question for sp-1st or 2nd people

[Kill4Me]

Is avoiding risk a necessary part of sp? Because I take a lot.

no but sp-first risk-taking is risk for self-preservation's sake...

How about the overriding of passions and ideals by force of serious pragmatic concerns?

doesn't get any more sp than that....

[Kill4Me]

Best as I can figure:

I want to be close to another person, but it doesn't happen. For instance, in elementary school, I kept wanting a bff, the kind I read about in books. But making that happen is like doing the "taco tongue' thing most people can do. It just doesn't happen. I did social things and had friends, but no bff.

This might be related to sx-last or unrelated to enneagram; what do you think?

sx-lasts don't get obsessed with/hooked into others the way that sx-firsts can...that member Nicole was 'sx/sp-come-off-the-track', for example.

[lemontrees]

I am sp first and I have this realm of personal space that I have secured to keep all of the sx and sos out

why is it important to you?

[Skepsis]

why is it important to you?

I do not know why. I just naturally resist if I feel intruded upon. I try to act as if it's no big deal, but it is, unless I'm close to the person. Then, I really don't mind as much.

[darya]

Best as I can figure:

I want to be close to another person, but it doesn't happen. For instance, in elementary school, I kept wanting a bff, the kind I read about in books. But making that happen is like doing the "taco tongue' thing most people can do. It just doesn't happen. I did social things and had friends, but no bff.

This might be related to sx-last or unrelated to enneagram; what do you think?

I have an LSE sx-last friend and she has somehow similar problems (although she's an extreme case). She's friends with many girls and very popular and likable (she never fights with any girls and they all adore her, because she isn't catty and competitive about sx stuff - also because she's really fun to be around ofc lol), but she never had a " ride or die bestie" in that girly way - she's friends with all people almost the same, up to a certain point, but she can't get past that intimacy stage, where you really connect with a friend and become "one". All her relationships are kinda sterile - you can laugh together, but you can't really hug her all of the sudden or hold her hand, or really open up to her - she totally frizzes. She only gives you lots of hugs when drunk It's like there's an invisible intimacy wall around her, guarding her. Lots of it certainly has to do to with her being E3, but her being sx last at the same time also makes for an extremely inaccessible combo. I would think that with E1 it would be somehow similar.

She got her first bf after college and it's funny, cause he's really a catch (extremely smart and attractive) and you would think she would appreciate him a bit more, and be really anxious about losing him, since she has such problems connecting with anyone. The guy was head over heels with her after a day, and then she was deciding if she likes him for the next 5 months (while spending every minute together). In her own words it took her 5 months to "except him in her heart and get used to him" They were together for a month when she was complaining to me how it bothers her how he breathes in her neck while sleeping lol.

And now, after 2 years, they have one of the best relationships out of all people I know - they're really happy and together 24/7. But still, when I talk to her and we talk about some negative scenarios that can come up in life, she cold-bloodidly says that she would definitely leave him and delete all contacts immediately if he would cheat and that she would also leave if he would become disabled (she even said that in a joking matter, like "oops, sorry, i won't waste my life in that case" ) To me it's unfathomable to even think in such rational terms about someone you love, because it physically hurts too much to think about it.

She's really a friendly and extremely loyal person otherwise and I'm sure she loves him the best she can, it's just that this is the absolute most that she can connect with any human being.

It's also funny when we talk about how women say that when you have a child you get totally overprotective and you feel the love and bond with your child you've never felt before. To me that's just common sense, I can totally put myself in the shoes of women who have a child and just feel their love - I always cry as a mofo when I watch somebody giving birth on TV lol, but she talks like: "Oh, yes, I guess it's probably like that, others have said so, so it must be true... I hope it will happen to me."

So this is how a really strong sx blind spot looks like in real life (influenced with LSE and E3).

[lemontrees]

And now, after 2 years, they have one of the best relationships out of all people I know - they're really happy and together 24/7. But still, when I talk to her and we talk about some negative scenarios that can come up in life, she cold-bloodidly says that she would definitely leave him and delete all contacts immediately if he would cheat and that she would also leave if he would become disabled (she even said that in a joking matter, like "oops, sorry, i won't waste my life in that case" ) To me it's unfathomable to even think in such rational terms about someone you love, because it physically hurts too much to think about it.

omg. i had an equally scary conversation recently with a longtime E7 sp/so ILE friend. I asked him recently about his experience meeting his current gf (they are talking about marriage.) he said, "well... when I met her... I felt that there was good potential, not only for a relationship to exist, but for it to be positive in my life. it was during a transitional stage... I'd come off of depression, suddenly I had a new city and stable job. and then that. it felt like it was all falling together"

and then that's where he stopped. it was like he was reaching to describe something more, but his brain couldn't get there

I like him a lot and i can understand how those things are meaningful but i felt so sad after that convo

[Suz]

She got her first bf after college and it's funny, cause he's really a catch (extremely smart and attractive) and you would think she would appreciate him a bit more, and be really anxious about losing him, since she has such problems connecting with anyone. The guy was head over heels with her after a day, and then she was deciding if she likes him for the next 5 months (while spending every minute together). In her own words it took her 5 months to "except him in her heart and get used to him" They were together for a month when she was complaining to me how it bothers her how he breathes in her neck while sleeping lol.

And now, after 2 years, they have one of the best relationships out of all people I know - they're really happy and together 24/7. But still, when I talk to her and we talk about some negative scenarios that can come up in life, she cold-bloodidly says that she would definitely leave him and delete all contacts immediately if he would cheat and that she would also leave if he would become disabled (she even said that in a joking matter, like "oops, sorry, i won't waste my life in that case" ) To me it's unfathomable to even think in such rational terms about someone you love, because it physically hurts too much to think about it.

She's really a friendly and extremely loyal person otherwise and I'm sure she loves him the best she can, it's just that this is the absolute most that she can connect with any human being.

I'm sorry. You know I like you Darya, but your description here just struck me as really stuck up. First of all, there is more to love/attraction for someone and being good relationship material than being "smart and good-looking". Such as, what kind of person he is. How does he treat her, is he respectful, is he arrogant. How does he treat others, is he kind, is he fair. Does his eye wander. Is he irresponsible. etc etc and etc. Sounds like she wasn't totally sure about him for a while, perhaps that just means the superficial stuff isn't the only thing that matters to her. Finding out what kind of person someone is can take time. In fact i think it's ridiculous for a woman to be all falling over herself over a guy just because he's good looking and smart (but perhaps an asshole).

Also, for her sentiment about leaving her bf if he cheats on her, i think it's unfair to describe that as an inferior ability to connect with someone. Some people experience being cheated on very deeply, and if anything, that, to me, demonstrates how deep her affections are for him. It also shows her own self-respect for herself. Why stay with someone who would rather be with someone else?

I get it... you'd be head over heels for this guy, right? His good looks and genius would have you be slave to him, i guess...



/rant

[lemontrees]

I have actually seen sx-last people be stubbornly in love with the same unavailable person for years though and refusing to settle for something less than true love the way they define it. i think my friend (being Fi PoLR and also primary interested in being able to afford fun, cool things) just never had the opportunity to explore who he's more compatible with on a more spiritual level (his gf is LSE sx-last and she organizes his life for him) or get in touch with the more emotional aspects of himself.
EDIT: @Suz I never saw you as sx-last btw although it would be cool if you are. also btw I wrote the above before I read your post lol

[Suz]

omg. i had an equally scary conversation recently with a longtime E7 sp/so ILE friend. I asked him recently about his experience meeting his current gf (they are talking about marriage.) he said, "well... when I met her... I felt that there was good potential, not only for a relationship to exist, but for it to be positive in my life. it was during a transitional stage... I'd come off of depression, suddenly I had a new city and stable job. and then that. it felt like it was all falling together"

and then that's where he stopped. it was like he was reaching to describe something more, but his brain couldn't get there

Or it was too private and he just didn't want to keep going. That kind of thing does happen to me sometimes.

[lemontrees]

Or it was too private and he just didn't want to keep going. That kind of thing does happen to me sometimes.

i considered that but it didn't feel like it.

[Suz]

I have actually seen sx-last people be stubbornly in love with the same person for years though. they aren't devoid of feelings obviously. i think my friend (being Fi PoLR and primary interested in being able to afford fun, cool things) just never had the opportunity to explore who he's more compatible with on a more spiritual level (his gf is LSE sx-last and she organizes his life for him) or get in touch with the more emotional aspects of himself.
EDIT: @Suz I never saw you as sx-last btw although it would be cool if you are. also btw I wrote the above before I read your post lol

Hmm... interesting... so what stacking to you see for me, then?

[darya]

"well... when I met her... I felt that there was good potential, not only for a relationship to exist, but for it to be positive in my life. it was during a transitional stage... I'd come off of depression, suddenly I had a new city and stable job. and then that. it felt like it was all falling together"

Wow, how sad would it make her feel if she heard him say that about her. That's why it's so important that people with compatible stackings mate

[lemontrees]

Hmm... interesting... so what stacking to you see for me, then?

not sure

[Suz]

not sure

From what i've been able to gather so far about the different stackings, I resonate with all the syn flow stackings to some extent... less so with the contra-flow.

[darya]

I'm sorry. You know I like you Darya, but your description here just struck me as really stuck up. First of all, there is more to love/attraction for someone and being good relationship material than being "smart and good-looking". Such as, what kind of person he is. How does he treat her, is he respectful, is he arrogant. How does he treat others, is he kind, is he fair. Does his eye wander. Is he irresponsible. etc etc and etc. Sounds like she wasn't totally sure about him for a while, perhaps that just means the superficial stuff isn't the only thing that matters to her. Finding out what kind of person someone is can take time. In fact i think it's ridiculous for a woman to be all falling over herself over a guy just because he's good looking and smart (but perhaps an asshole).

Also, for her sentiment about leaving her bf if he cheats on her, i think it's unfair to describe that as an inferior ability to connect with someone. Some people experience being cheated on very deeply, and if anything, that, to me, demonstrates how deep her affections are for him. It also shows her own self-respect for herself. Why stay with someone who would rather be with someone else?

I get it... you'd be head over heels for this guy, right? His good looks and genius would have you be slave to him, i guess...



/rant

Well shit Suz, I'm sorry, that's how I see her approach to relationships. I never said she didn't love him, she obviously does. And she will probably love him all her life (while I would fall out of love 10 times by then probably). But yeah, taking 5 months to fall in love with someone you see every day and have sex with is extremely foreign to me.

You completely misunderstood the point of my post anyway. I didn't say you should stay with someone if he cheats on you, it's just the pure rationality and pre-planned cut-throat attitude (like ofc I would delete him from my life, no matter the context) that's weird to me. Also, the disabled thing sounds normal to you?

About looks and intelligence... he's also very kind and totally loyal. So also a great person. He was like that from day one when she met him.

You just don't get my point - when you have a strong attraction with someone, it's not about if he checks all boxes on your ideal mate list (symmetrical face check, blue eyes check, has over 50.000 on bank account check, can spell 1000 Greek words check, knows how to cook check, says thank you every time check ). It's about CHEMISTRY and irrational reactions. Why is that so hard to understand for some people??

When I said he's a catch, it's because I have three other friends and one gay friend who are crushing on him and are attracted to him, so he obviously has a lot of appeal and personal charisma. Not that she should like him just for that and be a slave for him...it's just weird how emotionally detached she is from situation.

I'm sorry if it came out arrogant, it wasn't intended. It's just fascinating to me how different people approach love and relationships.

Btw, I know this friend said about me several times(not to my face) that I'm immature when it comes to relationship and that I fall in love and only listen to my heart, and never my brains. And that I'm old enough to know better. So it goes both ways. And I don't blame her cause it's obviously true. We're just wired differently.

[epheme]

It's like the first 30 seconds of this video:



When I'm in a beautiful or interesting or exciting place I have this need to touch my surrounding. Like in a cave I have this need to touch the walls and feel the texture. It's almost like if I can physically feel it deeply enough I could merge with this place and fully experience it. I love feeling different textures.

Or sometimes when it's cold outside I'll wear a short skirt and drink tea in my semi-warm house because I like the feeling of being just a little uncomfortable, like it makes me more aware of my physical existence. And I like the juxtaposition of being a little comfortable (the tea) and a little uncomfortable (being under-dressed) at the same time.

[Suz]

You just don't get my point - when you have a strong attraction with someone, it's not about if he checks all boxes on your ideal mate list (symmetrical face check, blue eyes check, has over 50.000 on bank account check, can spell 1000 Greek words check, knows how to cook check, says thank you every time check ). It's about CHEMISTRY and irrational reactions. Why is that so hard to understand for some people??

No, i get your point perfectly. I know very well what chemistry is, and I'm all about chemistry myself, I'm very attuned to it. In fact, my negative reaction was related to the seeming lack of consideration of chemistry in your post.

For me, chemistry doesn't automatically come just because someone is drop dead gorgeous and smart. There are other things involved in chemistry for me, some that can even override the former (I admit the latter does matter some to me, but not if the person is an asshole), and of course the non-verbalizable je ne sais quoi.

The fact that your post seemed to imply that your friend *should* be falling head over heels for this guy just because he's smart and goodlooking is exactly why I took issue with it. It seems that you didn't actually mean that, and thanks for clarifying. But i still think you shouldn't be so shocked at your friend's initial ambivalence about him.. i think that supports the whole notion of chemistry... maybe she didn't feel much chemistry with him initially....

When I said he's a catch, it's because I have three other friends and one gay friend who are crushing on him and are attracted to him, so he obviously has a lot of appeal and personal charisma.

OK but that doesn't mean she has to see it that way too. Chemistry involves different things for different people.

I'm sorry if it came out arrogant, it wasn't intended. It's just fascinating to me how different people approach love and relationships.

Btw, I know this friend said about me several times(not to my face) that I'm immature when it comes to relationship and that I fall in love and only listen to my heart, and never my brains. And that I'm old enough to know better. So it goes both ways. And I don't blame her cause it's obviously true. We're just wired differently.

Girl... that's ok. I'm sorry I reacted so strongly. And i know what you mean, i tend to be somewhat irrational about love myself (compared to at least one of my friends).

[golden]

Eh I've been told by ye olde collective that I am sx-last, yet my life has been dominated by intense bff relationships, and I have always fallen for someone fast, hard, hot. Being "equally friends with everyone" sounds ... impossible and pointless. So it's stuff like this makes me go "wtf enneagram."

[golden]

wtf

[darya]

For me, chemistry doesn't automatically come just because someone is drop dead gorgeous and smart.

The fact that your post seemed to imply that your friend *should* be falling head over heels for this guy just because he's smart and goodlooking is exactly why I took issue with it. It seems that you didn't actually mean that, and thanks for clarifying.

Ooooooh, now I get your point suz. No no no, I didn't mean that AT ALL. Ofc you don't (or should) feel chemistry or fall in love with person just because they are smart and good looking, that doesn't mean anything in itself. These two things don't just magically bring on attraction.

There are other things involved in chemistry for me, some that can even override the former (I admit the latter does matter some to me, but not if the person is an asshole)

There are many forms of asshollery that turn me off a person completely as well and I can never find them attractive again, no matter how they look like.

But i still think you shouldn't be so shocked at your friend's initial ambivalence about him.. i think that supports the whole notion of chemistry... maybe she didn't feel much chemistry with him initially....

You know what, maybe you're right. I'm probably biased because he seemed really great to me and I couldn't understand what's taking her so long .

But considering her past, I think it's safe to assume she never really feels very strong reactions immediately to anybody (not even friends - I for example get very excited quickly when I meet some great person (let's say a girl) and want to hang out with them all the time and think they're best thing since sliced bread. I try to close distance quickly and get very personal, trying to establish one-on-one alliance, you know. She's just not this easily taken with people. She does say she likes someone and that they're cool, but she needs a lot of time to even call them her friend. It feels like everything is more in official stages with her. Ok, now we know each other for so and so time, now I will invite you to my home and so on.

That's why I was completely surprised when she started hanging out with this guy 24/7 from the first day on, it was so extremely out of character for her. If she would just tell him off or see him once a week, I would just assume she's not that attracted to him and wouldn't sweat it. But in this case, when she was hanging out with him 24/7 from day 1 my conclusion was...wow, now she's really head over heels for the first time in her life. So when I heard that she wasn't at all, and that she was still completely rational and kinda remains to this day, my face was

I'm sorry I reacted so strongly.

It's ok suz I see now how it sounded (was) condescending.

[suedehead]

Eh I've been told by ye olde collective that I am sx-last, yet my life has been dominated by intense bff relationships, and I have always fallen for someone fast, hard, hot. Being "equally friends with everyone" sounds ... impossible and pointless. So it's stuff like this makes me go "wtf enneagram."

I think it's Delta + Sx-last that owns it and thinks 'yeah, I'm asexual and just want to contribute to a pleasant community'.

[Galen]

I think it's Delta + Sx-last that owns it and thinks 'yeah, I'm asexual and just want to contribute to a pleasant community'.

Being sx-last does not make you asexual, although ime most self-professed asexuals I've seen were sx-last.

[Suz]

Almost certain of sp-first for myself, and relate to a lot of what @Suz and @lungs have already said. Although I really don't mind jumping in and thinking about (not dwelling on) the "darkness and despair" that Suz mentioned in post #2; that may or may not be related to the stacking.

No, i'm with you there... i dont mind thinking about it, but as you said, i prefer not to dwell and wallow in it like some people do (and i think it probably is stacking related, at least what i'm seeing here on the forum). EDIT: or idk, just attitude-related perhaps...

To me, darkness and despair only mean that things can get better from there. The wheel of fortune.

[Froody Blue Gem]

I would say sp is like a constant need to escape into my head, away from the world. Being sp 9 with an sp 5 fix goes into that too. Being in my fantasy world but preferring that over the solid world and using that as a means of escape. Or just a place to pick things apart, debate with myself. Constantly planning ahead, thinking of different outcomes for various situations. Not really being much of a risk taker, being socially reserved with myself and not opening up on a deeper level easily.

I don't always block people out consciously but it naturally happens, having a need for comfort, for time with myself, obsessing over the tastes of foods, other things like that. How I want control over myself, my own life, a need to learn about the world and learn things for myself via research.

[The Reality Denialist]

I try to brush my teeth daily. I also own an umbrella, underwear for one weak and I have cooked meatballs once. My bank account has ever been negative (I'm not gonna take loans) although it has never been high either. I also clean regularly like every second year. I consider my well spent when I have eaten once. I take hair cut maybe two times in a year (and I have strong well growing hair).


Is this enough sp for 1st or 2nd?

[Aster]

I’m overly fixated on my health, cleanliness, comfort, and having enough food/resources. My home is more like my cave and I really don’t like to leave it that much anymore. I also really like clothes, shoes and money, and aspire to being able to make things, and be it do it yourself-er. I have a deep appreciation for the beauty of nature and the natural look. I really admire people who live off the grid or survivalist. I value stability.