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Thread: Article: Duality Relations ISFj and ENTj by Stratiyevskaya

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Wow, that's great. Btw I wonder if most of the idiots and time wasters have same sociotypes.
    Well not all​ ESE's are idiots, presumably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    To me, the most remarkable thing about those relationships was that they felt like "nothing at all."
    It's very true that duals feel like that. No need to impress them, or force yourself to be someone else. Unfortunately that can bring the differences to the fore.

    You probably meet duals most days of the week. You just don't notice them most of the time. But when you're down, depressed and burnt out, then being with them feels very relieving. Most people look for someone who can feed their ego(hot bodies, passion, someone who can understand their ego functions and values, give social status, security and whatnot), not some lukewarm unconditional simple relationship that makes living on this earth not hell anymore. One day, you wake up to realize duals have been there all along and you've been chasing a fanstasm that brought only pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I wish I had met her when I was twenty. I wouldn’t have wasted all this time.
    Didn't you say that when you were young you thought feelers were stupid? The right time to meet the right people is when you're ready to accept them... and ready to accept that part of yourself(Fi).

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    ESI-LIE Duality: Love and, for, and of money. And I'm OK with that.

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    its not love. u are not ok u are 1D Fi so u cant process how bad it is. it really does seem to me duality just can't be it.
    muscle function, cranial plates posture, personality, cognition and mental illness


    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    I would never marry for money. I would marry someone who can help me make my own money, though.
    Last edited by Great; 10-16-2021 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Great View Post
    I would never marry for money. I would marry someone who can help me make my own money, though.
    I've been thinking about something along those lines. I think that plays an important part in ESI-LIE duality because ESI needs nuanced Te help. I don't think ESIs would respect LIEs who are cash dispensers but not advice dispensers.

    What sort of help would you seek or want? What do you struggle with? What do other people do well that holds you back?

    I'd like your thoughts on this before I share mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    its not love. u are not ok u are 1D Fi so u cant process how bad it is. it really does seem to me duality just can't be it.
    It's superficial acceptance. When LIEs are actually in contact with such a situation, they (often, but not always) reject it by running away and claiming they are too busy with work. They might even start camping out at work overnight, book a hotel near work (because they are supposedly so busy) or taking an assignment far away to create space (and time to think). They don't terminate the relationship in outright words because they're 1D Fi and Victim type.

    They can only create interpersonal space (Fi) to pursue and space to fight (Se) so that their dual can do what they're good at: close the gap with integrity and enforce the new relationship dynamic with Se. LIEs create this situation by using up more time with work.

    Eventually, their partner has to drag them back home and have a fight with them.

    LIEs want to be sought and pursued like all the other victim types. They want someone with integrity to say "I don't care about your money. I only want you, you idiot. Even if you have X flaw. And Y flaw. And Z flaw. And a whole bunch of other flaws. But I still want you. Because you also have A trait, B trait and C trait. And I'm not going anywhere unless you look me in my eyes and tell me that you don't want me." Because that's how ESIs can best assess the truth - they have 4D Fi and 4D Si.

    But this doesn't happen as easily if LIEs are in a subculture where relationships for money is seen as normal. There they struggle a LOT more internally. Then they'll create crazy pre-nups with bizarre clauses (as opposed to the sane ones) based on what they think they want. But really, what they want is someone who renders the prenup unnecessary.
    Last edited by Audacious; 10-23-2021 at 06:55 PM.

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    @Audacious, what do ESIs want from LIEs? Specifically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Audacious View Post
    What sort of help would you seek or want? What do you struggle with? What do other people do well that holds you back?
    Right now, I could use some help with learning how to identify hand and power tools for an upcoming job interview. I don't know how specific they are going to get.

    So, in socionics terms... TeNi?
    Last edited by Great; 10-23-2021 at 09:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Audacious View Post
    I've been thinking about something along those lines. I think that plays an important part in ESI-LIE duality because ESI needs nuanced Te help. I don't think ESIs would respect LIEs who are cash dispensers but not advice dispensers.

    What sort of help would you seek or want? What do you struggle with? What do other people do well that holds you back?

    I'd like your thoughts on this before I share mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Audacious View Post
    It's superficial acceptance. When LIEs are actually in contact with such a situation, they (often, but not always) reject it by running away and claiming they are too busy with work. They might even start camping out at work overnight, book a hotel near work (because they are supposedly so busy) or taking an assignment far away to create space (and time to think). They don't terminate the relationship in outright words because they're 1D Fi and Victim type.

    They can only create interpersonal space (Fi) to pursue and space to fight (Se) so that their dual can do what they're good at: close the gap with integrity and enforce the new relationship dynamic with Se. LIEs create this situation by using up more time with work.

    Eventually, their partner has to drag them back home and have a fight with them.

    LIEs want to be sought and pursued like all the other victim types. They want someone with integrity to say "I don't care about your money. I only want you, you idiot. Even if you have X flaw. And Y flaw. And Z flaw. And a whole bunch of other flaws. But I still want you. Because you also have A trait, B trait and C trait. And I'm not going anywhere unless you look me in my eyes and tell me that you don't want me." Because that's how ESIs can best assess the truth - they have 4D Fi and 4D Si.

    But this doesn't happen as easily if LIEs are in a subculture where relationships for money is seen as normal. There they struggle a LOT more internally. Then they'll create crazy pre-nups with bizarre clauses (as opposed to the sane ones) based on what they think they want. But really, what they want is someone who renders the prenup unnecessary.
    gammas enter delusions of superiority that everythings alright they are doing fine and anything that tries to get them off track stupid track they step on. im the least contributing to whatever shit they got into and they have to berate me for my mentality when im trying to reason with them. example is Nietzsche, example is my german ILI teacher who refused to protest about her issues and was giving us a tiny bit of shit (i do recognize much less than other teachers who werent even in as bad as her position, but her mentality was not justifiable). Example is Elon Musk who berated his wife for being not hard working and self sacrifical as him. Then forces his children to go through hardship so they respect him. is that his way of seeking love you say? how stupid do u have to be. i cant even argue with them.
    example is the ESI im talking to who wont give me options regarding how to interact with him bc no matter what i do its wrong if i do the opposite its wrong. i got that he wants me to fight him it took me so much time its true im retarded but. this shouldnt even be a thing. he blocked me for fighting him for him. he'd stop talking to me for leaving him alone too. those are the kind of peolpe who indulge in self destructive habits then when im struggling force me to do or not do things where as if i forced them it would be toxic. how much of a brat can u be. he gets blamed by everyone else for being selfish (they are selfish its retarded) for having emotions and being hurt.

    do you know why ESIs dont say what they want? because they dont know. since being sensors instead of intuitiives prevents them from seeing the bigger picture about themselves and the world, and figuring things out.
    it seems no matter what LIEs always need more time to think. they are both victim types who want to be chased by someone.

    ESIs can be manipulative where they dont tell u when they dont tell u how exactly they feel about something to keep things peace. This makes it impossible to distinguish between if they are that OR feel insufficient/undeserving hence push someone away. if u get attention u may not want u would feel bitter and snappy about it but not say if its bc its too soon or ur not interested in general or whatever ur deal is. ESIs cringe when someone does something they dont like or understand. the problem is they dont communicate why and if they do its usually not a good reason that limits what i can do or say greatly.

    ESI was manipulating money off of ppl who "loved" her. them being blind to what love means trying to buy it may show her they deserve to be manipulated or something. maybe they are seeing u as superificially trying to buy sex from them which is a turn off.
    they want u to show they are sensitive and also straightforward. they probably want u to be awkward and not take much space with ur expression so that u dont intimidate them. this is true for EIIs as well.
    1D Ne makes ESI wary of creepers. as u cant know if the ESI is uncomfortable bc u are doing something wrong or bc they are self conscious u have to get that out the way first and tell them.
    Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 10-25-2021 at 03:20 AM.
    muscle function, cranial plates posture, personality, cognition and mental illness


    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    gammas enter delusions of superiority that everythings alright they are doing fine and anything that tries to get them off track stupid track they step on. im the least contributing to whatever shit they got into and they have to berate me for my mentality when im trying to reason with them. example is Nietzsche, example is my german ILI teacher who refused to protest about her issues and was giving us a tiny bit of shit (i do recognize much less than other teachers who werent even in as bad as her position, but her mentality was not justifiable). Example is Elon Musk who berated his wife for being not hard working and self sacrifical as him. Then forces his children to go through hardship so they respect him. is that his way of seeking love you say? how stupid do u have to be. i cant even argue with them.
    I must point out once more that you can and ought to practice better formatting. I know you can so please do so and thus make yourself look smarter and less irrational thereby.

    As for your negative experience with Gamma quadra types, well, they're pretty fucking broken. I keep on mentioning attachment issues but that's because that's the major variable in regards to how things will unfold. If I (a broken but currently trying hard as they can to fix themselves ILI) had an IEI on my "team" in a project I'd run my responses to some problematic group past them. I suck at and an IEI is, by contrast, damned good at it and I am now humble enough to admit where my weaknesses lie. I will at least invite them into my private quarters to discuss how I best ought to say something (perhaps harsh) to everyone. This is how the greatest commanders operate. Accolades are to be given in public and reprimands in private. Likewise, the ideal commander asks for deep advice in private and executes upon it in public.

    I hope you can see past your hatred of me and give me an honest/constructive response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ESI-LIE Duality: Love and, for, and of money. And I'm OK with that.
    Depends on how you define what "money" is and its proper place in regards to your relationships, society, and civilization.

    If you think both ESI's and LIE's can and often do enter into things as significant as covenants of marriage because of mere dosh you're both still suffering from major attachment issues. Not saying that doesn't happen, but it isn't exactly a thing unique to our quradra. Mammon can be a prime motivator for all types after all.

    It's one thing to be OK with an arranged marriage. Hell, my new favorite romance Manga is basically about an arranged marriage between a broken ILI and a healthy SEE. But that wasn't the context either of them viewed it from and it was the ILI's display of earnest concern for his dual that caused her to believe in him and accept him as her ideal partner.

    I don't know exactly how to put the ideal ILI/SEE romance, but it seems to be related towards the earnest seeking displayed by the other. I might try to refuse her hand, but she won't have that. She'll grab mine and drag me towards happiness. If I am unbroken and healthy I'll allow her to do that. Such may be a similar dynamic in regards to your own dual...

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