ILI Te vs. LIE Ni

[alklonth]

I wanted to post it in What's my subtype section but thought it can be interesting for more general gamma discussion. Can you give any examples of differences between those types? Are they similar or kind-a-like?

I've got a problem, cause I've got 4 more than 4, however I've got some doubts regarding - order. And some descriptions say also that ILI with better have better understanding of emotional atmosphere and are more friendly.

[Narc]

Well, the Te subtype of both the LIE and ILI will emphasise sensing and logic at the occasional expense of intuition and ethics and the Ni subtype works vice versa. The idea is that sensing and intuition suppress each other, as do logic and ethics, so LIE-Te would seem more similar to ILI-Te and LIE-Ni more similar to ILI-Ni. Something I find common is that people will say something like "oh he's an ESTp but a bit quieter, so he must be the Ti subtype", but I don't think that helps.

Something I found helped was considering sociability as separate from the information elements, as that can be shaped by upbringing, local cultures and experiences had that are both good and bad.

[Amber]

ILI-Te could be taken for SLI-Te in a more superficial discussion. (Cpig is a good example). This subtype comes across as matter-of-fact, more rigid, more into problem-solving, understanding, and mastering a subject matter than in speculative thought. Not very inclined to engage in philosophical discussions. ILI-Te can hardly look like their Quasi-identical or their Kindred, unlike the other subt. ILI-Ni seems more detached and a bit softer (Tracy Ruth is very clearly ILI-Ni for me). Better Fi makes them more interested in developing a personal value system and weighing stuff according to that as well. I wouldn't necessarily say they are "more friendly".

LIE-Ni has more developed Fi than the other subt. and better understanding of "social atmosphere" than ILI of any subtype. They are a bit more contemplative than LIE-Te and to my mind more strategic. They seem more "wait and see" rather than going avidly for the goal. You'll often find LIE-Ni very fond of reading etc., not only "getting the job done" or making money. LIE-Ni can appear introverted, in the sense that they are not very gregarious and expansive (more and more friends and novel experiences), but if you pay enough attention to their general activities, they don't really match the interests of an introvert, their focus is on the outer world, not their own thoughts etc. Although they may seem a bit more reserved and maybe they could be confused with ILI, their life rhythm is clearly one of a rational type - do well in structured environments, are consistent, not chaotic, finish what they start, are organized, they are not fluctuating in their choices and decisions and so on.

[alklonth]

Well, the Te subtype of both the LIE and ILI will emphasise sensing and logic at the occasional expense of intuition and ethics and the Ni subtype works vice versa. The idea is that sensing and intuition suppress each other, as do logic and ethics, so LIE-Te would seem more similar to ILI-Te and LIE-Ni more similar to ILI-Ni. Something I find common is that people will say something like "oh he's an ESTp but a bit quieter, so he must be the Ti subtype", but I don't think that helps.

So basically Te subtype would be more resembling of sensoric type than intuitive and could be taken for /polr by somebody who doesn't really get how it's all working. Or am I going too far.

[Amber]

There's a recent discussion on the same topic in this thread : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tical-subtypes

[Narc]

So basically Te subtype would be more resembling of sensoric type than intuitive and could be taken for /polr by somebody who doesn't really get how it's all working. Or am I going too far.

I don't think the polr changes, it's just that the logic and sensing would be used more often.

I'm likely a Te subtype and I have been mistaken for ESTx types on several occasions.

[shadowbox]

Well as an ILI-Te who is very good friends with an LIE-Ni (and also knows several ILI-Ni's and LIE-te's) here's my take.

LIE-Ni

The LIE-Ni is probably the most effective overall type when it comes to achieving material success as they have the knowledge and drive to constantly push toward their goals, but the overall perspective necessary to call BS when they need to and direct their efforts in the most effective direction. The LIE-te subtype is more likely to be an expert in a certain field, but also more likely to be stymied and stuck in a middle-management position and fail to achieve the level of success that is commensurate with their abilities and ambitions. However, it's important to note that both subtypes have, in the aggregate, better people skills and are better suited for the corporate world than ILIs. For a very general description of an LIE-Ni, think of someone who makes extremely clever jokes about the stupidity and shortcomings of corporations, but quietly advances up the corporate ladder at the same time. Both types have a sense of humor, but LIE-Te's come across as a serious person who has an unexpectedly irreverent sense of humor, whereas LIE-Ni's come across as an irreverent person who occasionally reveals that they are have a very serious side (Note: In both subtypes, the tone of their voice will often shift noticeably depending on whether they are talking about a serious or non-serious topic)

ILI-Te

As a general rule, you are more likely to find the ILI-Te in conventional professions (Law, Finance, Medicine etc.) as they will generally be willing to sacrifice more grandiose ambitions for what can be reasonably expected to amount to a successful career. ILI-Ni's are more feast or famine career-wise. They tend to either achieve a career as a serious intellectual (tenured professor, novelist, artist) or they remain in obscurity and struggle to make a living (as a part time lecturer etc.). ILI-Te's are more willing to develop their weaker functions when they are younger, their thought process is something along the lines of "well this societal expectation is objectively stupid, but it's what I need to learn in order to get laid, get a job etc." ILI-Ni's tend to be more stubborn when it comes to what they perceive as flawed social conventions. This impulse is what can make many of them into great and influential thinkers, but it can also be ruinous for their personal lives.

As a caveat to all of this, I believe that there is a great deal of intra-type differences (even within subtypes) so I hope you take my generalizations with a grain of salt.

[FDG]

How is a type whose russian name is "the entrepreneur" particularly fit for corporate life? Most LIEs I know are more into small-to-mid sized businesses where they can make a difference with their own ideas, effort and intuition about "timing" rather than large bureucratical organizations where they are likely to be just a number. Could be cultural though.

(again IME, ILIs and ESIs are better at corporate life because as introverts and negativists they're more likely to think - okay, this is what life requires of me, choosing any other riskier path will likely lead to ruin or w/e)

(ftr I think Solaris' description is a great one)

[Contra]

How is a type whose russian name is "the entrepreneur" particularly fit for corporate life? Most LIEs I know are more into small-to-mid sized businesses where they can make a difference with their own ideas, effort and intuition about "timing" rather than large bureucratical organizations where they are likely to be just a number. Could be cultural though.

(again IME, ILIs and ESIs are better at corporate life because as introverts and negativists they're more likely to think - okay, this is what life requires of me, choosing any other riskier path will likely lead to ruin or w/e)

(ftr I think Solaris' description is a great one)

I think there is probably a ton of LIEs on Wall Street. A lot of the people on this Wall Street forum I hang out on seem to be LIE and they type ENTJ on MBTI. Wall Street jobs aren't exactly your everyday corporate job though compared to the average one so it makes sense. Plus, I think they are mainly gunning for future jobs that will grant them more independence.

Also, I don't think corporate life exactly fits an ILI either. I think both LIEs and ILIs would rather put their ideas into action and make a difference rather than slave away on relatively meaningless work in the corporate world. However, I do think you are more likely to find ILIs that resign themselves to such work because of weak Se, but they probably wouldn't be happy. I know that, for myself, getting trapped in the hierarchy of a corporation would be the bane of my existence.

[blackburry]

from my experience, LIE-Tes tend to turn conversations towards the more practical aspects of life. They don't mind giving out practical advice.

LIE-Nis are much more receptive to in-depth philosophical conversations. The practical aspect are slightly less emphasized and sometimes even downplayed.


I think FDG is a really good example of LIE-Te.
cpig a good example of ILI-Te.
Korpsy a good example of ILI-Ni.



...It's probably pretty apparent I'm ESI-Se and not ESI-Fi.
And I'm not sure how to put into words how I'm different from Fi subtypes. But I feel a very distinctive difference and I typically don't like Fi subtypes...and I can't even put my finger on why that is either.

[blackburry]

I don't think comparing LIE-Te and LIE-Ni to ESTP as being the defining point for Te vs Ni subtype. Didn't people swear up and down that mfckr was SLE at some point?

(mfckr is clearly not SLE and clearly not a LIE-Te subtype. he downplays the practical side of most things as opposed to Fdg.)


BUT ^ this is just from observation.

[FDG]

I think there is probably a ton of LIEs on Wall Street. A lot of the people on this Wall Street forum I hang out on seem to be LIE and they type ENTJ on MBTI. Wall Street jobs aren't exactly your everyday corporate job though compared to the average one so it makes sense. Plus, I think they are mainly gunning for future jobs that will grant them more independence.

Okay, well, those jobs are usually like "make a lot of money in 2-3 years and then move on to something else". I get that reasoning.

(mfckr is clearly not SLE and clearly not a LIE-Te subtype. he downplays the practical side of most things as opposed to Fdg.)

There's a cultural component to that too, but I guess Kansas' culture is fairly "practical", so in theory it should even out.

[blackburry]

Okay, well, those jobs are usually like "make a lot of money in 2-3 years and then move on to something else". I get that reasoning.



There's a cultural component to that too, but I guess Kansas' culture is fairly "practical", so in theory it should even out.

No idea. I just meant it isn't a good way to figure out subtypes. (And some people are more airheaded than others regarding common sense... <<which obviously isn't type related).

[chemical]

I once posted a thread on vertical subtypes. You could read that thread if you like for some people's feedback on similar questions I had.

Overall though, I'm a fan of really getting to the heart of the problem on a level that doesn't just throw rules out there. What is LIE? At heart it is a rational type. What is ILI? At heart, a irrational type. The point of the vertical subtypes to me is at least in part that there are different varieties of these types. I'd say the basic feature of an irrational type with the rational subtype is they need judgment. It's hard for them to get by satiating their basic drives for information without it. Intuition works wonders fine without much judgment in play, but I expect the rational subtype to need so much judgment in their information flow that they are even willing to pursue sensation further. In general, valuable ethical content is more easily sought out by intuitive leads than by logic leads, which is why the dual is there most of all to supply the lacking, as this is the point of maximal cluelessness and passiveness. So, even if the intuitive lead is seeking out much logical content, it's not hard for them to seek out ethical content either. They may simply be more willing to plainly immerse themselves in rational-logical endeavors.

There's also Reinin dichotomies in socionics, which give you various things to play with in regards to what differs between different function-orders.

ILI with better ethical functions will indeed be more likely to understand emotional atmosphere and so forth. The strengthening does happen in pairs, so both Fe and Fi, not just one.