Results 1 to 37 of 37

Thread: Article: Duality Relations ESTp and INFp by Stratiyevskaya

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Article: Duality Relations ESTp and INFp by Stratiyevskaya

    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


  2. #2
    We are approximately 40% related to mice. Bone Dollar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    TIM
    ESFp-8w9
    Posts
    110
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Question Questions regarding SLE female and IEI male duality (INFp-ESTp)

    Questions regarding SLE/ESTp Female and IEI/INFp Duality:
    Thanks and all assistance is greatly apprecaited!

    Warning: I am not trying to offend any personality types or make generalizations, and I apologize if anyone is. I am just curious about the subject.

    What does this description by Stratiyevskaya mean, I thought ESTps were aggressors and initiative in attraction? A few statements I am specifically (bolded) confused about, I would appreciate if people could elaborate on what I highlighted and share their opinion if they view it as an accurate characteristic of the beta duality.

    -Why is this caused by a spoiled IEI, and is the SLE really "patient, loyal, selflessly devoted woman"?

    -Why is the situation further agrravated the longer the relation remains "uncertain"?

    -"On the hook", what the ****, would an ESTp female really put up with being "on the hook"?!?

    -Why and how do the ESTp female become more ethically dependent on the IEI male? Does the ESTp female look at the IEI male for ethical guidances and right or wrong?

    -Is this duality more common between SLE logicial subtype and IEI ethical subtype?


    Under which conditions does this happen? Most often this occurs when the IEI is a spoiled, over-pampered man with elevated self appraisal, while the SLE is a patient, loyal, selflessly devoted woman who takes on the function not only of his wife but also that of his mother (we have already discussed such an example). It is clear from the first glance that this is not the most beneficial and successful coupling. The situation is further aggravated the longer their relations remain ethically and socially uncertain. Let's recall that the first mistake of the SLE woman in our previous example has been that she was in a hurry to legalize her relations. And she is not the only one who commits such a mistake. For a SLE woman, as for any other woman of logical-sensing type of the second quadra, it is very important to consolidate her relations with a certain social status. This is understandable: she strives to reinforce her weak ethical and intuitive aspects with her stronger aspects of sensing and "localized" logic of relations (logic of "systems" or "hierarchical structures"). That is, the reasoning here goes something like this: "It's not clear how our relations will develop, but at least there will be a stamp in the passport. Then he won't be able to simply leave me. I'll take it up to local union/court - I will find him anywhere ..." Such a straightforward and ambitious partner may resort to any means and make any sacrifices and concessions in order to "get the man" that she wants.

    But here the IEI won't be in a hurry, because it will be important for him to first secure his own influence. He finds himself in a situation where his every wish is being met, and even makes his partner beg him for this "favor". Acting in this manner he intuitively "out-plays" his partner, keeps her "on the hook", and sets his own pace and tone to the development of their relations. At this stage, the IEI may be tempted to fall into a role of a pampered, moody child who pulls and pulls from his "good aunt/mother" (as much as it's permitted by his "intuition of possibilities" which outlines for him the "permissible limit" of what he can get).

    Here it would be nice for the SLE to apply his "knowledge of life", to assess the situation from the point of view of "opposition of partners", to understand that he is being tested and invited to measured up his skill. This is the situation to use his authoritarian tone and to "show who's boss". And how could it be otherwise? Should he tolerate the tantrums of his dual? Give in to the demonstrative sentimentality? We have already seen where this will lead him. Here what is important is the level of development of SLE's normative "intuition of possibilities" (channel 3-7): will he pick up "which way the wind is blowing" and notice that his partner is testing him for how easily he will give in, by which the IEI also asserts his own rights to all-permissiveness?

    In the meantime, the situation becomes more complicated ethically. The SLE becomes more and more ethically vulnerable to and dependent on the IEI. Besides, the SLE is very limited in his actions: certain ethical inertness and straightforwardness typical of the representative of this type prevent them from changing their tactics at the right time (especially since they aren't always able to sense the "right time"). Again, a SLE woman may decide to not force things due to gender roles: "a woman should not impose herself on the man". In this respect SLE men have certain advantages: they can take their dual "by the storm" giving the IEI little time to think things over. SLE woman cannot press things in such a manner, especially if she holds herself to typical gender prejudices. Thus, an IEI man is often able to "stretch out the time", and therefore subordinate his partner to his will and wishes and restrain her by fear: "who knows if we'll get married or not?" She, in the meanwhile, grows nervous and painfully aware of her ambiguous position (in understanding of the second quadra), and at the same time she starts developing a way to "guarantee" her future; for example, she may even become pregnant to oblige him to marry her.

    Even the IEI men? For them this sometimes manifests this even more vividly than for IEI women. It is clear that such an emotional range practically deprives the SLE of any ethical initiatives (and this is another aspect of these dual relations). It is clear that on emotional-ethical plane the SLE is not only relaxed by the IEI but also almost hypnotized by him. (Zhukov relaxes and becomes suggested by the aspect of "intuition of time" which is the "program" aspect of the IEI.) IEI's emotions have a fascinating and alluring effect on the SLE; the SLE is not only open but also helpless before them.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12,633
    Mentioned
    1159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Stratiyevskaya is not authoritative source to discuss it in details. While socionics books are interesting only for basic theory.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  4. #4
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,410
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'll review this when I get home
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Zhukov essentially has Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASP) and with that information along with proper research into the disorder (merely drawn as a parallel instead of an actual diagnosis), anyone of any personality type can successfully take his powerful, destructive ass down and render him powerless.



    It's taken almost my entire adult lifetime to be able to give this assertion.
    Last edited by IBTL; 01-09-2016 at 10:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,410
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Lol
    ASP perfectly encapsulates all of Zhukov's flaws into a single entity ... full disclosure ... like magic!

    In real life, I tend to be much more practical and skeptical than other IEIs, so without my rose-tinted glasses on, I do in fact understand Zhukov as the quintessential embodiment of ASP.

    But being the hopeless romantic, idealistic NF and Vortical Synergistic cognitive IEI that I am, I will make a counteroffer of Disney's Lady and The Tramp as the gentle, G-rated version of IEI and SLE duality and simply as "good" as it gets - a particular set of dynamics for Esenin and Zhukov to aspire to.



    Last edited by IBTL; 01-09-2016 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Haha ... Zhukov has ASP while Esenin is a covert emotional manipulator.
    Last edited by IBTL; 01-10-2016 at 06:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,410
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IBTL View Post
    Haha ... Zhukov has ASP while Esenin is a covert emotional manipulator.
    How else will trust be created and the tug of initial pull get them together in the beginning?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  10. #10
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The SLE women is one of the most gender neutral types there is. I do not believe them identify heavily with gender. IEI male I have not seen so many examples of.

    But I do not think IEI male to be the dick of the world of all the types. I think them would theoretically be kind of neutral when all comes around. Duality work so that SLE have a 3d and 4d egoblock which is a weakness of the IEI whom borrow the strength of SLE to cover up weakspots and verse versa.

  11. #11
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE-H 8w9 SX
    Posts
    2,810
    Mentioned
    281 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Israel Capitan View Post
    the dick of the world of all the types
    this wording
    [Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.

    It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.

  12. #12
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    this wording
    It happens. Taking it out of its context and it make no sense.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12,633
    Mentioned
    1159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    I do not believe them identify heavily with gender.
    People have "sex" identity, while the term "gender" is nonsense for normal people. As for common women social role/duty, the main are to born children, to rise them and care about home. ESTP women want to do this not lesser than women of other types. They do it in authoritarian and active style, what traditions relate to men. Mostly because of pre-industrial culture when women were limited due to constant pregnancy and the need to care about many children, while men had much more possibilities to be leaders and for external activity.
    I had ESTP grandmother, she was like a home commander. Liked to be leader everywhere, was severe sometimes. Family had all they needed on material level, but not much of kind words. She had no problems with socialization being ESTP-woman and there was no general thought about her as inappropriate. Some men could like this in women, other not, - nothing special.

    But I do not think IEI male to be the dick of the world of all the types.
    Yes. I described ESTP-woman example I saw close. Similarly there are no problems for INFP-men just because of their type. To fit average social requirements, where most people live, type is not a serious limitation.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  14. #14
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,410
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Okay I'm ready now

    Some time ago a certain SLE physical trainer became very interested in me trough online dating. He lived in the east coast but was considering moving to California. He was well off because he sold his house and purchased another in the Foothill mountains area, which is a very expensive area. I want to recall our interaction while we were dating. First off he seemed very ethical person and very accommodating. He loved food and all sorts of sensory experience and he was quite adventurous. He loved the idea of being the strong person so he really love sort of delicate, shy, quiet women (I am all these things). Because of his strong ethics he often spoke about being a devoted husband and what he would do to be a provider, the man of the house. I mistook all these things for my dual of course, mostly because I was young to socionics and all the values seemed to point to ST but more towards extraversion but back then I didn't know how to discern J from P. Such a small difference but so huge in the outcome.

    So yes, SLE are family men. They want to be the man with strong will to their wife but they are not controlling of the plan or things to do as LSE are. SLE take quick and direct action to be with someone. He moved within weeks and took up a job here within weeks and was so well established in almost no time. That was just so quick. My duals would not be so quick, they have to take action only when they think about everything and they don't let their emotions control their logic. I feel like SLE, though a logical type, do let that happen.

    "-"On the hook", what the ****, would an ESTp female really put up with being "on the hook"?!?"
    I don't know what you're trying to ask here

    "-Why and how do the ESTp female become more ethically dependent on the IEI male? Does the ESTp female look at the IEI male for ethical guidances and right or wrong?"

    All ethical types make moral and some kind of judgement on actions and values. ESTp wants to align their own values to someone to have a solid framework of the sameness feeling. They care about ethics yes.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  15. #15
    Chacha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    France
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    45
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post

    -Why and how do the ESTp female become more ethically dependent on the IEI male? Does the ESTp female look at the IEI male for ethical guidances and right or wrong?
    SLE doesn't give a damn about right or wrong and morals. SLE is just a bit direct and harsh in its speech, and way to communicate with people. The IEI is gentle, tactful and refined, and that's what the SLE needs and admire.
    SLE needs to be more tactful about the way they express themselves, even though they are right about defending their terriroty and will, they can be kinda mean doing it. What they need is just to be more tactful and socially appropriate while doing so, and that's how the Diplomatic IEI can be useful.

    Then Introverted Ethics are little concern for both types.

    I didn't understand the rest of your questions.

  16. #16
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Id like to know how to hunt down female SLE, how to dress, what accessories to take their attention, what venues to look at, what is the bait that make them stop doing what they doing?

  17. #17
    meme hotline Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    TIM
    ethic 3
    Posts
    9,082
    Mentioned
    714 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Id like to know how to hunt down female SLE, how to dress, what accessories to take their attention, what venues to look at, what is the bait that make them stop doing what they doing?
    You don't hunt down an SLE, the SLE hunts you :3 Using their cuteness



    Don't count on gender socialization, the SLE girls don't care.
    Everything else goes against their nature unless you are dealing with a strong Ti-subtype and an SP/SO variant. Which is unlikely, SLE is the quintessential SX/__.

    The more deliberate you are, the less you sport the `victim allureī that an SLE loves and needs. Venue, clothes, techniques, forget it. Ni is the eternal true Se magnet, everything else is not exciting enough. You either have it or you don't when dealing with an aggressor type. Your only hope is that because INFp men are so rare, the female SLE radar is extended and checks out Fe types, too. Same with my duals, all the countless SEEs are dead inside as ILIs are statistically unicorns* and their relationships do not fulfil their subconscious wants. That's why they look for ESIs and LIEs as well.

    In a nutshell: If you want to successfully date an SLE, be as Beta as possible.


    *this does not apply to online forums. INxx types are technically all netizens. Tumblr is overpopulated by us. SxE and xSEs should stop paying for dating websites/ alcohol in stupid bars and create an account there instead. You're welcome.

  18. #18
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    You don't hunt down an SLE, the SLE hunts you :3 Using their cuteness



    Don't count on gender socialization, the SLE girls don't care.
    Everything else goes against their nature unless you are dealing with a strong Ti-subtype and an SP/SO variant. Which is unlikely, SLE is the quintessential SX/__.

    The more deliberate you are, the less you sport the `victim allureī that an SLE loves and needs. Venue, clothes, techniques, forget it. Ni is the eternal true Se magnet, everything else is not exciting enough. You either have it or you don't when dealing with an aggressor type. Your only hope is that because INFp men are so rare, the female SLE radar is extended and checks out Fe types, too. Same with my duals, all the countless SEEs are dead inside as ILIs are statistically unicorns* and their relationships do not fulfil their subconscious wants. That's why they look for ESIs and LIEs as well.

    In a nutshell: If you want to successfully date an SLE, be as Beta as possible.


    *this does not apply to online forums. INxx types are technically all netizens. Tumblr is overpopulated by us. SxE and xSEs should stop paying for dating websites/ alcohol in stupid bars and create an account there instead. You're welcome.
    I appreciate your time. Who is that lady in the gif? But it is not good enough that nothing to be done to speed up the collecting of female SLE's. Not all of them know Socionics so the 'looking for SLE' shirt wont do it. How to act as beta as possible? This victim allure sounds very ineffective way to meet people.

  19. #19
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,368
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I found your format for presenting the questions kinda difficult.
    Can you just state the questions by themselves?
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

  20. #20
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    216
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Id like to know how to hunt down female SLE, how to dress, what accessories to take their attention, what venues to look at, what is the bait that make them stop doing what they doing?
    -Write her a song

    -Tell her you think she's pretty

    -Tell her she doesn't have to try to fit in because she's sexier when she doesn't

    -Smile when she walks into the room

    I did the 2nd, the 3rd and the 4th to an SLE girl without actually paying attention (I'm not into girls) and she asked me out. I was just stating facts lol.

  21. #21
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    -Write her a song

    -Tell her you think she's pretty

    -Tell her she doesn't have to try to fit in because she's sexier when she doesn't

    -Smile when she walks into the room

    I did the 2nd, the 3rd and the 4th to an SLE girl without actually paying attention (I'm not into girls) and she asked me out. I was just stating facts lol.
    What was the setting that made you met this women many times?

  22. #22
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    216
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    School

  23. #23
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,841
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    -Write her a song

    -Tell her you think she's pretty

    -Tell her she doesn't have to try to fit in because she's sexier when she doesn't

    -Smile when she walks into the room

    I did the 2nd, the 3rd and the 4th to an SLE girl without actually paying attention (I'm not into girls) and she asked me out. I was just stating facts lol.
    This actually would work with a lot, bravo (apart the song part maybe)


  24. #24

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12,633
    Mentioned
    1159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    This actually would work with a lot, bravo (apart the song part maybe)
    this will work with any type that just expresses you like someone
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  25. #25
    YXPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    INFp / VEFL
    Posts
    216
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    this will work with any type that just expresses you like someone
    Well it wouldn't work with me. I think there are plenty ways of expressing you like someone. Not everybody would do it like that.

  26. #26
    Infinity Persephone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The country of croissants
    Posts
    1,841
    Mentioned
    178 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Well it wouldn't work with me. I think there are plenty ways of expressing you like someone. Not everybody would do it like that.
    I swear it would work with a lot of girls though.


  27. #27
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    1,305
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I swear it would work with a lot of girls though.
    Too generic then.

  28. #28
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    So/Sx Introvert
    Posts
    7,961
    Mentioned
    712 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    The SLE women is one of the most gender neutral types there is. I do not believe them identify heavily with gender. IEI male I have not seen so many examples of.

    (...) I think them would theoretically be kind of neutral when all comes around.
    As far as I know, SLE women are certainly more "masculine" than the average woman in certain ways, for example in the way they have this "take-charge" attitude, are logical and down-to-earth, and don't waste their time on emotional trifles. Even so, they typically are still aware of what makes them sexually desirable to others. So, while they may work out their muscles, they still retain some kind of attachment to a bit of femininity in their appearance. In comparison, I find LSIs come across as even less feminine than them. Could have something to do with Fe HA vs Fe DS, and also most SLEs being SX first while many LSIs are Sp/Sx.

    IEI men, well... I don't have that big of a sample size on them either. One of the few I am sure of being IEI is gay, haha, so there is that too.
    All in all, they generally don't come across as being super "feminine", but you can certainly tell they are "softies" and tend to lack most qualities you'd judge to be as "masculine".
    IEI and EII are probably the guys who most often come across as the most "feminine" types for men, so... make of that what you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    First off he seemed very ethical person and very accommodating. He loved food and all sorts of sensory experience and he was quite adventurous. He loved the idea of being the strong person so he really love sort of delicate, shy, quiet women (I am all these things). Because of his strong ethics he often spoke about being a devoted husband and what he would do to be a provider, the man of the house.
    Sounds to me like he was an SEE over SLE, pretty much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    You don't hunt down an SLE, the SLE hunts you :3 Using their cuteness



    Don't count on gender socialization, the SLE girls don't care.
    Everything else goes against their nature unless you are dealing with a strong Ti-subtype and an SP/SO variant. Which is unlikely, SLE is the quintessential SX/__.

    The more deliberate you are, the less you sport the `victim allureī that an SLE loves and needs. Venue, clothes, techniques, forget it. Ni is the eternal true Se magnet, everything else is not exciting enough. You either have it or you don't when dealing with an aggressor type. Your only hope is that because INFp men are so rare, the female SLE radar is extended and checks out Fe types, too. Same with my duals, all the countless SEEs are dead inside as ILIs are statistically unicorns* and their relationships do not fulfil their subconscious wants. That's why they look for ESIs and LIEs as well.

    In a nutshell: If you want to successfully date an SLE, be as Beta as possible.


    *this does not apply to online forums. INxx types are technically all netizens. Tumblr is overpopulated by us. SxE and xSEs should stop paying for dating websites/ alcohol in stupid bars and create an account there instead. You're welcome.
    A lot of things I agree with you on here!

    I'd just add that IME, most male SLEs and SEEs of both genders "give up" on finding someone with Ni (mostly unconsciously), so most of them simply end up marrying their Dual's Look-A-Likes, SEI and SLI respectively.

    Having said that, I have found that female SLEs tend to go for fellow Beta STs, actually. I do believe this is tied to gender roles. That is a point where I would disagree with you – most SLEs tend to relate to common gender roles to some extent and care for certain social expectations. SLE women already consider themselves to be somewhat more "strong" and such, so they look for someone who is on that same level or perhaps even a tiny bit stronger. It is rare for them to actually go for the "soft", romantic, and socially/culturally not as "masculine" IEI man. So, while SLE women defy certain female stereotypes, they still would refrain from dating someone who they perceive as being significantly "weaker" and less "masculine" than themselves, for the most part. That is also why I believe female SLE - male IEI Duality to be a pretty tricky one. Socially/Culturally it does not really happen – not only because the types are rare, but also because it is against the female SLE's expectations. I could only see female SLEs going for IEIs or similar guys when they are Sx/So – contraflow. Stackings from the contraflow generally care less about social norms and expectations, so an Sx/So SLE would much more likely go against that with their dating choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    I appreciate your time. Who is that lady in the gif?
    That is Ronda Rousey, who I also believe to be an SLE lady.
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  29. #29
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    So/Sx Introvert
    Posts
    7,961
    Mentioned
    712 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lake View Post
    Questions regarding SLE/ESTp Female and IEI/INFp Duality:
    Thanks and all assistance is greatly apprecaited!

    Warning: I am not trying to offend any personality types or make generalizations, and I apologize if anyone is. I am just curious about the subject.

    What does this description by Stratiyevskaya mean, I thought ESTps were aggressors and initiative in attraction? A few statements I am specifically (bolded) confused about, I would appreciate if people could elaborate on what I highlighted and share their opinion if they view it as an accurate characteristic of the beta duality.

    -Why is this caused by a spoiled IEI, and is the SLE really "patient, loyal, selflessly devoted woman"?

    -Why is the situation further agrravated the longer the relation remains "uncertain"?

    -"On the hook", what the ****, would an ESTp female really put up with being "on the hook"?!?

    -Why and how do the ESTp female become more ethically dependent on the IEI male? Does the ESTp female look at the IEI male for ethical guidances and right or wrong?

    -Is this duality more common between SLE logicial subtype and IEI ethical subtype?


    Under which conditions does this happen? Most often this occurs when the IEI is a spoiled, over-pampered man with elevated self appraisal, while the SLE is a patient, loyal, selflessly devoted woman who takes on the function not only of his wife but also that of his mother (we have already discussed such an example). It is clear from the first glance that this is not the most beneficial and successful coupling. The situation is further aggravated the longer their relations remain ethically and socially uncertain. Let's recall that the first mistake of the SLE woman in our previous example has been that she was in a hurry to legalize her relations. And she is not the only one who commits such a mistake. For a SLE woman, as for any other woman of logical-sensing type of the second quadra, it is very important to consolidate her relations with a certain social status. This is understandable: she strives to reinforce her weak ethical and intuitive aspects with her stronger aspects of sensing and "localized" logic of relations (logic of "systems" or "hierarchical structures"). That is, the reasoning here goes something like this: "It's not clear how our relations will develop, but at least there will be a stamp in the passport. Then he won't be able to simply leave me. I'll take it up to local union/court - I will find him anywhere ..." Such a straightforward and ambitious partner may resort to any means and make any sacrifices and concessions in order to "get the man" that she wants.

    But here the IEI won't be in a hurry, because it will be important for him to first secure his own influence. He finds himself in a situation where his every wish is being met, and even makes his partner beg him for this "favor". Acting in this manner he intuitively "out-plays" his partner, keeps her "on the hook", and sets his own pace and tone to the development of their relations. At this stage, the IEI may be tempted to fall into a role of a pampered, moody child who pulls and pulls from his "good aunt/mother" (as much as it's permitted by his "intuition of possibilities" which outlines for him the "permissible limit" of what he can get).

    Here it would be nice for the SLE to apply his "knowledge of life", to assess the situation from the point of view of "opposition of partners", to understand that he is being tested and invited to measured up his skill. This is the situation to use his authoritarian tone and to "show who's boss". And how could it be otherwise? Should he tolerate the tantrums of his dual? Give in to the demonstrative sentimentality? We have already seen where this will lead him. Here what is important is the level of development of SLE's normative "intuition of possibilities" (channel 3-7): will he pick up "which way the wind is blowing" and notice that his partner is testing him for how easily he will give in, by which the IEI also asserts his own rights to all-permissiveness?

    In the meantime, the situation becomes more complicated ethically. The SLE becomes more and more ethically vulnerable to and dependent on the IEI. Besides, the SLE is very limited in his actions: certain ethical inertness and straightforwardness typical of the representative of this type prevent them from changing their tactics at the right time (especially since they aren't always able to sense the "right time"). Again, a SLE woman may decide to not force things due to gender roles: "a woman should not impose herself on the man". In this respect SLE men have certain advantages: they can take their dual "by the storm" giving the IEI little time to think things over. SLE woman cannot press things in such a manner, especially if she holds herself to typical gender prejudices. Thus, an IEI man is often able to "stretch out the time", and therefore subordinate his partner to his will and wishes and restrain her by fear: "who knows if we'll get married or not?" She, in the meanwhile, grows nervous and painfully aware of her ambiguous position (in understanding of the second quadra), and at the same time she starts developing a way to "guarantee" her future; for example, she may even become pregnant to oblige him to marry her.

    Even the IEI men? For them this sometimes manifests this even more vividly than for IEI women. It is clear that such an emotional range practically deprives the SLE of any ethical initiatives (and this is another aspect of these dual relations). It is clear that on emotional-ethical plane the SLE is not only relaxed by the IEI but also almost hypnotized by him. (Zhukov relaxes and becomes suggested by the aspect of "intuition of time" which is the "program" aspect of the IEI.) IEI's emotions have a fascinating and alluring effect on the SLE; the SLE is not only open but also helpless before them.
    With the first paragraph I felt like Stratiyevskaya might have been describing a different Duality pair altogether. Actually, it made me rather think of a bad case of EII-LSE Duality.
    Especially this bit of the second paragraph sounded a lot like a Caretaker having to deal with a poorly adapted Childlike type:
    "At this stage, the IEI may be tempted to fall into a role of a pampered, moody child who pulls and pulls from his "good aunt/mother" (as much as it's permitted by his "intuition of possibilities" which outlines for him the "permissible limit" of what he can get)."
    While some tidbits I could somewhat relate to and find apply more to SLE-IEI Duality, primarily this one:
    In this respect SLE men have certain advantages: they can take their dual "by the storm" giving the IEI little time to think things over. SLE woman cannot press things in such a manner, especially if she holds herself to typical gender prejudices. Thus, an IEI man is often able to "stretch out the time", and therefore subordinate his partner to his will and wishes and restrain her by fear: "who knows if we'll get married or not?" She, in the meanwhile, grows nervous and painfully aware of her ambiguous position (in understanding of the second quadra)
    I imagine this scenario to be difficult for female SLEs, because, just like she said, the gender expectations make the SLE woman hold back from "taking the IEI by storm", essentially using her Aggressor Romance tactics to "convince" the IEI and turn him towards her, and secure the union. In our society, this behaviour is attributed to the male, so the female SLE feels obliged to wait for this kind of initiative from the man, but it won't come from a male IEI (because he is a Victim and not an Aggressor type). This is something I have experienced myself with Victim men, and it is pretty frustrating. No wonder most female SLEs tend to date fellow Aggressor men who will make the most out of this gender convention, so she has not to worry about it.

    All in all, based on my impression I believe Stratiyevskaya ended up mixing LSE-EII and SLE-IEI Duality together in this writing, with a tendency towards the former Duality pair actually.

    Now unto answering your questions as best as I can.

    Why is this caused by a spoiled IEI, and is the SLE really "patient, loyal, selflessly devoted woman"?
    As you may have read above, I actually believe this is a misattribution to IEIs and SLEs, and rather a case of a Childlike EII not being familiar with the Caretaking of a Caretaker, his LSE Dual in particular.

    Why is the situation further agrravated the longer the relation remains "uncertain"?
    I am assuming Deltas place a high importance on stable, well-established unions (characterized as valuing Si, Te and Fi).
    It is usually the role of the Ethical type to "define" what a relationship is. When a Logical Fi-seeking type like LSE does not get this kind of definition so to speak, they will become uneasy and wary.
    An LSE would show this kind of "aggravation" more openly, while I have noticed with LIEs, especially LIE-Ni, they will internally feel this vague discomfort but because of their "Victimness" not bring it up.

    "On the hook", what the ****, would an ESTp female really put up with being "on the hook"?!?
    Haha, not exactly sure. I suppose Stratiyevskaya tried to describe that supposedly the IEI man will throw out little crumbs of promises, calming down the ethically confused Dual, assuring them that "all is well" and "we will just go with what the day brings", without defining the relationship and "putting a label on it". I don't think this is necessarily characteristic of IEIs specifically, but rather anyone who is not entirely interested in their partner but also too shy or concerned with not hurting the other's feelings, so they never address the fact they are not truly into them. I'd say this is a common problem for disinterested IxFx people, but I have also seen it with some xEE women with a strong Fi subtype.

    Why and how do the ESTp female become more ethically dependent on the IEI male? Does the ESTp female look at the IEI male for ethical guidances and right or wrong?
    Again, to me it sounds more like the LSE becoming more ethically dependent on the EII, because they are Fi seeking and unconsciously constantly searching for moral guidelines on what is right or wrong.
    In comparison, I find SLEs don't become dependent on moral reassurance or guidelines, but rather experience hurt when they do something wrong and/or their partner scolds them for it. IEIs take the moral issues on their shoulders so the SLE does not have to worry about them. The SLE does not actually want to be educated about what is right or wrong and such, which I believe is rather something an LSE or LIE is unconsciously looking for. To illustrate: An LSE or LIE would secretly enjoy going to Ethics class and learn more from the EII or ESI teacher, while the SLE and ILE would skip the class and let the IEI or SEI do the homework for them.

    Is this duality more common between SLE logicial subtype and IEI ethical subtype?
    I'd say this Duality is more common between SLE Sx/So and IEI -whatever-.
    It seems like the Sx/So kind of SLE is actually usually Ti subtype, so you could be right with suggesting that this kind of duality is more common for the SLE-Ti.
    I find the Ti subtype of SLE is rather rare, and when it appears it has been always a male in my experience. Again, this could be another factor why Duality between a female SLE and male IEI is so rare.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 08-14-2016 at 10:58 AM.
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  30. #30
    We are approximately 40% related to mice. Bone Dollar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    TIM
    ESFp-8w9
    Posts
    110
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for the constructive and thorough replies. Greatly appreciate it!

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    897
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I haven't even read all the duality descriptions but this one sounds like the worst possible one. How cna any other IR get worse than this, unless the 2 kill each other or something.

    If you don't emotionally manipulate the tyrant you will be worked like a horse, potentially until you die, and even then they won't believe you are exhausted until your funeral.

  32. #32
    Power and the money, money and the power Lolita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    California
    TIM
    SEE-Nô LPWE 863
    Posts
    892
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Itís weird how people place so much unwarranted value in duality. When I first learned of Socionics 10 months ago, people used to tell me I should love my dual and listen to them. My answer is, but why? No one could give me any real reason other than say ďitís your dual and you need them.Ē Uhhh... NO. That sounds like some codependent shit. There was a male IEI who started talking to me and said he was wanting someone to save him and maybe I could be the one to. I said, ďNo. Iím not obligated to save anyone and besides, youíre gay!Ē At the time, I didnít know he was gay or not. Afterwards, he admitted that heís gay and has a bf. He just wanted to test me because there hasnít been a female SLE in the socionics group.


    I reject the overly romanticized misapplication of duality. This is someone whoís your complete opposite in every possible way, so logically there should be and will be clashing, which is how the concept actually works. You arenít supposed to magically love your dual. There isnít any understanding coming from either side because of the subconscious expectations. No one is supposed to be longing to be exposed to their superid. Thatís uncomfortable and just weird. Putting the weakest parts of yourself in another person is fucking suicide. Death by firing squad would be a much better alternative.

    My hatred for IEI is not just they are illogical and overly dramatic creatures, theyíre ultimately spineless and weak and rather than them launching direct attacks, theyíll rally others to do their dirty work. Aside from that, they want spiritual superiority by their desire to fix others. Itís a warped spiritual sense of martyr/savior complex and they don't realize how arrogant and obnoxious they truly are. The Dual is a PERSON and they donít belong to you nor have any ties to you. All too often I see IEIs being too fucking delusional that they canít accept that they'll never be more than be a part of someoneís life and not some grand turning point, because reality doesnít live to the fantasy of an all encompassing burning blaze of glorious passion.

    Maybe male SLEs who are sx instinctual type likes the Ni victim mentality, but Iíve only met one whoís like that and heís SLE-Ti. Iíve talked to other male SLEs and theyíre also of Ti subtype but theyíre either sp or so instinct and they donít want to rescue some helpless mouse. They seem to seek out their mirage (SEI). Even my bestie is a gay SEI that Iíve been really close friends with for 13 years. As for romantic relationships, itís been with my mirror LSI and comparison SEE. I just simply donít like Ni up close. Itís too much work, and the pay off is non-existent. Thereís a huge blur when it comes to their fantasy vs reality and I find it troublesome. I cannot rely on nor trust someone who doesnít anchor themselves in the physical world.

  33. #33
    shotgunfingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Dogsville California >)
    TIM
    LSI-Hô
    Posts
    1,779
    Mentioned
    145 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    not sure, guys are usually suckers for emotional helpless idealist whamen. I assume SLE guys probably would enjoy the company of IEIs.
    Also even be4 I was typed as LSI, I made a note that EIEs think like me and I enjoyed the armchair philosopher tendencies they displayed in interviews.
    Considering they are good at what I absolutely suck at, I can see the value of such a person in my life as they would drag me out of my comfort zone, which would mean growth.

  34. #34
    Power and the money, money and the power Lolita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    California
    TIM
    SEE-Nô LPWE 863
    Posts
    892
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, the SLE guys that seek out SEI or already married to SEI that I’ve talked to tell me there is some slight helplessness. Part of it is that SEI wants to serve but is shitty with execution, yet they offer some worldly comforts. SLE is excellent with execution, but does it for Ti reasons. SEI is like IEI both that they’re in awe of SLE. Difference is, IEI manipulates and uses SLE’s Se for their own gains because IEI’s Se is dead. Whereas, SEI is willing to overlook the domineering Se energy since they have 3D Se, they don’t need to use SLE’s Se and offer Fe in a safe way while SLE offers Ti. So the difference is, SEI wants to give something to SLE, SLE recognizes there’s an equal exchange and accept. IEI wants to use SLE under the guise of unconditional love but it’s false, empty, idol worship, and I think SLE by reason have already deduced that’s a bad deal. IEI wants to play fucked up psychological warfare games with SLE, and only makes SLE work for something with no benefit in return. Demo Te will reject working so hard for free. SLE can always gain Ni from benefactor LIE and semi-dual ILI, while maintaining anchor with 4D Te.

    The truth is, I’ve already had a really fucked up relationship with my dual. I’ve fallen for the mythological sparkle of being sought after and worshipped as being the most perfect ideal and how he’s so thankful to have “won” me. Meanwhile he used me (whether consciously or not) to get to his dad. His parents (divorced) had a lot of money that they withheld from him. He didn’t work and they paid for everything and his father gave him an ultimatum to get a job or no more mooching. I talked to both his parents separately and his granny... and they all rallied to pool money to support him. He said that it would have been impossible for that to happen because his mom and grandma already cut him off financially years ago and now his dad was about to do it. I convinced his family that he will go to grad school and outlined what he intended to do with his studies and degree. I also created a spreadsheet they can impose on him to detail his expenses so they can keep track of him. They liked me and my forceful reasoning worked. He claimed that I was his “ultimate prize.” What I did for him, he didn’t do anything for me. After 1.5 months, he cooled down the interaction with me and basically did the demo Fi psychological distance shit. I had enough of that and dumped him. I swear never to fall for such bullshit again. So yeah, I’ve had this experience long before socionics came into the picture to add structure and definition to the fuckery I went through.

    My best friend is SEI and it’s true, I use him as an emotional punching bag. He understands me, absorbs my weaknesses because he knows it’s my nature to suppress weakness by eradicating it so he asks me about my day and listens to me but also understands why I hate people so much. There is no moral component when I deal with any SEI, whether male or female. During the course of 13 years friendship, I’ve pushed him to revamp his image- to work out, tone up, create a consistent health regiment, be more assertive and consistent with what he wants (he likes to please people but most take advantage of him). This is a friendship from when we were 14/15 years old. We just naturally take care of each other. So I can totally understand my male counterpart seeking out SEI females for the very reason I’ve listed above. I’m actually considering seeking out SEI for husband at this point as well. I don’t like it but I have to accept that I have somewhat of a “masculine” cognitive process and make peace that I may not find a man who can match me in energy. SEI is pretty good, and they’re not not helpless in the victim way (Ni) so it’ll be easier.
    Last edited by Lolita; 09-24-2020 at 10:01 AM.

  35. #35
    Disrupting your illusory reality Megatrop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Your mind
    TIM
    Extroverted
    Posts
    486
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SnatchYourWeave View Post
    Well, the SLE guys that seek out SEI or already married to SEI that I’ve talked to tell me there is some slight helplessness. Part of it is that SEI wants to serve but is shitty with execution, yet they offer some worldly comforts. SLE is excellent with execution, but does it for Ti reasons. SEI is like IEI both that they’re in awe of SLE. Difference is, IEI manipulates and uses SLE’s Se for their own gains because IEI’s Se is dead. Whereas, SEI is willing to overlook the domineering Se energy since they have 3D Se, they don’t need to use SLE’s Se and offer Fe in a safe way while SLE offers Ti. So the difference is, SEI wants to give something to SLE, SLE recognizes there’s an equal exchange and accept. IEI wants to use SLE under the guise of unconditional love but it’s false, empty, idol worship, and I think SLE by reason have already deduced that’s a bad deal. IEI wants to play fucked up psychological warfare games with SLE, and only makes SLE work for something with no benefit in return. Demo Te will reject working so hard for free. SLE can always gain Ni from benefactor LIE and semi-dual ILI, while maintaining anchor with 4D Te.

    The truth is, I’ve already had a really fucked up relationship with my dual. I’ve fallen for the mythological sparkle of being sought after and worshipped as being the most perfect ideal and how he’s so thankful to have “won” me. Meanwhile he used me (whether consciously or not) to get to his dad. His parents (divorced) had a lot of money that they withheld from him. He didn’t work and they paid for everything and his father gave him an ultimatum to get a job or no more mooching. I talked to both his parents separately and his granny... and they all rallied to pool money to support him. He said that it would have been impossible for that to happen because his mom and grandma already cut him off financially years ago and now his dad was about to do it. I convinced his family that he will go to grad school and outlined what he intended to do with his studies and degree. I also created a spreadsheet they can impose on him to detail his expenses so they can keep track of him. They liked me and my forceful reasoning worked. He claimed that I was his “ultimate prize.” What I did for him, he didn’t do anything for me. After 1.5 months, he cooled down the interaction with me and basically did the demo Fi psychological distance shit. I had enough of that and dumped him. I swear never to fall for such bullshit again. So yeah, I’ve had this experience long before socionics came into the picture to add structure and definition to the fuckery I went through.

    My best friend is SEI and it’s true, I use him as an emotional punching bag. He understands me, absorbs my weaknesses because he knows it’s my nature to suppress weakness by eradicating it so he asks me about my day and listens to me but also understands why I hate people so much. There is no moral component when I deal with any SEI, whether male or female. During the course of 13 years friendship, I’ve pushed him to revamp his image- to work out, tone up, create a consistent health regiment, be more assertive and consistent with what he wants (he likes to please people but most take advantage of him). This is a friendship from when we were 14/15 years old. We just naturally take care of each other. So I can totally understand my male counterpart seeking out SEI females for the very reason I’ve listed above. I’m actually considering seeking out SEI for husband at this point as well. I don’t like it but I have to accept that I have somewhat of a “masculine” cognitive process and make peace that I may not find a man who can match me in energy. SEI is pretty good, and they’re not not helpless in the victim way (Ni) so it’ll be easier.
    It's written somewhere (just google "result dual pairs") that Result dual Pairs are extremely rare and even if they form, they arent likely to be long lasting. SLE are indeed more prone to marrying SEI according to the same source.
    I see potential relationships everywhere

    If I could ask for anything impossible, that would definitely to talk to every human being ever born

  36. #36
    Tetrisexual inaLim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    TIM
    SLE-Ti 8w9 sx/sp
    Posts
    237
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Didn't mean to hit like on whatever I just hit. Guess I need to read through all this now

  37. #37
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    ISFp
    Posts
    422
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiana View Post
    Well, the SLE guys that seek out SEI or already married to SEI that I’ve talked to tell me there is some slight helplessness. Part of it is that SEI wants to serve but is shitty with execution, yet they offer some worldly comforts. SLE is excellent with execution, but does it for Ti reasons. SEI is like IEI both that they’re in awe of SLE. Difference is, IEI manipulates and uses SLE’s Se for their own gains because IEI’s Se is dead. Whereas, SEI is willing to overlook the domineering Se energy since they have 3D Se, they don’t need to use SLE’s Se and offer Fe in a safe way while SLE offers Ti. So the difference is, SEI wants to give something to SLE, SLE recognizes there’s an equal exchange and accept. IEI wants to use SLE under the guise of unconditional love but it’s false, empty, idol worship, and I think SLE by reason have already deduced that’s a bad deal. IEI wants to play fucked up psychological warfare games with SLE, and only makes SLE work for something with no benefit in return. Demo Te will reject working so hard for free. SLE can always gain Ni from benefactor LIE and semi-dual ILI, while maintaining anchor with 4D Te. .
    IDK. SLEs may attract SEIs with Ti creative for a while but ignoring Se in the latter doesn't cause SEIs to be indifferent to domineering Se, but to be more aware of it and annoyed in the long run: SEIs judge people on how considerate of others they are and 3D Se makes them less likely to fool themselves into believing a power struggle is any other thing but that. SLE are specially made to ‘put up with’ IEIs’ phychology and viceversa, so deep care will be there and they will defend one another because they ultimately understand where they are coming from. If anything, where the IEI is a woman and the SLE is a man, a lasting romantic relationship is more at risk of becoming one where the SLE applies that famous compressive ring on the IEI and ‘uses’ the IEI domestically. But maybe perspectives differ.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •