have been mild sincere worry. But now that he's brought it up again he goes back into how that was weird, effectively negating the apology, which amused myself and a couple of others.

2) A couple of months ago, I had texted him a question, one that I like to ask people: "If there was one invention you wish would just be invented already, what would it be?" I had texted K the same thing around the same time, and it led to an interesting discussion (which is the goal). After I sent OPG that, though, I didn't hear from him for 2 months.

Normally, when someone doesn't respond to a text, at all, you figure they're not interested in conversing and just let it go, right? Not having invested myself in him (other than finding him a unique individual), I didn't worry about it and didn't try to bother him further.

Well, for most of last evening, he treated me as fairly equal to everybody else in the group, perhaps with even slightly more attention at times. When he talked with some others about how we were friends, I took the opportunity to tease him about ignoring me for weeks. Which led to some interesting (to me) revelations.

He kept saying how when I had texted him that it had been in the middle of a work emergency / stressful circumstance. He animately said how could he just drop everything and respond to "how are you? how's it going?" texts when all that was going on and he had to deal with it? In the middle of the loud excuse-making, I managed to insert a question about how would it take that much time to say "sorry, I'm busy right now." He didn't really address that, heh, but kept on about "really?! right in the middle of the crisis?!" all dramatic like. I tried to remind him it wasn't a "how are you" but a different question, but he didn't react much to that.

I can understand the trouble of shifting gears and time pressure, and it does add a new piece to his puzzle, because I've seen others who have issues with that as well. But I was still unclear on why he had still so totally frozen up. By now it was obvious that at least he didn't hate me or want nothing more to do with me. More mystery...

(The people around me at the table thought it was a great question and almost fought with each other to answer it for themselves.)

The topic of OPG ignoring me resurfaced a few more times during the evening. Another thing I'm noticing is that he will circle round and round to things on his mind - talking about it, shifting to other topics, then revisiting. And about 80% is expression as opposed to information gathering. One of the ways he processes, I guess.

Later, when he was giving me a ride to my car along with K and K's brother, he suddenly said something like, "You asked a strange question. It was a sort of creative... [mumble]... You're a creative person, right?" At first I didn't realize what he was talking about. "I'm a practical person. If you want to ask me [some detailed question about the stock market], I can do that, and figure it out. But... questions..." He made a confused, stumped look.

"It broke your brain?" I laughed.

"No, not that... it just..." He couldn't seem to describe what exactly he was feeling about it. But it seems something about that type of question threw him off and he couldn't recover.



Which leads me to my current paradox: Something about him sets me very at ease. He's loud and weird and awkward and I don't understand him it feels like half the time, and I'm fairly confident he doesn't understand me (or many people). BUT I very strangely still feel like I can be a lot more openly myself. And openly myself is intuitive, imaginative, expressive, allowing thoughts to flow. Art, basically. BUT those kinds of ways of being are foreign to him and he often either doesn't react or reacts with puzzlement and a little bit of pushback.

One reason I know I feel comfortable is that I feel safe. My gut and observations tell me he's not going to hurt me, ever, unless by accident and if then he'd work to fix it.

In contrast, I met another person, A, last night with whom I had almost instant understanding, at least in the sense that I knew what he was saying/meaning and vice versa. We easily slipped into conversation about code, trends, and somewhat about people. We shared a couple jokes that required between-the-lines communication, which has never been able to happen with OPG. My initial impression of A was Beta NF or ISFp. But despite (or because?) I had that instant understanding, a part of me didn't trust him and I held him at a relational arms length.



Guys, this conundrum is taking up far too much of my time and attention. I never write this much.

[Minde]

Sounds like a sensor obviously. Seems more Ne valuing / alpha/delta. Likely ESXj. I can see LSE.

If you like him, you should try to hang out more. It doesn't sound like he had a good excuse for dodging your texts. Seems you like you two mutually intrigue each other. His on & off teasing as well as your mystery of him. Go for it.

Thanks for the non-quote.

Lol, your advice is the exact opposite of UDP's.

But HOW IS HE NE VALUING IF HE ACTS LIKE A SCARY ALIEN IS TALKING when I do Ne-y stuff? (sorry, I'm feeling weird - might have to do with social energy expenditure + not sleeping, and not eating most of today. I'll stop shouting now.)

I don't "like" like him, either. But intrigued, yes.

Hm, let me put that feeling into another perspective: Over the last few months, I've been creating a friendship with a woman I type as EIE. I have found her similarly interesting in the sense that I don't understand her always, but her insides are sparkly and solid and precious (like gems and gold precious), which is mostly not type related. She's been equally interested in getting to know me (in her own Beta way). Both of us being heterosexual women, it's been very non-awkward. We can focus, be affectionate, ask personal questions, share very personal information, etc. with a minimum of awkwardness and little to no false expectations. And we can count on continuing our friendship indefinitely with whatever level of closeness we want.

My ESE best friend is often fascinating to me, but that's similarly non-awkward. She's also a heterosexual female. I can dig into her psyche as much as I want and nobody takes it as romantic overtures. Granted, I've known her for years, so there isn't a lot of mystery left, but still. She's different enough from me that we still can surprise and enlighten each other.

But this guy is a heterosexual man. And of course immediately it becomes "oh, you like him." Which, ok, I guess this is how romance sometimes goes. But... ermfh... That's not my intent here. And, part of the problem I'm having is that if I pursued my curiosity like I did with my EIE friend he'd probably get all kinds of wrong ideas and expectations would end up a sloppy mess, etc. It could get very messy, and I really don't like hurting - myself or others. (It's happened before...) That's kind of why I'm venting / asking for input here.

And, yeah, no excuse for not replying to my text, lol. Unless he's (as I suspect) not nearly as interested in exploring differences as I am.

[Minde]

You said you're asking for input and also venting. I'm not sure what you're looking for. Is there a specific question you have in mind? Is there anything left to answer that hasn't been answered already?

Deciding on a type for this individual is partially a means to an end and partially a goal in itself. My main question here is "what is his type?" and a related question that I don't mind also discussing is "what are the gears doing beneath the hood of his mind?" because that's the actual aim. So, yes, there are questions left unanswered.

At least he's not a mascot; I hate those things. Mascots are black boxes with no soul and they try to make you do things.

I originally suggested LSI for him, typed out all of my reasons, which you pointed out the reasons it wouldn't work. You've rebutted others as well. Other descriptions of him may lean towards different typings.

Have any pictures for VI? Stalk his FB?

I can PM you his FB page, which appears to be mostly public and has photos and posts.

It seems like you just want to know his type, despite not being romantically interested in him or seeing him that often, simply because your interactions with him every time you meet have been peculiar & fascinating. Is that correct?

Yes, that's accurate.




I get curious - it's a driving part of how I am constructed. TV shows, random scientific principles, how to do random things, minor histories, people all are possible targets. Sometimes I just want to know. I was infatuated with phosphorescence the other week. But once I'm satisfied, my energy toward it fades until I find something/someone else comes along that piques my interest. (Clarification for those who need it: This does NOT mean I just hop, skip, and jump through relationships/friendships; I'm talking about the waxing and waning of a very specific type of energy.)

[Minde]

Thanks for humoring my interest. I'm going to offer contradictions now, but that's a good thing since you've now taken on half of my brain's work. In lieu of a real conversation, my brain argues with itself, which becomes exhausting. And confusing, because sometimes I can't remember what I've already discussed with myself.

He seems pretty clearly ESE by looking at his FB page. All of the exclamation points!!!!! and the Lols at the end of his posts and the excessive cheering up, proud pictures of him in the Superman shirt, always smiling, etc. This is someone who's naturally very in-tuned with influencing the mood. I also think his being ESE could explain the Illusionary relationship you have with him, and why you find it difficult to understand his underlying motives. Illusionary partners often enjoy each other's company and feel relaxed discussing various topics, but they have to make a strenous extra effort if they truly want to understand each other.

ESE, ok. I'll consider it.

One problem I have right off is that he isn't attune to moods of groups, not immediately anyway. For that birthday party, the food took forever to arrive, and some people were getting "hangry" and annoyed. He didn't seem to pick up on that for a long time, and when he did he seemed to feel helpless to raise the mood. Basically all he did was "Oh, this isn't good ... We won't come back here."

I couldn't ever post as much as him. This is one reason I couldn't ever stay long with the ESE self-typing honestly. He posts like every 1-2 days with a 'heyyyy' 'this is whatts'ssss happennininnngggg in my life right now everyone!!!' attitude. I couldn't keep up. I can see Ni PoLR just from his facebook posts. He rarely introspects. Which fits in with his fascination and appreciation of you, who offers valuable insight for him in a non-threatening way.

I don't think he appreciates me like that or even finds me too fascinating. He knows exactly how to get ahold of me, is all extroverted out the wazoo, and yet barely ever says a word to me or initiates anything. Unless, of course, I happen to be one of the people directly in front of him at his best friend's birthday part, which the friend (not him) invited me to. Then he'll interact by finding things to make fun of or telling me I should be doing something. Or talking more about whatever happens to be on his mind, usually hard work and the lack thereof in this society and the way the middle class is in trouble because stock market things (I zoned out when he started speaking in numbers - has to do with AI, though).

As an experiment, this morning I commented a natural response I had to something he posted; it even included a question. If he replies AT ALL to me I'll be surprised.

For FB quantities, I post far more often than he. At least twice as much, I think. In fact, I hold myself back...

"On vacation and back in (his city) tonight. What's up tonight?" --- he's definitely extroverted, happy-go-lucky, go-with-the-flow kind of person. Willing to start a party and BE the party.

Except then he ended up being too tired and going to bed instead. It's an example of that push of energy without solid follow-through that I mentioned before.

And really, it's a process of elimination. An LSI wouldn't be nearly that cheery, an SLE wouldn't be as naive as him. An LSE or any Fi-valuer wouldn't radiate that much smiling and positive energy. I can't see him exhibiting any Ni whatsoever, to even consider being Beta NF. So he's most definitely Alpha. His Fe-leading is STRONG.

A lot of his interpersonal troubles result from the naiveness of ESEs in regards to others feelings ---- Fi-ignoring. His offending his roommate story you said and then leaving and not considering their underlying emotional state, Fi, he ignored. He behaves like the perfect ESE gentleman you mentioned at parties, introducing everyone to someone they know and can talk with so they feel comfortable. Behaving like the perfect host and caregiver.

Could be ESE caregiving - or could be habits from his warm home culture. The East (and South) tends to be more hospitable than the West.

I do agree about the lack of Ni. Which makes me wonder something - I read awhile back that Ni can be a sort of plaything to EII, not to be taken seriously but fun to toss around and dabble in. Play happens when the EII is comfortable and safe. I imagine that could be bad news for XSEs when not done right.

But deep down he lacks introspection and real substance. That's why he has such ill-founded, black & white, horribly repressed weak Ti understandings of systems or people. That's why he makes such boneheaded black & white statements about people. It's the ESE who is underdeveloped.

So to answer your question - what are the gears doing beneath the hood of his mind? I think he receives your Ne as betterment of understanding of his world and philosophical views --- or pretty much he receives this entirely and completely, because he can't produce it himself. But he's more focused on the mood and valuing Fe, that he doesn't use this in a way you would subconsciously hope someone with Te would. You're enraptured by his ability to host well, his strength in various related Si matters, etc., but then not use that in a Te-way.

Lol, no, I don't think he's the best host ever. My ESE best friend, who is an introvert in the popular sense, is a far better hostess. She is far better at lifting the mood and creating a warm, welcoming (yet not overwhelming) atmosphere.

I could write more but it's late and I'm tired honestly. For now, I think him fitting a relatively boneheaded, underdeveloped ESE makes sense with virtually everything you've shared so far in this thread - with the good & the bad. The guy has definite strengths too. I think your being Fe-ignoring yourself made you somewhat oblivious to the copious amounts of Fe he exudes. I can see it clearly from his FB page. It's everywhere lol. Maybe you don't notice the Fe in interactions much, being Fi-leading. But that seems to be his leading function. I am very confident of that.

What do you see as his strengths?

Seriously - if you doubt his ESE or Alphaness, just look at his pictures in the Superman t-shirt or the picture of the M&M in the boxing shorts lol. Alpha sense of humor. The dude is clearly Alpha. I'm like 98% confident of ESE at this point as well.

Silliness is not limited to Alphas.

Do you think you'd get along with him?