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Thread: Enneagram / Socionics Type Correlations

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    This is the list of people I've personally come across and typed for sure, other correlations are suspect until I see them in a living person - internet, celebrities and fictional characters don't count ; ) It's a fairly conservative list, but I call bullshit on correlations being all over the place - a huge number of people are being mistyped in enneagram (much more than in socionics) and besides it's often difficult to tell for sure unless you're very familiar with person.

    ILE: 7, (6?)

    LII: 5, 1
    ESE: 2, 3, (6?)
    SEI: 9
    EIE: 3, 2
    IEI: 4, 9
    SLE: 7, 8
    LSI: 6, 1
    LIE: 3, 8, 6
    ILI: 5
    SEE: 7, 6, 3, (8?)
    ESI: 6, 1, 2
    IEE: 6, 7
    EII: 9, 1
    LSE: 3, 6, 8
    SLI: 9

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    It'd be much more straightforward just to decide what the stereotypes for types in both systems are. No one can decide that. Once you do, correlating anything else is unnecessary.

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    .
    Last edited by dot; 02-17-2020 at 02:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    I´d like to ask forum members especially Ammonius, Ashton and others who comment on the probable relations between these two systems.

    So far I have a few tendencies myself but not a complete list of them yet, so I won´t write yet.

    But I´d like to know: don´t you think it´s possible an LIE E3? Or an EIE E2? Or even SLI E1? And what would be the type(s) most likely for an E3?
    Apparently I am a LIE 3w4. Of course there are correlations I thought I was E5 but apparently not..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Apparently I am a LIE 3w4. Of course there are correlations I thought I was E5 but apparently not..
    Personally, I think LIE's only come in e8 and e3. Are you sure about the 4?

    My own tri-type is 8w7, 3w2, 6w7, FWIW.

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    The ones I'm seeing on a lot of lists and having a hard time picturing are Fe lead 1 and ESI 2. Anybody have examples?

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    What would the reason be for e9 EIE to be an impossible combination, according to so many interpretations?

    Is it the "EIE drama" versus the 9's reputation to avoid such a thing?
    If so, I should say that stereotypes are a terrible means for typing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Personally, I think LIE's only come in e8 and e3. Are you sure about the 4?

    My own tri-type is 8w7, 3w2, 6w7, FWIW.
    I'm not even sure about the 3. Why not? LIE 3w4 makes sense I think . I don't want to know about my tritype honestly it feels like justification to me. Maybe similar to how I don't like the subtype theory. Why complicate things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I'm not even sure about the 3. Why not? LIE 3w4 makes sense I think . I don't want to know about my tritype honestly it feels like justification to me. Maybe similar to how I don't like the subtype theory. Why complicate things
    IDK. I just took a test and that's what the results were.

    I've been told that they partially explain why I might be compatible with e6's. They are in my tri-type, so I can understand them. Aside from that, and the fact that having an e3 in there explains why I like to be presentable, I don't see much use for it.

    But you are right. This all might just be justifications. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    IDK. I just took a test and that's what the results were.

    I've been told that they partially explain why I might be compatible with e6's. They are in my tri-type, so I can understand them. Aside from that, and the fact that having an e3 in there explains why I like to be presentable, I don't see much use for it.

    But you are right. This all might just be justifications. Lol.
    I think my test results were something like: possible types: 3w4 3w2 8w7
    But honestly I might seem like an "achiever " but my core fear is being dependent and controlled forever! Not a very 5w4ish philosophy.. just don't control me!
    And in no way I identify with Justin Bieber who is also a 3w4.. I identify with 3w4's "I am what I do" so that is why I changed my profile as soon as I read that, it made so much sense.
    Are 8w7s aslo like that? And how do they act when depressed? Cause 3s go through 9ish behaviour when unhealthy and that makes sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I think my test results were something like: possible types: 3w4 3w2 8w7
    But honestly I might seem like an "achiever " but my core fear is being dependent and controlled forever! Not a very 5w4ish philosophy.. just don't control me!
    And in no way I identify with Justin Bieber who is also a 3w4.. I identify with 3w4's "I am what I do" so that is why I changed my profile as soon as I read that, it made so much sense.
    Are 8w7s aslo like that? And how do they act when depressed? Cause 3s go through 9ish behavior when unhealthy and that makes sense
    I'm pretty sure you aren't what you do. Just wait a while and you'll find you do lots of different stuff. I've done lots of things, had lots of jobs, but I never called myself a librarian, or a welder, or a Supervisor. I always called myself a guy doing that stuff, not being it.

    That Great Wall pic looks pretty 8w7. It is solid and, for a person walking along the top, it leads to adventure.

    Normally, I'm pretty irrepressible, but when I get depressed, I just shut down. I "hide". I stop answering the phone or emails for a day or four, depending on how long I can go without having to interact with people. Then, I bounce back. I think it is some form of recharging, but I'm not sure, because it looks a lot like depression, even to me.

    I could say that I disintegrate to a Retreating e5, and when I'm feeling great, I integrate to a Helping e2. That's one thing that seems to be correct about the enneagram, for me, at least.

    If you are an e3, then your image will be most important to you. Above everything else. I know an e3 LIE, and he's stuck in a really bad marriage to an extinguishment LII because she has educational credentials which he greatly values and she looks very good for her age. She looks as good as being married to a guy with money can buy.

    If image isn't that important to you, then maybe you are an e8. A lot depends on whether you value image or not being controlled more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    The ones I'm seeing on a lot of lists and having a hard time picturing are Fe lead 1 and ESI 2. Anybody have examples?
    ESI 2 seems a bit hard to picture for me too.

    Fe-lead 1 though, I see nothing about a social or sexual 1w2 that's contradictory to Fe-base. These have a firm if somewhat restrained effusiveness, are generally described as having a certain charisma about them, and have a passion for justice-driven causes that especially fits EIE. My big example for its inclusion is an anecdotal one, I type a really close friend of mine EIE-Ni 1w2 sx/so. But also Nelson Mandela is usually typed EIE and 1, Bin Laden is debated between EIE and IEI but is also usually typed 1, ****** is sometimes typed 1 though I think 6 is more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    What would the reason be for e9 EIE to be an impossible combination, according to so many interpretations?

    Is it the "EIE drama" versus the 9's reputation to avoid such a thing?
    If so, I should say that stereotypes are a terrible means for typing.
    The problem is that types are stereotypes by definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    If your core fear is being controlled then you are 8.
    Some of the enneagram descriptions come off ridiculous to me for this reason. Who wants to be controlled? If you're controlled that means no you. Other people control what you do = other people control what you think and feel, other people control what you think and feel = you're not a separate person from them in any sense and might as well be in a coma or dead, except it's even worse because people are parading a walking, talking body around and saying it's a human being somehow, and most people will believe it. Putting up with being controlled like that seems only fit for 6w7s and 9w1s. You can have degrees and types of control but enneagram doesn't operate in terms of degrees and types of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    The problem is that types are stereotypes by definition.
    No, your definition of 'type' is wrong.

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    Some types might fit together in ways that are not apparent when considering stereotypes instead of the true meaning of types. For instance, some claim that in order to be a 4, someone must be Fi dominant. Yet,

    Quotes from Ichazo on Type 4:

    Characteristic Fixation: Intellect
    Intellect may at first appear as a phenomenon of the head triad, or the adaptation instinct, but this is not the case. The intellect refers to reason and comprehension which the 4th point experiences the full spectrum. This ranges from having a focus on reason to a broad overview and a generalization of the world. This leads to having a deep understand at one end, to a superficial and false sense of reason at the other. The fixation of intellect leads to deceit as one is caught in a riptide ranging form reason to fallacy. The intellect is caught in Envy which can be described as for the desire of connection or understanding of another which is not present.

    Trap of the 4th point:
    Those who dwell within the 4th point on the Enneagram fall into the trap of constant analysis of the world around them. Not to be confused with the 5th points trap of observation, to be observed requires a detachment and withdrawal this is rather a search of reason for all that is around the individual. The journey that will liberate the one who is caught in the 4th point is the Way of Clarity which leads to the way of Clear and objective analysis (embodied by the 1st point of the enneagram).
    There is no reason why any introverted type could not fit this definition. Both Fi and Ti egos, especially, are prone to highly subjective over-analysis.


    This is just one example, and 4 is the type I know best - but before jumping to conclusions about type combinations that might not work, make sure you understand the true nature of each enneagram type, and how it can manifest through functions.
    This forum is a haven for art, archetypes, typology and more! Join the tribe.
    ----> ARCHETRIBE.COM <----

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    No, your definition of 'type' is wrong.
    No, it's not. Define "type" in a way that has nothing to do with stereotypes. You can't.

    noun
    1. a process, now often replaced by more advanced methods, for making metal printing plates by taking a mold of composed type or the like in papier-mâché or other material and then taking from this mold a cast in type metal.

    2. a plate made by this process.

    3. a set form; convention.

    4. Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.



    The idea of stereotypes as being some gross misrepresentation is the same as the idea of a haven as being somewhere to seek shelter. A stereotype is just a type of category that you have to simplify things to make. People have infinite variation, but to get them to fit into 16 types, you have to cut things out. And the fact that it's based on prototype and convention is revealed even in the names: ILE - Don Quixote, ESE - Victor Hugo, and on and on. Those people are chosen as the set form that all the others are based off of, but where people don't know those, they pick someone else, like LII becoming Data from Star Trek because no one seems to know Robespierre, and the stereotype drastically changing after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Some of the enneagram descriptions come off ridiculous to me for this reason. Who wants to be controlled? If you're controlled that means no you. Other people control what you do = other people control what you think and feel, other people control what you think and feel = you're not a separate person from them in any sense and might as well be in a coma or dead, except it's even worse because people are parading a walking, talking body around and saying it's a human being somehow, and most people will believe it. Putting up with being controlled like that seems only fit for 6w7s and 9w1s. You can have degrees and types of control but enneagram doesn't operate in terms of degrees and types of things.
    Well, one can't talk for others actually, there are things that are pretty subjective and are personal choice.
    There are people who doesn't really care to be under someone else control as long as they have other needs met.
    Thats the base of enneagram, what's more important to you. The thing is not "who does like or dislike x?" the thing is "is x a real fear on your life? how much does it define your decisions?" Does it really matter or are you not even concerned by that?"


    Now, what you say is total control (will, body, etc) over a person and the definition doesn't mention total control, just control.

    The thing is that one should make some introspection and think about one's life to get to know our enneagram type.
    F.e. There are fears on enneagram that I really don't share ...like having no identity or personal significance (4). Not even once I've feared to have no identity. I almost feel like its impossible to loose our "identity"...but I know it happens and I know that there are a lot of people who struggle with knowing who they are, but I dont feel identified with it at all.

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    Some type combinations that I've seen around:
    (these are not actually correlations)

    SLE,ILE: 3,6,7,8,9
    SEE,IEE: 2,3,6,7,8,9
    LIE,LSE: 1,3,6,7,8,9
    EIE,ESE: 1,2,3,6,7,8,9
    IEI,SEI: 1,2,3,4,6,9
    EII,ESI: 1,2,3,4,6,9
    ILI,SLI: 1,3,5,6,9
    LII,LSI: 1,3,5,6,9

    The primary types 3,6,9 don't seem to show any restrictions in being combined with socionics types. The secondary types do seem to have distributions that make some combinations either extremely rare or even nonexistent e.g. ILI 2. I've also never met anyone who was Ip and 6w7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    No, it's not. Define "type" in a way that has nothing to do with stereotypes. You can't.

    noun
    1. a process, now often replaced by more advanced methods, for making metal printing plates by taking a mold of composed type or the like in papier-mâché or other material and then taking from this mold a cast in type metal.

    2. a plate made by this process.

    3. a set form; convention.

    4. Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.



    The idea of stereotypes as being some gross misrepresentation is the same as the idea of a haven as being somewhere to seek shelter. A stereotype is just a type of category that you have to simplify things to make. People have infinite variation, but to get them to fit into 16 types, you have to cut things out. And the fact that it's based on prototype and convention is revealed even in the names: ILE - Don Quixote, ESE - Victor Hugo, and on and on. Those people are chosen as the set form that all the others are based off of, but where people don't know those, they pick someone else, like LII becoming Data from Star Trek because no one seems to know Robespierre, and the stereotype drastically changing after that.
    I don't have to define anything; plenty of dictionaries have done it before me, and they disagree with you. Look em up. Fact is that stereotype =/= type.

    As for people defining their understanding based on stereotypes, that's their own stupidity talking. Just because most of them haven't got a clue how to read type in the world, doesn't mean that "that's the way it works." Take this thread as an example of how not to​ approach type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    Well, one can't talk for others actually, there are things that are pretty subjective and are personal choice.
    There are people who doesn't really care to be under someone else control as long as they have other needs met.
    Thats the base of enneagram, what's more important to you. The thing is not "who does like or dislike x?" the thing is "is x a real fear on your life? how much does it define your decisions?" Does it really matter or are you not even concerned by that?"


    Now, what you say is total control (will, body, etc) over a person and the definition doesn't mention total control, just control.

    The thing is that one should make some introspection and think about one's life to get to know our enneagram type.
    F.e. There are fears on enneagram that I really don't share ...like having no identity or personal significance (4). Not even once I've feared to have no identity. I almost feel like its impossible to loose our "identity"...but I know it happens and I know that there are a lot of people who struggle with knowing who they are, but I dont feel identified with it at all.
    The problem is the idea of core fears. If someone doesn't have a core fear of not being controlled, they'd be fine with letting someone control them to the core (= total control). I don't think people who are under someone else's control are capable of making decisions. In real life, there are degrees and areas of control, like the conductor of a subway in a big city being in control of the train. I don't think 8s living in London and New York are going to be adverse to using trains just because they aren't the ones conducting them though, and that has no bearing on the state of your life in general.

    But submitting yourself to someone else like what you said means submitting your mind to them, and if your mind is submitted to them and you can't think or feel anything that they don't let you, you don't really exist, so who's having their other needs met? No one, in my opinion. It's just something like a voodoo zombie being fed and sheltered for show and use as a plaything, but it's not real. In America, it's legal to fire your employees for posting something on their Facebook that you don't like. You pretty much have to be brainwashed to put up with that, to think "my opinions don't really matter". If you think your opinions don't really matter, then your opinion of your boss can't really matter either and you're just stuck there by essence of who you've become. I'm not sure it's possible to type people like that.

    Also, it's not even that complicated to lose your identity. Just get a sufficient blow to the head. If you're afraid of that, congratulations, you can sympathize in some way with all the self-typed 4s. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can't sympathize with that because they put their identity completely outside of themselves and think that if their relationships survive, they'll survive, or something. If that's that common, I'll have to become even more cynical. No one can understand you well enough to play God and re-form you if you get brain trauma like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm pretty sure you aren't what you do. Just wait a while and you'll find you do lots of different stuff. I've done lots of things, had lots of jobs, but I never called myself a librarian, or a welder, or a Supervisor. I always called myself a guy doing that stuff, not being it.
    I understood it another way, when I am good at what I am doing, I feel much more like "myself" and allow myself to speak and present myself but otherwise my confidence level gets so bad that I shut down or become ridiculous.

    That Great Wall pic looks pretty 8w7. It is solid and, for a person walking along the top, it leads to adventure.
    Interesting point just randomly chose that. reminds me of that time you were typing Michael Fassbender based on the type of coat he was wearing and actually I agree
    Normally, I'm pretty irrepressible, but when I get depressed, I just shut down. I "hide". I stop answering the phone or emails for a day or four, depending on how long I can go without having to interact with people. Then, I bounce back. I think it is some form of recharging, but I'm not sure, because it looks a lot like depression, even to me.
    exactly the same. I even decide to "boycott" everyone as @empineer says, and go in my cave to update myself. but ESIs don't allow for that, as soon as they feel you are going in your cave they do somethings that magically brings you out or ask you to do something as if asking for themselves but only because they know I wouldn't reject their requests. somehow they always know what's up. and EIIs do a similar thing but make it more obvious that they are trying to bring you out of your cave while ESIs try to hide their motivation, but once you see that the requests they make have no benefit for them, it becomes clear why they are doing it.

    I could say that I disintegrate to a Retreating e5, and when I'm feeling great, I integrate to a Helping e2. That's one thing that seems to be correct about the enneagram, for me, at least.
    so basically since everything you said makes perfect sense I am probably the same enneagramm type as you

    from http://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Enneagram_8_The_Maverick : Eights and Threes are both competitive, and both can be dominating and drawn to leadership roles, but Threes are fundamentally concerned with receiving external validation, something which is almost entirely foreign to enneatype Eight’s mindset. Threes want to be admired; Eights want respect, even if it is grudging. Threes are much smoother and conciliatory than Eights, something which seems compromising from the standpoint of type Eight.
    Last edited by Zero; 06-21-2017 at 05:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    I don't have to define anything; plenty of dictionaries have done it before me, and they disagree with you. Look em up. Fact is that stereotype =/= type.
    Yes, but we're not just talking about types in general. Type is short for sociotype and enneatype in this case. The idea of types is itself a stereotype, because it's taking all these different types of types and simplifying them so they'll fit under the idea of "type". Strict set psychological typologies are systems of stereotypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Yes, but we're not just talking about types in general. Type is short for sociotype and enneatype in this case. The idea of types is itself a stereotype, because it's taking all these different types of types and simplifying them so they'll fit under the idea of "type". Strict set psychological typologies are systems of stereotypes.
    I believe you may be confusing archetype with stereotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    I believe you may be confusing archetype with stereotype.
    Archetypes are stereotypes given a basis in human biology.

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    Archetype vs. Stereotype

    Archetype and stereotype are sometimes confused terms. But for writers, the differences between them are significant. While one can make your story stronger, the other can ruin it. Do you know the difference?

    Let’s start with definitions. When creating characters, archetype is the model from which your character is created. In art terms, archetype is the medium: oils, chalk, or charcoal for example. But from that, the artist creates the masterpiece. From archetype, the writer builds an individual character.

    There are some common archetypes throughout literature, such as the Unwilling Hero (Frodo Baggins, Harry Potter) or the Willing Hero (Eragon, King Arthur, Luke Skywalker). There are archetypes such as the Innocent Child (Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz, or Alice from Alice in Wonderland). And frequently in storytelling, there is the Sidekick archetype (Ron Weasley, Dr. Watson, Little John), who provides counterpoint traits to the protagonist.

    Stereotypes are slightly different. A stereotyped character takes a general type of person and oversimplifies their qualities into predictable or clichéd types.

    Diana Wynn Jones did a fabulous book called The Tough Guide to Fantasyland that exposes many of the stereotypes found in fantasy writing. Such as the magical sword, the gruff dwarf with an ax, or that all elves must sing beautifully. Stereotype characters are stock and could be interchanged from one story to another without any major impact on plot.

    Although both archetype and stereotype draw from a “type” of person to create character, the difference is that archetype will use the template as a starting place, and stereotype uses it as the end point.

    For example, let’s compare Frodo Baggins with Harry Potter. They are both unwilling heroes in that neither asked for their roles in saving the world. Both would have been far happier to live out their lives without the weight and burden of being the hero. Both rely heavily on their friendships (Samfor Frodo, and Ron and Hermione for Harry), and would not have succeeded without those friends. And Frodo and Harry are both very compassionate, loyal, and determined characters.

    However, despite their similarities, their authors created in each character additional traits to give them unique identities. Harry can be arrogant and bullheaded, and he often says exactly the wrong thing. Frodo, in contrast to most of his fellow Hobbits, is curious about the world. He is also unfailingly polite, thoughtful, and selfless.

    Although built from the same archetype, Frodo and Harry Potter are each unique individuals who move beyond cliché. This makes them far more interesting, and gives them depth as well as a measure of unpredictability.

    Authors who create stereotypes do just the opposite. They rob their readers of the chance to explore the character as an individual. If the princess is always beautiful and willful and prefers the handsome commoner to the boorish prince, then the reader has nothing to gain by investing any interest in her. If the prophecy always concerns an innocent and naïve farm boy who is destined to defeat the evil ruler/wizard/all powerful trendy creature, then the end is known from the beginning.

    Great literature always begins with great characters. And great characters always rise above the stereotype to create further depth within their archetype.
    http://enchantedinkpot.livejournal.com/91935.html

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Archetypes are stereotypes given a basis in human biology.
    Archetype is the original pattern/model. Not sure if this is what you are trying to get across, or not, but people start to stereotype once they fail to acknowledge unique characteristics of an individual and confine their perception of a sociotype to a very narrow set of traits. Some people conform to a stereotype by no longer expressing themselves honestly or uniquely in order to fit into the narrow set of traits. After awhile they forget that their type is just an observable pattern, based on an archetype. It is not their identity. The potential danger of typology is that younger people might build their identity based on a stereotype and never allow themselves to grow beyond that.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Archetype is the original pattern/model. Not sure if this is what you are trying to get across, or not, but people start to stereotype once they fail to acknowledge unique characteristics of an individual and confine their perception of a sociotype to a very narrow set of traits. Some people conform to a stereotype by no longer expressing themselves honestly or uniquely in order to fit into the narrow set of traits. After awhile they forget that their type is just an observable pattern, based on an archetype. It is not their identity. The potential danger of typology is that younger people might build their identity based on a stereotype and never allow themselves to grow beyond that.
    This should be sticked!


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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    ESI 2. Anybody have examples?
    My hairdresser : P? Sorry, don't have any famous examples. Actually, I wanted to add EII 2w1 to my list, also a correlation. Someone like Mother Teresa....

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    Alpha
    LII: 1w9, 9w1, 5w6, 6w5, 5w4

    ILE: 3w2, 5w4, 5w6, 7w8, 7w6

    SEI: 9w1, 4w3, 6w7, 7w6, 4w5

    ESE: 7w6, 6w7, 2w3, 9w1, 7w8

    Beta
    LSI: 1w9, 5w6, 6w5, 8w9, 1w2

    SLE: 8w7, 8w9, 3w4, 3w2, 6w7

    IEI: 4w5, 4w3, 6w7, 6w5, 9w1

    EIE: 4w3, 8w7, 6w7, 7w6, 3w4

    Gamma
    ESI: 1w2, 2w1, 6w5, 6w7, 1w9

    SEE: 8w7, 8w9, 3w2, 2w3, 3w4

    LIE: 7w8, 3w2, 3w4, 7w6, 1w2

    ILI: 5w4, 4w5, 6w5, 5w6, 9w8

    Delta
    EII: 1w2, 9w1, 6w5, 1w9, 2w1

    IEE: 6w7, 7w6, 7w8, 4w5, 9w1

    LSE: 1w9, 1w2, 3w2, 3w4, 6w5

    SLI: 9w1, 9w8, 5w6, 6w5, 7w6

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    Maybe , I'm just EII with enneagram 6w7 ._.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Archetype is the original pattern/model. Not sure if this is what you are trying to get across, or not, but people start to stereotype once they fail to acknowledge unique characteristics of an individual and confine their perception of a sociotype to a very narrow set of traits. Some people conform to a stereotype by no longer expressing themselves honestly or uniquely in order to fit into the narrow set of traits. After awhile they forget that their type is just an observable pattern, based on an archetype. It is not their identity. The potential danger of typology is that younger people might build their identity based on a stereotype and never allow themselves to grow beyond that.
    So I actually made a thread on another forum and need to go back and follow through on it (that reminds me), but...I actually think the types aren't archetypes, at least not in the way that people think of them as personality molds. Because honestly that's not any different than a stereotype.

    Basically, without going into a lot of detail, Jung's cognitive patterns simply described a duality of the conscious with the unconscious. It is an attempt to explain how the unconscious and conscious influence one another and the different ways that it can manifest. And when typology takes that and creates archetypes and stereotypes from it, it confines that duality to specific behaviors and traits. In other words, it fills in the contents of the connections between conscious and unconscious and that's why they always end up failing; typology should just describe those connections, rather than try and define them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





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    I think there’s some general trends between cognition and enneagram but correlation is flimsy at best because the layperson misapplies theory to create a security blanket i.e. most people don’t accurately self-type. The “correlation” is based upon stereotypical traits of sociotypes paired up with Riso-Hudson pop psychology enneagram so much of it is bias confirmation.

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