INTj socially not fitting in and friendships

[Creepy-gauss]

Hi guys. I'll preface the below by stating I am a 22 -year-old male.

I've been a lurker here for a few months, and have noticed that the discussions are interesting and the advice is helpful. So I've decided to ask fellow INTJs for suggestions concerning the one sticking point in my life.

To make a long story short, I feel alone! I have (a few) people that I consider friends, but the relationships I have with them aren't particularly deep.

One of them is an ENTP, and I have no idea how I'd stay sane without him. I can talk about things with him that no one else I know is interested in. For example, we can talk about mathematics (we both mathematics majors in university), science, computers, games, poker, sports, and lots of other things. In other words, he's been my mental stimulation for a long time. And I love him for that. But as you can expect in Mirror relations, it's not particulary deep.

And likewise with the other people I consider friends, the relationships I have with them aren't deep in any meaningful way. In other words, if I'm having a bad day and just want to vent to someone, or want someone to listen to me talk, there is no one there.

I've been out of a romantic relationship for almost 8 months. It was with an ESFJ (Dual relations), so it was a very satisfying relationship while it lasted. During that time, I had someone to empathize with, to listen to me, to connect with mentally. Since that relationship ended, I have had no one to take the place balance she gave to my psyche. There's no one for me to connect with on a human level, and at times it can feel overwhelming. I don't necessarily mean in the context of a romantic relationship, but in any type of relationship.

Every so often, I go into one of those self-pitying stupors, and nearly come to tears about it. Why is it that everyone else I know can have a connection with someone but I can't? Why is it that in a world of over six billion people, I feel completely alone at the end of each day? All of this is causing me a lot of stress, and I am worried that this is unduly affecting my mental health.

I just don't feel like a normal person (given the fact that I know I'm INTJ), and I would give anything just to have one person to be mentally/emotionally intimate with. It certainly doesn't help that I'm not full of self-confidence ("I'm too introverted/different/strange to ever find another such person"). It just seems like such a trial for me to get to know anyone on more than a superficial basis.

And so finally, I am earnestly asking any of you for advice. Have any of you experienced, or are experiencing, anything similar? If so, did you manage to find an effective way of dealing with it? I am anxious to hear anything you guys have to say. Thanks in advance.

[diamond]

Sounds like you really cared about the esfj. And you've been out of the relationship for less than a year. I think it takes a full year to recover from the loss of someone you loved or cared about. Did you end the relationship or did she? If she left you, you might be feeling even more stung.

So it's going to take some time before you feel better - the worst of it could be over in about four months.

Pedro is right. Starting even superficial connections with others can be helpful. I mean, stronger relationships have to start somewhere. You expand your chances of having stronger, deeper relationships if you take a lot of casts into the pond, no?

But I think you could mainly just be hurting from your loss. When you're hurting, people seem to catch on and try to leave you alone, which of course, only makes the hurting worse. When you're feeling better, people sense this and try to connect with you more.

The other suggestion is to try to keep very busy doing things. This helps some people stay distracted from feeling alone.

Intj's tend to not recognize when others are trying to reach out to them, too. You might not be noticing the overtures you're getting. Also, have you not been following up with people that you've previously made connections with? Are you isolating because you miss the esfj?

Sorry you are having a bad time. Hopefully the worst will be over soon.

[XcaliburGirl]

Gauss, like Pedro said, I've got the same issues and can't help much. He and Blaze have got some good ideas.

Intj's tend to not recognize when others are trying to reach out to them, too. You might not be noticing the overtures you're getting.

This really baffles me. How can I be needing relationships so desperately and miss this? I feel like I ought to be disagreeing with you, but how can I deny that I'm NOT seeing something I haven't seen?

[Waddlesworth]

I agree that INTj's don't notice when others are trying to help them. It can be quite aggravating and I have had to deal with this on several occasions. There have been times where I truly have wanted to listen and to help but the INTj i was trying to help would repeatedly tell me that they "have no one to talk to that understands" them, as though hinting to me that I was no help at all. Sometimes I just want to shake whoever it is and say "look, what the hell do you expect? the world? here i am, expending so much energy and emotion on you and you give me that sort of cold shoulder?!?"

As you can see, this is a touchy subject for me.

But gauss, the world isn't going to come to you, there are people out there that want to help. just because you are deep doesn't mean that the outside world is shallow. This is an impression i have gotten from many INTj's- that the rest of the world is wrong and superficial. It is unfair and, quite bluntly, untrue.

So I agree with everyone else, get out there, talk to people. There are plenty of potential friends.

[Waddlesworth]

The best damn INTj advice I have ever heard. From now on I will try to do this for them. (its something I sorta had a feeling about, but it's good to have that confirmation.)

You INTj's are great! Don't be sad.

[Creepy-gauss]

Thanks for the responses.

I have totally accepted that the relationship with the ESFJ is over. I'm just anxious to have someone to connect with again. I am ready to "move on" relationship-wise. I don't need instant gratification in that regard. It would be enough for me to know that I WILL have an opportunity again. That's the part I'm not so certain about .

I am aware that I have to be the one to get out into the world, and not vice versa. It just feels so unnatural for me to take the initiative in any social sense. On the other hand, I can sit here and think up many reasons why I can't talk to people. I just need to get out there and do it.

It is somewhat relieving to know that I'm not the only one that experiences these feelings. Being an INTJ sure isn't easy!

[SFVB]

Gauss,

Being any personality type isn't easy, it's only harder when you REALIZE it's not easy and bear that burden every day. INTjs have a tendencies to go through long relationship dry-spells, especially when they are younger because of an underdeveloped introverted feeling function which allows them to know how they feel about others, and also, to read how others feel about them. INTjs just "want to be loved" and they want it to be obvious. You may find that you've developed connections with many people throughout your life and lost that connection, which you partly blame on yourself, but also on the other person for "not making enough of an effort." Well, unfortunately for INTjs, WE have to make the effort in the relationship because ironically, if someone else makes the effort, we usually feel uncomfortable (even if it's an attractive member of the opposite sex). So, as with all conscious functions, Fi has to be developed, and that means putting yourself through social hell for a while. For example...

I was very active in theatre programs as a young man, forcing me to be around a lot of people. And, as is typical with theatre, there are many F types, and many N types, making it much easier to develop relationships with them (practice makes perfect, and it's always easier to start in environments that are going to make it easy...later you can work your way up to the harder one). I always HATED being on a sports team (even though I loved baseball and basketball) because the majority of guys on the team were ST types, who I tend not to get along with easily, making it too hard to form relationships with them at that early stage in my life. Now, I tend to be able to get along with them much more easily, although other than the occassional ISTj, I rarely develop much of a closeness to them.

As I developed my Fi skills, I then took the next step in my "relationship bootcamp" training regimen...I joined a fraternity in college. I did this because....my father and grandfather had been members of one, and I decided to continue the tradition. In some ways it was a very disruptive decision, as it took a lot away from my studies, but in others, it was perhaps the greatest learning experience for me, as an INTj, that I have had, or ever will have. There were all types of guys, and believe it or not, I learned to get along with almost all of them, some of which were good friends throughout school (I might add that I discovered personality theory right before my third year in college which made my understanding of certain more "annoying" types more profound and therefore made it easier for me to tolerate their bullshit, which there was plenty of).

The most eye-opening experience to date however was during a sales training program with a major corporation. Every personality type, except one, (ENFj) was represented. I had a choice...either stand out and be the "smartest" one in the program, or, try and limit yourself to make friends. Interestingly, I got to see the results of both approaches, as there were two other INTjs in the program with me. I made the choice, after realizing that it was more important to be respected (even if with some hatred and envy among my co-workers) than to compromise myself (which I often did in order to make friends in the fraternity) and my abilities. And, because I had learned how to manage very difficult relationships in college, it made the ones that I did develop here (1 INFj, 1 ESFj, 1 ENTj, 1 ISFp, 1 INFp, 1 INTp, 1 ENTp) much easier. The INTj who decided to take the other approach did what I did in college, and he ended up hanging out a lot with an ESTp, with practically no other relationships out of 33 people. The third INTj (although this is somewhat irrelevent), ended up self-destructing and retreating into the ol' "feel sorry for me" strategy to try and get people to talk to him (I used this one in middle school). Well, as it didn't work for me in middle school, it also didn't work for him and he ended up alienating everyone.

So, to summarize, my advice to you is....force yourself to get into social situations, but at first, try and find ones that are likely to have a higher concentration of F and N types. Secondly, realize that you need to LEARN how to manage relationships, and a lot of that has to do with making more of an effort than others at times, even if it pisses you off. Lastly, when you take an emotional beating in a situation, whether it is with women or with men, say "thank you sir, may I have another."

[false]

To make a long story short, I feel alone!

This is very easy if you can visually identify your dual.

The rest is like physics. Imagine two particles (you and your dual). If you want to make a whole unit, you have to make a physical contact.
This is very easy. Just close eyes and fall onto her / him.

After this, you can talk etc... the rest is.. heh

[false]

ps. you can incrase the speed of your body, it will give you more potential. If she is realy big she may need a lot of your energy to feel you hehehe :-)

[false]

ps2. dont use a car!

[Kirana]

i guess i'm lucky. i have one such person. it's purely platonic, but he is someone i can talk to and be confident of being understood - the one person i'm confident would understand when i describe my feelings. i have no idea what type he is, though.

and, consistent with what Pedro said, when i'm depressed, of all my friends he is the best one at making me feel better. he doesn't judge, he doesn't make my decisions for me, he helps me articulate my anguish and yet never appears pushy or that he tries to do it. somehow i end up walking through exactly what the trigger was, and i end up articulating what my plan roughly is for solving the situation/problem. i guess when i feel like i'm powerless against the weight of my problems, he helps me find the controls again. and i feel better afterward.

oh and if i'm suicidal, he takes it seriously enough to tell me he doesn't want me to do it, and yet without panicking or anything - sort of like half of him thinks i won't do it, but the other half is worried that i might. so basically he's useful to me when i need him, rather than turn needy on me when i'm least able to offer of myself.

maybe i'm an unusual INTJ, but i always notice loyalty in friends. okay, you'd need to keep it up for some time before i'd notice, but i do. i think because i am acutely aware how few there are who would understand me, at least enough to accurately appreciate me, so when i find them i am prepared to invest in the friendship.

i have another best friend, female this time, who is almost totally my opposite. although she doesn't exactly understand my mood swings and depressions, she is always there for me. sometimes i do say to her that 'no one understands', but she never takes it as an insult to her - she believes me when i say it, and frankly tells me that she really probably does not get it. but we both know it doesn't matter that she doesn't know exactly what i feel. what's important is that she knows what i need - which is, someone who empathises, someone who just loves me and believes in me when no one else will.

after 10 years (for both friends), you can be certain that they have proven their friendship beyond any doubt that even an INTJ can harbour, long ago. so they are out there, and if you are really honestly looking, you will know them after a while. of course, you need to let potential friends remain long enough for you to find out! [/i]

[helixtherat]

Hi Gauss—

I'm an INTJ, and I identify with everything you've said here. There are very few people in the world that I can really relate to. And I don't think there is anything more awful than loneliness.

I also have an ENTP friend who is one of the only people I can really talk to. We were roommates for a while, but he's moved away. It's been especially difficult without him lately, since I'm recovering from a breakup. I do have one other friend that I really trust, but he lives about an hour and a half away, and he's very busy. So I've mainly been coping by myself (or not coping, depending on what kind of day I'm having).

I think that INTJs are so independent because we have to be to survive. Other people take it for granted that they can always lean on someone else if it comes down to it. We don't have that luxury.

And likewise with the other people I consider friends, the relationships I have with them aren't deep in any meaningful way. In other words, if I'm having a bad day and just want to vent to someone, or want someone to listen to me talk, there is no one there.

... Every so often, I go into one of those self-pitying stupors, and nearly come to tears about it. Why is it that everyone else I know can have a connection with someone but I can't? Why is it that in a world of over six billion people, I feel completely alone at the end of each day? All of this is causing me a lot of stress, and I am worried that this is unduly affecting my mental health.

I know exactly what you mean. It seems so fucking unfair. I expend so much mental and emotional and physical energy trying to do the right thing, and you'd think I'd deserve some modicum of friendship. I really do want to engage with other people. But it feels like there's a glass wall between me and the rest of the world. It's always felt that way.

Is this what you mean?

I'm afraid I don't have any advice to offer, beyond what's already been said. Stay busy—sitting around going over and over these thoughts will only make things worse. It's not easy, especially when you're depressed, but you have to force yourself to get out and do something. It doesn't matter what. Anything that provides external stimulation is good. Even if you can't think of anything you'd really enjoy, the distraction gives you a break from ruminating over the reasons you're unhappy, and your heart needs that.

And, if you're like me, you probably have friends that you've lost touch with—or know someone who you aren't close with, but think you might like to be. Pursue and strengthen those relationships.

That can be especially hard when you're depressed—because you want nothing more than a shoulder to cry on, but most people will shy away if you approach them with a desperate and needy attitude. Instead, show genuine interest in their lives; I've found that nothing brings people closer than showing that you appreciate them.

I hope this helps. Hang in there.

[Creepy-hihi]

INTJ's like you and me, don't look for a deep connection in friends, we look for that they make sense. However, the lonely feeling, well that is the part of you that longs for a deep connection, I only know for myself that I look for deep connections in potential partners, most likely it will go the same for you.

[Creepy-]

Every so often, I go into one of those self-pitying stupors, and nearly come to tears about it. Why is it that everyone else I know can have a connection with someone but I can't? Why is it that in a world of over six billion people, I feel completely alone at the end of each day? All of this is causing me a lot of stress, and I am worried that this is unduly affecting my mental health.

I just don't feel like a normal person (given the fact that I know I'm INTJ), and I would give anything just to have one person to be mentally/emotionally intimate with. It certainly doesn't help that I'm not full of self-confidence ("I'm too introverted/different/strange to ever find another such person"). It just seems like such a trial for me to get to know anyone on more than a superficial basis.

And so finally, I am earnestly asking any of you for advice. Have any of you experienced, or are experiencing, anything similar? If so, did you manage to find an effective way of dealing with it? I am anxious to hear anything you guys have to say. Thanks in advance.

Learning how to develop the so called INTJ self power is a great thing. That, and realizing when you need to stop thinking about yourself/inside of yourself. I would get into my "energy manipulatio theory", but, maybe later.

I've been there.

I'm glad I'm out of that weird zone, although it does come back rarely.
Thinking about really worse off people in other parts of the world helps sometimes..... you've got a talent and oppertunity that shouldn't go to waste. ...

[Creepy-]

INTJ's like you and me, don't look for a deep connection in friends, we look for that they make sense. However, the lonely feeling, well that is the part of you that longs for a deep connection, I only know for myself that I look for deep connections in potential partners, most likely it will go the same for you.

That's how I am