INTjs in need of outside motivation

[UDP]

Alright, I'll try to be frank about this, so that it makes sense.


Firstly, we know that INTjs like outside motivation. They themselves cannot create the motivation they desire, which often comes out in an emotional feeling, deep inside. I for one can feel this from certain powerful songs, that I really like and feel are precious to me. I like to be in an inspired state --- or at least one where I have a purpose or goal or something to work towards (Remember, I am an MBTI INTJ, as well).

Secondly, there is an issue with this.
"What the problem is?", so to say. (From some eddie murphy movie, or something)
What the problem is, is that this motivation seems to fade, or dwindle. There are a few reasons, it seems:

• Complete analysis (or "Analysis Complete" ) - there's just nothing left. It's been figured out. Time to move on.
• Lack of 'interest', which may translates into --- boy, I guess I shoudn't have started this, as it is a waste of time.
• Something more important/relevant is found. Or, possibly, a new element or perspective is gained, and as the global/total unit is modified, what you were working on before doesn't seem so important. (I am reminded of the AE quote: "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them". Paradigm shifts, and so fourth.

There are probably more, but that's enough for now.


My matter is this - I cannot seem to find a cause or thing to motivate me in the way I think I should be. I know that sounds strange, and maybe even immature, but that is the best way to put it. Everything I find either:
*doesn't hold up to analysis as a worthy cause, or gets completed
*or underminds the purpose of having a goal and working towards it


For instance -- lately I've been into spirituality, and a lot of questionings. Existential stuff, purpose stuff, questioning the very nature of psyche, interpretation, existence. Deep shit, as they say. But the majority of what that has led me to, is acceepting the peace of the present moment. Which is great - and I can dig that. There is some serious stuff there, and I respect that. But I feel... like I'm missing something still. I can enjoy the peace, but it feels... I feel like at the very least - like I am compelled to share it, or help others get there. So even when it comes to that, I am still looking for "something to do", a purpose or goal or quest.

It is just really difficult for me to find one that doesn't get destroyed by my analysis. But I would really like to find one -- something I could devote myself to, or something that I actually deemed worthy enough. I really like the essence of exploring lifes various things, and I see myself as such, and adventurer and explorer. And I'm trying to incorperate that into a purpose or something. But like I said, I seem to be having some issues here.

Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way, or I am overlooking something. Or maybe I've reached some sort of paradox. But it does feel like something, slightly, is missing. I mean, if my life's goal was just to live at peace, then I would just go to a monestary. I could do that, and that could possibly work out --- if I really felt that is what I should be doing. But I do not feel that way. I feel like I ought to be doing something. Even in terms of service for the community, for humanity, etc. "making the world a better place", even. Whoop-dee-doo, right?
But I really don't think I could be one of those who has a 9-5 job for 45 years, and that's it. That would totally undermind my idiosyncratic personality style, you see.




So I guess that is the long and ..... ....long of it. I've written, sort of taintedly, about this before, but this time I was very outright with my thoughts. Your opinions are welcome.

I suppose that, in our own way, we are all looking for a sort of purpose, and maybe this is just my INTj rendition of it. I will always keep digging for the truth(s), because that is what I do, even if it underminds the peace of the present moment. I know that peace will always be there - and that I don't have to look for anything. I have a spiritual calmness, and I'm cool with that. But in this, the physical world, the world of forms and things to do, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

PS: And yeah, I get that in the physical world, world of forms, that is the whole point - the illusion, in that you will never be satisfied. I understand that. But I at least want to be able to find something that I want to do, or work at. And big problem is my view of intergrity, because I cannot knowingly do something that I think it a complete waste of time, or BS, or similar. But then.... "so what --- should I do nothing then? Because, it could be that 'nothing' is really anything but a waste of time". See, I don't really want to be one of those 'hamsters in a wheel', in a cage. And I suppose I've got way too much pride to accept that I might be, and that we all might be. But even there, I am still not certain about what the truth is. So I'll keep looking, it seems...

[Polly]

Hmm you pose some pretty deep stuff here. In my experience, INTjs who are going through this enlightening stage is like umm...visualize...

An ever expanding box. They get to one level and their thoughts are kind of boxed in then some kind of awareness will finally get through and bang...their box gets bigger.

The box is not "thinking inside the box" as others would think of it. Its just they get to this stage of enlightenment, know they are right about certain things within their scope but seem oblivious to other things which will directly impact their awareness.

for example:

INTj realizes living in the here and now as a sensor has some real major benefits. He/She starts to focus on improving their sensing abilities because that is how they will achieve this goal.

So he/she works diligently on improving these sensing abilities while explaining to others that this is the path to enightenment kind of thing.

What they may miss is that they are creating for themselves all kinds of unnecessary struggles by not using their INTjness to achieve the goal.

It would be the difference of me:

A: Realizing my house is messy and just attempting to clean it like other people do. Yes, I'll eventually get the job done but its not likely to be sustainable. I won't enjoy it and I have a difficult time doing things I don't enjoy.

OR

B: I could devise a system (something I am far more interested in and adept at) to organize my life. Once I put a system in place for something that's a good system, I take pride in it and want it to work. It gives me far more incentive to sustain my organization.

Have I actually improved my sensing abilties? Maybe a little but I get to reap the benefits regardless because I'm organized and don't have that stress in my life.

It's sitting my hiney down, deciding on a system, and getting to it that is still my problem. Once I get on a roll though, I tend to work like mad until the system is designed. Partially, because I'm scared I'll lose interest before its done and I want it completed.

Living in the here and now is important and a necessary thing for some types to practice and be aware of, probably especially ENTp and INTjs. However, just like living in the here and now helps some, sometimes thinking of future possibilities helps keep me at peace. As long as my focus stays on the here and now then I think its ok for me to generate future possibilities.

Besides, its fun and I enjoy it

[UDP]

Paradox, almost:

• I want to find a good cause, one cause that I can devote myself to
  I do not want to waste time on something that is completely insignificant
  I cannot really know the difference if I don't try out somethig (even with theoritical contingency plannings)
  While all along, I am gauging whether or not having such a cause is worth it in the first place

It is almost like I'm stuck between putting it in 1st gear, and putting it in reverse. There seem to be a lot of neutral moments. Some times that feel like I've 'stalled'.


And... it's like one of those logical paradoxes --- both are sort of equal in my eyes, and there is no way to differentiate between the two possibilities. So maybe I'm also searching for a way to help me find out what to do. Meta-data or something.

Looking inwards, to my principles, values, and beliefs helps somewhat - but I've already got that down. That provides so much directoin. Looking outward is not much different.




Hmm, maybe it's like this -- I wish there was somethiing I could believe in. Like an Sj going to church. But I'm not that way, apparently. Don't get me wrong, I'm not depressed or anything. I'm just trying to relate, and throw out ideas. Maybe someone has been this way before, and could provide some insight. If not, don't worry about it.

You could interpret this thread as me asking for directions. I'm not lost, though. I just want to compare maps to make sure I've got a good grasp of things!

[UDP]

(This might not make any sense if you are reading this thread from a linear perspective. This is probably something from another corner of the galaxy)

And it seems like no matter how much I type out here, I can never explain the whole thing. Maybe it's impossible. Maybe I've reached the limit that this method can provide. Maybe this is just like quantum mechnics, (can't remember the specific thing at this momet), but how whatever you observe, it isn't really real, because your observing of it affects it.

Only one facet be shown in the light at one time.


(So, this actually has lead me into reversing my thoughts at times. Instead of making differntiations, I try to "go up one level", and get out of the sub folders.) Reminds me of - from the ground up.

Hey - maybe that sort of fits in with your "box analogy", Polly.


But going back to elminationg the differntiation between things.... I think another part of it is finding something you are cofortable with. If you zoom out all the way, it might make living unbearable. So perhaps I am just coming to terms with what level of things I want to operate at.



Ah, that's too much from me. As you can tell, I should be sleeping now. Maybe more about this later, maybe now. I've made some huge intuitive gaps, jumping around here and there. Wonder if anyone can follow it. That's enough about this thread for... however many hours until I wake up.

over and out

[Polly]

I think these are thoughts that every individual asks themselves at some point.

Maybe not specifically but questions in regards to their direction as they search for their niche in life.

Some people's niche's though are having lots of niche's in life. You may or may not be one of those. I've accepted for myself that I don't have any one niche in life. Somehow, that is related to my purpose.

At least it better be or I'm screwed

[oyburger]

Wow, outside motivation. My husband and I were just talking about that yesterday
"Do I need to just pick a future for you and get everything in place so that you'll do it?'"
"Well, yeah sort of"

I hate that, it makes me seem weak.

As for everything else, I've experienced it at one point or another. I've pretty much given up on doing anything big. I've been in stall for far too long. I just want to do something that makes me happy. Going to a 9-5 job won't cut it as you know.
I'm afraid the things that make me happy, I'm not going to get paid for.

I wish I could give you some advice but it seems I'm in need for some myself.

[UDP]

What I predict doing is reveling more in the moment, as my physical self begins to deteriorate, and with it my seeking for a physical purpose in the physical demension. But for the time being, I'm stubborn, prideful, and have aspirations.

At least I am glad enough to realize this, hopefully I won't get more depressed when people hit a certain age, and then cry to themselves for whatever reasons.


I want to "go off and fight battles!", but I realize that the greatest battle is 'with yourself', so to say. But I am greedy - I feel like I can always return to the peace of the present moment - in that more spiritual way. But I still want to go out, and stray away into having adventures outside of that place.



Perhaps getting a relationship, a more meaningful one, would help. I know I could work on maximizing that, and it would definitely be challenging. But I guess until I come across such, I'll try to put my time in at thinking about the big issues. Maybe something will come along, either person wise or objective / quest wise and I'll get involved. Maybe not. We'll see.

[UDP]

Ah, I just came across something whilst sitting outside, reading in the wonderful sunlight. I won't get into the actual purpose now, more later, I'm sure.


But it was an interesting conclusion --- for me to be really happy and continually have motivation and drive, I likely will need something that I can never "complete". A carrot on a stick, so to say. Or like jogging/biking/training with a really hot girl with a nice ass, who's workout sweatpants are just a little tight.

...

as I was saying,

I would need something greater than myself. Something much larger than my lifetime. Why? Well I am sure you can work something out by thinking about MBTI "J-ness", and other such things. But when I was sitting out there, it really made sense. Such a thing, also, would have to be something worthy enough that I would be willing commit myself to it --- this is a co-requisite I suppose. That I would be willing to play it out every day, and live it out.

That is what I was looking for - something that fit correctly into my mind, in such a way that it would enable me to set up a structure, maintain some sort of routine or discipline, etc. And even though it is a global scale, the item can be implemented even on a simple personal level ---- even if I do just end up with a 9-5 job for 45 years, I could still live it out and play it out, etc. And that is what I was looking for


So I'm actually happy right now (or should I say, at peace, or, relieved). I found an external purpose that can be alingned with my internal purpose. Or perhaps more accurately, I found a missing link between the two. Something that connects the two in a very real way, even in a practical way.


(I know that is all subjective, so thanks for bearing with me there)

[oyburger]

That's a good point about past one's lifetime.

If its something that can fit within the small span of your life then its soon forgotten and therefore of no use to the world.

[UDP]

Yes - very true. I didn't even think of it that way, but it is another qualification.