ILI can be 2. EII 8 is bizarre, but since Se-devaluers chafe under authority, 8 is plausible for them (though it'd be 8w9).
IEI 1 is not only possible; it's common. IEIs are lazy fuckers true enough, but they're grand visionary lazy fuckers, and usually (hypocritically) critical of others. I know at least one IEI 1 (IEI-EII 1w2 sp/so), and an IEI with a 1 secondary fix (IEI-ESE 2w1 > 1w9 > p6w5 sx/sp), as well as several in fiction (Dumbledore, the Seventh Doctor...).
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
El oh el.Originally Posted by Aleksei
You keep this system up, not only this E6 almost everyone is saying can be all socionics types, but all of them enneagram types.IEI 1 is not only possible; it's common. IEIs are lazy fuckers true enough, but they're grand visionary lazy fuckers, and usually (hypocritically) critical of others. I know at least one IEI 1 (IEI-EII 1w2 sp/so), and an IEI with a 1 secondary fix (IEI-ESE 2w1 > 1w9 > p6w5 sx/sp), as well as several in fiction (Dumbledore, the Seventh Doctor...).
The problem with that being...?
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
Seeing you dabble in it, it is pointless. Seriously, what's the point in arguing over: this is guy can't be LII and E7, he must be some other socionics type or E-type.
You don't have a problem with it, apparently, and still you're confident to point out one is not the type she/he is, be it socionics type or E-type.
Socionics types and E-types (and X other type systems) have specific markers, that one can recognize if one has studied the systems. They can be applied in parallel. What's wrong with that?Seeing you dabble in it, it is pointless. Seriously, what's the point in arguing over: this is guy can't be LII and E7, he must be some other socionics type or E-type.
You don't have a problem with it, apparently, and still you're confident to point out one is not the type she/he is, be it socionics type or E-type.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
You overrate how much Se polrs "chafe".. For them to be a fulltime 8 at least. If you isolated some instance where they went all George McFly on Biff, then anyone can be an 8. Everyone has to do that.
Besides, it's more likely they'd ignore or be generally oblivious to begin with.
I know both are being applied in parallel, I'm not blind. What's wrong with gluing LII with E7, though ?
There was once a guy on here who claimed to be LII 3w2 later on to re-type himself ESE.
An LII 7 would be weird as fuck, but not impossible for a C-LII. I've actually seen C-LSI 7s.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
I think Krig is C-LII, at least, that's how he self-types, not to mention he embraced E1 for himself, and I, specifically, said LII not LSI. E7 is all about options, multitude of ideas, a fountainhead. I guess LSIs being Ne polr are stereotypical idea generators, in your brand of socionics, that is.
That's because they are LSI-IEE-ESFJ so/sx subtypes.
Ye, and on top of that, they are 1w2-7w6-3w2. Mystery solved. Now back to our normal programing said the young prince to a squirrel family passing by.
7 is not idea generation; that's just a behavioral assumption of it. 7 is defined, principally, as seeking stimulation -- shrinking away from introspection. LSI-Se could easily fit that.
That's because they are LSI-IEE-ESFJ so/sx subtypes.LOL, fuck you guys.Ye, and on top of that, they are 1w2-7w6-3w2. Mystery solved. Now back to our normal programing said the young prince to a squirrel family passing by.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
Yup, introverts shrinking from introspection, what else - introverts leading quite successful lives being quite restless and doing things one after another, jumping from one activity to another. To hell with their duals, they don't need them at this point.
I agree, I think you the nail on the head on this one. Generally speaking they're very different, but in the end there are still limitations for what a socionics type can be in the enneagram and vice versa.
Last edited by Raver; 06-22-2011 at 11:25 PM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I type people.And how did you prove that?
Oh, it must be true then...
Why do people throw in theses without some reasoning behind it?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
There are some pretty obviously conflicting type-combinations out there: F-ego 5, T-ego 4, IP 8, EJ 9, T-ego 2, introverted 7, etc. Things like instinct stackings, though, are probably not relegated to any one socionics type over any other, or so goes my observations.
Definitely not conflicting.
ILI/IEI can't be 8?! What are you on?IP 8
Weird, but nah, still not conflicting.T-ego 2
C-xEIs (especially C-SEIs) can easily be 7.introverted 7
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
Sure there's no one-to-one correlation but doesn't mean there's NO correlation, or that there are some types that simply WILL NOT (not CANNOT, but WILL NOT, there's a difference) in 99% of the cases, be a particular E-type because it doesn't make sense. You probably won't find many SLE 9s for instance. Or SLI E-3s. LII 3s. LII 8. EIE 5. Just because it's possible in some alternate universe (or, okay, even in our universe), doesn't make it likely.
And anyway, how might this relate to tcaud's dual-type theory? I'm wondering if EM types are more related to enneagram types than IM. just a thought.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Actually, yeah, EM types are pretty closely correlated to Enneagram. I made a correlation table once with DarkAngelFireWolf69's EM functions for socioenneagram correlations, and the enneagram results were pretty uniform across subtype.
That said, I need to revise that table a little.
-Aleksei
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
From God's mouth: "Enneagram six is crazy neurotic. Crazy neurotic can be any type."Oh, it must be true then...
Why do people throw in theses without some reasoning behind it?
REASONING PROVIDED. LET'S ORGASM IN UNISON.
[quote=sleep;785403]that would be tricky.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Based on the descriptions alone, there seems to be correlations. The principles are very different and incompatible. Maybe the worst thing about Enneagram here is that sometimes people justify sociotypes with it, like "I'm a SEI, but I'm like that because I'm E XwY".
Correlations between Socionics IEs and Types & The Enneagram
....
NF:Mostly Heart Triad
NT:Mostly Head Traid
SF:All Three
ST:Mostly Gut Triad
ISFp:9
ENTp:7
INTJ:5
ESFj:7
ITSj:1
ENFj:2
INFp:4
ESTp:8
INTp:5
ESFp:3
ISFj:1
ENTj:7
INFj:9
ESTJ:1
ISTP:9
ENFP:6
Last edited by Leader; 12-16-2011 at 10:08 AM.
Basic impressions:
9: ISFp > INFj > Ixxp
8: ESTj > ENTj > ISxj
7: Exxp > ESxj
6: Ixxj > ExTp(?)
5: INTx > INFx
4: NF > NT
3: ExTj > ESTp > INTj > INFj
2: ESFj, INFj > ExFp
1: INxj > ESTj > ISTp(?)
I'm not into enneagram much so I could be off.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
1: IJ > EJ
2: EXFj > IXFx
3: EXXx > IXXp
4: IXFx + ENFj
5: IXTx + ENTp?
6: Not ENXj (from what I've seen)
7: EXXx
8. EXXj + ESTp
9: IXXx - (INTp + ISTj) + ENXp
I personally believe that E5 comes off as mainly irrational, introverted of course and thinking, therefore IxTp. INTPs seem to be the obvious type, but the 6 wings would also work with ISTp and INTj. E1 and ISTPs seems hardly probable imho, but INTj is much more likely (even though some people can't imagine an intuitive E1, I'm not one of them). As Galen already pointed out, E9 is indeed very flexible, but I also agree that ISFp and E9 are a good combination.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
bump, bc discussion on correlations is interesting.
Wow that Aleksei guy was a fucking idiot lol
1: Rational types, more EJ than IJ, especially LSE
2: ExFj, SEI, possibly some ExFps
3: Extraverts
4: IxFx but rarely SEI
5: IxTx
6: All but more sensors since they struggle with intuition more and seek it out with answers to questions
7: ExxP
8: ExTx, ESFp
9: Mostly introverts, especially IxFx
ESE: 2, 6, 8
LSE: 8, 1, 6, 3
SLI: 5, 9, 6
SLE: 8,7,3
LSI: 1, 6, 5
IEI: 4, 9, 6
IEE: 7, 3, 4
LII: 5, 1
LIE: 8, 3
ILI: 5, 9, 4
ILE: 7, 8, 9
ESI: 2, 6, 9
SEE: 7, 2
SEI: 9, 4
EIE: 3, 2
EII: 4, 2, 1
This overview is based on my current level of observation and understanding of the types (of people IRL – fictional characters can have all kinds of combinations sometimes).
It may or may not change over time. I am expecting that it won't change, but it might.
Alpha
ESE: 1, 2, 6
SEI: 1, 2, 6, 9
LII: 5, 6, 9
ILE: 6, 7
Beta
IEI: 1, 2, 4, 6, 9
EIE: 1, 2, 6
SLE: 6, 7, 8
LSI: 6
Gamma
ESI: 4, 6, 9
SEE: 3, 6, 7
LIE: 1, 3, 6, 8
ILI: 1, 5, 6
Delta
LSE: 1, 3, 6, 8
SLI: 1, 6, 9
EII: 4, 6, 9
IEE: 3, 4, 6, 7
I thought these were good actually.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...m-Correlations
Adding here since not everyone is inclined to click links and it is an open blog
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Yeah, I thought Azeroffs correlations were good and made sense overall, though I do see more ESI 6s than 1s, and think 6 should be moved to correlation as well for them.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. I have never seen a self typed ESI on this site type anything other than core 6 so far. There might be some but I haven't noticed.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Thank you! @Aylen
I didn't know that we have something like that on the forum.
I pretty much agree except for few points, like istp unlikely to be 5. Thats not true and doesn't make sense, mosts istps score 5w6, plus Te and 1DFe are pretty much 5, and 5 has nothing to do with fear of external world and limited instincts. The basic desire of 5 is to being capable and competent, the basic fear of 5 is being useless, helpless or incapable, 5w6 is the Problem Fixer, something that really fits with the "Craftsman" type . It seems that Azeroff missed some basics of 5 and SLI. Also I don't think that its impossible for ISTx to be 6w5, but I think its unusual, specially because 6 is prone to anxiety, which contradicts the SLI relaxed approach to life.
Also:
Seems more impossible for an INTj to be 3 than 8.
Not impossible for an ENTp or ENFj to be 9w8, but its unusual.
Its more common for an ISTj to be 6 than 3.
Its more unlikely for ENFp to be 2 or 6 than 3.
Its not impossible for ESTj to be 5, but its questionable.
Its not more impossible for INFp to be 1 than for ISTp or INTp (with Fe PoLR).
Just some thoughts.
I think there is too much correlation with 1 and many things that could easily be explained by other things, really.
My list of plausible correlations, with especially common types in bold. This is partly going off what Enneagram types match up with some need expressed in or at least are non-contradictory with normal sociotype descriptions, and partly off personal experience in applying said types to real examples which gives a broader sense of how types actually manifest.
ILE: 3, 5, 6, 7
LII: 1, 3, 5, 6, 9
ESE: 1, 2, 3, 6, 7
SEI: 2, 4, 6, 9
EIE: 1, 3, 4, 6, 8
IEI: 4, 5, 6, 9
SLE: 3, 6, 7, 8
LSI: 1, 3, 5, 6, 8
LIE: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8
ILI: 5, 6, 9
SEE: 3, 6, 7, 8
ESI: 1, 3, 4, 6, 8
IEE: 3, 4, 6, 7, 9
EII: 1, 4, 6, 9
LSE: 1, 3, 6
SLI: 5, 6, 9
I mostly agree with Slugabed's criticisms of Azeroff's list, with the exception that 8 seems to contradict Se-PoLR where I see nothing about the 3 type that inherently contradicts LII. Especially of the "calm dry consummate professional" self-preservation variety, and even moreso if 3w4 which adds an intellectual bent.
6 is extremely variable and is the only type I could conceivably see not contradicting anything, every other enneatype would contradict at least one aspect of some types.
Last edited by Nanooka; 06-23-2017 at 07:39 AM.
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