Enneagram / Socionics Type Correlations

[Airman]

I´d like to ask forum members especially Ammonius, Ashton and others who comment on the probable relations between these two systems.

So far I have a few tendencies myself but not a complete list of them yet, so I won´t write yet.

But I´d like to know: don´t you think it´s possible an LIE E3? Or an EIE E2? Or even SLI E1? And what would be the type(s) most likely for an E3?

[Aleksei]

As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.

I'm surprised to hear you ask if an LIE could correlate to E3... from what I know of LIE, 3 is one of its best correlations. Same with EIE and 2.

[Airman]

As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.

I'm surprised to hear you ask if an LIE could correlate to E3... from what I know of LIE, 3 is one of its best correlations. Same with EIE and 2.

it´s because Ammonius was saying it was not probable in other thread.

I still think ENTJ goes well for E3 as well as ESTJ and ISTJ, and even ESFJ and ENFJ. Basically any EJ type.

[Creepy-male]

Enneagram => Basic fear, motive, issue, passion, vice, virtue as root principle
Socionics => Cognitive preference among 8 psychological functions as root principle

You can only correlate the two where cognitive preference is related to a core motivation

If you can show how to do this and how it works, then you've successfully linked the two.

[Galen]

As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.

I dunno man, I'd be horribly surprised if I met an E7 INTp.

[Aleksei]

I dunno man, I'd be horribly surprised if I met an E7 INTp.

It'd be weird as fuck, but it's not impossible.

[Creepy-male]

It'd be weird as fuck, but it's not impossible.

E7s come about from a need for the person to entertain or look after themselves. It's less than unlikely that an ILI would go about this in an E7 way (looking around in the outside world for new distractions) when they're cognitively much more suited to E5-ish independence/retreating into their own private mental world.

There are a bunch of overlaps as to what sorts of family environments breed what sorts of enneagram types, and it's these ambiguities that causes certain sociotypes to map to certain enneatypes. In practical, real-world terms, I would think that it actually is impossible for INTp to produce an E7 type, even if in technical terms it is not.

Where are you coming from saying that "any sociotype can be any etype", out of curiosity?

[Aleksei]

E7s come about from a need for the person to entertain or look after themselves. It's less than unlikely that an ILI would go about this in an E7 way (looking around in the outside world for new distractions) when they're cognitively much more suited to E5-ish independence/retreating into their own private mental world.

There are a bunch of overlaps as to what sorts of family environments breed what sorts of enneagram types, and it's these ambiguities that causes certain sociotypes to map to certain enneatypes. In practical, real-world terms, I would think that it actually is impossible for INTp to produce an E7 type, even if in technical terms it is not.

Where are you coming from saying that "any sociotype can be any etype", out of curiosity?

Well, I'm still a bit of an amateur on Socionics so I could be wrong, but based on my experience with MBTI the fact that cognitive processes measure the way you think rather than what motivates you, means it is possible to have a core motivation that apparently contradicts your cognitive processes. For example an ENTP (or ILE) could be domineering and forceful, but very mentally disorganized. Not sure how the inclusion of conscience blocks in Socionics affects this though, so I might be wrong to draw out the comparison.

[Creepy-male]

Not sure how the inclusion of conscience blocks in Socionics affects this though, so I might be wrong to draw out the comparison.

Conscience blocks as in ego, super-ego, super-id, id?

Well, that's actually a very interesting thought. For example, your domineering, forceful ILE can't actually exist, as ILEs/ENTps have "Role Se"; in other words, due to their pursuit of "potential" and abstract stuff (base Ne), they naturally do not pursue material "stuff" or any sort of leverage for exerting their willpower over others (Se).

It's not just limited to ego/super-ego. You're similarly unlikely to find a domineering, forceful SEI (or SLI, for that matter), because Ignoring Se implies avoiding exerting your willpower to get people to do things, which is antithetical to coaxing them to do something with some sort of personally satisfying reward.

[Aleksei]

Ahhhh, I see. So I suppose then an ENTP 8w7 (which is not too uncommon) would be guaranteed to be something other than ILE then?

Yes, those conscience blocks.

[Gilly]

Well the thing is, we tend to choose coping strategies that fit our strengths; when people are put under pressure, they rely on what they are best at. So just based on human nature, it's probably nigh on impossible for a person's core strategy in life to be out of alignment with their natural strengths.

[Creepy-male]

I don't like that word "guaranteed", lol. I'm kind of hesitant to say that being a certain etype precludes a certain sociotype, even though I've been arguing precisely that point

But yes, I would think it highly unlikely that your 8w7 would be an ILE in Socionics, MBTI ENTP or not.

[Airman]

Good point. Enneagram can sometimes interfere with socionics relationships for that reason though. For instance, as an E1 - I feel responsible to do everything, to take charge over every situation and control my own reactions to it. This can be detrimental to me, because I have a hard time trusting my dual (or anyone else) to take care of what they're best at. One thing Fe is great at, is helping IxTjs to experience various emotions and deal with them, but a stressed E1 is going to be very resistant to that, choosing instead anger as the only emotion that gets through. I don't like feeling gooshy and weak, even when I need to, and it's safe. It's too overwhelming and chaotic, like I'm drowning. My enneagram type matches my type, but also puts up some barriers against my dual. KWIM?

I suppose you´re an E1 - ISTJ?

[squark]

I suppose you´re an E1 - ISTJ?

yeah.

[07490]

[quote=Aleksei;682074]As the two systems describe two different portions of a person's personality, it is possible to be literally any type combination between the two systems.[quote]

NO

I'm surprised to hear you ask if an LIE could correlate to E3... from what I know of LIE, 3 is one of its best correlations. Same with EIE and 2.

I am doubting E3 LIE, they are E8 who looks like E3 sometimes tho, and don't think so for EIE 2.

[Airman]

these are tendencies of enneagram types:

E1 - are generally ISTJ or ESTJ, rarely INTJ

E2 - ISFJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, INFJ

E3 - ENTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ESTP

E4 - ENFJ, INFP

E5 - INTJ, INTP, ENTP

E6 - ESTP, ISTJ, ISTP

E7 - ESFJ, ENTP, ESTP

E8 - ENTJ, ESTP, ISTJ

E9 - ISTP, ENTP, INTJ, PRACTICALLY ANY SOCIONICS TYPE...

[Creepy-male]

these are tendencies of enneagram types:

E1 - are generally ISTJ or ESTJ, rarely INTJ

E2 - ISFJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, INFJ

E3 - ENTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ESTP

E4 - ENFJ, INFP

E5 - INTJ, INTP, ENTP

E6 - ESTP, ISTJ, ISTP

E7 - ESFJ, ENTP, ESTP

E8 - ENTJ, ESTP, ISTJ

E9 - ISTP, ENTP, INTJ, PRACTICALLY ANY SOCIONICS TYPE...

My take....

E1 - ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ (Rational Sensory most likely)

E2 - ISFJ, ESFJ, INFJ, ISFP (Introverted Fi Ethicals and Alpha SF most likely)

E3 - ENTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ENTP, ESTJ (Extroverted types most likely)

E4 - INFP, ISFP, INFJ (Introverted Ethicals most likely)

E5 - INTJ, INTP, ENTP (Introverted NT most likely)

E6 - ISTJ, ENTP, ESTJ, ENTJ (Extroverted NT and Rational ST most likely)

E7 - ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, ENFP (Dominant or -- Creative functions, most likely)

E8 - ISTP, ESTP, ESTJ, ENTJ (Dominant or functions, most likely)

E9 - ISTP, INFP, ISFP, ISFJ, INFJ, INTP (IP Temperament, Fi-dominant most likely)

and in reverse.....

ISFP - 4w3, 4w5, 2w3, 9w1
ESFJ - 2w3, 3w2, 2w1
INTJ - 5w6, 6w5
ENTP - 7w6, 6w7, 5w6, 6w5

INFP - 4w3, 4w5
ENFJ - 3w4, 3w2
ISTJ - 1w2, 2w1
ESTP - 7w8, 8w7

INTP - 5w6, 6w5, 5w4
ENTJ - 3w4, 8w7
ISFJ - 2w3, 2w1, 9w1, 1w9
ESFP - 7w6, 3w2

ISTP - 8w9, 9w8
ESTJ - 8w9, 1w9, 1w2, 3w2, 6w5
INFJ - 4w5, 4w3, 2w1, 1w2, 1w9, 9w1
ENFP - 7w6, 3w2

[Airman]

ah you damn ****** you make me feel like an idiot lol

[717495]

Einstein was a 5 ENTp. Until he DIED! OMG

[Creepy-male]

ah you damn ****** you make me feel like an idiot lol

lol, I wasn't even trying....

[Pa3s]

That's a really good list, HaveLucidDreamz.

[electric sheep]

my version:

ISFP - 9w1, 6w7
ESFJ - 2w3, 3w2, 2w1, 6w7
INTJ - 5w6, 6w5, 1w9, 9w1
ENTP - 7w6, 6w7, 5w6, 6w5, 7w8 (really, any head type)

INFP - 4w3, 4w5, 6w5, 6w7
ENFJ - 3w4, 3w2, 4w3
ISTJ - 1w2, 6w5
ESTP - 7w8, 8w7, 3w2, 9w8

INTP - 5w6, 6w5, 5w4
ENTJ - 3w4, 8w7, 5w6
ISFJ - 2w1, 9w1, 1w9, 1w2
ESFP - 7w6, 3w2, 2w3

ISTP - 9w8, 6w5, 5w6
ESTJ - 8w9, 1w9, 1w2, 3w2, 6w5
INFJ - 4w5, 2w1, 1w9, 9w1
ENFP - 7w6, 3w4, 2w3

My thinking is that unless you're including one or more of the 3/6/9 types with each socio type, then you're not being complete because these are the most common types. 4 and 5 are the rarest types, so it's highly unlikely that any type would correlate with only one of those and not one of the 3/6/9s.

Also I think type 2 of both wings would rate high on Fi and nothing else, probably any kind of xxFJ for sure and probably ExFP. I'd narrow it down to ESFx, IxFJ, ENFx. IxFP just doesn't seem too likely, they're probably just 9s or 6s instead.

[Airman]

my version:


My thinking is that unless you're including one or more of the 3/6/9 types with each socio type, then you're not being complete because these are the most common types. 4 and 5 are the rarest types, so it's highly unlikely that any type would correlate with only one of those and not one of the 3/6/9s.

WTF? HERE WHERE I LIVE 4s and 5s are like a virus, they´re all around the place. 1s and 8s are quite rare here. And I´ve found that in other regions of the same country it´s different, there are few 3s for example. I don´t agree with this.

[Creepy-male]

Si-base 6? What would that even look like? It just seems really, really... weird.

EDIT

Weird entries, imo:

Also, 7w8 ENTp, and the lack of an E3 option. One very close friend is an ILE 3, and a schoolmate of mine potentially was an E3, but don't hold me to that.

E1 ENFj

E9 ISTj

[electric sheep]

Si-base 6? What would that even look like? It just seems really, really... weird.

quieter ones that openly seem more nervous, or more openly loyal and extraverted ones. 6 has a lot of variety.

WTF? HERE WHERE I LIVE 4s and 5s are like a virus, they´re all around the place. 1s and 8s are quite rare here. And I´ve found that in other regions of the same country it´s different, there are few 3s for example. I don´t agree with this.

And how do you determine that they are 5s and 4s? 6 and 3 are far more likely than either, based on what I've heard elsewhere, and both 6 and 3 are easy to mistake for other types. It's possible that you're mistaken, but there's really no way for either of us to know. Your disagreement is noted.

E1 ENFj

E9 ISTj

I guess the people I was thinking of could actually be 3s and 6s. I'm not really sure. ehhhh... I'll change it. I was thinking my stepmom is ENFJ 1w2, because she reminds me a lot of Arianna Huffington (1w2, possible ENFj), but I dunno if she's the type I think she is.

[Creepy-male]

quieter ones that openly seem more nervous, or more openly loyal and extraverted ones. 6 has a lot of variety.

Ok, I didn't ask my question right.

How does Si-base E6 work? It just seems self-conflicting. How can you couple a mentally overactive etype with a very sensory-focused Socionics type?

I'm not shooting your ideas down, btw, I'm just curious.

[electric sheep]

Well 6s are supposedly out of touch with their own intelligence, they sorta mold their ideas based on whatever system of ideas they attach themselves to. It's not so much Si base, but weak Te/Ti. But maybe being a 6 has nothing to do with the functions and it's just a loyalty/trust thing.

[Creepy-male]

Roger, I'm with you now

[electric sheep]

One thing that I still don't know what to do with is that Jerry Seinfeld, Rachel Maddow, and Natalie Portman are all supposed to be 1w2.

[Creepy-male]

Really? I've seen Seinfeld typed as 9w1. I remember an Andrew Denton interview, and one thing he was saying that stuck out to me was where he was talking about having his parents inside of him whenever he acts. That seemed Niney enough, especially from an sx/sp (the site had him as INFJ 9w1 sx/sp, IIRC)

[electric sheep]

yea that sounds like a 1. How else do you think 1s can stay such sticklers for rules? You gotta have that internal authority figure ready to berate you if you do anything wrong.

edit: plus it makes sense for a 1w2's internal authority figure to have a more human face than a 1w9's.

[Creepy-male]

yea that sounds like a 1. How else do you think 1s can stay such sticklers for rules? You gotta have that internal authority figure ready to berate you if you do anything wrong.

Clearly it can be interpreted either way

Your way is probably less loose than mine.

[Galen]

Well 6s are supposedly out of touch with their own intelligence, they sorta mold their ideas based on whatever system of ideas they attach themselves to. It's not so much Si base, but weak Te/Ti. But maybe being a 6 has nothing to do with the functions and it's just a loyalty/trust thing.

I wouldn't say 6's are out of touch with their intelligence so much as they are out of touch with their own confidence. I consider myself to be an intelligent person, but I know that having to apply that intelligence sometimes makes me nervous if I'm not totally confident in what I'm saying.


Also what would anybody know about there being an E8 ISTp out there? It seems like a weird combination to me but I'd like to hear other opinions on it.

[Crispy]

8w9's are called The Bear. I could imagine an SLI who considers himeself a Bear.

[Creepy-male]

8w9's are called The Bear. I could imagine an SLI who considers himeself a Bear.

I think maximus from gladiator seems like an ISTP 8w9, the way he is a farmer and wants to do his duty and go back to his family and live an idyllic existence seems delta and Si, but his power and more earthy nature fits perfectly as a 8w9. Naturally leader, respectful, earthy, calm, etc.

Further commodos seems like a beta gone wrong, which is the opposing quadra of delta; he's whiny, emotional, ambitious, influential, melancholic, passionate expressions (AM I NOT MERCIFUL!!!).

Further at the end of the story, he gives Rome back to being a republic from an empire.... Quadra Progression of Delta (Aristocratic) --> Alpha (Democratic)

[electric sheep]

8w9 is a tricky one. The only 8w9s I know personally are LSEs, so I'd hesitate to equate it with any other type. I don't know very many 8s actually. I'd imagine SLEs make good 8w9s though, SLI is entirely possible.

I know Shaq is a 8w9 for sure, so whatever type he is...

[Gilly]

Good point. Enneagram can sometimes interfere with socionics relationships for that reason though. For instance, as an E1 - I feel responsible to do everything, to take charge over every situation and control my own reactions to it. This can be detrimental to me, because I have a hard time trusting my dual (or anyone else) to take care of what they're best at. One thing Fe is great at, is helping IxTjs to experience various emotions and deal with them, but a stressed E1 is going to be very resistant to that, choosing instead anger as the only emotion that gets through. I don't like feeling gooshy and weak, even when I need to, and it's safe. It's too overwhelming and chaotic, like I'm drowning. My enneagram type matches my type, but also puts up some barriers against my dual. KWIM?

Any fixation, no matter what its relation to your sociotype or your dual's, is going to get in the way of having a healthy relationship until it is properly controlled/integrated.

[squark]

Any fixation, no matter what its relation to your sociotype or your dual's, is going to get in the way of having a healthy relationship until it is properly controlled/integrated.

Sure. No question about that. Just pointing out how the enneatype can be an additional layer between people, regardless of how frequently it correlates to sociotype. And a bad week sort of leaked out here, lol.

[Aleksei]

8w9 is a tricky one. The only 8w9s I know personally are LSEs, so I'd hesitate to equate it with any other type. I don't know very many 8s actually. I'd imagine SLEs make good 8w9s though, SLI is entirely possible.

8w9 means sly, manipulative sonuvabitch. Not sure SLEs make a good fit (too brash), but LIEs certainly do.

[Gilly]

IMO:

ESE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8
LII: 1, 3, 5, 6, 9
ILE: 3, 5, 6, 7, 9
SEI: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9

EIE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8
LSI: 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9
SLE: 3, 6, 7, 8
IEI: 3, 4, 6, 9

LIE: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8
ESI: 1, 2, 6, 8
SEE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8
ILI: 4, 5, 6

LSE: 1, 3, 6, 7?, 8
EII: 1, 3, 4, 6, 9
IEE: 2, 3, 6, 7, 9
SLI: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9