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Thread: ILI-EII Benefit Relations (INTp & INFj)

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    Default ILI-EII Benefit Relations (INTp & INFj)

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    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Very politically correct, very 'pleasant', very boring. If you were to be more specific I could be too.

    In my experience in friendship, the EII was very nice, gentle, soft spoken and terribly poor at taking any kind of initiative (organization, conversation, etc). Often surprised and a little intimidated by my sometimes arrogant and cynical outlook and from that conflicting debate arose, but it was nice when we were having primarily Fi-Te interactions in which we would ignore eachother's ideological standpoint on things and rather focus on details and the structure of things, i.e. we talked alot about architectural growth in her native country/expanded to speak of technological achievements/advancements throughout the world and what they imply financially and blablabla among other similiar things. Sounds boring, and it was kinda.

    No 'spark' in the relationship, but it was always 'pleasant' and felt nice to speak with the EII. I wouldn't have minded a romantic tinge to it, but there was a complete lack of initiative from both sides though mutual attraction was clear.

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    No experience with relationships. Friendships with EIIs are great to let out some Fi otherwise cynically covered. Though I also often find myself holding back, so as not to scare the EII into retreat - no teasing Se out of them.

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    the only for sure ILI i know is my older half-brother who i've been around intermittently since we met when i was eight. so i don't know if this will be helpful for looking at friendship and romance, but this is the experience i have.

    i find him kind of intimidating. this mostly because:

    a) he makes really quick judgments about people that seem to me to be based on not enough criteria. like he'll say things like, "that guy is wearing a vest; he's a fucking asshole." lol. and it's sort of funny. and he's being sort of tongue-in-cheek about it. but the thing is, he's not entirely joking...he's stated explicitly before that it's easy to figure people out based on these superficial things. like some Ni base + Fi HA thing maybe? and it's kind of scary because i'm like, well i'm wearing black socks today so what does that make me? and what about whatever i choose to wear tomorrow? it makes me feel insecure. this is kind of a dumb little example but it illustrates a bigger sort of outlook that we clash about.

    b)he's very quiet, but you can tell that there's a lot going on in his head. so then i end up speculating about what he's thinking and wondering if he's judging me over some minor thing (see a) and freaking myself out.

    it's easy for us to connect with Fi, like others have said. we both tend to make pretty firm assessments about people (even if he's quicker and more decisive about it), so we have a mutual understanding and acceptance there.

    one thing i think is interesting and endearing is how protective he is of everyone in the family. he does this sort of paternalistic thing where he's super concerned with our safety or whether we're being taken advantage of. it's interesting because it's stands in contrast to how blase he seems to be just normally. but he's like super tense and at-the-ready when it comes to protecting the people he cares about, which i think is sweet.

    i guess as far as "do's and dont's" the only thing i can think of is maybe keeping the assessments of people in check unless they've been well deliberated (but i don't even know if all ILIs do this).
    Last edited by ashlesha; 08-25-2010 at 06:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    The part about judging people for something like a vest is only something I would say if I was just in a feisty mood (which I can be in and will rant about this or that). It's nothing I can see myself saying seriously, though, and I tend to adapt my behavior to whoever I am with, so I would temper that aspect before even giving possibility of offense.
    and that kind of thing can be funny. it depends on context i guess. i'm trying to figure out what it is that changes it from funny to abrasive and i can't pin down anything definable.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I relate to being very protective of family and close friends, primarily where it includes them being stepped on by other people.

    But most ILIs don't really make snap judgments of people over petty matters such as what people wear. I don't, really. Most of my friends don't. Though it's not to say we don't have moments where we notice something and exclaim how stupid it is and being slightly grotesque about it in a rough tone.
    it was just an anecdotal thing about my brother, but trying to stretch it into functions (the Ni-base/Fi-HA thing) was a mistake; its just so easy to play around and find ways for socionics to fit things it probably doesn't. my bad.

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    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    :stalks over to the Caring for Your Delta NF thread:
    I stalked that thread and got nauseous fairly quickly. Proceed with extreme caution. :3

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    (people get that impression a lot from me and I get that impression from other ILIs all of the time, and sometimes it pisses even me off ).
    no! i didn't think you were criticizing me. i was just criticizing myself lol. i'm really self-conscious about talking about socionics because i don't have much experience talking about theoretical stuff. so i'll probably be overly sensitive and self-abasing for awhile until i'm broken in and more used to it haha. so it's just me.

    also i didn't mean i'm bad, just slang for "sorry"

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    You helped me, rather. So thanks again.
    you're welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    :stalks over to the Caring for Your Delta NF thread:
    awwww lol

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    aixelsyd vs laghlagh in this thread - an example of what I meant by ILI scaring EII if not careful

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    aixelsyd vs laghlagh in this thread - an example of what I meant by ILI scaring EII if not careful
    shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    shut up.
    Now that's what I call an emancipated EII :evil:

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    like he'll say things like, "that guy is wearing a vest; he's a fucking asshole."



    The only, fairly close, relationship I had with a, probable, ILI, was back in HS with a friend of mine, who for some reason, preferred communicating with people via MSN Messenger rather than in person. She was really quiet and closed-off in person, never really seemed to care for how she looked and pretty much everything she wore was black.
    She was far more self-critical in person, but made some jabs of people online.
    Our friendship dissolved over the years, mainly because I grew dissolutioned with it and slowly stopped responding to her MSN conversations, I actually just gave-up on online communication in general, it's not fulfilling to me at all and I don't think it accomplishes anything unless I were to have an "in real life" relationship with them, which is something that this particular ILI didn't want to have, at least not at that time in her life

    I could see how they would benefit from someone with an imposing, more , demeanor to get them out of that unresponsive state
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    The only, fairly close, relationship I had with a, probable, ILI, was back in HS with a friend of mine, who for some reason, preferred communicating with people via MSN Messenger rather than in person. She was really quiet and closed-off in person, never really seemed to care for how she looked and pretty much everything she wore was black.
    She was far more self-critical in person, but made some jabs of people online.
    Our friendship dissolved over the years, mainly because I grew dissolutioned with it and slowly stopped responding to her MSN conversations, I actually just gave-up on online communication in general, it's not fulfilling to me at all and I don't think it accomplishes anything unless I were to have an "in real life" relationship with them, which is something that this particular ILI didn't want to have, at least not at that time in her life

    I could see how they would benefit from someone with an imposing, more , demeanor to get them out of that unresponsive state
    This should really be in some "unhealthy ILI" description. I see myself drifting in this direction at times.

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    Captivating conversations and email chats, exchange of numbers, sarcastic commentary about mutual acquaintances. The disappointment sets when meting each other in person, which makes Se/Si differences less ambiguous. This relationship thrives over email, online, text, but contact with corporeal world frustrates and weakens it.

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    Would be very interested to hear more about this particular relationship.

    I have had two prolonged relationships with close-to-sure EII's. One was more outward, random and ''IEE'' like, the other was more inert, calm, Fi-like. I had a better relationship with the Fi one most of the time.

    I always felt a sense of admiration from them, coupled with an inaccessability towards me. They didn't understand me, but they admired and generally liked what they understood. Although, i have been in several strifes with them, they saw me as insensitive and unable to create contact with others, as uncompromising. In a light atmosphere, talk of death, violence and sadness was very upsetting to them. Joking about self-hatred did not sit well with them. Directness in thought should always be tactful, to them. This meant that they felt empowerment when i agreed, attacked when i disagreed. They seemed to want to create a connection, but i would always ''outrage'' them enough to make them give up.

    What they liked best was that they found me amusing and witty, sarcastic and critical. My inner life never interested them, when i did share.

    I see this relationship as being a possible indicator of me not being SLI, but i would like to hear about this relationship in general.

    They did not feel any interest toward my inner life, as the feeling of estrangement and solitude felt alien to them, i think. When it did not involve deeds towards others, it was not worth considering. (in a broad sense)
    Reflection on themselves never took place if not in relation to others, which alienated them from me. They had no interested in the ''nature'' of things if it didn't involve the quality of life for all. The ''great beyond'' has no place in their world because it is loneliness manifest.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being —
    There was Apsû, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found —
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Would be very interested to hear more about this particular relationship.

    I have had two prolonged relationships with close-to-sure EII's. One was more outward, random and ''IEE'' like, the other was more inert, calm, Fi-like. I had a better relationship with the Fi one most of the time.

    I always felt a sense of admiration from them, coupled with an inaccessability towards me. They didn't understand me, but they admired and generally liked what they understood. Although, i have been in several strifes with them, they saw me as insensitive and unable to create contact with others, as uncompromising. In a light atmosphere, talk of death, violence and sadness was very upsetting to them. Joking about self-hatred did not sit well with them. Directness in thought should always be tactful, to them. This meant that they felt empowerment when i agreed, attacked when i disagreed. They seemed to want to create a connection, but i would always ''outrage'' them enough to make them give up.

    What they liked best was that they found me amusing and witty, sarcastic and critical. My inner life never interested them, when i did share.

    I see this relationship as being a possible indicator of me not being SLI, but i would like to hear about this relationship in general.

    They did not feel any interest toward my inner life, as the feeling of estrangement and solitude felt alien to them, i think. When it did not involve deeds towards others, it was not worth considering. (in a broad sense)
    Reflection on themselves never took place if not in relation to others, which alienated them from me. They had no interested in the ''nature'' of things if it didn't involve the quality of life for all. The ''great beyond'' has no place in their world because it is loneliness manifest.
    My mother is ILI. She is a difficult person but I am patient
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    xNTp's tend to see lots of contradictions (regardless of negativism or positivism).
    Usually the point is to go towards very straight forward directions that might give very solid and lasting basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    xNTp's tend to see lots of contradictions (regardless of negativism or positivism).
    Usually the point is to go towards very straight forward directions that might give very solid and lasting basis.
    Nah they are critics to their core and criticize everything around them. If they don’t have someone patient and kind they may not have relationships. Their best tool is to play politics . Fortunately for them there’s no one more patient than INFj and ESFP can turn a deaf ear being their dual. That is why I can tolerate my mom. Even my esfj sister texts me and says “I don’t know how you can deal with her!” I say “I just let her direct and run the show.”
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Would be very interested to hear more about this particular relationship.

    I have had two prolonged relationships with close-to-sure EII's. One was more outward, random and ''IEE'' like, the other was more inert, calm, Fi-like. I had a better relationship with the Fi one most of the time.

    I always felt a sense of admiration from them, coupled with an inaccessability towards me. They didn't understand me, but they admired and generally liked what they understood. Although, i have been in several strifes with them, they saw me as insensitive and unable to create contact with others, as uncompromising. In a light atmosphere, talk of death, violence and sadness was very upsetting to them. Joking about self-hatred did not sit well with them. Directness in thought should always be tactful, to them. This meant that they felt empowerment when i agreed, attacked when i disagreed. They seemed to want to create a connection, but i would always ''outrage'' them enough to make them give up.

    What they liked best was that they found me amusing and witty, sarcastic and critical. My inner life never interested them, when i did share.

    I see this relationship as being a possible indicator of me not being SLI, but i would like to hear about this relationship in general.

    They did not feel any interest toward my inner life, as the feeling of estrangement and solitude felt alien to them, i think. When it did not involve deeds towards others, it was not worth considering. (in a broad sense)
    Reflection on themselves never took place if not in relation to others, which alienated them from me. They had no interested in the ''nature'' of things if it didn't involve the quality of life for all. The ''great beyond'' has no place in their world because it is loneliness manifest.
    My mother likes gossip and small talk. I hate knowing everyone’s business and I don’t care how people live their lives. She talks to her sisters about every drama every day and tells them what to do. This is far from the type of person that I am. I have bigger focus “like making sure I get to work and put a roof over her head” I also don’t like unnecessary things and concerns as I see them to be unnecessary. She says “why don’t I call to find out how the baby is doing but I say she’s in trusted hands so I don’t have to bug the person every second. She says your calling shows that you love your baby. I say no it doesn’t I love my baby no matter what. So in a way she knows love by communication. I know love by being present and taking care in real ways
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Nah they are critics to their core and criticize everything around them. If they don’t have someone patient and kind they may not have relationships. Their best tool is to play politics . Fortunately for them there’s no one more patient than INFj and ESFP can turn a deaf ear being their dual. That is why I can tolerate my mom. Even my esfj sister texts me and says “I don’t know how you can deal with her!” I say “I just let her direct and run the show.”
    Yeah, ILI's can go bezerk when they start to deal with the things once they have moved themselves away from the situation. I kind of see how SEE's might help with that just by basing it on few SEE's who give certain sorts of dark comments about controlling others.
    Anyways, one puzzling thing about ILI is that they might throw idea out of window for the sake of details which is absurd. When I was talking with LSE that those things do not really matter as long as... then ILI comes in and adds something about not following details being the biggest sin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My mother likes gossip and small talk. I hate knowing everyone’s business and I don’t care how people live their lives. She talks to her sisters about every drama every day and tells them what to do. This is far from the type of person that I am. I have bigger focus “like making sure I get to work and put a roof over her head” I also don’t like unnecessary things and concerns as I see them to be unnecessary. She says “why don’t I call to find out how the baby is doing but I say she’s in trusted hands so I don’t have to bug the person every second. She says your calling shows that you love your baby. I say no it doesn’t I love my baby no matter what. So in a way she knows love by communication. I know love by being present and taking care in real ways
    It seems unusual to me that an ILI would be so involved in the affairs of others. Most ILIs I know don't care about drama or anything like that at all. Personally, I don't care what other people do since it usually doesn't affect me in any meaningful way. I may offer guidance to others where I see they fall short, but I would never force my views onto people, especially when their circumstances may be completely different to mine.

    For example, I have, what I suspect to be, an EII sister, though ESI is also possible. Oftentimes, she feels very stressed since she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life after completing her schooling. She is 5 years older than me, so while I try my best to give advice, I have not been in the circumstance she is in. I generally know what I want to do with my life, so I explain to her my process of how I found out, but she says she can't do that. I offer alternative strategies based on the details I know, but I know that she won't feel better because she has to figure out what works for her. So, I often leave her with that, letting her come to her own conclusions.

    Your last comment also seems a bit off to me. Most ILIs find it very difficult to express love through words because of Fe PoLR. The micromanaging you describe could be a Te ego trait, but that is different than expressing love through communication in general.
    Instead, they do things that help others in realistic ways, which expresses their caring about them since doing anything for an ILI is a cost-benefit problem. Thus, if they do something nice for you, then obviously the benefit (for you and them) was greater than the cost.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019

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    Alright, so both my mom and my sister are EII. And while it seems like we get along better than most families usually do, I have to hide a lot of my personality to make that work. I have to mask a lot of my anger and negativity because they both take it personally (even though it doesn't have to do with them) and it ruins their mood. They also wouldn't like my sense of humor so I have to hide that too. So what happens is I'm basically silent a lot of the time and they try to figure out what I'm thinking based off of my facial expressions alone and it gives them anxiety. And one time last year my mom exploded and went on a rant about how I need to talk about my feelings because she doesn't know whether or not I have suicidal depression or something, but anytime I do open up about how I feel she gets butthurt by all of my pessimism and just tells me to "stop being so negative and have a positive outlook" and wants me to shut up. The relationship with my sister is a lot more peaceful and she generally doesn't question or complain about my behavior but actually looks up to me. Both of them like talking about food a lot which grosses me out...and they both watch me carefully to make sure I don't do anything weird because they don't really understand my thought process very much(?). I can't wait to turn 18 so that that sort of behavior dies off...
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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    Would be very interested to hear more about this particular relationship.

    I have had two prolonged relationships with close-to-sure EII's. One was more outward, random and ''IEE'' like, the other was more inert, calm, Fi-like. I had a better relationship with the Fi one most of the time.

    I always felt a sense of admiration from them, coupled with an inaccessability towards me. They didn't understand me, but they admired and generally liked what they understood. Although, i have been in several strifes with them, they saw me as insensitive and unable to create contact with others, as uncompromising. In a light atmosphere, talk of death, violence and sadness was very upsetting to them. Joking about self-hatred did not sit well with them. Directness in thought should always be tactful, to them. This meant that they felt empowerment when i agreed, attacked when i disagreed. They seemed to want to create a connection, but i would always ''outrage'' them enough to make them give up.

    What they liked best was that they found me amusing and witty, sarcastic and critical. My inner life never interested them, when i did share.

    I see this relationship as being a possible indicator of me not being SLI, but i would like to hear about this relationship in general.

    They did not feel any interest toward my inner life, as the feeling of estrangement and solitude felt alien to them, i think. When it did not involve deeds towards others, it was not worth considering. (in a broad sense)
    Reflection on themselves never took place if not in relation to others, which alienated them from me. They had no interested in the ''nature'' of things if it didn't involve the quality of life for all. The ''great beyond'' has no place in their world because it is loneliness manifest.
    I agree with @Beautiful sky, this sounds more like ILI. However I do share some of what you said due Fe PoLR and my suggestive function being Ne not Fi.

    EIIs do tend to share their admiration for people. I also find they (especially my EII gf) have hard time truly getting me, however, this friend always had the external disposition to verbally agree with me (even if she deeply inside didnt agree with me at all). I found that at first nice, but over the years, it turned annoying. Especially I suppose, because I knew my semi dual and dual. EIIs have this natural disposition to agree and be comprehensive. But that's not what I need the most, but someone who were actually able to disagree with me and in an ethical way, to show me a different or wider perspective. That's really valuable and important for me, not someone who agrees with me all the time because she thinks that's something nice to hear for me. I'm not so egocentric neither so easily flapped internally as for needing or wanting someone like that. The best thing I get with my dual and semi dual are the moments when we laugh of ourselves. My inner life interested them deeply as they always wanted to know more about me since they seem troubled since I turned to be kinda unpredictable and kinda unreadable for them (j vs p). But I turned more uninterested in sharing with them over the time due the lack of feedback. When I reach to external sources to share information, is because I'm hoping to get some new and different side, otherwise it'd be better to just keep in my opinions, thoughts and concerns. That's different of what Fi leads do.


    In the other hand, I think ExTjs do really need Fi since they need that reliability and emotional support that only a rational (j) ethical type like EII could provide. With the infinite patience of listening to their problems and agree with their views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I agree with @Beautiful sky, this sounds more like ILI. However I do share some of what you said due Fe PoLR and my suggestive function being Ne not Fi.

    EIIs do tend to share their admiration for people. I also find they (especially my EII gf) have hard time truly getting me, however, this friend always had the external disposition to verbally agree with me (even if she deeply inside didnt agree with me at all). I found that at first nice, but over the years, it turned annoying. Especially I suppose, because I knew my semi dual and dual. EIIs have this natural disposition to agree and be comprehensive. But that's not what I need the most, but someone who were actually able to disagree with me and in an ethical way, to show me a different or wider perspective. That's really valuable and important for me, not someone who agrees with me all the time because she thinks that's something nice to hear for me. I'm not so egocentric neither so easily flapped internally as for needing or wanting someone like that. The best thing I get with my dual and semi dual are the moments when we laugh of ourselves. My inner life interested them deeply as they always wanted to know more about me since they seem troubled since I turned to be kinda unpredictable and kinda unreadable for them (j vs p). But I turned more uninterested in sharing with them over the time due the lack of feedback. When I reach to external sources to share information, is because I'm hoping to get some new and different side, otherwise it'd be better to just keep in my opinions, thoughts and concerns. That's different of what Fi leads do.


    In the other hand, I think ExTjs do really need Fi since they need that reliability and emotional support that only a rational (j) ethical type like EII could provide. With the infinite patience of listening to their problems and agree with their views.
    This was very nice. Thanks.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being —
    There was Apsû, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found —
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
    The gods were created within them:

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    We talk a lot about Fi-Te stuff, like people's personalities and human psychology. From the outside, it seems like we are close. But we aren't really that close. Oftentimes, we don't catch up for months at the time because both of us lack initiative in those sorts of things. When we do spend time together, we don't talk about our goals or dreams, but rather, we talk about the people in our lives. We delve into their mental state. It's a fun exercise for me, for she has great insight in that field. But sometimes I find myself imposing myself on her. For example, she wouldn't have told me she was dating a guy until I asked her how her day was. Because I know she wouldn't indulge in personal information, I would have to go all Sherlock Holmes on her. If I was her dual, then we wouldn't have the conversations like "you gotta tell me this stuff!" and she would laugh nervously and not apologize. Otherwise, we are polite and encouraging with each other's endeavors, keeping the other at a distance. Talking to her feels nice, but also tiring because I got to initiate everything. If I don't, nothing gets done. So, sometimes I don't initiate anything, which leads to disappointment. So, it's a nice, polite, boring, and slightly disappointing friendship.

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    Friend is ILI, all the advice given in the relationship comes from him and is given to me, mostly about how to move forward in life. He is also much older than me. I dated ILI once and she wanted to learn alot about people and making friends from me, it was more of a relationship where I discussed and taught her typology. She helped me with things like expenses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prowthin View Post
    Alright, so both my mom and my sister are EII. And while it seems like we get along better than most families usually do, I have to hide a lot of my personality to make that work. I have to mask a lot of my anger and negativity because they both take it personally (even though it doesn't have to do with them) and it ruins their mood. They also wouldn't like my sense of humor so I have to hide that too. So what happens is I'm basically silent a lot of the time and they try to figure out what I'm thinking based off of my facial expressions alone and it gives them anxiety. And one time last year my mom exploded and went on a rant about how I need to talk about my feelings because she doesn't know whether or not I have suicidal depression or something, but anytime I do open up about how I feel she gets butthurt by all of my pessimism and just tells me to "stop being so negative and have a positive outlook" and wants me to shut up. The relationship with my sister is a lot more peaceful and she generally doesn't question or complain about my behavior but actually looks up to me. Both of them like talking about food a lot which grosses me out...and they both watch me carefully to make sure I don't do anything weird because they don't really understand my thought process very much(?). I can't wait to turn 18 so that that sort of behavior dies off...
    Sounds to me like you're trying a bit too hard. For instance, I get the pessimism, trust me I live it day in day out. But just because shit's fucked today doesn't mean it's fucked in a decade or so. Short term pessimism, but long term optimism. That's my order of the day. Tell them that your "positive" outlook is in terms of decades and centuries out instead of in days, weeks, or even years out like they tend to think in. No way in fucking HELL can you be "optimistic" right now because, well, can they not see how fucked shit is for the immediate future? However, on a longer timeline that they're not paying any attention to, things are gonna be pretty damn sweet far as you're concerned. The immediate future is bleak as all fuck, but the far future is still bright.

    That'll fly right over their heads by a geosynchronous orbit but hey, that's just another level of satisfaction. Well, it is for me at least . It is kind of the point of a benefit relationship. You have something they want that comes so naturally to you you don't even realize it could be that valuable to them, but yet it is. They want that prophesy that tells them it's all going to be alright so bad it hurts. Package it a bit better and you'll have them eating out of your hand without much effort.

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    One thing I do notice with my ILI friend is, when we don't see each other for sometime and then meet up again, he always asks me "What's new?" and if I have nothing to say he gets really disappointed and frustrated. Like he is searching for some new stimuli and I'm failing at giving him it. So in that sense he might think I am boring. Before our relationship was very Benefactor/Benefactee. He got me my first fulltime job, even drove me to my job until I got my own car, and he also used to give me rides everywhere and people used to joke that he was my father. Now that I have become more independent, most of the time our relationship is just me making jokes and him trying to build on top of them.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    This is the typical discussion between my mom and I. I go to the fridge and see that healthy food is still in there which means she’s not eating it. I say “mom you should eat the avocado today” shesays “it’s not the TIME for that.” I say “mom, I don’t mean right now. I mean today sometime. Eat it because it’s got healthy fats.” She says “okay later. It’s the morning and I have oatmeal.” I say okay and leave forthe day.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  29. #29
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    Now im living with that ili brother lol.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    My mom and I

    Me: mom, let’s make Pierogi
    Her: I’ll boil the potatoes and get the filling ready
    Next day
    Me: should we make the Pierogi now?
    Her: don’t you have something more important to do. This is not the time to do this
    Me: we can have it for dinner and I can fold it
    Her: reluctantly gets all the ingredients out and is snaring at me and her tone is one of a bad mood, upset, ready to tell you everything that’s wrong with you.
    Two hours later
    Her: wow the dough came out great. We need to put the oil on the stove and see you need to oil your hands .
    I’m watching all this is going well but still can’t understand why she was so impatient before (2 hours ago).
    We fry a few of these and she says
    Her: oh I should make some for your sister’s son. He loves them and he’s going to be home alone tomorrow. I forgot.
    She makes two batches and we all have some for dinner.

    I’m looking at her thinking “you’re always complaining about how I use my time inefficiently but if it wasn’t for me you wouldn’t have a delicious dinner and you wouldn’t have made extra for your grandson.” A lot of the time I have to remain patient as my mother goes through her super critical blaming, accusing, belittling, stage and just say “she will be in a great mood once dinner is ready and she can have something tasty to eat.”

    This relationship is difficult for me. Probably great for her
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  31. #31
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    So EII has difficulty with Te/Ni Ni/Te combination in how they determine is the right time to act. This combination tells EII "this you should do now, this you will have time to do later". EII with his creative intuition perhaps knows better what he will have time to do now and what he can do later.
    Above and my quote from a small activity with my mom about how we utilize our time is a great example of our clash of Ni.

    "He feels uncomfortable when someone attempts to manage his time and switch him from one task to another."

    I feel very very uncomfortable when my mother tries to dictate to me the "right times" for doing things because for goodness sake I get things done. May not be in the kind of time that she sees but I get things done.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  32. #32
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    Cuz ni polr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    So EII has difficulty with Te/Ni Ni/Te combination in how they determine is the right time to act. This combination tells EII "this you should do now, this you will have time to do later". EII with his creative intuition perhaps knows better what he will have time to do now and what he can do later.
    Above and my quote from a small activity with my mom about how we utilize our time is a great example of our clash of Ni.

    "He feels uncomfortable when someone attempts to manage his time and switch him from one task to another."

    I feel very very uncomfortable when my mother tries to dictate to me the "right times" for doing things because for goodness sake I get things done. May not be in the kind of time that she sees but I get things done.
    However, wrt Te/Ni don't u find things r generally smoother sailing with LIEs? I have been set back on my plans to make Ne changes several times by ILIs, tho never (that im aware of) by LIE. I was also wondering, how do you think ILI benefits EIIs? Thanks Maritsa!
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    However, wrt Te/Ni don't u find things r generally smoother sailing with LIEs? I have been set back on my plans to make Ne changes several times by ILIs, tho never (that im aware of) by LIE. I was also wondering, how do you think ILI benefits EIIs? Thanks Maritsa!
    Hi De - light -ful
    play on words haha

    ILI benefits from EII in that we are forgiving, providers, and caring. I will work hard to put a room over my mother's head, I will tolerate abuse just for the big picture (so that she can always be secure -financially), I will be the one to take her to doctor's offices if I feel that someone is misusing her and not giving her the care she needs; I will grocery shop, clean the house, I will do all of it. Bring it on. They benefit from my love, relationship steadfastness, from my quiet, nonjudgemental, yet highly ethical way of existing.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Hi De - light -ful
    play on words haha

    ILI benefits from EII in that we are forgiving, providers, and caring. I will work hard to put a room over my mother's head, I will tolerate abuse just for the big picture (so that she can always be secure -financially), I will be the one to take her to doctor's offices if I feel that someone is misusing her and not giving her the care she needs; I will grocery shop, clean the house, I will do all of it. Bring it on. They benefit from my love, relationship steadfastness, from my quiet, nonjudgemental, yet highly ethical way of existing.
    Thanks, however i was actually wondering about the opposite tho: instead of the ways in which EII benefits ILI i wanted to read about the ways in which ILI benefits EII since ILI is EII's benefactor.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    i wanted to read about the ways in which ILI benefits EII since ILI is EII's benefactor.
    read this IR description

    if you want about practical case - types which you think are most probably other, so you'll cant to apply the theory
    you'd better do not used Socionics theory until you'd understood correctly at least own type and checked it by IR effects with close people, what you did not. you need a minimal qualification in types to use them. you have no it and what you are doing is random usages of what you do not understand at all
    also seems you have troubles with understanding the theory in general. alike in this case you ask about basics - what suborderie as EII gets good from ILI. it's just a common theory, but you ask about it on the forum what is strange
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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