Thank you in going to read that now
Thank you in going to read that now
Check out Socionic temperaments...... LIE is EJ temp and ILI is IP temperament. http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/temperaments/
That article... is just about right. I do it and I admit it. If I can shift the responsibility of the completion of a task to a more suited party I do it. It's all in the name of efficiency mind you. Why not let someone who specializes in X do X for me while I focus on something I'm more suited to? It's all about the division of labor, we ought all focus on the shit we're best at and leave our weak spots to others who have them as strong points. You wouldn't ask a hairdresser to go and mine for coal now would you? Don't ask an observer to go and do what essentially amounts to that. Lemme just observe OK? We'll all be happier for it.
I lied, we won't. I'll be happier, but most of you other people probably won't. I think this is why my type constantly yearns for minions, if only we had minions to boss around so that everything could get done as we quietly observe the world. Shit gets done and we get to sit back and relax, heaven!
You're welcome @Lola
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Deleted.
Last edited by FarDraft; 12-16-2018 at 12:27 AM.
----- FarDraft, 2020
A lot of ILIs are perfectly able to get laid, they just cannot convince themselves that it is worth it.
Indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Since i had this question too and came to the conclusion that i wasn't ILI but Strong Ni-Lie subtype, how i could differenciate:
Temperament, Ej is restless and hyperactive while Ip can be like a massive black hole in the room that swallows every kind of energy.
Result and Process: Entj (result) comes to conclusions top down, works with a big mental representation of whats happening and goes from the conclusion to the details that lead to them, also it's more stress resistant.
Demonstrative in social interaction, while under people i am confortable with i use a lot of Ne in a playfull way while i simpy don't seem to care about ti.
Interacting with Mirror types or other intertype relationships: With SEE i have activity with SLE benefit SLIs seem to despise me and i seem to supervise a IEI at least i could if i was mean. Also mutual correction and 2 sides of the same coin happen while interacting with ILI while interaction with LIE more started like a teacher student thing and went into concurrence with mutual disstatisfaction soon.
Polr was also a great source do determine, Fe polr should be obvious, when you are being social as LIE you will propably use Fe as a ILI you will not, if you are restless and a bit hyperactive, can't enjoy the moment, and are absolutely unable to bring yourself to relax without drugs or other aids propabliy LIE.
When you casually talk about food and health issues on an average personal distance bringing it up by yourself you are propably ILI.
Hope this could make things clearer also for others who find this with the search function.
, are Intps so much meaner though? Could make sense because to attract a Fi lead you should be hard wired to strive to be decend, for a Se lead it could be a hinderance, but in the descriptions ILIs are often said to be more into Fi matters than LIE due to their hidden agenda
ILI’s have 2D Fi while LIE’s have 1D Fi. This surprised me when I first read it, because I was judging all the ILI’s I knew by how well they seemed to like people (which they do not seem to do because they are FePoLR), but I do believe that ILI’s are better at Fi, which is knowing who and what they like, than are LIE’s.
ILI’s seem to be one step ahead of me in seeing the values in a relationship. I can clearly see this ability in them. SEE’s seem to have monstrous insight into people’s motivations, and ESI’s are just off the scale and out of my ability to comprehend. I don’t understand ESI’s, but I can ask them questions and get answers.
Interesting, yes, one can only imagine how it is not to run around semi blind in relationships, but maybe there is an ESI-guide dog aviable out there.
Shocking how much there is never to comprehend in a lifetime just because you have been born with a different function order.
I will have to take a look at how the strong Fi- Types i know work, maybe i can ask them how they are that good at this.
Is it worth it? I don't see it.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Weak nonvalued Fe means people are not accented on objective value of people as persons. This does not mean they dislike them, they more try do not input emotions (Fe ones mostly) in thoughts about them, to stay emotionally indifferent.
It's similar with role Fe and is more noticable when L*E are tired - they switch to poker faces. Fe types may perceive this as disrespect and inabbility to influence on base Te, which influence Fe types have lesser than it seems as base Te types often play Fe as surface and formal rituals.
There is not significant difference in strenght between weak and strong functions.
Te types value Fi. They prefer personal relation - like you to me, so me to you. Te types real emotionality is switched by this, - when you do something personal good or bad to them. You'll not get loud emotions, but in eyes you'll see what happens inside, also you may expect a justiful return relation.
ILI ain't a cunt
ILI are highly negative and can not stand LIE who are positive
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Actually there's another fact to learn - duals cannot work with each other side by side for the same positivist/negativists reason. Things work bests when duals don't interfere with each other - and normally they sort of don't given their divergent sphere's of interest.
I have personally asked Viktor Gulenko about this - you can ask him yourself, he's got a facebook page etc.
I actually know this from first hand experience both SEE & ESE even don't instinctively understand the mindset of a person that starts dwelling on problems when deriving an answer. They just see it as somebody trying to spoil the enthusiasm - passionate vitriol is amply supplied when they see this.
Something for you to learn is how to STFU. Directly quote what he said then if you’re good buddies, because as far as I know, the point of this positivism/negativism dichotomy is that they balance each other out in a good way. Of course there’s the general clash of opposites that comes with duality but Reinins in isolation are purely complementary.
A piece of evidence towards this is that all ITR only have half of the Reinins in complement, except for duality, which has them all in complementary pairs. So if Gulenko speaks against this he’s wrong af. Gulenko isn’t God. Reinins were made to highlight compatibility.
Last edited by sbbds; 02-19-2019 at 11:40 PM.
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“Emotionally the ILI has a suppressing effect on the LIE. "He as if kills everything that is living," complains about his ILI friend a merry, restless jokesmith LIE, "Around him all the joy of life disappears - all of its vitalizing nutrients evaporate." It is difficult for the LIE to interact with the ILI for a long period of time. ILI's emotional dullness and insipidness takes a heavy toll on him. LIE's ethical aspects are at least held to some norms, while the ILI can be an obnoxious partner for him in this respect - he either depresses LIE's spirits by boredom, disheartenment, and melancholy, or irritates him by sudden outbursts of anger, unethical statements and behavior, and unbridled humor and jokes. And ILI's jokes can be even more shocking than LIE's, even more ill-suited, crude, and indecent (lets recall ILI's famous "black humor"!). ”
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
First of all this is from LIE’s perspective towards ILI, not the other way around which is what we were talking about.
Next, this structurally can’t be the effect of positivism and negativism on their own clashing. ILI is also like that because of Fe polr, and they naturally seek positivism and Fe demonstrative and energy from their duals. LIE has Fe role instead, which takes on a different flavour and can grate against ILI.
ESIs are technically negativists as well and are seen to be killjoys too in some ways by LIE as well, but the point of negativism is to reduce cognitively. It’s not about pessimism although it can appear like that because of the direction of mental focus negativists get into.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Possibly, but it is my belief that experience with your conflictor in the past can really remove the beginning part of the relations in future interactions with new conflictor people. In other words, the more you spend time with any conflictor, the more “allergic” you get to your conflictor in general. I could be wrong but that’s been my experience.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The qualities that conflictor might handle well but also makes fun of is quite serious business for a dual. LIE's are quite adept when trained to bombard people with ridiculous ideas. There is no real moment for wonder.
Whereas tecnically busting something do make SEI's quite amused and ESI's perhaps quite paranoid.
I also see the above description happening in LIE and ILI dynamic.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
It's not that ILI hates LIE positivity. LIE just could be seen as too reckless, ignoring all the possible bad outcomes. ILI are not negative on purpose. They don't like loose in life, it's better to be 100 percent sure of smth or having 5791136644 back up plans if something bad happens. ILI loves comfort and hates to gamble. (and yes, i am ILI, if you are wondering)
I agree, but with a small yet very important caveat. Gambling sucks, but it is better to gamble for a potential total lottery win than it is to take the "safe" route where you only lose a little bit. Losing is losing, and if I have a chance to win rather than lose I'd rather much take the winning option. Besides, ya gotta trust your instincts. dominants have won proverbial empires going off that logic, why stop rolling those dice at the most opportune of moments now when it has always seemed to work out well more often than not according to history?
It's rather easy to tell the two apart.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'd like to resurrect this thread, as I'm experiencing the same dilemma. Narrowed down my type to Gamma NT.
Here is a questionnaire I have attempted and some things I've written.
https://pastebin.com/a3NsP3Lj