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Thread: Differences in Ni-HA for LSI-Se and LSI-Ti (ISTj)

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    It's like a paragraph from the SLE-IEE superego relations. SLE: "I've already got a path, I don't need anyone telling me about the alternatives." IEE: "But this could be. That could be. It could be so, we can do it!". SLE can't really put this information to use. IEEs wonders why their SLE s.o. is so unresponsive and mute to all their Ne suggestions. IEE tries to make her/himself heard. Even schedules a visit to the relationship counselors. This doesn't much fix their communication issues.
    Hm how do you think Ni HA / Ne PoLR is different from this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Both for entertainment and a quest for attainable objectives. I like pursuing unusual ideas and setting odd goals (or odd ways of achieving goals) that would not be thought of, or chosen, by most other people. I like taking crazy ideas and turning them into achievable goals with tangible results. This can make me come across as weird, unrealistic, and/or over-ambitious, but I take great deal of satisfaction when something I set out to do turns out successful.

    I see, well I'm far less nonconventional. I do like ambitious goals tho'. You sound like the typical SLI heh.

  2. #42

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    LSI-Ti are less aware that they even have an agenda, they're more instinctual, and they tend to live in their heads more and prefer to build up their experience first (LSI-ti require more experience, LSI-Se are better at analyzing situations when they come up and they're less assuming), they're more error prone both socially and logically. LSI-Ti, like the EIE-Ni, are less cognitively stable and they desire more control and are a bit more serious and aggressive.

    EIE-Fe tries to quietly stop LSI-Ti from making too many errors, whereas LSI-Se provide comfort and love and loyalty and methods and a framework to the EIE-Ni, and the EIE-Ni usually accepts those, although if they're extremely unstable then they will not. LSI-Ti and EIE-Ni tend to be more instinctive in their actions and more internally emotional, LSI-Se and EIE-Fe are more cerebral.

    IMO, LSI-Ti and EIE-Ni are pretty inelegant and intrusive; I'm usually fine with LSI-Se and EIE-Fe.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolong View Post
    Yeah, this is with all LSIs, and if you ask me it's not subtle. Religion is usually their favorite topic of discussion, and they are totally down to try weird stuff like ouija boards, although they are very receptive to more sophisticated explanations of religious beliefs.
    I'm an LSI-Ti and I hate thinking about religion because 1) it's too confusing too much uncertainty, 2) there is no evidence, and 3) I don't want reminder that I could suffer after I die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    The LSI-Ses I know are total atheists, but they liked hearing others rant about surreal things (e.g. Tarot readings done by ex gfs etc.). This doesn't mean they didn't criticize them...
    I think LSI-Se are more religious than LSI-Ti.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    LSI-Ti are more political and about their role function than LSI-Se and into actually winning, LSI-Ti are more competitive. LSI-Ti have less visually noticeable Ni hidden agenda because 1) they have much weaker and less consistent sensory perception and they're more auditory and much less visual (there are rather few exceptions). they often are limited to or distracted by social norms more than the LSI-Se. LSI-Ti also get stopped more often and lose support because they make their role function (e.g., likes and dislikes) more obvious (see [->] for more on that below), they have stronger preferences and they're not as shrewd at hiding them because they don't read body language as well.

    LSI-Ti work more slowly and are more likely to preserve the existing regime or start a new one. LSI-Ti have less awareness of what their goals actually are and they fluctuate in them a bit more, their thinking and perception is much more muddled than LSI-Se. LSI-Ti is somewhat more about forcing their opinion (but it is not always coherent or beautiful, and is often far from it and more based upon emotions than what's actually true; the LSI-Ti depends on objective structure more from the outside world, partly due to greater need to be liked and partly due to lower creativity and weaker Alpha Ne and Alpha Si and stronger Alpha Ti thinking in general terms rather than specifics more, less quantitative, being less deductive and separation from them... LSI-Ti appear more aristocratic due to Ti being more about regularities and seeing things as less dividable; it's more convenient for them to think in regularities, they're more easily distracted, so they have more difficulty creating systems than from component parts than LSI-Se).

    Examples of LSI-Se goals:
    timothy mcveigh and the ok city bombing
    joseph stalin and his dictatorship.
    david duke without a goal really, it's obvious he's tactical and attention seeking more than power seeking; he's aware that he's already strong and smart enough without structure.
    pat buchanan without serious goal really, it's obvious he's also tactical and attention seeking and wanted to debate more (LSI-Se enjoy debating more than LSI-Ti do).
    fred phelps, i question whether he really hated them, he was kind of attention seeking.

    Examples of LSI-Ti who had well-known goals:
    Hillary Clinton
    Eamon De Valera
    [->]Robert Mugabe
    Mike Pence
    Michael Jordan
    Vladimir Putin
    Inspector Javert
    [->]PW Botha
    [->] James P. Wickstrom
    [->] Judge Claude Frollo from the 1996 Disney movie
    [->] Dick Cheney
    [->] Michelle Bachmann
    [-> from above about role function] Those men and Michelle Bachmann were totally subjective and hated or loved people, their actions were more based upon their emotions than reflection and facts/logic and James P. Wickstrom was exceptionally inarticulate.

    Ti subtype is rarely So-last and somewhat less attention seeking and more based on normal communication styles when they're working with people, although I am an So-last LSI-Ti, attention seeking (before I was even aware of it, Fe was totally unconscious for me and very fickle up until I was younger, Si seemed more conscious for me and although Vera Stratiyevskaya's ISTj description article describes more outgoing western LSI-Se better than LSI-Ti, how she described Si and pleasure and pain willingness to give pain or attempt to give pleasure for pain i later thought was bad, felt sorry for, was inseparable from my moods; it often came out totally instinctually through physical aggression or satisfaction, sexual or otherwise, some ILE-Ti and SLE-Ti lose control like that too; it's more common in LSI-Se than LSI-Ti though.. in comparison to ILE and LSI especially LSI, she makes ESI sound way more cerebral and restrained and less driven about what they want than they actually are when it comes to Si though; she's really not very trusting of LSI's intellect from all that she wrote about them, she makes them sound almost as instinctive and emotional as she makes them sound logical, which is kind of true for the Ti subtype, but she kind of did a disservice by not mentioning that LSI and ESI vary way more from one another more than say ILE-Ti do from each other... with LSI and ESI, other systems are definitely useful both for themselves and for others to understand them... you really need as many as possible to paint an accurate picture of an LSI and ESI.. one reason is Ij sensors, especially with strong E4 and E5 traits like I have, care about and study styles, use their will and observing just about everywhere to do something different and elegant more than all other types), and I've usually tried to make my own communication style, as Mike Pence polished his own communication style. Hillary Clinton was a narcissistic, unobservant E3 and quite satisfied with her own awful sounds and looks, so she came across, at least to me, as totally unoriginal and unable to research for herself or look where everyone else wasn't. I think that has a lot to do with why she gets mistyped as LSE. As for doctor Phil, I don't understand how anyone could mistype him as LSE, he's a blatant LSI-Ti.

    To summarize why Ni Hidden Agenda is less observable in Ti subtype: Ti subtype is more emotional, learns much more slowly, processes much less of their surroundings and more slowly, has more memory problems, are worse at analysis (they have to acquire knowledge more), are rougher looking and sounding (voices and choice of words), slower to understand, and more reactive to perceived insults, so people are less likely to want to answer their questions or help them out, and so compared to the Se subtype they get a later start of doing anything that's highly visible unless they're born into a system that they'll rise to the top of. That's why Ni Hidden Agenda is less visually observable in them.
    Last edited by Disturbed; 12-08-2021 at 02:49 AM.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Ok serious answer: in my experience LSI-Ti is a bit more more intellectual and abstract. They like working with theories, they are extremely rigorous and can assess progression of events when in a position of responsibility ..it looks like Ni is a bit *more consciously* valued. Several things in conversations center on "Ni topics": what could happen, what past experiences could teach people, what people should do to prevent this or that, patterns one could see etc. They also have more internal awareness (possibly due to a Ti-Ni loop...?). However I suppose they are still not as confident about these things as a Ni type would be -- but the focus on something beyond the stuff or tasks at hand is definitely visible in my opinion.

    The LSI-Ses I know are mainly about stubborn ingrained beliefs supported aggressively without much consideration of future events or some "meta-perspective". They looked pretty muched satisfied with living in the present moment and imo a bit more selfishly holding on to their hitherto convictions ...

    Ni HA in LSI-Ti can also manifest itself as a subtle attraction to metaphysical or less easily explainable things ...a love for enigmas or puzzles that could be pierced through via Ti.

    Dunno, ime LSI-Se just seemed to be more about getting their way out of most situations. So maybe this has to do with Ni HA, not only with more value placed on Se.
    No, LSI-Ti don't always like working with theories; in fact, I hate working with theory, have been highly critical of other Ti valuers for thinking they were hot shit for philosophy (I used to think James Madison was dumb because of it) and for their religious beliefs, and I've been criticized by users on here for eschewing socionics theory and going with my own observations; I'm aware that I wouldn't understand theory. And I've never had the internal awareness that I was logical that LSI-Se are more likely to have; I thought I was an ESI for the longest time. My LSI-Ti mom and her mom and my LSI-Ti older brother are always focused on the tasks at hand. They worried about consequences, but they weren't intellectuals, they always did hands-on tasks and worked with people directly. My LSI-Ti older brother was always like "what's the point?" (whether in regard to speculating about things or even having a large vocabulary), meaning that he was interested into going into business and making money and making himself better off materially--and he did compared to the vast majority of people. My LSI-Ti mother was always like "that's water under the bridge" when someone brings up something from the past. Every once in a while, she'll do something big about the future, but she's usually focused on what's going to happen in the current day. My LSI-Ti older brother doesn't even plan (my mom often plans for short term things but often improvises) and not doing so really, really upsets his EIE-Ni wife. He just decides what he's going to do with the people around him and what work he's going to do and that's that. He has goals for sure, but he usually does it by working and accumulating resources and then deciding to use what he's accumulated so that he can accumulate more resources. He totally tries to work his way up the ladder, taking and using and saving what he needs along the way... he makes decisions super quickly, and the fact that he doesn't plan really upsets his wife.

    Most LSI-Se are more intellectual and abstract than most LSI-Ti; e.g. LSI-Se Pat Buchanan was always talking about the future and he was far more intellectual and abstract than LSI-Ti Hillary Clinton... Hillary Clinton didn't even work with theories. Christopher Langan was the Sensory subtype and he was intellectual and abstract and talks about the future all the time. And LSI-Se are better at anticipating peoples' behavior. I know of so many LSI-Se who are intellectual and abstract and having so many future dreams. If anything, it's the Ti subtype that is more practical and impulsive and concerned with power dynamics and what people are doing and less able to follow religion, principles, concepts.

    Thank you. Sorry.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


  5. #45
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    Some of them are heavy into theory but others not so much. It’s highly dependent on the interests to be honest. A lot of them will have a philosophical bent with a Ni spin, but some will be more action-based in the real world.
    Last edited by EIE H; 09-09-2022 at 03:23 PM.

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