Ew -.-Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
Terrible. Not the writing, the attitude or whatever.
Ew -.-
Terrible. Not the writing, the attitude or whatever.
I'm assume by your comment that you have not met an ESI with a poor-me undercurrent. Well. I have not yet met an ESI who could be described as "a little intense"; some might be wound a little tight perhaps - but not intense.
a.k.a. I/O
I'm assume by your comment that you have not met an ESI with a poor-me undercurrent. Well. I have not yet met an ESI who could be described as "a little intense"; some might be wound a little tight perhaps - but not intense.
a.k.a. I/O
I don't think I've ever met an ESI with a "poor me" attitude. At least, that's not how I interpret what I'm seeing. They seem to be singularly unsympathetic to their own troubles. Now, most of the ESIs whom I've met have told me that they don't think that they are very smart (I was told this same thing by two ESIs with PhDs in either Astrophysics or Physics), but they weren't looking for sympathy. Instead, I think they were trying to lower my expectations, because ESIs like to under-promise and over-deliver.
As for the "intensity", I'd interpret this not as getting in your face, exactly, although I've seen an ESI do this to a group of people who weren't doing what he thought they should be doing, but rather I'd say that they display an inflexibility in the face of moral challenges.
It's more like they are saying "No, I'm not going to buy into your assertion that it could be this or it could be that. It's the way that I say it is."
I have been working with a 27 yo female ESI who is remarkably well-adjusted and about once a week, she'll take extreme offense at something I say, but won't challenge me on it until after she's had a chance to think about it for a while. She's never told me what she decided (whether she or I was right, that is), but I think that she is coming to the conclusion that I'm often right when I say something that challenges her beliefs but that I'm also an asshole.
You can be technically correct and morally wrong. Lol.
I'm sure there are many who don't have such an attitude but I certainly have met more than a few who seem to blame their inaction on their circumstance, lack of resources or other people. Now if they discovered or were shown their errors, they tend to beat themselves up. However, I find their anxieties mount exponentially when they're experiencing difficulty, sometimes becoming overly hesitant and second guessing themselves; some often grow very quiet for weeks/months before an eventual eruption or breakdown. I think they are very aware of their capabilities but don't often advertise for fear of raising expectations.
a.k.a. I/O
I see by your comments that you are confused and misunderstanding ESIs.
For most ESIs, “intense” is actually textbook. “Woe is me,” however, is not — in fact, it's the exact opposite. Someone who challenges themselves/others, disciplines themselves, and is inclined toward self-improvement, typically won't have a “woe is me” attitude. Pity parties generally consist of inaction and stagnation. It's pretty difficult to willingly dive head first into challenges and confront everything head on while simultaneously feeling sorry for yourself.
Well. I have not yet met an ESI who could be described as "a little intense";
In general, I have low neuroticism (including anxiety). I'm intense because I'm very candid/blunt; passionate; bold, authentic, and outspoken; I don't put up with bullshit; I see straight through people and am hard to fool, but simultaneously unashamed and unafraid to call people out on their bullshit; am unconcerned with emotional atmosphere fluff and will at times break it, especially if for the sake of upholding truth or protecting others, etc.; may initiate conflicts in order to obtain/gather information about someone's character/psyche; may initiate conflict so that others can see that person's true colors, AKA I'm doing it as a warning to others.some might be wound a little tight perhaps - but not intense.
That's something I did way before I ever knew about ESI's. I've described it to others ad-nauseam, as my motives have been misunderstood many times (they almost always are, as nobody actually gets me, they just think they do and I roll my eyes and let most people be wrong at this point, thus taking a role of someone protective of others in spite of being labelled the 'bad guy' by them...I've learned to embrace it by now, just let others think I'm capable of terrible things so they don't fuck with me, but such unfair, undeserved, unjust criticism of my character used to be a very sensitive trigger — thus, I willingly and deliberately exposed myself to it all the more, challenging myself to improve and overcome this about myself).
This description in this link below in general was absolutely mind-blowing for me the first time I read it. It was as though someone had based this on me, to the point where I thought “people in the typology community are going to think I'm acting more like my type, holy shit” because of how well my type fits.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 10-24-2021 at 09:49 PM.
@Rebelondeck
This may not sound like much of an “improvement,” so I'll elaborate to clarify why it is.
1) It was partly a sensitivity because I had relevant traumatic experiences in which character assassination / smear campaign resulted in the loss of connection with family. Basically, a covert narcissist formed a wedge between myself and family members by gossiping, lying, and manipulating. Thus, I perceived it as a sensitivity that was created by trauma. I overreacted to situations in which others misunderstood me, thus resulting in what would be considered irrational or destructive emotional reactions. I wanted to get this under control, therefore I literally baited others into weaponizing my own trauma against me, by exposing this weakness to shitty people in order to create situations in which I was challenged to overcome this about myself. I also exposed it publicly in some communities, btw, testing to see who would weaponize it — thus, watching them show what kinds of people they are. If that isn't a Fi Base, Se Creative, and Si Demonstrative approach to self-improvement, I don't know what is. It's also rather intense and far from “woe is me” or wound tight — quite contrary, it's gaining self-control (introspecting, self-improving…AKA archetypal ESI-ness) over my own emotional reactions/sensitivities.
2) It became clear to me that I was caring too much about how others thought of me/perceived me, and that I cannot control what others think. All I can do is learn not to care. I finally realized I not only don't value their judgments enough to care, but I also think it speaks about them more than me when someone is so presumptuous. I never get close to people who surmise regularly. It's not only asinine, it's also an incompatibility, as I'm a highly complex person. Basically, I interpret it as indication that they will probably never properly understand me, see me, or hear me, and therefore they are incapable of being close. (Or even if they are, I'm not willing to exhaust myself by fighting to open their eyes. I'm not desperate enough for relationships to do that.)
3) It was a vulnerability which was able to be weaponized against me and thus used by others for harm. I needed to get it under control.
A victim mindset as an excuse to remain in a place of inaction is something I've never understood. I don't have anxiety issues, either, though. Fear is seldom something I experience. If anything, I think such mindsets are more of a luxury...something only those who don't truly have a hard time can afford. If shit's really bad, you will do something one way or another, as it's "do or die" once shit gets hard/bad enough. I've reached a point where I don't really think I lack the strength to get through anything that could possibly happen to me in life. If anything, the greater the challenge, the more angry/determined/headstrong/passionate/strong-willed/stubborn I become. I don't back down, I don't quit, and I don't settle.
Personally, when I think others' expectations of me are too high, I confront it in a straightforward manner. I directly state that I think they're doing it and I explain why that concerns me and why I don't want that to happen. If it happens anyway — “remember when I said I didn't want this very thing to happen, and I saw it coming?” I simply point it out and correct them. I didn't make the mistake when they formed expectations. That's on them, not my problem. I don't care enough about how people think of me or my capabilities for all that bullshit. I don't advertise my capabilities, though, but that's really just because I don't have to prove jack shit to others. I know my own capabilities well, it doesn't matter whether anyone else does or doesn't see things for the way they genuinely are. The truth remains what it is, regardless of their ability to perceive it.I think they are very aware of their capabilities but don't often advertise for fear of raising expectations.
@Phoenix Fire My way of looking at Socionics is from an information control system perspective so I don't agree with the existing models or analysing IEs in isolation so I can easily be discounted in this forum. I'm quite sure that words to support any and all versions of oneself can be found. People who've undergone traumatic experiences can exhibit significant variations in type and highly stressed types can operate in a dual-like mode. I've known some ESIs to behave like Jeanne d'Arc but most have their deflated moments as well. Managers and spouses tend to have more concern about their deflations.
http://www.socionics.com/articles/unisfj.html
a.k.a. I/O
Yeah ESI lady in my office talks a lot about there being 'no room for progression in our job, no one else will want to hire us..'. I feel ok where I am at the moment but if I stop now and think about further career progression this pops into my head: ‘but everything that's happened so far means you won't be able to do it, you've developed too many bad habits, you haven't achieved enough..you won't be able to do it, you won't be able to motivate yourself to do it’. However, I’ve been in my current job a couple of years now and feel more comfortable there than I have in any other job, which helps me feel more confident and secure about what type of thing I could do in the future.
Sometimes I can’t believe I ever made it through two years of teaching. (Not in teaching anymore). But something got me through it, and although it took me a while to recover from it, there are some aspects of it I can look back on, and feel proud of. I have to try hard to remember the good feelings (year 9 working silently because they were enjoying the lesson, a rare compliment from a teaching assistant, the teacher of my top set year 10 telling me they were writing really well). For me, shaking off anxiety is about shaking off all the things I have done wrong, and honestly there’s been a lot, because my anxiety did stop me from learning how to do things correctly sometimes. But I tell myself ‘just pretend it’s 10 things, rather than 1000, only remember some, not all, you only need to remember a few in order to learn from them’.
I also try to remember that even though I struggled with work in my early twenties, I was fully aware of that struggle and yet I got up every day and went in and over time I managed to get to a point where I was brave enough to try something like teaching. I have been both brave and at times capable, which means I shouldn’t perhaps worry so much about lacking motivation or not being skillful enough.
I’ve lived through so much chaos, I feel like at some point in my life, that experience might come in useful and allow me to ‘redeem myself’ and feel powerful and strong. Although I'm also just glad to be feeling more at peace with myself and more comfortable.
I could probably write something similar about ‘self-image’ because yes, I do sometimes feel anxious about the overall person I’ve become too.
Oh, and yes, over the years my mind has invented various ‘bugaboos’ (funny word lol) that stopped me from feeling like I was capable of living a normal life, the latest being my worries about sleeping. Usually, there’s a voice telling me that the ‘new’ problem is the result of an old problem..and it’s too hard to deal with because it’s ‘too complicated’. But recently, I’ve got better at finding solutions to dealing with problems, simplifying them, which makes me feel more confident about dealing with difficult things later on, real or imagined..
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 10-26-2021 at 09:12 PM.
Yep, your personal model is entirely unrelatable. Good to know you're inventing a new system, I won't bother thinking we're on the same boat anymore.
My crude hard-science model of what I see as so obvious doesn't come close to something I would call invention. Any systems engineer worth his/her salt would propose similar but hopefully someday one will have more ambition than I to flesh it out; it's very likely that most of it already exists in artificial intelligence technology but I haven't been following the latest developments.
a.k.a. I/O
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