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Thread: Type-Moon

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    Default Type-Moon

    Type-Moon is composed of various light novels, visual novels, anime/manga, video games, etc. - the most well known being Fate/stay night.

    Fate

    Saber - LSI
    Shirou - ESI (?)
    Rin - LIE
    Berserker (Zero) - SLE

    Kara no Kyoukai

    Shiki Ryougi - SLI
    Mikiya Kokutou - EII

    Tsukihime

    Akiha Tohno - LSE
    Ciel - EII
    Arcueid - SEE (?)

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    Fate/stay night

    Shirou - SEE-Fi
    Rin - Gamma NT?
    Saber - LSI
    Shinji - SLE
    Sakura - SEI

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    Fate/stay night:

    Archer - ESI
    Caster - EIE
    Lancer - SLE

    Shinji - unhealthy ILE > not super good with Se

    Fate zero:

    Kiritsugu - most stereotypical LII ever
    Irisviel - ESE

    Kariya - EII

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    Rin's a rare jaded female ILI and Shirou is an Idealistic SEE. It's why, among other things, the UBW route is the most favored among fans of the franchise. They just fit so well together. Hell, Lancer points that out directly within that route much to their mutual chagrin at the time.

    I mean hell, she even tries to live up to the "standards" of magus society. She tries to be a cold, calculating, amoral seeker of the root. Yet, she just can't do it. I don't want to spoil it and it's a scene that happens at the very start but she gets forced to make a choice between conserving a huge advantage of a resource to win the Grail War versus using it to help what amounts to a stranger for no obvious immediate or even tertiary benefit. Jaded and aspiring to amorality as she is...

    I won't spoil it, but she did a very ILI thing if you get how works for my own type...

    Also, Ryougi is almost textbook LSI. Which brings up another question, what type was/is Mikiya Kokutou? I don't think he was her dual so that makes things a bit more interesting
    Last edited by End; 09-17-2020 at 06:43 AM.

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    @End
    Why do you think Rin is ILI though? She striked me as an SLE (at least Extx), but maybe not a perfect one. I read the VN a while ago (I didn't finish Heaven's Feel yet though), so I don't remember much. However, when I watched the UBW anime, I felt like the characters were just not taking the situations realistically enough. Rin was really unprepared (especially for an ILI), and she literally treated the entire situation like some last minute homework due the next day. She should have at least hired some body guards, you know... Rin was at least entertaining and likeable though, and let's not even get to Shirou...
    If I remembered correctly, he managed to defeat Gilgamesh after training for 15 days.

    That being said, everything else about the story was pretty amazing. I liked the detailed concepts, and the way magic was handled was pretty awesome, but having Shirou as the protagonist for the VN sucked so hard.

    I liked Fate Zero better, since Kiritsugu makes for a better protagonist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    @End
    Why do you think Rin is ILI though? She striked me as an SLE (at least Extx), but maybe not a perfect one. I read the VN a while ago (I didn't finish Heaven's Feel yet though), so I don't remember much. However, when I watched the UBW anime, I felt like the characters were just not taking the situations realistically enough. Rin was really unprepared (especially for an ILI), and she literally treated the entire situation like some last minute homework due the next day. She should have at least hired some body guards, you know... Rin was at least entertaining and likeable though, and let's not even get to Shirou...
    If I remembered correctly, he managed to defeat Gilgamesh after training for 15 days.

    That being said, everything else about the story was pretty amazing. I liked the detailed concepts, and the way magic was handled was pretty awesome, but having Shirou as the protagonist for the VN sucked so hard.

    I liked Fate Zero better, since Kiritsugu makes for a better protagonist.
    SLEs make the best tsunderes

    Shirou’s such a whiny moralfag, reminded me how much I hate one dimensional “power of friendship and grunting really hard” Gamma SF protaganists lmao

    Interestingly, 40 of the 45 FSN endings result in him being killed or tortured, so even the author is aware of the downfalls of his moral inflexibility.

    I think Archer and Shirou are such distinct characters they have different Socionics personalities despite being the same person.

    Shirou -> ESI-Fi
    Archer -> edgy SLE, SEE (getting supervised by your past self? )
    Last edited by Cybel; 09-19-2020 at 02:04 AM.
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    @snek

    Hell yeah, Shirou is literally the worst cringey shounen protagonist I've seen before.

    I'm pretty sure Shirou is more extraverted than Archer though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    @End
    Why do you think Rin is ILI though? She striked me as an SLE (at least Extx), but maybe not a perfect one. I read the VN a while ago (I didn't finish Heaven's Feel yet though), so I don't remember much. However, when I watched the UBW anime, I felt like the characters were just not taking the situations realistically enough. Rin was really unprepared (especially for an ILI), and she literally treated the entire situation like some last minute homework due the next day. She should have at least hired some body guards, you know... Rin was at least entertaining and likeable though, and let's not even get to Shirou...
    If I remembered correctly, he managed to defeat Gilgamesh after training for 15 days.

    That being said, everything else about the story was pretty amazing. I liked the detailed concepts, and the way magic was handled was pretty awesome, but having Shirou as the protagonist for the VN sucked so hard.

    I liked Fate Zero better, since Kiritsugu makes for a better protagonist.
    It was the way she worded things and reacted to things in the VN for me. Very yet ultimately and valuing when the chips were down (e.g. when she almost killed Caster by revealing that she's, among other things, damn good at martial arts despite how that's not very "magelike" of her in the eyes of Caster). Also plays out in why she believed she fundamentally fucked up in summoning Saber. Don't want to spoil it but, well, she had a "Catalyst" on her at the time so of course she summoned that particular servant/class instead of saber. She made all the adequate preparations to summon saber, but fucked up concretely in one way while failing to consider how and why she may have done it all right if she had instead intended to summon another type of servant (though she did catch that and put it all together in the end). Pretty much a textbook example of having in the Id block.

    And yes, Fate/Zero is a better story overall. Gen Urobuchi, while being best buddies with Kinoku Natsu, is a better writer overall IMO. I still don't like how he Evangelion'd Magical Girls though. It was a good show, but the movie really ruined the ultimately hopeful/reconstructive end of the TV series. I'd say to just watch the show and ignore the movie. Leaves a better taste in the mouth as the TV show ultimately reconstructs the genre instead of brutally deconstructing it with no remorse.

    You deconstruct a genre to find out why people loved it in the first place than take that lesson and reconstruct it later or even within the same series. Ultimately, your goal in a "deconstruction" is to find a way to affirm the audience's love of the genre you're deconstructing. Eva and Puella forgot that latter point in the end. Sad, especially with Puella as Gen reached the goal only to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...
    Last edited by End; 09-19-2020 at 07:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    Hell yeah, Shirou is literally the worst cringey shounen protagonist I've seen before.
    I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Shinji Ikari in that regard. At least Shirou had some semblance of balls and moral fortitude in all the routes. Shinji? Shinji's a little bitch. I mean, there's that one scene in the movie with Asuka. You know the one. That moment makes him an ultimately unlikable character. Too bad really, he did have potential and was living up to it right up until he wasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Shinji Ikari in that regard. At least Shirou had some semblance of balls and moral fortitude in all the routes. Shinji? Shinji's a little bitch. I mean, there's that one scene in the movie with Asuka. You know the one. That moment makes him an ultimately unlikable character. Too bad really, he did have potential and was living up to it right up until he wasn't.
    Dunno, Neon Genesis is more of a trippy portal into some dreamlike metaphor world and less of a typical anime. Like a Charlie Kaufman movie vs a Marvel film (except even most shounen is less shitty than Marvel obviously). The characters are less superhumans to root for and more... symbolic archetypes? Fate is just a straightforward shounen with a huge ass universe and occasional eyegasmic animation. If you put Shinji in Shirou's place to fill the role of a typical shounen protaganist then he probably scores more on the soycuck bitch boy meter, but sullen depressed schizo > boring baddassery imo

    Elect Seig (Fate/Apocrapha) and Kira (Gundam Seed) for milquetoast wet cardboard MC award
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    Quote Originally Posted by snek View Post
    Dunno, Neon Genesis is more of a trippy portal into some dreamlike metaphor world and less of a typical anime. Like a Charlie Kaufman movie vs a Marvel film (except even most shounen is less shitty than Marvel obviously). The characters are less superhumans to root for and more... symbolic archetypes? Fate is just a straightforward shounen with a huge ass universe and occasional eyegasmic animation. If you put Shinji in Shirou's place to fill the role of a typical shounen protaganist then he probably scores more on the soycuck bitch boy meter, but sullen depressed schizo > boring baddassery imo

    Elect Seig (Fate/Apocrapha) and Kira (Gundam Seed) for milquetoast wet cardboard MC award
    Eva was a deconstruction of the the entire meche genre in the worst way (hence my disdain for it while I acknowledge its cultural siginificance). Both real and super BTW. Anno really screwed the pooch and so did Gen with Puella Magi (but not as bad because, as I said, the TV series did stick the landing only for him to fuck it up, in part I feel, because he wanted to channel Anno in making his own "End of Evangelion" equivalent).

    It was a "shounen" of its time in its basic structure (i.e. "monster of the week") but it also wasn't. Like Fate (and indeed the entirety of the Nasuverse) it kinda blurred the line between Shounen and Seinen. You had the big bombastic action, awesome superpowers and epic duels where the protag attempts to counter the overwhelming power of the antag/MotW. Yet you also had big questions being asked. I mean, a major theme/central question in fate is "What is it to be a true hero?" That's hardcore Seinen territory. Young boys don't care about that shit over much. Men, though, men are quite intent on trying to answer that one. I think that's why it's become so ubiquitous in weeb culture and as overwhelming popular as it has on both sides of the pacific. And hey, the fact the whole damn setting lends itself to comedy doesn't hurt either.

    Carnival Phantasm was hilarious! As were the exploits of Caiphas Cain. The setting's grimdark in the extreme overall, but that fact can and does lend itself to some amazing dark comedy so well that you'd almost prefer it go for that angle instead of being so serious all the damn time .

    Also, if you really want the exemplar of boring badassery to the point I'd bet you may well prefer Shirou, Kirito, that is all.

    Finally, a fun fact as a fan of the fate series I'd like to point out as it's rather surprising and kinda fun to the normies who aren't full weebs. Nasu originally wanted it to be an Otome game. With the Shirou figure being a female and all that implies. Just some fun food for thought .
    Last edited by End; 09-21-2020 at 05:03 AM.

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