me again

[Benny]

okay..


I know when it comes down to it, my greatest strengths seem to be:

* My ability to be obstinate towards what I feel is right

* Being able to rearrange things to make "negative" things look "positive"

* My ability to hold myself back and remain in control, even when I feel like I'm against overwhelming odds. (I heat up, and need to drink water but I stay focused on the task at hand until completion)

* My ability to use logical persuasion even in high volition arguements

And my greatest weaknesses appear to be:
* Feeling like money can resolve negative situations even if they're not financial in nature: Like as long as I have money, I can deal with situations fine, if I don't have money it's more important to have money than to deal with preexisting situations; although at the same time when I don't have money, I feel like I need to spend money to acquire money creating an even higher need for money than the bare minimum (like I'll eat out more if I'm poor, because it's easier than cooking and allows me to focus on acquiring money more, and food is important in order to be able to make money as if I eat badly I can't work efficiently)

* Reacting against personal attacks, either by "ignoring them", or "wanting to get rid of the other person", or "attacking them" rather than letting go of them.

* Getting stuck in repetitive behavioural patterns and locking, and finding it difficult to step back and allow myself to be aware of the situation from an objective rather than subjective view. This gets a little better with Fi/Ni input from what I can gather. It seems to actually get worse with Te/Se and I can often be really bored with Fe/Ti input ..

* Having poor emotional vocabulary. I can't really define emotional things very well at all. When someone asks me how someone was, I get confused about how I'm meant to respond, or whether they're being overly intrusive.

* Becoming non-verbal, and not stating my real intentions when under high levels of stress. But sometimes ranting incessantly instead about things that aren't actually my intention. (which is "safer")

* Having poor tonal control of my voice, whilst remaining able to "raise" and the intensity of my voice at will. (lowering it is harder mind you it requires trying to apply reverse pressure, whereas raising it just requires increasing output)


General things notice about me:
* I move quickly, with large strides, and sometimes run. Especially upstairs. Downstairs I tend to jump part of the way. When there are obstacles in the way I can get pissed off at them, and either throw them out of the way, or jump over them.

* I tend to look like I have high energy even if I'm standing still. Some people have told me that I could look unpredictable, and that it's hard to know what I'll do or to predict me. Although generally those people "get" me after a while, and realise that I'm not a threat (huh? why'd I be a threat? which is how I got to find out that people found me unpredictable)

* I can talk pretty fast, and overload people. Although in my meagre comparisons with other people, I'm sure that I don't talk as fast as lots of people, it's more that I can progress fast in conversation and apparently I can talk at people, in such a way that it can come across as a kind of verbal assault? Sometimes when I do this people start to get kind of nervous/uncomfortable and move backwards.

* I can come across as being rather pressured, especially if I've been active a long time. This partially seems to relate to difficulty relaxing. And finding it hard to guage my own pressure. I can't really notice this very well unless I have a reference point though - for example when I give someone a handshake I can be quite firm, but I can reduce pressure to their level, and that can help me realise. This happens in situations that I really don't want it to. Like crushing close-friends hands for a moment.

* If people have high intensity around me I often either dismiss them, or match their intensity. And then try to lower intensity and get them to match the lowering of intensity. This can calm some people down but some people are kind of unstable as the lowering happens.

* I can be pretty competitive, and this can mean that some people spontaneously give up in challenges against me without playing, or feel like it's okay to lose against me. I counter this by "playing up" losing, and that can encourage other people to say that they don't like losing, where I can then play the "I like to lose" and how you can't win without first losing. And how it creates a gap in order to win - and go off on some speil basically stating that it's good to lose, and to keep playing. I also believe that it's more important how quickly you get back up after losing, than whether or not you lose. Also, sometimes I purposely lose, especially whilst I'm "guaging" a situation, and I suddenly move to a winning position from a losing position. (like when I was a kid, I'd find myself sometimes being behind everyone else at things, and then suddenly being ahead of everyone else. But it felt like I had to "sustain" when winning, and that it served no purpose, and that it was better to lose. Sometimes I'd find myself purposely doing things that I felt like I was going to lose at, rather than things I was going to win at, because I didn't like the feeling of sticking out too much, because it'd attract undue attention. At the same time, when I was going well, I'd often try to redirect attention away from me because I don't like "holding onto things" because it feels like an undue responsibility or something.

* I often seek out people who are not talking too much, or talking too much, and try to "balance" situations out. And I like harmonious situations where everyone is on an equal stepping. But I can kind of pressure/push people in order to acheive this. And that can come across as being intrusive and not letting people be themselves to some people, usually with kind of strange sardonic tones? Sometimes it can bring up entitlement complexes in other people, and other boring things that I'd rather they just got rid of.

* I often don't reveal much personal things about myself in case they're used against me. And when I do I often use risk calulation/management.

* I can generally get into conversations with most people. But some people can seem to react adversely to me, and seem kind of torn and cynical and start blaming things or making excuses. When this happens, sometimes stepping backwards seems to help, and I kind of just listen to what they have to say, and they start going through some kind of strange transformation where they start convincing themselves of something or other. This seems to relate to people feeling like it's safe to tell me about their insecurities and that they can trust me? But sometimes it goes through this doubt period, or suddenly they decide they can't trust me, and seem to get really frantic and say that I'm making them feel something?

* I can be pretty rigid, and it can be hard for people to change my opinion. This seems to make some people convince me of things. But sometimes, I'm like "I don't care about X" and suddenly they seem to take it personally?

* I can be pretty outgoing, but it's not constant. Sometimes I can't be around people because they're not useful to me at all. Especially if I'm working a lot. But if I'm around easy going people I can switch from work to play mode, and be more outgoing again.

* Generally people tell me that I'm friendly, energetic, and always know what to do. But sometimes they tell me that I'm uncompromising, inflexible, and don't care about the impact I have on other people. Sometimes people actually realise that I'm not really very aware of what impact I have on other people, but sometimes it can be hard to get through to me about such things.

Wow... that got pretty long...

Anyway, the thoroughness of my logic doesn't seem to be as good as ENTj's habitually have. And I can readily admit to this. Although my speed of logic is pretty high - and I can make logical decisions quickly it's generally due to heavy use of simplification, and an awareness of what is likely to work or not based upon a kind of internal feeling of whether or not something feels right. Like tell me to do soemthing stupid, and it'll feel kind of stupid, and so I'll say it's stupid. Ask me why it's stupid, and it an get complicated. Often what I call stupid is things that "don't feel right" or make no sense. This seems to mean I catch other people out pretty easily sometimes because it straight away doesn't seem right, so I can be quite snappy at casting things as wrong. And then I kind of "move" things to where they "feel" right.

Such as when you're interacting with someone, and you kind of shift the conversation to where you want it to go, based upon a feeling of the right direction, but you're kind of just talking based upon the current feeling that you're also going to change, but you don't want to separate words from feeling? (although what I call feeling is raw feeling, rather than thinking feeling .. like I don't like vomit, and if I see vomit it feels bad, but with abstract feelings like "How do you feel about" it gets a lot more complicated. Like "how do you feel about war?" "It's stupid" - it's like low level rather than high level. "And then what's stupid about it?" "It doesn't make sense".

But then if people say like "How does the colour pink make you feel?" then I'm like "Like killing bunnies!" and so it's kind of just whatever comes to me rather than sitting back and trying to conjure up a "higher feeling state" in order to fit it in, and contemplate it.

Wow.. way too long .. okay ...

I need to figure out where to go next in order to get a better grasp on what my real type is Anyone have any real suggestions? I'm not very good at reading. It's too abstract.

[mikemex]

ESTj is my bet.

[Joy]

I'm not going to point out all of the things that indicate strong Se. My point of view on that matter is obvious, so pointing out of the the Se in what you've said would just be repetitive.

Aside from that, there are many examples of weak Fi, several of weak Fe, and a few comments that indicate extroversion. You mention a lot of things that involve group social settings and how you do (or don't) fit in and how others feel about you. In the following post, it appears that you are looking for Fe, but sometimes find Fi instead... and don't like it. It sounds like you want people's personal Fi-type issues to just go away so the Fe can flow free.

* I often seek out people who are not talking too much, or talking too much, and try to "balance" situations out. And I like harmonious situations where everyone is on an equal stepping. But I can kind of pressure/push people in order to acheive this. And that can come across as being intrusive and not letting people be themselves to some people, usually with kind of strange sardonic tones? Sometimes it can bring up entitlement complexes in other people, and other boring things that I'd rather they just got rid of.

I could be misinterpretting what you're saying though. That's the thing about functions... some one can describe something and it can sound like a certain function, but their motivations and point of view may be entirely different than what the observer percieves.

I'd be happy to analyze your description of yourself more, if you're interested. I don't want to do it if you're not interested though, and I certainly don't want to argue.

[vague]

[science as magic]

i liked the elaboration on the topic. it reminded me of better times.

[implied]

benny, how do you react to sarcasm? (e.g. sarcastic remarks aimed toward you.)

would you be able to tell if they were hurtful or not?

what about criticism?

[Benny]

benny, how do you react to sarcasm? (e.g. sarcastic remarks aimed toward you.)

would you be able to tell if they were hurtful or not?

Hmm - that brings up what is sarcasm, to me. I had a little think about it.

Generally when people use sarcasm, it's not head on - it's like they're saying stuff but they're not saying it. That can irritate me, and I focus on the person saying it. Generally this means that they look a little rushed, and I guage their level of self-control.

Although there's another kind of sarcasm as well, where it's like you say things in a straight way that could be taken more than one way. I may just grin for those ones, or play with the words.

Anyway, a lot of the time I actually just ignore it. Sometimes when I'm being perfectly fine, with reasonable behaviour people can get defensive, and act as if they're being attacked, for reasons that I don't care for. And so I just let most of it go.

The people who use sarcasm with me generally are prone to subtle underhanded power plays, and manipulation. And this I tend to be aware of before they've done it. And I generally feel like people should be able to stick up for themselves, but if they do it to a friend, and it's irritating me I can seek out what's happening.

In the same way, if someone insults me it's easier to handle than if someone insults a friend. Because I can stonewall people easily, but some people are more sensitive to how other people act towards them.

Sometimes I feel like people are being over aggressive in their sarcasm, and getting in the way, and I do feel like I have to at least find out what's happening,

*BUT* if someone could actually hurt me, then I am prone to verbally assaulting people, and talking about how useless and worthless they are, and continuing until they're unsure about continuing to say such things.

Although, if they lose control when this happens, then I can suddenly punch them before they punch me, and continue to punch them until they cut out.

I do realise that it's not necessarily the best way to go about things, but if I don't then sometimes those kinds of people can try setting lots of people against me. And I can't be bothered answering lots of questions about things that don't even seem to have relevance to me. This can sometimes happen if someone's taken something the wrong way, and haven't told me, but have told other people.

I haven't got into that many of these kinds of issues recently. Probably about three encounters in the last couple of years?

One of them, got paranoid, because I had something to offer his girlfriend, that he didn't have. I knew he was getting uncomfortable, and he was trying to bargain, but it couldn't get past my rationality. I didn't really know how to ease him up about it; he started trying to cut me down, and I returned equal intensity just pushing it back onto him. We roared in each others faces both with our heads slanted to the right at high volume for a period of time. And then we started laughing, and everything was cool again. Later he tried to make jokes at my expense, and I just ignored them. And then later on we had a pretty normal conversation.

The second one, I can't remember because I was drunk, and I don't really know what happened. But I reacted to *something* and apparentally there was a big scene. And then I went on about being hungry, and someone got me a pie, and I was fine.

The third one, this guy was trying to tell me about his emotional problems or something. I'd had a difficult day, and just wanted to take things easy, I was pretty passive, and didn't say much, and he was talking too much, and wouldn't go away when I asked him to. Before he'd started trying to tell me about his emotional problems, he was trying to tell his (bigger) friend that he should beat me up. The bigger friend was still, and seemed to be in control, and the guy saying it looked like he needed to go on amusement rides. I was like "why does he only say stuff when he looks to the side to his friend, and not say stuff to me directly? why's he got a problem with me? and why's he trying to blame me for stuff that I have no idea about." Anyway, whilst I was sitting still and just laxing smoking a cigarette, he wouldn't get away from me, he kept on trying to gain my attention, and I didn't want to give it to him. He was talking high, and fast, and I probably should have reassured him. But I didn't want to have to deal with his shit. Then he tried to gain my attention by talking shit about me to someone else at a distance, and then he said something negative about someone else, and that's when I was like "God damn it, he has to stop" and I was like "stop, you're being a dick." and he started to get a bit edgy, and I'm a bit blurry around here ... and anyway somehow, it ended up with me punching him in the head repetitively and people trying to get in the way and break it up, and me punching them, and then someone getting in the way allowing him to get a hit on me, and then this guy tried to talk to me, and ask me what happened, and so forth, and blah blah, and I was refusing to apologise, and stood behind all my actions, and said that if the same thing happened again, I'd respond the same way. And so on (like I normally do after fighting). And then after a while I was like "I want to go talk to him about it" and people wanted us to be apart. And I was like, I'm fine. And he'd gone off somewhere, et cetera. Anyway, the next time I ran into him, I apologised and he said he didn't remember. He's one of those people that are kind of surly in general. And he's been in fights before. He's got that general darkened aggressive look. Whereas even when I fight, I'm usually pretty bright, and upbeat. (which really confuses some people, as I'm very "Yeah, it's a wonderful idea! Let's fight!!" in a kind of happy-go-lucky kind of way - free-wheeling I think it was called?)

Oh hangon, there's more. Anyway, the thing is people often underestimate me. Like if people actually use force, and I'm sitting down, and they're standing up, then if I stand up, then they can suddenly step back - so sometimes because I have glasses, and look small, people can feel more comfortable about giving me shit. But after a while they notice:
* I don't react very much
* I'm rather focused, and controlled in interactions
* If they raise the intensity I tend to match
* I do blocking defensive but strong actions when people get aggressive (like stick my palms out in front of me - which generally makes people back down)
* I use open body posturing, with confidence, and even when other people are aggressive / disruptive / menancing I'm pretty calm, and like to shake their hand, look them in the eye, listen to what they're saying, and remain emotionally stable.

But .. what can set people off a bit .. is when I start to lose control for brief moments ... rather than losing control completely I tend to have semi loss of controls with increasing intensity that are for a very short duration, but tend to make it hard for people to intrude on my space. This means that I can start increasing my energy and reorientating again and again, until it's at pretty high levels. When I do this I tend to come across as being a bit intimidating whilst staying calm and controlled. (although if I *lose* control of my environment when I'm like this I can turn quite predatory)

So... is that Se?

[Benny]

what about criticism?

I used to not be very good at taking it. It just seemed like other people saw things differently than me, and were stupid. And I'd rather do things my own way. And let them do things their own way.

Actually, that reminds me. I used to get criticised for hurting people before, and I'd get kind of defensive about it. Like "He wanted to get hurt", and "He should have stood up for himself", and "It's his own fault, he was asking for it" and so forth ... which used to mean I was criticised even more for my sometimes quite forward approaches to things.

But like I can't really relate to what influence I have on other people very easily... if I try to imagine something from someone else's point of view, I put it through my own ego ... if I was in his situation how would I respond ...

Which lead to interesting problems taking criticism like. "If I was stupid, I'd like to be told so" - and yet other people don't like getting told they're stupid. Which means that they should be able to take people calling them stupid. And if they can't, then they should learn. And so I'll keep calling them stupid, until they stop me from doing so...

So I suppose it's criticism about how my behaviours are taken from others that I find difficult. Criticism about myself, if constructive is good. I like it when people tell me when I've done things wrong, as long as they can help me do them better rather than just tell me that I should know? (which brings me to: Should know what?)

Actually, I really like to talk about mistakes. It helps me feel more secure... like when I talk about things I've already done, I can be pretty comfortable running through all the things I did wrong, making a big list of them, and how I'm going to deal with them better. But I don't like to talk about mistakes when I'm in the middle of a task, or it's an inconvenient time.

Although at the same time, with criticism people often say that it doesn't appear like I'm listening to what they're saying or taking them seriously?

I tend to fixate my eyes on one point looking down and just letting it run past me. But I still process it. Although sometimes I'm like, what are you really trying to say?

[Benny]

I'm sorry that I'm writing such long posts. It may take a while to read. I feel like I need context, and to just let my memory spin ..

[Benny]

To these people saying ESTj:

If I was ESTj that would mean that I would want to protect my dual from Ne, and help them acheive Si.

If Si means to be healthy. Well, I'm not that healthy. And INTj's and INFj's seem to be healthier - even obsessively so -

And if I was ESTj that would mean I'd want to go towards Ne - but I tend to find Ne confusing. And to be a waste of time and resources down an unknown path ... I find that when I talk with ENFp's for instance I can't gain much from them. Although I can spend time with them, I feel like I need to protect them from screwing themselves up by their use of Ne.

[Benny]

Also being ESTj would mean that I was conflicting with INFp. I don't know if I'm really conflicting. Or what that really means.

In my relations with INFp I find that we can talk pretty easily from the onset - but that they have a lot of "stuck" ideas that are "stupid" and that aren't of any use or benefit to me, and that I want to "kill" their stupid ideas, and "help" them create new ones. Which of course INFp's are totally resistant to

Although! If we're in a group it's not so bad. I just switch off when they talk for any reasonable period of time. (but quick things are okay often)

Although listening to them also makes me go: Well, why don't they just? And it seems to make them defensive.

[Benny]

Mind you, if I was a Se type I wouldn't write copious amounts of bullshit down. I'd just go do something like, ... hmm..

What do Se types do at 10 pm on a sunday night?

[Joy]

Mind you, if I was a Se type I wouldn't write copious amounts of bullshit down. I'd just go do something like, ... hmm..

What do Se types do at 10 pm on a sunday night?

bullshit

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

In my relations with INFp I find that we can talk pretty easily from the onset - but that they have a lot of "stuck" ideas that are "stupid" and that aren't of any use or benefit to me, and that I want to "kill" their stupid ideas, and "help" them create new ones. Which of course INFp's are totally resistant to

estj or not....i try to take in their ideas....but if i KNOW its bullshit and they are just pulling it out of their ass, i call them on it and they ignore me in defense. well....i only know one and thats what he does.


also....im EXTREMELY open-minded pretty much always, and VERY flexible most of the time, unless im grumpy.

im hardly ever "stuck" in ideas because im constantly considering everyone's point of view and therefore changing mine to what sounds the most right. if what they say doesn't sound "right", i just stick with my own opinion.

but i dont know if all infp's are like this....i think a large part of why i do this is because i was best friends with my benefactor for so long and they just make me feel like i NEED to consider their point of view, and they always made it make A LOT of sense....whatever it was

[cracka]

hahahahaha... estj or not...this hit me right on the head...lol

Oh hangon, there's more. Anyway, the thing is people often underestimate me. Like if people actually use force, and I'm sitting down, and they're standing up, then if I stand up, then they can suddenly step back - so sometimes because I have glasses, and look small, people can feel more comfortable about giving me shit. But after a while they notice:
* I don't react very much
* I'm rather focused, and controlled in interactions
* If they raise the intensity I tend to match
* I do blocking defensive but strong actions when people get aggressive (like stick my palms out in front of me - which generally makes people back down)
* I use open body posturing, with confidence, and even when other people are aggressive / disruptive / menancing I'm pretty calm, and like to shake their hand, look them in the eye, listen to what they're saying, and remain emotionally stable.

hahaha, i'm a short guy with glasses also and thought this was pretty funny as it rang quite true. I have avoided physical altercations/fights before just by looking someone straight in the eyes and in a sense scaring the shit out of them...lol at least that's what they said later on...haha

+1 for maybe ESTJ also...but I really don't know shit about socionics...just estj's.

[Joy]

All short guys come up with a defense similar to that. Some choose humor (no one wants to hurt the funny kid). some choose insanity (it doesn't matter how little someone is if they don't know restraint). Etc.

[FDG]

ESTp just like me and ashton.

[Benny]

All short guys come up with a defense similar to that. Some choose humor (no one wants to hurt the funny kid). some choose insanity (it doesn't matter how little someone is if they don't know restraint). Etc.

I'm not really short - 5'10" .. but I'm pretty thin. .

[Benny]

hahahahaha... estj or not...this hit me right on the head...lol

Oh hangon, there's more. Anyway, the thing is people often underestimate me. Like if people actually use force, and I'm sitting down, and they're standing up, then if I stand up, then they can suddenly step back - so sometimes because I have glasses, and look small, people can feel more comfortable about giving me shit. But after a while they notice:
* I don't react very much
* I'm rather focused, and controlled in interactions
* If they raise the intensity I tend to match
* I do blocking defensive but strong actions when people get aggressive (like stick my palms out in front of me - which generally makes people back down)
* I use open body posturing, with confidence, and even when other people are aggressive / disruptive / menancing I'm pretty calm, and like to shake their hand, look them in the eye, listen to what they're saying, and remain emotionally stable.

hahaha, i'm a short guy with glasses also and thought this was pretty funny as it rang quite true. I have avoided physical altercations/fights before just by looking someone straight in the eyes and in a sense scaring the shit out of them...lol at least that's what they said later on...haha

+1 for maybe ESTJ also...but I really don't know shit about socionics...just estj's.

Yeah, it's funny isn't it? Apparently I start looking a lot bigger than I am, and people either freeze or start to lose control when I'm like that.

[Gilly]

ESTp just like me and ashton.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. You're all Te. I spoke with Ashton for the first time over the phone last night, and let me tell you, it's Te you're seeing. The mistake Joy is making in saying that you're all Se is that she has creative Te and is trying to compare it with your program Te; when she sees it occurring so naturally in you all, she sees it as a different function, and the only logical thing to see it as would be Se.

[Joy]

(:

no one thinks he's an ESTp cause I suggested it...

[Joy]

for some reason I like being called ISTp

[Polly]

And if I was ESTj that would mean I'd want to go towards Ne - but I tend to find Ne confusing. And to be a waste of time and resources down an unknown path ... I find that when I talk with ENFp's for instance I can't gain much from them. Although I can spend time with them, I feel like I need to protect them from screwing themselves up by their use of Ne.

This sounds very much like the ESTjs I know. They would try to do it to me too and would cause conflicts. I found it insulting for someone to hop in and try to get involved in my work (I stress MY here) because of a lack of faith they seemed to have without even seeing if I could produce the final product. They simply didn't quite get how I function and would try to pressure me to function in a way where I'm not as productive.

Many types need a certain amount of space both mental and physical to work. I find it difficult to sometimes get that space around ESTjs. They are like hawks waiting for glitch. All kinds of glitches happen, they just don't affect me in the same way and I can work around them.

I also found many ESTjs want to be right and will do a lot of research to be so. Then they run to show you how right they are. It wouldn't be so annoying if the stuff they were expending the effort on actually mattered.

I had one trying to tell me (after working in administration for 12 years) I was typing envelopes wrong. There should be only one space between the postal code and province instead of two.

In my head I'm thinking, why do you even care, it still gets through the postal system no problem at all, but I respond, really...I thought it was two spaces.

She then went to Canada's post website, printed off a guide on how to properly mail items and gave it to me. In her head, she was doing me a favor. In my head, she was being annoying and wasting time doing things which were better spent on her own work.

I don't tend to work well with EST*s but can get along with them in social situations. When we start getting too close I usually put a hault on the relationship.

[FDG]

ESTp just like me and ashton.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. You're all Te. I spoke with Ashton for the first time over the phone last night, and let me tell you, it's Te you're seeing. The mistake Joy is making in saying that you're all Se is that she has creative Te and is trying to compare it with your program Te; when she sees it occurring so naturally in you all, she sees it as a different function, and the only logical thing to see it as would be Se.

I am not even hearing you. I know I use Se IRL. I've seen the Se description. I know what I see through my eyes and the way I react. I've seen the ESTp description. Don't even start, Gilligan. There is no way I am going to change my mind this time, I'm sorry. Don't try strange rationalization. I've lived my life, and I know I can't get along with types. Please, keep questioning your type, beacuse mine is not necessary.

Nobody has suggested me to be ESTp. If suggested, I probably would have rejected it.

[meatburger]

lol FDG

You are ENTj all the way mate

My ENTj tried to break up with his ESTj girlfriend over the weekend. He said he didn't have the heart. She made a list of reasons why they should be together and emailed it to him

[FDG]

lol FDG

You are ENTj all the way mate

Now you want to decide for me? Now YOU know how my relationships are like? Have you ever seen me IRL? Please.

[meatburger]

Yeah i know. I just dont buy it. It could be because i have just became accustomed to you as an ENTj.

Give me 2 mins in your presence and i would tell if you were an ESTp and ENTj unless there is subtypes that seem be make the two similar?

You should start a thread about it

[FDG]

Give me 2 mins in your presence and i would tell if you were an ESTp and ENTj unless there is subtypes that seem be make the two similar?

First of all, if I were to know that you are examinig me, I wouldn't behave naturally.

Second, ehm - there is really no need for that - i have all the traits described in an estp description, i have sucky relationship with isfjs and very good ones with infps (or any ixxp for that matter), and I can't possibly be a judging type.

Oh and anyway, I decided everything by myself...I don't really need people's input in this case

[science as magic]

fdg



poor form

i thought we had agreed the intertype relations weren't applicable?

[FDG]

fdg



poor form

i thought we had agreed the intertype relations weren't applicable?

They're applicabe IRL IRL. I can't really shut my eyes?

[Joy]

I was pondering this some more...

Benny has the ability to piss me off instantly. Even if I don't know it's him in the chat, the very first thing he says pisses me off. ESTps do not have this power with me. ESTjs sometimes do. I think I mistook his controlling nature for Se aggression.

[Zeia]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

[Expat]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

[Gilly]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

[FDG]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

You know jack shit. Do you see through his eyes? Lol. That wasn't a functional description. That was the way the person sees life.

[Gilly]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

You know jack shit. Do you see through his eyes? Lol.

No, I see through MY eyes, which are undoubtedly more objective when it comes to diagnosing conistencies in behavior in him. People CANNOT be relied upon to be objective concerning their own tendencies or behavior. It's that simple. Anyone can identify with any type description or functional description if they feel like it. Shit, I see plenty of characteristics in myself, as weel as and and and and and and . We all use every "function;" if we are so inclined, we can convince ourselves than ANY of them is our program/dominant function, simply because we can observe it in ourself.

So shut the fuck up.

[FDG]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

You know jack shit. Do you see through his eyes? Lol.

No, I see through MY eyes, which are undoubtedly more objective when it comes to diagnosing conistencies in behavior in him. People CANNOT be relied upon to be objective concerning their own tendencies or behavior. It's that simple. Anyone can identify with any type description or functional description if they feel like it. Shit, I see plenty of characteristics in myself, as weel as and and and and and and . We all use every "function;" if we are so inclined, we can convince ourselves than ANY of them is our program/dominant function, simply because we can observe it in ourself.

So shut the fuck up.

I don't see any of those function charateristics. I see only with eyes, moron. If I try to read Snegledmaca descr of Ni, I just think "it's not me". Same for Slava and Ne.

Do not project unto us your lack of reliability.

[Gilly]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

You know jack shit. Do you see through his eyes? Lol.

No, I see through MY eyes, which are undoubtedly more objective when it comes to diagnosing conistencies in behavior in him. People CANNOT be relied upon to be objective concerning their own tendencies or behavior. It's that simple. Anyone can identify with any type description or functional description if they feel like it. Shit, I see plenty of characteristics in myself, as weel as and and and and and and . We all use every "function;" if we are so inclined, we can convince ourselves than ANY of them is our program/dominant function, simply because we can observe it in ourself.

So shut the fuck up.

I don't see any of those function charateristics. I see only with eyes, moron. If I try to read Snegledmaca descr of Ni, I just think "it's not me". Same for Slava and Ne.

Do not project unto us your lack of reliability.

Shut the fuck up, you pompous prick. You know what I say is true, you're just too fucking embarassed and degraded to admit it. You dont identify with them because you CHOOSE not to. I can identify with sneg's or Slava's or even Herzy's if I feel like it and I'm up for convincing myself of it. You're just not willing to admit that you're on the same level as Joy and that you're just fooling yourself. I'm sorry that you feel stupid for doing this kind of thing to yourself, but you'll forgive yourself and get over it eventually.

[FDG]

I think Benny is an ENTj.

He identified thoroughly with a description and even said, "I think most people are like that", which suggests a type.

Identification by self-analysis is totally biased and unreliable (read: bullshit). People cannot be trusted to type themselves, even, like in this case, it's dependant on blind identification with a functional description. Other people usually have a more objective perspective on someone than the person themself, unless the person in question has incredible self-analytical capabilities.

You know jack shit. Do you see through his eyes? Lol.

No, I see through MY eyes, which are undoubtedly more objective when it comes to diagnosing conistencies in behavior in him. People CANNOT be relied upon to be objective concerning their own tendencies or behavior. It's that simple. Anyone can identify with any type description or functional description if they feel like it. Shit, I see plenty of characteristics in myself, as weel as and and and and and and . We all use every "function;" if we are so inclined, we can convince ourselves than ANY of them is our program/dominant function, simply because we can observe it in ourself.

So shut the fuck up.

I don't see any of those function charateristics. I see only with eyes, moron. If I try to read Snegledmaca descr of Ni, I just think "it's not me". Same for Slava and Ne.

Do not project unto us your lack of reliability.

Shut the fuck up, you pompous prick. You know what I say is true, you're just too fucking embarassed and degraded to admit it. You dont identify with them because you CHOOSE not to. I can identify with sneg's or Slava's or even Herzy's if I feel like it and I'm up for convincing myself of it. You're just not willing to admit that you're on the same level as Joy and that you're just fooling yourself. I'm sorry that you feel stupid for doing this kind of thing to yourself, but you'll forgive yourself and get over it eventually.

Hello? Do you realize that I just wrote some description of types with whom Herzy, a pretty declared SLE, agrees? I don't really understand why you're fighting windmills here. There ain't no problem for you if I'm ESTp, really. I can't identify with all the descriptions if I feel like it, sorry. If you can, good for you, that skill might be useful if you dunno, wish to change sex without any surgery. Bye.

[Ms. Kensington]

well, i do think if you say "i think most people are like that" that is a big sign of that function/quadra being natural to you.

also (since FDG posted while i was writng the above, hehe) I think sure the self can know some selected things better about the self than others. not all. but i was going to say, FDG, that anything that's true about being better to discern some things better about the self doesn't mean that you can say that its better to be discerned in others. It could be, not about recognition its about access. So, not necessarily the case for either gilly or fdg. but, could be!