I'm that way too, but i definitely fall into 6>5. I think it's telling that both 5's and ILI can be referred to as the "watcher". Te is more watching than Ti to me.
Im careful, quiet and reserved more out of a distrust of people(6) than just a natural inclination to observe(5).
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
We make fun of it and tease the idea of Fi, but it's mostly facetious and our actions reflect a 4d strength in it. If worked on, Demonstrative Fi can be that person who never really does anybody wrong, but nobody notices because we're constantly making filthy, dark-humored jokes and pretending like we don't tip the waitress.
I would say the understanding of personal relationships and connections between people is the part we sort of miss(as it's unconscious in NiFe), but we retain the right or wrong, ethical strengths.
However, if we don't work on ourselves we can appear like self-absorbed victims because we're declaring the wrongs of others, dramatically, while not reflecting the values back on ourselves.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
For me a E5 Feeling-type artist is someone like Georgia O'Keeffe, not Cobain. He was totally emo and he fucked up his life because of having the wrong locus of control.
To answer your other Q: I can see Ni in your thought, but not so much in your pic. Not to mention you don't have the typical expressions of a F type (this could be due to gender conditioning).
I think Ti is very good at analytical observation, deducting empirical evidence down to a conclusion (it's no coincidence that one Ti type (ISTj) is called the inspector). Te, as far as my knowledge has led me, has more to do with observing external factual information, and evaluating the efficiency of people and things. Fi follows along in the same vein as Ti, but its intrinsic focus is on people and ethics. Fe is more like Te in some ways, as it focuses on judging dynamic information -- not relating to efficiency of action, but to the emotions of people. Being an Fe-type, does it make you gravitate more towards people, as opposed to an Fi-type, who would try to maintain a safe distance?
Agreed on O'Keeffe. She did seem to have a more detached eye than what one would expect from a feeling type.
That's not surprising. I was probably more T during my early life. It wan't until my teenage years that I developed my F functions. If there's not so much Ni in my pic, it's because I picked the one that looked least scary.![]()
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
from what i know which may or may not be very little i would say 9 would be hella Ni not just by the fact that 9 are lazy but the hole harmony thing is what Ni does seeks harmony in all the bullshit that is happening looking for a path i guess to follow and 4 would be more Fe or simply less Ni lol and focus on expressing who they are inside or w/e something like that 9=ni 4=fe wings=mind blown not even gunna go there well maybe who knows i aint no dam Ni type
Ok, i think the apparent difference in opinions boils down to a miscommunication of words. My observe is not your observe.
The watcher, or observer in the sense that i understand it (E5 & ILI stereotype), is one who sits and absorbs. Analysis and processing that information isn't in that umbrella. It's heavily a P oriented thing, to percieve and not process. EP observes more purely than IP, but EP also enacts and participates more than anyone else. IP is the one who sits quietly watching.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
lol what are you on about w8 let me guess one or both of my definitions of Ni and eneargram 9 offend you
I self type IEI E9 sx/sp - as far as Fe or Ni I am probably a pretty balanced type.
My cousin, who I type as IEI-Ni E4 sx/sp, comes across very, very differently than I do. We grew up together and were extremely close (she calls me her soulmate). I guess the main differences are that I'm a lot nicer, a lot more accepting of others, less moody, less dramatic, much more active, more likely to clean my house. The MAIN difference would be that she is sooooo moody and I have my moments, but they are few and far between. And I keep it to myself, whereas she makes it very clear. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, this is just really the case. On the negative side though, I can be a lot more passive at times that I shouldn't be - although, as I've gotten older that tendency has reduced greatly. I can also be more naïve.
As far as coming across like a delta NF, that is definitely the case. I had a really difficult time figuring out which of the two types I was. I relate strongly to some of the EII descriptions, esp the female description here http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ale_and_female. Sometimes the IEI descriptions are a little too over the top for me to relate to. You know, in general, I am not ravishing elegant cocktail parties across the globe, dressed like I just left the Moulin Rouge, sipping champagne with an adoring mob following me and trying to convince the world how lovely I am. I mean, sometimes I do, but not as often as would be suggested by the descriptions.
In particular, I feel like I use(value/am in touch with?) Fi more than would be suggested by my IEI typing.
Really though, as different as we can come across, my cousin and I are still the same type. We can still read each other's minds. Our brains still "tick" in the same way. I know I can always be understood by her perfectly and vice versa - even when our morals, opinions, whatever diverge.
Last edited by epheme; 06-10-2014 at 07:25 AM. Reason: spelling
Thank you @epheme. The differences you bring up between you and your cousin are exactly the differences I notice between this person and other ieis i've known so that really helps me be comfortable with how I've typed him. Especially the activity part which isn't something I would think to attribute to 9 vs 4 but it's there nonetheless.
@epheme, I love your descriptions of peopleMy good friend is EII 9w1 (with a really strong 1 wing) and you kinda remind me of her. You seem much less volatile, more accepting and in general a genuinely nice peson (meant as a compliment in a best way, I admit I sometimes use it patronizingly
) . I would love to meet an IEI 9 IRL, all I know are 4's. And god knows we can be a pain in the ass (as in everybody's waiting for their turn to talk about themselves
). I cannot imagine not liking IEI 9 ♥.
And no one is as cool as those IEI descriptions (only in our imaginations).
You're welcome lungsI guess it does seem odd that E9 would be more active than an E4 but then there is this
Type 9 Myth: Nines are lazy, slow, unproductive, and lacking in leadership and effectiveness.
Fact: Nines' inertia is simply toward themselves as they put their attention and energy into others' opinions and agendas. They are often highly productive and effective consensus leaders, as well as thoughtful and giving.
So it's not that 9's are actually lazy in the literal sense of the word - it's more like we might do a lot, but nothing we're doing is productive or what we're doing is not something that is essential to our lives in a concrete, tangible, or practical way. Like, we're lazy towards our own needs. We don't want to deal with them so we get caught up doing other things that takes time away from the things we should be doing.
Aw, shucks, thanksYou seem lovely as well
If you ever find yourself in Southern California...
Aw, shucks, thanksYou seem lovely as well
If you ever find yourself in Southern California...[/QUOTE]
Trust me babe, I would like nothing more than to just "find myself" by accident In Sothern California![]()
Type 9 Myth: Nines are lazy, slow, unproductive, and lacking in leadership and effectiveness.
Fact: Nines' inertia is simply toward themselves as they put their attention and energy into others' opinions and agendas. They are often highly productive and effective consensus leaders, as well as thoughtful and giving.
So it's not that 9's are actually lazy in the literal sense of the word - it's more like we might do a lot, but nothing we're doing is productive or what we're doing is not something that is essential to our lives in a concrete, tangible, or practical way. Like, we're lazy towards our own needs. We don't want to deal with them so we get caught up doing other things that takes time away from the things we should be doing.
Epheme I agree with your IEI 9 descriptions a lot!
I'm 9w8 IEI sx/sp and I noticed just a couple differences that are probably attributed to our wing difference and I find it interesting.
...I'm not likely to clean my house lol must be the w1 orderliness thing. Wish I was better at that
..and I don't have too much of a problem working on my goals and being ambitious about them. Yes, sometimes, esp when I care about someone in that SX way (whether it's romantic or just a meaningful platonic relationship) I can put their agenda above my own and I've been trying to consciously get better at that, but other than those somewhat rare times when I get caught up in another's needs too much, I actually do focus on my goals pretty well I think. Maybe that's a w8 thing?
I do think Ive gotten better at that over time, though, and I used to get swept away in others' agendas way more.
I think I may have missed some of those descriptions but it kind of matches my friend who is EIE. He drags me out of the house.
Jet-setting sounds absolutely exhausting. I can hardly make it out the front door some days. When I was younger I was more likely to be found in clubs drinking a bud light than champagne and I was a bit of a groupie when it came to my favorite bands so I didn't have my own mob.If I did have one I would prefer them to not intrude on my personal space. I don't like being followed.
My EIE friend though, he has a mob. A mixture of gay men and straight females. They follow him around like puppies and he drags me around like a cat who does not want to be on a leash.
I had typed this all out then a friend asked me for a ride so I left the window open. I had kinda thought I would delete when I got back and just "like" your post but I ended up behind a truck that said, "bud light" and the numbers, "459"- "945" on the back. A sign! hahah
I can relate to some of the 9w1. I think I need to take some vitamins for energy or something. Nice post.![]()
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
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Last edited by Skepsis; 09-05-2015 at 03:41 AM.
I had a good laugh from that movie.
compare/contrast with other types of IEIs, give examples, say they don't exist, just talk about them.
just curious what people have to say.
enneagram is heresy. enneagram typers will burn in hell
there is special section for this godless thing
Types examples: video bloggers, actors
hmmm...IEI that looks like SEI? Only with that Ni dreamy thing going on...I can't see why they should not exist.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The leading guy from movie Boyhood might be an example of iei 9.
Idk what IEI 9 would be like. Aren't most IEIs pretty spacey anyway??
I'm IEI 9.
Sorry, I will write more when I have time. Anything specific that you'd like to know?
They mostly daydream about finding a pet dragon that will protect them from all of the evil in the world. They write little stories about a lost alien walking down a road who is picked up by a friendly stranger. The stranger and the alien forge an interspecies friendship that brings love and harmony to the cosmos.
This is pretty accurate actually.....
Also there is this post where I talk about the difference between my IEI 4 cousin and me.
Meh, been trying to think of something to say and feel uninspired....