ESE, 8? LSE, 7?
The rest looks about right.
ESE, 8? LSE, 7?
The rest looks about right.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Yeah. ESE 8s aren't common, but my grandfather was one, 8w7 sx/so. He could have been a 3w2; that's the only other possibility.
LSE 7s I'm not entirely sure on.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Was he image-conscious at all, even secretly? If so, he was a 3. 8s don't give a a shit about what others think of them.Originally Posted by Gilly
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
My ESFj dad is very much so E8w9. E8 seems like a very Ej enneatype IMO.
Here's my super tentative, unjustified and speculative enneagram table:
ENTp: 3 5 6 7 9?
ISFp: 1? 2 3? 4? 6 9
ESFj: 1? 2 3 6 7 8
INTj: 1? 5 6 9?
ESTp: 3 5? 6? 7 8
INFp: 1? 2? 4 6 9?
ENFj: 1? 2 3 6 7 8
ISTj: 1 3 5 6
ESFp: 2? 3 6 7 8?
INTp: 1? 5 6 9?
ENTj: 1 3 6 7? 8
ISFj: 1 4 6 9
ENFp: 2? 3 6 7 9
ISTp: 1 2? 5 6 9
ESTj: 1 2? 3 6 7? 8 9?
INFj: 1 2 4 6 9
The problem I see with 8s and Fe is that 8s are supposed to be completely out of touch and unaffected by emotions. 8s seem the *least* open to Fe of all the types.
This seems like the opposite of Ti seeking:True intimacy however does not come easily or naturally to Eights. Soft and tender emotions tend to make Eights feel "weak," and, more to the point, intimacy requires Eights to lower their defenses and thereby become vulnerable. Vulnerability, in turn, triggers the Eight's fear of being controlled. Thus, intimate relations are often the arena in which the Eight's control issues are most obviously played out.
So I don't see 8 for Fe ego types. Fe leading just implies the expression of more emotion and more openness to emotion than an 8 would ever allow themselves to have.Eights frequently consider "morality" to be just one more means by which society attempts to exert illegitimate control over them. It is, they reason, the weapon that the constitutionally weak use to keep the naturally strong "in line." Eights, like counterphobic Sixes, are suspicious of rules, and often take an oppositional stance to authority.
The saddest ESFj
...
100% agreement. Basically 8 equals Te imo. Maybe on paper any socionic type can be any enneagram type but things usally look better on paper than when you see them in reality. Another opinion I hold is 2 equals Fe.
8's move in the direction of growth when they act more like 2's, but 2's act stressed when they act more like 8's. 2's move in the direction of growth when they act like 4's who are highly empathetic but far less mushy.
Admittedly, I can not explain myself in enneagram. I can see why INTJ, ISTP and INTP would be 5's, especially since 5's move toward 8 for growth. The Te connection makes sense for INTP and ISTP. However if I have come across enneagramtype institute basically associating 5's with Ti.
Another opinion is Se equates to 3, but if Se is the secondary function (i.e. ISTJ, ISFJ), then they are 6's.
Unfortunatley, to think both verbally and numerically seems like a physical impossibility, its like shitting and vomitting at the same time, its gets messy.
It doesn't really work like that, To be honest, I would avoid correlation with Infromation element and E-types. EXE can be 8, like victim, XIE can be 8, or SE ego, who's contrary of E-9 lifestyle can be 9, like XSI.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
I would agree with you in the case of 3/6/9, simply because they have the widest ranges of personality. I know plenty of super chill ESTps that are 9w8, for instance. It's not that contradictory. In the case of other enneagram types, like 8, they are a bit easier to classify, or at the very least, rule out a few types.
Last edited by electric sheep; 08-18-2010 at 08:19 PM.
The saddest ESFj
...
1w9: INTj
1w2: ESTj
2w1: INFj
2w3: ENFp
3w2: ESFp
3w4: ENTp
4w3: INFj
4w5: INFp
5w4: INTp
5w6: INTj
Cp6w5: ENTj
Prussian 6w5: ISTj
Phobic 6w5: INFj
Cp6w7: ENFj
Prussian 6w7: ISFj
Phobic 6w7: ENFp
7w6: ESFj
7w8: ISTp
8w7: ESTp
8w9: ISTj
9w8: ESFj
9w1: INFp
Last edited by tire iron; 08-19-2010 at 03:46 PM.
Trademark types
One-ISTj
Two-ESFj
Three-ENFj
Four-INFp
Five-INTj-INTp
Six-ISFj,ESTj
seven-ESFp,ENTp
Eight-ENTj,ESTp
Nine-ISFp,INFj
Listing the most common Enneagram types for all 16 socionics
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
I was wondering about this page on Enneagram 4, which includes Marlon Brando and Kate Winslet among the "Famous 4s", yet from what I know Marlon Brando and Kate Winslet are typed SLE.
Enneagram Personality Type 4: The Artist
This site lists Marlon Brando within the SLE category:
Socionics : Famous Sensing Logical Extraverts (SLE)
This site lists Kate Winslet within the SLE category:
Socionics Visual Identification Gallery
So is it possible?
Didn't see this earlier. I haven't updated this list in awhile, so it might stand for some tweaks.
Alpha (α)
Si-ESFj: 2w3, 8w9, 9w8
Fe-ESFj: 2w1, 2w3, 3w2, 7w6
Ne-INTj: 5w6, 1w9
Ti-INTj: 5w6, 9w1
Ne-ENTp: 7w6, 3w2, 3w4
Ti-ENTp: 5w6, 7w6, 6w7, 3w4
Si-ISFp: 4w3, 4w5, 9w1, 9w8
Fe-ISFp: 4w3, 2w3, 9w1
Beta (β)
Ni-ENFj: 7w8, 8w7, 8w9
Fe-ENFj: 7w6, 9w8, 3w2
Se-ISTj: 6w7, 1w9, 5w6
Ti-ISTj: 5w6, 6w5, 1w2
Se-ESTp: 7w6, 3w2, 8w7
Ti-ESTp: 7w8, 3w4, 8w7
Ni-INFp: 4w3, 4w5, 6w5
Fe-INFp: 3w4, 4w3, 9w1
Gamma (γ)
Ni-ENTj: 7w8, 8w7, 3w2
Te-ENTj: 7w6, 6w7
Se-ISFj: 6w5, 6w7
Fi-ISFj: 6w5, 1w9
Se-ESFp: 7w6, 7w8
Fi-ESFp: 6w7, 7w6
Ni-INTp: 5w4
Te-INTp: 5w6
Delta (δ)
Si-ESTj: 8w9, 9w8, 3w2
Te-ESTj: 1w9, 3w2, 8w9
Ne-INFj: 6w5, 9w1
Fi-INFj: 9w1, 1w2, 1w9
Ne-ENFp: 7w6, 6w7
Fi-ENFp: 7w6, 6w7, 2w3
Si-ISTp: 9w8, 9w1
Te-ISTp: 5w6, 9w1, 9w8
Is this list based solely on observations or are there some guesses/hypotheses in there as well?
Also I like how all of your type lists begin with Pi-EXXjs haha
Mostly just observations. I should add 6w5 to Fi-ENFp.
Haha. They're usually supposed to begin with Je-EJ, then go Pi-EJ » Ji-IJ » Pe-IJ » Pe-EP » Ji-EP » Pi-IP » Je-IP… but somehow this one slipped past the standard.Also I like how all of your type lists begin with Pi-EXXjs haha
Maybe add 9w1 too for both subtypes.
Well even on the socionix gallery everything starts with Pi-EXXj
I just thought that Pe-EXXp was 'traditionally' the first type in lists. Then again I heard that on wikisocion so w/e
EDIT: This just occured to me, but does anyone think there could be some weak correlation between stacking and sociotype?
Oh, on the type list it starts out Je-EJ.Well even on the socionix gallery everything starts with Pi-EXXj
Not in mine, buster.I just thought that Pe-EXXp was 'traditionally' the first type in lists.
That makes sense. I'd imagine then that perhaps it's more likely that the enneagram typing is wrong in those cases.
Here's another example of someone [Gwen Stefani in this case] that is known to be SLE in Socionics being categorized as a 4 in the Enneagram:
The Enneagram Blogspot: Type 4: Identity-Seeker
And she's categorized under SLE here:
Socionics Visual Identification Gallery
Yet on this site she's in the video gallery of Enneagram 6:
Enneagram Personality Type 6: The Doubter
This site seems to make more sense regarding celebrities and Enneagram:
7 - Enneagram Type Seven: The Enthusiast
It categorized Kate Winslet as a 7 which is more compatible with SLE [in the sense that it's more probable for an SLE to be a 7 (or 8 or 3) rather than a 4, which is what I'm learning...].
Stefani, Winslet, Brando, etc. as enneatype 4 would seem awfully bizarre to me. Stefani and Winslet make sense to me as 7—probably the most common enneatype for ESTp imo. Brando, I'm not sure about him… instinct triad seems like it could be right, of which only 8 seems sensible… but then 8 doesn't quite fit for some reason. So hmm.
"Prussian"? What's that supposed to mean?
Prussians are often depicted as authoritarian, militaristic, and extremely orderly, a characterization based on the unswerving obedience of their army.
Source: The American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, 3rd Ed.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
That´s interesting. Sounds reasonable. But in 9 years of Enneagram I never saw this type of E6...'PRUSSIAN E6'... in my view they´d fall under category Counter-Phobic. Because they counteract their fear with militarism, order and obedience. To me this is probably just s subtype of CP E6.
I´m copying this if you don´t mind, to a brazilian enneagram forum I participate in and we´re discussing relations of Socionics types to Enneagram because some people there began to get interested about socionics. This list is the most consistent I´ve seen on this thread.
Ashton
That chart does not include me as INFj 2w1
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh, they mean literally Prussian-like. Okay. I've never seen categories of type 6 other than phobic and counterphobic. Hmm.
It´s okay that this type of 6 is noticed and taken into account but sometimes people involved in Enneagram, Socionics, MBTI, and personality typologies in general just like to complicate matters more, to sound knowledgeable.
It ends up complicating things further. The 'Prussian E6' is just too similar to an E1 sp, that the two will probably be taken one for the other most of the time = innacurate typing.
The need of a Prussian E6 sure confuses me.
I've always thought the same way. Isn't a Prussian 6 just a phobic so-firster or any phobic 6 in so-ish situations?The need of a Prussian E6 sure confuses me.
phobic 6w5 sp/so/sx (tri-type: 6w5/1w9/4w5)
Fi-ESI
My observations:
E1 - ISTj, ESTj
E2 - ESFj, ISFj
E3 - ENFj
E4 - INFp, INFj
E5 - INTj, INTp
E6 - ISTp, ISFp
E7 - ESFp, ESTp
E8 - ENTp, ENTj
E9 - ENFp, INFp
Thanks.
Characteristic Types
1 - ISTj
2 - ISFj
3 - ESFp
4 - INFp
5 - INTp
6 - ESTj
7 - ENTp
8 - ESTp
9 - INFj
Characteristic Functions
1 -
2 -
3 -
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
I'd say ESFj for "Characteristic 2". Also,>
Nice food for thought, though, thanks
Enneagram vs. Socionics
Let the battle begin!
Well, there has been some debate recently that only certain socionics types could be an enneagram type. Like only IEEs are 6w7 or 7w6 for instance and ILIs are usually 5w6. Is this always the case? Are socionics types always limited to a certain enneagram? Can an ESE be a 5w6 for instance and a ILI be a 7w8? Perhaps, enneagram is a way to differentiate people between a certain type that behave or think differently. Let's Discuss.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
No, they are not limited to certain Enneagram types. Those are two different systems which exist independently of each other. That means you can actually score every combination possible. However, since both systems deal with personality traits, it wouldn't be plausible if someone got a very contradicting combination, like ILI and E7. So there is always a range of standard combinations and any others might be more or less contradicting and therefore unlikely to happen if the questions were answered honestly.
The only E-type that I've proven can fit any socionics type is the 6.
And how did you prove that?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Because everybody stutters or stumbles over words sometimes.And how did you prove that?
Bingo.Because everybody stutters or stumbles over words sometimes.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
MegaDoomer's got it.
Reason is a whore.
Extroverted extroverts aren't doubly withdrawn enneatypes, and vice-versa for introverted introverts and double-assertive enneatypes. I'd further have a pretty tough time imagining an extrovert of any kind being 4w5 (unless they have a high-assertive secondary fix, like 8w7).
Other than that it's all probably fair game.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I dunno, I doubt you'd see an ILI as a 2w3 or a 3w4. LOL
Or an SLE as a 5.
Or an IEI as a 1.
Or an EII as an 8.
IEI-Fe 4w3
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