Immortality

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Normally I'd say yes, but death is paradoxically powerful. When somebody dies, it's kind of like an area of effect spell on all of reality. It changes and uplifts the rest of reality on a fundamental level, even though the ego/individual ceases to exist. The main issue I have with this, is I would want to feel myself changing, and death is the ultimate change. And Immortality will be no good if it's only for the super rich and if we're still in so many shackles and prisons (of our own minds)- I'd want to do amazing jew sage-y things and still live forever.

[Skepsis]

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[mfckr]

I think immortality is inevitable, and no spiritual or ethical arguments are going to stop it once the technology becomes available (technological fatalism ftw). It's conceivable that our parents may more or less be the last generation to die from 'old age'.

There'll be a lot of interesting social implications from this re: family structures, child rearing, the disappearance of the elderly, etc. Also the prospect of death will become far more terrifying to people than it is now, which may contribute to decreased rates of violence as well as other forms of life-threatening negligence.

Death needn't be 'natural'—if anything, human history is a saga of striving against and overcoming 'nature', so this'll just be yet another stride in that direction. Rendering death a choice, not a biological inevitability.

[Skepsis]

.

[Aylen]

I am not afraid of dying and I am looking forward to changing form, again, even though I am pretty happy with my current form. Living in the same form for too long without super magical powers is kinda boring.

If you believe in past lives then it all starts to feel like the same old story explored from every angle, depending on what your interest is in this human reality. I want to live in another dimension next....

The theme is exhausting.

[mfckr]

Is immortality via technology not just the "elixir of life" of our generation? I've noticed it's a very popular idea among those who believe in the Singularity. I don't know, maybe it could happen, as opposed to elixirs of the past, but consciousness itself is largely still a mystery, and while our brains certainly have properties like that of a computer, it still is not one. A computer that uploads your consciousness would certainly resemble you, but is still not you. It may even be a cheapened, low quality version of you, like when people make mp3s from master tapes. I cannot help but feel that the avoidance of death is forever out of our reach.

We're sooner likely to achieve life extension/eventual immortality via methods of genomic engineering & other biomedical interventions. Uploading our minds to computers is probably much further out, given what you mention re: intractable epistemics of mind/consciousness.

[Aylen]

Is immortality via technology not just the "elixir of life" of our generation? I've noticed it's a very popular idea among those who believe in the Singularity. I don't know, maybe it could happen, as opposed to elixirs of the past, but consciousness itself is largely still a mystery, and while our brains certainly have properties like that of a computer, it still is not one. A computer that uploads your consciousness would certainly resemble you, but is still not you. It may even be a cheapened, low quality version of you, like when people make mp3s from master tapes. I cannot help but feel that the avoidance of death is forever out of our reach.

I'm waiting in my cold cell when the bell begins to chime
Reflecting on my past life and it doesn't have much time
'Cause at five o'clock they take me to the Gallows pole
The sands of time for me are running low...
Running low...

When the priest comes to read me the last rites
I take a look through the bars at the last sights
Of a world that has gone very wrong for me
Can it be that there's some sort of error
Hard to stop the surmounting terror
Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?

Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming
It's not easy to stop from screaming
The words escape when I try to speak
Tears flow but why am I crying?
After all I'm not afraid of dying
Don't I believe that there never is an end?

As the guards march me out to the courtyard
Somebody cries from a cell "God be with you!"
If there's a God, why has let me go?
As I walk all my life drifts before me
And though the end is near I'm not sorry
Catch my soul it's willing to fly away

Mark my words believe my soul lives on
Don't worry now that I have gone
I've gone beyond to see the truth
When you know that your time is close at hand
Maybe then you'll begin to understand
Life down here is just a strange illusion

Yeah!
Hallowed be thy name!
Yeah!
Hallowed be thy name!

[Aylen]

It is a strange idea for me to even think that people cannot make peace with their own deaths. I have recognized certain "exit points" that I chose not to take throughout my life. I just know that when I die I will be fine with it and probably welcome it. I think I learned this from my mom (LSI) step-dad (ILI) and my ex (ILI). they were kind of fearless of death, which helped me to be fearless as well.

Edit: In most stories immortals are sterile and if you were one of the first you would just have to watch people you love die as you stayed the same. fuck that!

[yeves]

our universe isn't infinite in time - it had a beginning and it will have an end - thus immortality is not something feasible. those who want to live forever, sorry, your "forever" is only temporary ;P

[Aylen]

You would get over it eventually.

Only to experience it over and over and over until the end of time. I would hand someone the sword to take my head and hopefully that would end all this immortal business. It might be easier for a logical type.

[Skepsis]

I'm waiting in my cold cell when the bell begins to chime
Reflecting on my past life and it doesn't have much time
'Cause at five o'clock they take me to the Gallows pole
The sands of time for me are running low...
Running low...

When the priest comes to read me the last rites
I take a look through the bars at the last sights
Of a world that has gone very wrong for me
Can it be that there's some sort of error
Hard to stop the surmounting terror
Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?

Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming
It's not easy to stop from screaming
The words escape when I try to speak
Tears flow but why am I crying?
After all I'm not afraid of dying
Don't I believe that there never is an end?

As the guards march me out to the courtyard
Somebody cries from a cell "God be with you!"
If there's a God, why has let me go?
As I walk all my life drifts before me
And though the end is near I'm not sorry
Catch my soul it's willing to fly away

Mark my words believe my soul lives on
Don't worry now that I have gone
I've gone beyond to see the truth
When you know that your time is close at hand
Maybe then you'll begin to understand
Life down here is just a strange illusion

Yeah!
Hallowed be thy name!
Yeah!
Hallowed be thy name!

Of course, one of my favs.

[mfckr]

Only to experience it over and over and over until the end of time.

On a long enough timeline, you'd still get over it eventually.

I would hand someone the sword to take my head and hopefully that would end all this immortal business.

But that's what nice about it, you can exit at your own choosing instead of there being a set time limit.

[Esaman]

(technological fatalism ftw).

For the loss without trying you mean.
Transhumanism is a can of worms not worth opening or rather worth extensive measures of prevention.
Immortality and what it requires and entails certainly breaks "human" profile as well as humanity/society/civilization/specie.
I believe that effectively all value that existence has to offer is achievable in that human profile, and that timely death is a corner stone both spiritually/philosophically and practically,systematically.
Timely death cures myriads of things including ambitions and egos. By doing so it forces unity both in practically/biologically and in philosophical realization.

Effectively forcing part of the people to die sure would be hard and ugly, but arguably not as ugly as alternative.

[mfckr]

For the loss without trying you mean.
Transhumanism is a can of worms not worth opening or rather worth extensive measures of prevention.
Immortality and what it requires and entails certainly breaks "human" profile as well as humanity/society/civilization/specie.
I believe that effectively all value that existence has to offer is achievable in that human profile, and that timely death is a corner stone both spiritually/philosophically and practically,systematically.
Timely death cures myriads of things including ambitions and egos. By doing so it forces unity both in practically/biologically and in philosophical realization.

So-called 'timely' death is no more a necessity of human existence than are heritable genetic defects or terminal illnesses—e.g., you may as well argue that people be deprived of cancer treatments because modern medicine 'breaks' the "human" profile.

In the future, mortality will simply likewise be addressed as a medical problem for people to be treated/cured of.

I'm also not arguing for transhumanism, btw.

Effectively forcing part of the people to die sure would be hard and ugly, but arguably not as ugly as alternative.

Except once the means become available to achieve immortality, people will do it because they can. Ultimately nothing will be able to stop this.

[Aylen]

But that's what nice about it, you can exit at your own choosing instead of there being a set time limit.

I already believe that.

[Esaman]

So-called 'timely' death is no more a necessity of human existence than are heritable genetic defects or terminal illnesses—e.g., you may as well argue that people be deprived of cancer treatments because modern medicine 'breaks' the "human" profile.

In the future, mortality will simply likewise be addressed as a medical problem for people to be treated/cured of.

Human like all species work not by developing immortality but by rebooting, reshuffling, readjusting the system with generations. Immortality necessarily stops that. I am not performing naturalistic fallacy in saying that things should be how they are. I am say they should be how they are because how they are is better than the alternative. Both practically and spiritually. Practically, regeneration system of a genepool is both robust and flexible, resistant to damage, fatal error and degeneration unlike system of immortal individual. Ohh and the small difference that human specie/genepool is significantly singular unified system striving for immortality. Immortal man would be immortal system on to itself not having invested interest in others except to their nonexistence for reduction of risks. If it is "homo homini lupus" now.... How many legitimately independet intelligent species/beings do you want? Billions? The current somewhat singular biological existence of the dangerous entity is optimal for peace.
Philosophically/spiritually the genepool/sexual reproduction, timely death way of being runs,guides, forces one from alpha to omega of existence. Love of self, love of other, transcendence. Immortality would select for and fill the world with individuals particularly exclusively Self-concerned. Dreadful waste of space and time whether they would be in eternity of subconscious existential angst or not.

I'm also not arguing for transhumanism, btw.

And I have argued that immortality is plenty a break from human profile to be called such. Apposing further transhumanism certainly would be too late after allowing immortality because biological unity and naturalism has already been thrown out of the window.

Except once the means become available to achieve immortality, people will do it because they can. Ultimately nothing will be able to stop this.

Tracking people identity and age and killing them is the ugly part not the hard part. Getting to that and minimizing having to do so would be the hard part.

[ashlesha]

plus like over population n shit.

so yeah, you guys who think the technology is inevitable...what about this?

[mfckr]

so yeah, you guys who think the technology is inevitable...what about this?

Current extrapolations of pop. growth (which historically have tended to be very reliable) suggest global population will level off around the 2040s and subsequently go into decline. There's already plenty of countries with birthrates below replacement level.

[mfckr]

[mfckr]

Human like all species work not by developing immortality but by rebooting, reshuffling, readjusting the system with generations. Immortality necessarily stops that. I am not performing naturalistic fallacy in saying that things should be how they are. I am say they should be how they are because how they are is better than the alternative. Both practically and spiritually. Practically, regeneration system of a genepool is both robust and flexible, resistant to damage, fatal error and degeneration unlike system of immortal individual.

Well, there's no reason to suspect we won't be able to tweak this system ourselves thru genomic engineering. Hence generational refreshes will no longer be necessary.

Ohh and the small difference that human specie/genepool is significantly singular unified system striving for immortality. Immortal man would be immortal system on to itself not having invested interest in others except to their nonexistence for reduction of risks. If it is "homo homini lupus" now.... How many legitimately independet intelligent species/beings do you want? Billions? The current somewhat singular biological existence of the dangerous entity is optimal for peace.

Evolutionary processes are driven by novelty and diversity—i.e., the trying of many different things against pressures of natural selection. So if anything, this will be beneficial for the species. Whereas uniformity in a species tends to be suboptimal.

Philosophically/spiritually the genepool/sexual reproduction, timely death way of being runs,guides, forces one from alpha to omega of existence.

Dying from ebola virus forces one from the alpha↔omega of existence as well, but there's nothing sacred nor desirable about that. Neither is dying from infirmities of old age.

Love of self, love of other, transcendence. Immortality would select for and fill the world with individuals particularly exclusively Self-concerned. Dreadful waste of space and time whether they would be in eternity of subconscious existential angst or not.

Not sure what you're claiming here.

And I have argued that immortality is plenty a break from human profile to be called such. Apposing further transhumanism certainly would be too late after allowing immortality because biological unity and naturalism has already been thrown out of the window.

Appeals to 'naturalism' are really no different than appeals to gods or other religious spooks; 'Nature' is a superstition.

Tracking people identity and age and killing them is the ugly part not the hard part. Getting to that and minimizing having to do so would be the hard part.

As if people won't develop countermeasures against that, not to mention wealthy elites won't find loopholes to exempt themselves.

Though realistically, considering the cost-savings that life extension procedures will provide—such as eliminating the need to treat age-related diseases, keeping older people contributing productively to society, etc.—there'll be every incentive for every country in the world to make these procedures available to every person that wants them.

[Aylen]

Hmmm, why did this guy not stop aging sooner? Anyway, I love to look at the lines of really old people. It is like a road map of their life. My mother does not have many lines and it amazes me but it is encouraging too. Her lack of lines betrays her hardships. My grandmother looked beautiful, to me, at 87. She didn't have my mom until she was almost 50 and my mom had me when she was older as well. I can't get into the idea of not aging. I like to compare myself through pics I have taken over the years and I still look like I did as a child, just older. Some of my friends, from years back, look nothing like they used to. I liked these videos though.

http://www.pinterest.com/pkimboko/faces-of-older-women/

Edit: As a child, I could not wait to have an adult body and face. I felt like an adult trapped in a child's body. No one took me as serious as I wanted to be taken.

Edit2:



I have had a major perspective shift, in the last few months, since there was a time I could not recognize myself in pictures due to extenuating circumstances .

"Whate'er is born of mortal birth. Must be consumèd with the earth, To rise from generation free: Then what have I to do with thee?"

[Aylen]

Bc they're still working out methods for doing so. Hence the point of the research he does.



Faces of decrepitude…



Superstition from the cult of death-worship.

I forgot I posted this.

[mu4]

When is ashton going to start promoting heaven and kool-aid. If we were to become "immortal" it would be an "research project" to discover how to kill us.

[Not A Communist Shill]

[xerx]

*bump* This thread isn't allowed to die.

[myresearch]

I do not even just would like to, I could do anything to get it if it was possible.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Normally I'd say yes, but death is paradoxically powerful. When somebody dies, it's kind of like an area of effect spell on all of reality. It changes and uplifts the rest of reality on a fundamental level, even though the ego/individual ceases to exist. The main issue I have with this, is I would want to feel myself changing, and death is the ultimate change. And Immortality will be no good if it's only for the super rich and if we're still in so many shackles and prisons (of our own minds)- I'd want to do amazing jew sage-y things and still live forever.

Yeah I still agree with this.

[Hawk]

I put normal human lifespan.

My contention is that if you want longer life there are only 3 reasons which may be why:

1. You simply haven't lived enough in your life.
2. You haven't suffered enough
3. Fear

In my case, I have plenty of 2, which has fulfilled half of 1 and eliminated 3.

For 1, I have had a lot of good life too. If I look at it that way, I am content. Being content is the best you can get. Not regretful, not addicted to life. When the end comes, it comes.

And meanwhile, I'm still conquering life ambitiously.

[ouronis]

I put normal human lifespan.

My contention is that if you want longer life there are only 3 reasons which may be why:

1. You simply haven't lived enough in your life.
2. You haven't suffered enough
3. Fear

In my case, I have plenty of 2, which has fulfilled half of 1 and eliminated 3.

For 1, I have had a lot of good life too. If I look at it that way, I am content. Being content is the best you can get. Not regretful, not addicted to life. When the end comes, it comes.

And meanwhile, I'm still conquering life ambitiously.

To say that suffering is a reason not to live is to invalidate all human experience. Furthermore, with an immortal life, you have infinite potential to reduce your suffering.

I am pro-immortality. There is too much cool shit going on not to want to see what comes next.

[Hawk]

To say that suffering is a reason not to live is to invalidate all human experience. Furthermore, with an immortal life, you have infinite potential to reduce your suffering.

I didn't say that at all.

It is the level or degree of ones suffering that determines their flavor or zest for life. It brings understanding and clarity. It brings wisdom.

However your statement of my supposition that suffering is a *reason* to not want to live and invalidates human experience is incorrect.

You can suffer a broken fingernail or a broken arm. One will certainly be a more psychological and physically defining moment than another. You can live without either and still have a fantastic human experience.

And you also suppose being immortal eliminates suffering.

Have you ever had psychological trauma? Can you picture dealing with that every day for a million years?

Immortality has no bearing on healing from a damaged piece of functioning energy.

[AWellArmedCat]

Isn't death the spice of life?

[ouronis]

I didn't say that at all.

It is the level of degree of ones suffering that determines their flavorvor zest for life. It brings understanding and clarity. It brings wisdom.

However your statement of my supposition that suffering is a *reason* to not want to live and invalidates human experience is incorrect.

You can suffer a broken fingernail or a broken arm. One will certainly be a more psychological and physically defining moment than another. You can live without either and still have a fantastic human experience.

And you also suppose being immortal eliminates suffering.

Have you ever had psychological trauma? Can you picture dealing with that every day for a million years?

Immortality has no bearing on healing from a damaged piece of functioning energy.

How does this address anything I said

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Isn't death the spice of life?

life is the spice of death

[myresearch]

Immortality has no bearing on healing from a damaged piece of functioning energy.

I think it does, time does that.

But new sufferings can arise so I dont see it whole as enjoyment.

But fear of death is instinctive, if a person hangs itself, it tries to get rid of it. Thats what body does, thats what we do.

All history and every accumulation so far that lead to this point is a result of that also. People want to be known or leave a mark or have a child, some kind of legacy because they still want to exist without existing.

So saying I have no fear and having no fear are different things.

[Northstar]

I put normal human lifespan.

My contention is that if you want longer life there are only 3 reasons which may be why:

1. You simply haven't lived enough in your life.
2. You haven't suffered enough
3. Fear

In my case, I have plenty of 2, which has fulfilled half of 1 and eliminated 3.

For 1, I have had a lot of good life too. If I look at it that way, I am content. Being content is the best you can get. Not regretful, not addicted to life. When the end comes, it comes.

And meanwhile, I'm still conquering life ambitiously.

In case of 1., even a thousand human lifetimes would not be enough to experience all the vastness of the universe has to offer both in terms of space and time.
In case of 2., sounds like a depressive mindset, with enough time anything can be overcome
In case of 3., unless you believe in an afterlife, lack of fear related to the end of your existence is either depression or stupidity

Yes, I would very much like to be immortal. There's a vast universe and endless possibilities to explore.

[Northstar]

I didn't say that at all.

It is the level or degree of ones suffering that determines their flavor or zest for life. It brings understanding and clarity. It brings wisdom.

However your statement of my supposition that suffering is a *reason* to not want to live and invalidates human experience is incorrect.

You can suffer a broken fingernail or a broken arm. One will certainly be a more psychological and physically defining moment than another. You can live without either and still have a fantastic human experience.

And you also suppose being immortal eliminates suffering.

Have you ever had psychological trauma? Can you picture dealing with that every day for a million years?

Immortality has no bearing on healing from a damaged piece of functioning energy.

I liked this post accidentally, I don't think your points are good at all. In fact, the opposite.

[Northstar]

Isn't death the spice of life?

No.

[Ocean Man]

Living forever would be pretty cool. Unlimited energy forever.

[HolyKnowing]

Living forever, yes... but not in this physical universe. Here everything is a finite combination of atoms and quantum states which means over an eternity you're going to repeat everything over again and again. Your attention span and ability to understand media are bounded (you can't enjoyably read a 100,000 page novel, you're generally speaking going to want to read material around ~300 pages; you can't enjoyably listen to a 30hr song, generally speaking you're going to want 3:00 minutes songs) which means you're going to cover ever possible book and song over an eternity and so there will be nothing new. You would be bored out of your mind.

I would like to live forever in a universe where information is infinitely dense and not the product of being a finite combination of words, atoms and quantum states, so that you can't exhaust your options. There would be an infinite number of 3:00 songs (or 2:00 songs, or even 1:00 songs) you could listen to and make. An infinite number of 280 character tweets you could make, etc.... And if you really wanted to write that 30hr song, yes, you could do that too! That would be Heaven.

[HolyKnowing]

Isn't death the spice of life?

WTF? No it's not. Death is the worst possible thing in the universe.