Never thought about enneagram for them but I like them.Originally Posted by silke
Never thought about enneagram for them but I like them.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I think an so/sx 9.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I came out as a 9w1 sp/sx/so on an enneagram test. The description fits somewhat, I'm not really the type to go out looking for confrontations and fights. I just like to be chill, think about random things, not have to put up with cocky people who think everything in life must be a competition. For all of the people here who think 9s are lonely cowards, etc., you're just projecting your own shadow. Being a 9 doesn't mean you have an inability to stand up for yourself, just that you'd prefer a harmonious environment over one of competition and strife.
being lonely and/or a coward isn't something often attributed to E9, at least not that i've noticed. really loneliness and cowardice go beyond enneatypes. the type most concerned with cowardice though might be a 6, or a fear type. this wouldn't mean these types actually *are* cowardly, but are simply more concerned with it.
i actually do struggle with standing up for myself and i can associate this to E9, because this type is out of touch with its "instinctive center" and it misapplies anger. i generally freeze up in conflict situations or potentially violent/dangerous situations. once i get past my freeze, i start thinking about the best way to get out of it. an emotion like anger doesn't seem to arise in this process (it's more i have to get over fear so i can start thinking and i can't seem to control how long i'm frozen). anger is delayed, and only after will i feel really pissed off (when it's too late to use my anger). basically i don't know how to channel anger effectively, and it always shows up at the wrong time. it's probably for the best though, because if i get really mad i might not be able to control it well, anyway.
richard parker is "myself" but through loving myself i can love all others.
Last edited by marooned; 09-19-2015 at 09:11 PM.
I got this from a 972 on FB.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
The inner landscape of the Nine resembles someone riding a bicycle on a beautiful day, enjoying everything about the flow of the experience. The whole picture, the entire situation, is what is pleasant and identified with rather than any particular part. The inner world of Nines is this experience of effortless oneness: their sense of self comes from being at one with their experience. Naturally, they would like to preserve the quality of oneness with the environment as much as possible.
Their receptive orientation to life gives Nines so much deep satisfaction that they see no reason to question it or to want to change anything essential about it. Because Nines develop psychologically this way, we should not fault them if their view of life is open and optimistic. But we may fault Nines when they refuse to see that life, while being sweet, also has difficulties which must be dealt with. Their refusal to fix the tire when it goes flat, so to speak, is symbolic of their problem. They would rather ignore whatever is wrong so that the tranquillity of their ride will not be disturbed.
- See more at: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/t....rins6V6X.dpufStuff like this is how I know 9 is tertiary for me.Only the healthiest Nines achieve an awareness of themselves as distinct persons who can actively choose what they need and want. Healthy Nines know how to take direct positive actions for themselves. By contrast, average Nines have a relatively passive orientation to life. They still have substantial vitality and willpower, but their willpower is used to deflect others, to resist, to fend off reality. Average Nines use most of their energy to maintain and defend two boundaries against the environment. One is against the outer environment: Nines do not want their inner stability to be affected or influenced by other people. The second is against aspects of their inner environment: this can include feelings, memories, thoughts or sensations which would be jarring or upsetting, thus ruining their balance and harmony. These boundaries do protect the Nine’s inner world, but they do so at a high price. What they do not see is that they cannot really contribute to others, or even love them, if they do not develop themselves as persons, and that real development requires risking discomfort, questioning or even releasing one’s inner “balance,” and sometimes facing truths which are unpleasant and uncomfortable. But this does not matter to them since, for average Nines, personal growth, individuality, and self-determination are not values whereas “stability,” peace, and comfort are.
- See more at: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/t....rins6V6X.dpuf
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
hah. i don't relate to most of that myself. i think helen palmer is my favorite on nines, and reading her stuff was how i started looking seriously at nine for myself.
mainly i see it for myself as the fairly simple mechanism of not being able to set priorities in my life and stick to them, as well as being an escapist from external reality to some extent. so attention for a nine often works such that whenever i probably should be working on some real world problem like cleaning my apt, or job hunting, or doing my laundry, or dealing with finances, getting enough sleep, etc. my attention is suddenly grabbed away by something far more interesting which i then immerse myself in to the detriment of my life and ability to function. if i identify things i need to work on, somehow i can never maintain attention on any of them. so it's this experience of my attention being always on the wrong thing, which is actually really painful and unpleasant (a feeling of being stuck in inertia) rather than the wonderful life of peace nine descriptions like to give.
i'm not likely to turn into a person who can maintain internal peace by denying turmoil... my inner experience is full of turmoil - it's just i can't seem to make myself do anything about it. as long i have this problem, i'll identify with nine. that said i can escape situations i dislike by turning my attention inward to internal fantasy (which is much like what you quoted, in essence, even though the way it's written really doesn't ring true to me). this is a coping mechanism i learned as a child because my home life was fairly bad (i had an overbearing father who i was afraid of) and there was nothing i could do about it. as an adult though, this coping mechanism keeps me stuck in bad situations because i can't seem to gather up the attention and drive to change them. so it makes sense that anger isn't "working" correctly, because anger is something that provides the impetus to change something rather than just being moved along as though everything is out of my control.
i also learned through my childhood that my needs weren't important (presenting anything i needed might anger my dad, so i learned to suffer in silence). eventually i kind of learned how not to notice my needs at all, rather than suffer through something i could do nothing to help. emotionally, i can be rather masochistic and have a bit of a victim mentality, usually seeing myself enslaved by others and their oppressive demands. this is why i prefer to avoid people. i suppose the E5 piece doesn't help here either as i usually feel i have very limited internal resources (energy?) and i see others as trying to sap away what little i have. interaction with others is usually incredibly draining. (eta: although in contrast to this pattern that seemed to win out in the case of my dad, and now in my life... i was fairly emotionally demanding with my mom and sister who i was safe with. when i'm around them, i'm still that way... but it seems in the rest of my life, it's almost like i associate the entire external world with my dad/that relationship - well and maybe part of the fear of demands part comes actually in part from my mom too.)
another thing i related to was a video about types and counseling by the fauvres. the tendency noticed with nine is that in counseling a lot of insight will emerge as well as ideas about what to do about their situation, but when you meet with the nine in the next session you find nothing has actually been *done* between sessions. it's as though the nine only holds these ideas conceptually and can't actually get them into action (which applies to being out of touch with the instinctive center - the ability to act goes out the window). what happens between sessions is the nine will in some sense "forget" any plan of action (although it may not have felt like a plan to the nine to begin with), or will have consistently remembered it, but procrastinated doing anything. again, though, the insight returns along with new ideas about what to do - which once again don't get implemented. and the pattern goes on. this can be somewhat befuddling to a counselor: as in, if you understand, why don't you *do* something about it. (personally i think in my case, low dopamine might *really* have something to do with this issue.)
lastly, i relate to the merging aspect of the nine, especially in romantic relationships. the way i come to understand something often also involves merging with that concept, feeling, idea, etc. i explore things through sort of empathetically embracing them in my mind.
i didn't always have this host of problems, most of them began emerging with increased lifestyle pressures which i wasn't able to cope with well. and i've always had limited energy/stamina, which is why it's important for me to be strategic. but even when healthier i think my attention followed a similar pattern of seeking intense stimulation (whether emotional or intellectual or an activity) over taking necessary actions (doing work). and so, i really am quite lazy.
also, as health declines, some of the "stimulation seeking" can devolve into its lower energy-level manifestation of "zoning out," which helps to reveal the mechanism for what it really is. zoning out is incredibly awful in feeling... like being a vegetable... it's like death where you're so stuck in inertia that you can't get out. but if one is going to that rather than acting on their priorities, that is significant, imo. basically i think that nines learned deep down that their needs and priorities are not important, and so a pattern was learned to avoid addressing them or connecting to them properly. it's a pattern that arises for some out of certain childhood situations, and then is rehearsed on a deep inner layer of consciousness over and over again. what a really unhealthy nine would seek, would be oblivion.
(fantasizing too can devolve into dissociation and depersonalization - a break from reality entirely. this reveals that the inner fantasy life is in fact escapism, which keeps one from doing something to fix their life.)
Last edited by marooned; 09-22-2015 at 06:31 PM.
Albert Enstein - 9w1 (so/sp Alpha)
There are times when you look up into the sky and are convinced that there really is something more than love that matters. Things are falling apart, all the old beliefs and dreams are dying, and you can’t find any sort of reference point around which you can organize it all. What you were so convinced of only days ago has lost its meaning. You are being reassembled from the inside by the unrelenting activity of love, but in ways the mind will never understand.
Falling apart and then coming back together. Only to fall apart yet again. While it may be tempting to conclude that grace has abandoned you, look closer. For the partial must always die in order for wholeness to be revealed. While you may have a preference for flow, for clarity, and for certainty, the beloved does not share this bias, and will use whatever she must to reach you, and to unleash her allies of transmutation within.
If you remain too identified with the ‘falling apart,’ you drop into the trance of disembodiment. You lose contact with the gooey, muddy earth and with the radiance of immediate experience, becoming mistattuned to the wisdom buried inside somatic pathways. You forget how intelligent and creative it is inside you, and that you are never, ever in need of fixing. You forget that the darkness, when provided sanctuary, is brighter than a thousand suns.
But if you remain too identified with ‘holding it all together,’ you disconnect from your essence-vulnerability, from untamed aliveness and spontaneity, and you turn from the wild reality that your heart could break at any moment. You forget that it is through your brokenness that you will emerge, and that the cracks in your heart are the portals through which the poetry of your life will flow. The aliveness you are longing for will only be found in the risk of unbearable intimacy with all things.
Right in the middle of falling apart and holding it together is the secret place, the alchemical holding field of the dark and the light. The creativity here is outrageous and is the end of your world as you have come to know it. But yet here you are, called to organize your life around love, and to give your heart to others – to do whatever you can to help beings everywhere, to know how rare and sacred it is here. Somehow, you have returned home.
Matt Licata
947
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
David Blaine - 9w8 sp/sx
Doris Kearns Goodwin - 9w1 sp/so
Last edited by silke; 08-04-2017 at 05:10 PM.
I'm not sure I understand this thread but I have a question.
I'm inclined to identify most with 9 but I have read conflicting information about their core fear and motivations.
Ichazo and Naranjo's descriptions seem to focus on an existential emptiness that results in "indolence" and self-disinterest. A negation of volition that results in detachment from the physical world. Identity becomes No Thing and the self is too lost to care.
Maitri and Riso seem to suggest that 9 is motivated by to seek harmony and security, typically through compressing themselves in order facilitate attachment to others. This is typically defined by the desire to see it remedied via merging.
If my understanding is correct, which position do you give more weight to and why?
Both aspects are connected with each other.
The 9 achieves a level of (superficial) peace/harmony with their environment due to their lack of "sense of self".
Technically, the Social subtype of 9 is the most fitted to Riso's description of 9s seeking harmony and whatnot. The merging aspect fits best to the Sexual 9, who desires close merging with a partner.
Type 9 is ultimately "selfless", and hence (IMO) the most altruistic type in the Enneagram. Not saying all 9s will be saints, but the "self-forgetting" nature of 9 is unrivaled by the other types.
Type 2 may seem self-sacrificing as well, but their motivations are pride based, not so with 9.
Due to this "self-forgetting", the 9 can be very unaware of their own needs or "true" nature. In their everyday life, they not only have forgotten their psychological needs, but they also forget to think about this "loss". There are other things more important to them.
For the Social 9, it is more important to be pleasant in their interactions with others and create harmony, for the Sexual 9 it is more important to reach blissful merging with another partner (doing so they usually take on the needs of their partner and try to fulfill them exactly), for the Self-preservation 9 it is more important to fulfill their immediate needs like food and drink, and care for their security and well-being.
Because of this "self-forgetting", many 9s may see themselves as being like what other people tell them they are (usually the case for Social 9s), or what their loved ones say they are (usually the case for Sexual 9), etc.
This is why it is so common for 9s to mistype themselves. IME, many 9s mistype as 3s. Their growth point is more enticing and admirable to society and/or their own ideals, so they identify more closely with 3 often times. Or they mistype as 6 when they feel more anxious. At last, some Sexual 9s can mistype as 4, because both can have similarly intense emotions.
Thank you, the explanation of the instinctual influences clarified a lot for me.
"Being an Indigo Child - Ultra Spiritual Life episode" AwakenWithJP
Last edited by yeves; 06-27-2016 at 04:13 AM.
Tripswitch - Roll Your Own
David Fauvre said that e9 is the womb/tomb experience. 9 is the actual beginning of the enneagram, not 1. 9 is on top of the circle, its starting point and closure. 9 is the baby and the corpse, or the reincarnating soul. In between, there are the stages of life. Albeit heavily gendered (terms could be used interchangeably), his analogy does have a point - it goes like this:
1 - adopting paternal morals: right & wrong
2 - adopting maternal protection: care & love
3 - a son's ambition in puberty, wanting to be of worth
4 - a daughter's differentiation in puberty, wanting to be unique
5 - becoming the observer of a peer group
6 - blending in
7 - becoming a paragon of the group
8 - revolt & independence, adulthood.
That is so beautiful.
An interesting thing that I noticed: Many Gurus have a 6 in either their main- or triype. 6 integrates 9. And 9 is basically a ticket to nirvana when you reach enlightenment before actually dying. Meanwhile, the Dalai Lama as a 9 was already a perfect teacher. His task is the 3 integration (career, being in the public eye, being productive), which he seems to succeed in.
9w8
GiGi D'Agostino is likely syn-chain e9.
Gigi a 9? How so?
I'd say a 7w8.
"Lets suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and you would naturally as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure, you see, and after several nights you would say, well that was pretty great, but now lets have a surprise, lets have a dream which isn't under control. Well something is going to happen to me that i don't know what it's gonna be. Then you would get more and more adventurous, and you would make further and further out gambles as to what you would dream, and finally you would dream where you are now.
If you awaken from this illusion and you understand black implies white, self implies other, life implies death, you can feel yourself, not as a stranger in the world, not as something here on probation, not as something that has arrived here by fluke, but you can begin to feel your own existence as absolutely fundamental. What you are basically deep deep down far far in is simply the fabric and structure of existence itself"
Nujabes 9 spsx
a ton of musicians are 9s
love 9s, they calm me
Last edited by maniac; 10-29-2016 at 07:54 AM.
Looks too weird and unsettling for a boring af "positive outlook" type. I would put it in E5. I don't even see merging represented here so much as splitting so maybe E6 or one of the image types would work as well.
I was getting at multiple personality disorder which is likely when a 9 is very unhealthy.
Level 9: They finally become severely disoriented and catatonic, abandoning themselves, turning into shattered shells. Multiple personalities possible. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid and Dependent personality disorders.
@Ghost OK. I also thought schizoid personality disorder was unhealthy 4-5-1. 4-6-9 tends to correlate with dependent but it doesn't have to be 9 first from what I've seen. I haven't actually found any correlations between E9 (or any other center) and multiple personalities but I don't have statistics or any sort of supposed internal dynamic on that so no point arguing that one. Withdrawn types do tend to dissociate more, which is the mechanism for that (as well as secondary psychopathy and a lot of other quite different looking things) so probably any of 4, 5, or 9 could do that easy. What I would really associate with E9 regardless of any other factors is avoidance or at least shyness. 4-5-9 tends to be pretty strongly avoidant at low health levels at least, but in that case, again, the 9 doesn't have to be first.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
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