The girl described appears to have 4D-Fe and 1D-Ti. It remains to be seen if this Fe is directed and purposeful, that is, consistent with the Base position.
The girl described appears to have 4D-Fe and 1D-Ti. It remains to be seen if this Fe is directed and purposeful, that is, consistent with the Base position.
Beta/Gamma extrovert from this part, i would rule out poor IEEs and ESEs.
"Maybe it was wrong to call it Fi, I just mean that when she's talking with you sometimes, you feel really pressured by her and shes unaware or doesn't care that she is making other people uncomfortable. she told me that a lot of people are "intimidated" when they first meet her and i would agree with that. she can be quite probing and intense
If someone pressured her inconsistencies I think she would get extremely defensive. Whenever I start to I just back off because I dont want to deal with it, i usually just laugh when i notice one.
Spiteful: If I miss a call from her, or do something she doesn't like, she will try to punish me by giving me the silent treatment, but i just do it right back to her until one of us cracks lol... she always always tries to make me jealous, and i think its a joke. she tries to be subtle about it but its so obvious to me that i just sidestep it and probably just make her even angrier sometimes"
IEIs don't have dialectical-algorithmic cognition (they're vortical-synergetic). Maybe you're thinking of EIE, the type the OP asked about. I also think any type can become self-contradicting if they're psychologically wrecked.Originally Posted by fighter
On a more general note, since I'm posting in this thread: EIEs as a species don't behave as the OP describes. I don't know any type that as a rule acts like that, it's mostly NTR as others (@Solaris) have pointed out.
I also agree with the earlier assertion that ExFx is all that seems strongly likely from what he said, but even that is questionable.
Yes. That's right. I meant EIE. (I've been extremely busy lately and wrote that incorrectly.) So ENFj is off the table...
totally inaccurate. read this for a better understanding of DA cog > http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko
EIEs contradict themselves heavily, but can respond well to someone solving that for them and showing them where they're being inconsistent (which the dude in the OP obviously cannot do and thus he comes here to rant about type-me-thread). That's a good way to make them chill out. Fi creatives are not interested in such things and don't welcome them.
Fi-creatives will typically respond with a kind of semi-spiteful disregard to having their inconsistencies pointed out, whereas Fe-dominants, despite being more open to having them resolved, can easily become defensive if pressed about them, as it's an area they highly value.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Intellectual Sphere
The essential distinguishing feature of the Dialectical style, is a view of the universe as a unified struggle of opposites. In speech it often uses syntactic constructions "if-then-else", the predictive branches of a developing process. Within limits, the Dialectic strives to find an intermediate point of dynamic equilibrium between contrasting extremes. Dialectical cognition is born from the colliding flow and counterflow of thought, the consciousness and unconsciousness. Thinkers of this style are characterized by an express inclination towards the synthesis of opposites, the removal of contradictions, which they so keenly perceive.
- http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko
No. Dialectical-Algorithmic types attempt to remove contradictions (remember, it's either "yes" or "no" for an algorithm), which just so happens to benefit Casual-Determinist types by unveiling endpoints during complex problem recognition and the establishment of an algorithm by perception; we're talking about creating an end to circularity by Dialectical-Algorithmic types for Casual-Determinist types. That is, Dialectical-Algorithmic types perceive the algorithm (or map with an end point) that is needed to reduce the risk of circularity and hold together the links created by Causal-Determinism or else Casual-Determinists will shut down and go no further. "If even one link fails for any reason, then Determinists lose their sense of rationale and find it difficult to act because they see no reason to."
I really love the crossover between Gulenko's cognition styles and Sergei's profile descriptions from Socionics.com.
"When INTps speak publicly they habitually adopt a slow, monotone speech pattern. This may have a sleep inducing hypnotic effect on their audience. INTps are good at noticing contradictions in theories or opinions and can focus others attention to this."
- http://www.socionics.com/prof/intp.htm
"The other version is slow suggestion, primarily based on entrainment through rhythmic vocalization and/or sound, multiple repetitions of the same phrase with variation. Variations in this case are particularly significant, working akin to the chorus in a song. Gradually a trance state is reached—external relaxation with internal concentration. The greater the monotony, the sooner a deep trance is reached. Hence why some people rapidly settle down and fall asleep under a monotone 'bubnezh' TV."
- http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko
Oh, and don't you just love the LSIs and their predilection for "the end times" with their hidden agenda "to believe" and their duality partner being an EIE who has Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition and a predisposition for believing in a "creator?" The same goes for ESIs and their hidden agenda "to believe" with an activity partner who has Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition as well.
Last edited by IBTL; 10-03-2014 at 02:20 AM.
NTR?
Not type-related.
Sorry OP, no quadra wants to claim your girlfriend.
ESE. "Overextends herself because she wants to do too much" is fairly textbook 1-dimensional Ni, and fairly opposed to the EIE tendency to hesitate and overplan (and not take enough direct action). The rest is just textbook EF stuff, but I would be inclined to type her ESE > EIE based on what appears to be an attendant instability and she appears to use emotion rather than force/presence to influence people (ESFs both have both, but generally ESEs try to "infect" you with their projects, SEEs try to push you into them).
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Well I'm fairly certain im an SLI now.
I've just been observing myself with her and I just realized SLI fits everything
Oh, why isn't that lovely! So concise...Not type-related.
That also sounds like ESE.
I would like to try and answer this question.
What you are describing may be an example of ISFj
ISFj profile:
http://socionics4you.com/english-humlet3/?lang=en
What in the world would possess you to think that this girl is not a Passionate type?
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Her impressionability, volatility, and aesthetics makes me think of ISFj, who may as yet not be secure in her own character.
ISFj profile: http://socionics4you.com/english-humlet3/?lang=en
this made me L-O-L
Fi valuing
And young ?
Actually, this is Fe all over the place. My LSI ex-GF did this exact thing once, and I quietly freaked out and thought, "This is absolutely not good. Nope. Not at all. Wir kommen zum Ende."
ESE, I don't really relate that much and I'm an EIE so...
As for security seeking and monetary stability I think SEE could make some sense. When you scratch the surface this is their weak suggestible point. I know one who even gets nervous while making risk investments (not real ones) in board games.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Not sure how anyone is seeing ESE particularly si as it sounds like she cannot control her reactions, or her internal body state. EIEs are more prone to being bipolar for example, raising their voice at others and have a much harder time understanding social cues in the sense they can’t understand a person has had enough. ESEs don’t do these and want harmony with others, they are the ones to ask you “Is this environment harming you?” Obviously this sounds fe fe as she makes her emotions known to everyone. This also shows her spouts of neuroticism, playing the hot/cold thing is more a victim type. I think she’s an unhealthy EIE.
EIEs may be more subtly "manipulative" while ESEs may be more reactionary and rapid (Se demo). she seems stuck in the moment. doesnt get subtle jokes bc shes too basic? every body being her new best friend also sounds like prolly higher S than N its a forceful way to draw ppl in. and ESEs will def make u uncomfortable if they think ur not behaving appropriately if they feel they have the power and the motivation similar to LSEs they feel like they have to put othres in their place all EJs do still less abrasive or forceful than LSE
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Hey, an oldie!
After reading, I will say that if the OP entered this girl's social circle and started dating her and yet all they could collect on her was what they actually wrote, then ESE is very unlikely for her. With a true ESE their Si creative, Ni polr are very noticeable and here it's nowhere to be seen.
IEE is maybe more likely
seems to take everything literally. For example I can't make any subtle jokes with her because she won't get them
Reaction to jokes can be NTR or actually because jokes are just bad, but IEE's interest flashes rapidly it could affect their overall tracking of a situation enough to get a joke that's not more in the open.
Almost has no convictions she's made on her own. All are taken from others, has trouble formulating own opinion and overextends herself frequently because she wants to do too much.
IEEs are famously like blank slate at times and they can take suggestions or other's opinions as their own. ESEs as ethicals are more open than rigid LSIs/SLIs types but have more of a mind of their own. I note that she overextends but OP does not once mention a situation where that seems liable to Si in the creative. It should become obvious after somewhat prolonged exposure to ESEs. IEEs are more efficient in their time allotment and activities but precisely of their active state they can also bring problems onto themselves.
She is somewhat spiteful.
When you first meet her, you would think shes really spontaneous fun loving etc.. but the closer you get to her she becomes a lot more serious, brooding and critical.
IEE's Fi creative working it's charm.
Contradicts herself all the time.
IEEs can have an opinion one day, a different one on the other and are prone to make promises that vanish into thin air in 24 hours.
Obsessed with Money and job security
This can mean so many things, so it's up to interpretation. IEE's obsession with money is to protect their future, to make new connections to support themselves, to secure an income. IEE-SLI dyad is a ‘clever merchant’ type. They can make money maybe better than EIE-LSI but don't covet luxury per se. EIEs might wish for more money for a lavish lifestyle but can only work, like the LSI, in a system: left out, they're powerless and not as ingenious as IEE-SLI. So that money obsession the OP speaks of should be understood in context. ESEs seem to be more free or generous with their money and they use it at their own discretion according to subtype: Creative might be an independent soul who is doing their own thing with a collection of anime figurines or gets obsessed with a far-away culture and spends their money to travel to Asia to finally get immersed in it, because they don't care about saving money for traditional things like 'normal society' does.
Overall IEE, then maybe EIE if you put a spin on the text.
But ESE is improbable. No Si creative at all from the description.
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EIEs seem to to take everything metaphorically. Generates their own set of troubles.LOL.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Is this not the definition of Fe gone way waaaaay over the top? She's clearly got a personality disorder, but it seems like a disorder resulting in way too much Fe expression at the expensive of Fi relational integrity
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
@nifl very curious what your thoughts on this are
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell
Fe exaggeration, adamant extraversionLiterally everyone whom she meets for more than an hour is her new "best" friend.
Fe exaggerationEverything is her "favorite".
Fe, extraversionshe is the epitome of a drama queen. Her computer crashes she can go from screaming to laughter in 30 seconds (did drama in highscool too). She is just a ball of emotion pretty much.
weaker intuitionseems to take everything literally. For example I can't make any subtle jokes with her because she won't get them.
weaker intuition. also logic, but that can be excluded based on the restseems socially just... Unaware of how others are feeling (in terms of Fi),
ethical, extraversion, closer to Fe. but irrationals change attitudes fasterAlternates between being very intense and questioning a persons morality and being completely fun loving.
a matter of taste, but Si types normally have good sense of aesthetics. bright colours usually attract attention, so more extraversion and ethicalClothing she either dresses completely unassuming or completely over the top with bright colors and almost embarrassing
ethics and extraversionCloses distance rapidly with communication, almost too fast, has a lot of problems with "leading guys on" because of that. Gives complements to those she feels are in need of them, likes to draw in those who are seen as socially inept (e.g nerdy guys, quiet girls etc)
not type related as such. in weaker functions people copy others more. less ''philosophical'' originality is more expected for sensorsAlmost has no convictions she's made on her own. All are taken from others,
also related to weaker functions. irrationals talk with less structure, more haphazardlyhas trouble formulating own opinion
extraverts are more like this, especially irrationalsand overextends herself frequently because she wants to do too much
ethical, irrationalContradicts herself all the time.
Se valuing, job security/stability is more rational. but sensors are generally concerned with material securityObsessed with Money and job security
ethical types are more attracted to intelligence in the traditional senseseems to value intelligence a lot
sounds bipolar. also Fe intensity, but irrationals have more rapidly changing attitudesShe alternates between being completely funloving and then completely distressed. She is somewhat spiteful. Extremely melodramatic and romantic, and sentimental. alternates between her emotional states in matters of seconds it seems (I question if she's bipolar actually).
could be ESE or EIE, ESE slightly more likely. if she has some sort of personality disorder that predisposes towards unusual emotional expression and cycles then SEE could also be considered. IEE does not fit
Nah nah nah, this is annoyingly an ESE. Not every drama queen is an EIE - the description is more "joyous" (ESE) than "pompous" (EIE).
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
There's literally no Si creative anywhere in what the OP wrote. They knew of the type, and still they didn't catch any signs of it after observing her for some time, noticing that she spent her energy in many other different ways. Her main way of expression and interaction didn't include Si. Options for her are 'annoying' EIE or IEE over ESE because the creative isn't there.
You outright denied things IEE are notorious for in your post. Of course IEE 'will not fit' then.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
Lol yeah, reading into everything.
IEE with demonstrative Fe , aimed at making her creative Fi 'work'.
Regina George subtype.
The shadow side of IEE. Fi can be so fickle.
she evidently has trouble with subtlety, nuance and reading other people, is much concerned with material reality - for a sensing type. There's little explicit Ni there, too
the things that fit IEE are just what fits extraverts, ethicals and irrationals. The combination of concern with money and job security (Sensing or Se valuing) and trouble with understanding people's feelings or nuance in language (mostly problems for sensing types) makes it unlikely to be IEE. IEE are competent in nuance and in understanding what others are feeling.
IEE are notorious for a lot of things, especially by nonsensical typers who explain their elementary mistakes through contradictions to the theory as if they were self-evident, usually parroting some schizophrenic 'guru' or the like. The description fits a Fe extravert more than IEE - the emotional attitude, if nothing else. If the possiblity of nonstandard Fi ego is admitted then only SEE is likely.
Define Si-creative.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
I often noticed that SEEs are way more "wilder", especially due to matter of fact that they are unable to stay quiet and is flexible by their behavior to connect with others - what Fi creative does to a person. As for IEE, this type tends to be uh, what can I say, energetically calm but extremely inquisitive about mechanism of things (the way it works). But for this girl, ESE it is because I did notice Ni PoLR.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Thank you, I no longer feel like I'm losing my mind
Your analysis makes the most sense to me. I was thinking EIE myself, but I can see ESE too. Either way, she's clearly not a "healthy" representative of her type
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell
This is a histrionic person, which is correlated with Fe lead (unhealthy version)
Unfortunately, we can only read broad strokes by someone whose type we don't know and might've influenced our perception of her. But we do know he got to know her reasonably well, something not restricted to seeing her 3 or 4 times at a friend of a friend's house, and he didn't write ONE word that indicated Si creative. IEEs can have problems with subtlety and nuance in jokes and stories because their attention is everywhere: ESE can follow a plotline in a story, IEEs not infrequently can't: their attention flashes too rapidly and they can't hold the point. Books, series, even movies are just abandoned without shedding any light on them or letting them ripe. Much is lost this way. ‘Sensing’ as an easy explanation doesn't cut it every time.
That's not how it works. IEEs are Te activating and carry basic truths with them related to money, truths that present as a concern with “material reality” as you call it: thrifting is good; items should be kept in case they come to be in use again, scanning possibilities to make a situational profitable return, etc. “Get a good job and keep it” as the OP put it is yet another of the basic truths that might find its way to their mouth. Both Beta and Delta care about money, as do most of the types. But while Beta NFs covet material possessions in what they aspire to, for example in the IEI it's hinted at in their playful interest in a life traveling around the globe and visiting the rich areas of cities, Deltas (and maybe Gamma) are where the dry, reasonable expectations about life and work are spoken of matter-of-factly and are of self-evident importance on top of making their way to everyday talk. By the way he put it, this is what the OP might've detected.
In addition, ‘sensing’ for money misses other subtleties like, between an ESE and an IEE, it's the ESE that might get cheated by a shady contractor that convinced them to pay them in full before completing the job. An IEE would never let anyone catch them with their pants down that way with their Te activating and their search for ‘comparative advantages’. Who is more concerned with material reality, at the end of the day, really?
But they can often appear blind to other people's sense of contentment with ‘spiteful’ comments while that’s more unlikely for ESES. ESEs also by the same reasons “don't pressure people in front of others to the point of making everyone feel uncomfortable” that way because they have Alpha decorum while IEEs can when they're in one of their moods as they're not interested in group dynamics or keeping the atmosphere as much. So they ruined a family talk that was running smoothly, so what? To them it's not as important as expressing their judgment and it comes off as untimely and blunt pressuring to Betas. ESEs also don't contradict themselves as often as IEE.
“I don't understand the question insinuation and I won't respond to it”
The creative is the function the extrovert uses to create an atmosphere for people to interact in. In ESFjs it is about creating and partaking in the Alpha environment of plentiful food or goodies and entertainment based on Si, along with ‘services’ and ‘gifts’ that vibes with and invigorates Alphas. An ESE idea of “a plan” is exactly what I described but it's not only their idea: they're the dutiful executors. When you enter their circle, it shouldn't take you time to notice it because along with their Si creative, Ni polr enters the room. You tell them you want to come over for pizza. You get to their home and are 3 homemade pizzas, surprise dumplings that you weren't expecting, a cheesecake they prepared just to treat you and while you're talking to them they're still going at it in the kitchen. How did they pull it off? Well, that was so thoughtful. Only, you start to notice it's their modus vivendi, they're always engaged in something of that nature, overworking themselves when they're engaging in Si because it's as if it's what they must do and it can't wait. You start to notice other things in that nature: managing Si for others in that ‘I’ll do it first time in the morning, it can't wait, you just let me!” mindset. And they sincerely expect you to enjoy it and approve of what they provide.
I'm not talking about a 50-year-old EIE that has learned to make scones and now is telling everyone about it and how they might get lucky and invited to try them out and see their china collection (real story, btw), or someone getting excited that they get to organize their BF's birthday party.
That is what is completely missing in the OP. What he mentions is what appears to be Ni polr (but could actually also be Ni lead) and I could accept that's Ni in an ESE…if he said he met her superficially and saw Ni polr attached to work and other things, like ESEs would probably display from far-away perspective still not intimate with her. He got to know her deeper and still nothing Si in service of others even if histrionic but traits from other types?
Last edited by Rusal; 12-18-2022 at 09:15 AM.
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