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Thread: Could anyone help me figure out if I'm a EII or SEI?

  1. #41
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    Looking into it, I think I am irrational, but I'm not sure about strategic and tactical. I just don't feel confident saying I'm one or the other.

    Do you have any other questions you can ask? They don't have to be about strategists and tacticians either.
    I do have more and I will try to come up with more to ask. Also, an EII would almost obsessively pursue perfection in typing others because of this great need to fit things into a neat conformity for the same reason why they seek out Ej temperament and not flexible and other spontaneous types like Ep and Ip because Ejs tend to be linear, which is regimented "I am working on this RIGHT NOW...I HAVE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW...I CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT AFTER I DO THIS" orderly, "I do not like getting distracted from what I'm working on either inside my head or physically right now" and from the tasks I've set before me as a priority of doing.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  2. #42
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Let me explain the difference between rationality and irrationality...

    Me: I've picked up your sun glasses and I'll give them to you tomorrow.
    SLI: No, I want to pick them up now. I'm on my way there can I pick them up?
    Me: No, I'm working on something right now. I'll drop them off to you in the morning. Any time you want. (I'm asking for a plan ahead)
    SLI: I'm almost there. It will just be a minute. (no plan drop in and drop out; flexible)
    Me: No. I can't. I'm too tired to stay up for you to come and I just have to finish my work. I can drop if off any time in the morning. (I am begging to plan ahead)
    SLI: Hi honey, I just wanted to see you.
    Me: *upset* You wanted to see me? You had me stay awake to give you the glasses, you wanted to see me?
    SLI: yeah, we are in a relationship...you're supposed to be happy to see me.
    Me: I said I had work to do and I am tired why is it that you don't respect that? *SLI disregarded my emotions*
    I try to break up with the SLI explaining what I need and want and that it's not being provided SLI tried to apologize and tries to come off as if they were listening and they care about your well being and says all kinds of things in a soft tone "you have me naked at your feet" meek and mild and submissive to your emotions "I wish I could tell you how much I've been thinking about you."


    on

    I don't have a flexible bone in my body. If something arises that is unexpected it will either anger me, frustrate me, or paralyze me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #43
    Ypiret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I don't have a flexible bone in my body. If something arises that is unexpected it will either anger me, frustrate me, or paralyze me.
    Hmm...
    That doesn't describe me at all. Thanks to your help, at this point I'm pretty confident that I'm irrational.
    I'm also leaning toward IP like Phil said, though I'm still looking into EP types. At this point I think it's most likely that I'm either SEI, IEI, or IEE.

    Also this is kind of off topic, but is having the need to belong to a group considered aristocratic behavior?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    Hmm...
    That doesn't describe me at all. Thanks to your help, at this point I'm pretty confident that I'm irrational.
    I'm also leaning toward IP like Phil said, though I'm still looking into EP types. At this point I think it's most likely that I'm either SEI, IEI, or IEE.

    Also this is kind of off topic, but is having the need to belong to a group considered aristocratic behavior?
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a need to belong to a group. As in have a click that do things together?

    I've noticed that my ESE and SEI cousins like having a "hiking group" people who just like to hike and a "book club group"
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a need to belong to a group. As in have a click that do things together?

    I've noticed that my ESE and SEI cousins like having a "hiking group" people who just like to hike and a "book club group"
    Yeah, kind of like a clique. I guess the desire to have a group of people to call your own.

    I was just wondering if this way separate from the aristocratic tendency to judge people by the groups they belong to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    Yeah, kind of like a clique. I guess the desire to have a group of people to call your own.

    I was just wondering if this way separate from the aristocratic tendency to judge people by the groups they belong to.
    I'll try to find my descriptions of Aristocratic/democratic.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #47
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    @Ypiret concerning reinin dichotomies I'd recommend you to leave them out and focus more on Model A and IEs or you really read prolounged articles about it.
    If you want to read about Reinin Dichotomies I recommend you these articles:
    http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3855...nitive-styles/
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ups-by-DarkAngelFireWolf69

    There's something from Reinin about the difference between Beta and Delta aristocratism.
    The Democrats – the aristocrats. The attribute manifests itself as a universal characteristic of fellowship. The democrats find it easy to establish horizontal relationships, get on friendly terms, become friends and partners. The aristocrats are more aware of the hierarchies; they keep people at a distance, more prone to establishing vertical relationships.
    There are two democratic quadras: the alpha-quadra and the gamma-quadra. There are two aristocratic quadras – the beta-quadra and the delta-quadra. The difference between the two democratic quadras may be summed up as follows: alpha-quadra is characterized by democracy in relationships. These people are obviously inclined to democratic style of speech, clothes. "I hate wearing a suit, it is uncomfortable, I will if I have to wear it”, - might a Don Quixote say. When for a Holmes, for example, formal clothes are not an inconvenience. I know some people of this type who wear a tie and a suit even at home. The gamma-quadra are the 'democrats of the idea', their ideas are democratic but in their relationships they are somewhat distanced and 'buttoned up'.
    The beta-quadra are the 'formal aristocrats', they are the aristocrats of position and interaction. Delta-quadra is the 'aristocrats of spirit'. This attribute is revealed in beta-quadra in a more formal, external way whereas in delta-quadra – more internally, deeply and ideologically. But they both share distanced and vertical relationships.
    During the experiments these groups are easy to distinguish. The aristocrats try to distance themselves from others as much as possible, they never interrupt anybody; democrats speak all at once, frequently neglecting the common norms of politeness.

    We have described all the 15 considered sections of a socion.
    Identification of all these sections with certain personality traits not only opens ample opportunities to create essentially new tests (with higher reliability), but also allows reconsidering some of the accepted names and descriptions of types, which have been rigidly conformed to the traditional Jungian basis for too long.
    Jung chose the four attributes randomly: it was a result of his way of thinking, the way he saw things. Had he used a different approach he could have discovered some other attributes and the types would have had other names today.
    Personally I don't think its an easy dichotomy to spot even though some people here saw me as highly aristocratic.
    http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3855...nitive-styles/
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ups-by-DarkAngelFireWolf69

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    Yes. This is just what I gathered from what you have been saying in your first post. I may be wrong, but ISFP is more logical to me than ENFP, at least between the two options. And again, this is based purely on my discernement, which may not always be reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    @Ypiret concerning reinin dichotomies I'd recommend you to leave them out and focus more on Model A and IEs or you really read prolounged articles about it.
    If you want to read about Reinin Dichotomies I recommend you these articles:
    http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3855...nitive-styles/
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ups-by-DarkAngelFireWolf69

    There's something from Reinin about the difference between Beta and Delta aristocratism.
    The Democrats – the aristocrats. The attribute manifests itself as a universal characteristic of fellowship. The democrats find it easy to establish horizontal relationships, get on friendly terms, become friends and partners. The aristocrats are more aware of the hierarchies; they keep people at a distance, more prone to establishing vertical relationships.
    There are two democratic quadras: the alpha-quadra and the gamma-quadra. There are two aristocratic quadras – the beta-quadra and the delta-quadra. The difference between the two democratic quadras may be summed up as follows: alpha-quadra is characterized by democracy in relationships. These people are obviously inclined to democratic style of speech, clothes. "I hate wearing a suit, it is uncomfortable, I will if I have to wear it”, - might a Don Quixote say. When for a Holmes, for example, formal clothes are not an inconvenience. I know some people of this type who wear a tie and a suit even at home. The gamma-quadra are the 'democrats of the idea', their ideas are democratic but in their relationships they are somewhat distanced and 'buttoned up'.
    The beta-quadra are the 'formal aristocrats', they are the aristocrats of position and interaction. Delta-quadra is the 'aristocrats of spirit'. This attribute is revealed in beta-quadra in a more formal, external way whereas in delta-quadra – more internally, deeply and ideologically. But they both share distanced and vertical relationships.
    During the experiments these groups are easy to distinguish. The aristocrats try to distance themselves from others as much as possible, they never interrupt anybody; democrats speak all at once, frequently neglecting the common norms of politeness.

    We have described all the 15 considered sections of a socion.
    Identification of all these sections with certain personality traits not only opens ample opportunities to create essentially new tests (with higher reliability), but also allows reconsidering some of the accepted names and descriptions of types, which have been rigidly conformed to the traditional Jungian basis for too long.
    Jung chose the four attributes randomly: it was a result of his way of thinking, the way he saw things. Had he used a different approach he could have discovered some other attributes and the types would have had other names today.
    Personally I don't think its an easy dichotomy to spot even though some people here saw me as highly aristocratic.
    http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3855...nitive-styles/
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ups-by-DarkAngelFireWolf69
    Yeah, I think for now I'll try to put the dichotomies off to the side a little . It's like a puzzle with some pieces that you think might fit together but then you realize they don't when you're already halfway done. I've even used a Reinin calculator and most of the possible combination I came up with for myself aren't represented by any type.

    In regards to aristocratic and democratic behavior though, it's still kind of hard to choose. I don't know if I'm more friendly like Alpha democrats or polite and respectful to those I see as superior like Beta aristocrats. I can at least say that I don't identify with Gamma democrats and Delta aristocrats, so I guess that could be something. Maybe other people would be better at determining which one I belong to such as in your case? Maybe I subconsciously strike some as democratic or aristocratic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    It also doesn't help that I've read descriptions of that are similar to this article's description of .
    maritsa has her own version of socionics which is different from the mainstream kind. socionix is also different from the mainstream kind of socionics. take everything you read on the16types with a grain of salt. this place has a lot of people with "unique" (for lack of a less euphemistic word) ideas.

    ETA: and don't put too much faith in any one socionist like DarkAngelFireWolf69 or Reinin either. try reading as much as you can and don't settle for community consensus typings, which are wrong most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phil View Post
    Yes. This is just what I gathered from what you have been saying in your first post. I may be wrong, but ISFP is more logical to me than ENFP, at least between the two options. And again, this is based purely on my discernement, which may not always be reliable.
    I think that's a very reasonable conclusion . The more I look into it, the less I think I am Delta.

    I think I might be IEI or SEI if I'm not taking something into account or horribly misjudging my character.

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    I wouldn't use Aristocratic or Democratic to type.

    There are individuals within a Aristocratic quadras that can seem "democratic" and the same goes for individuals in democratic quadras that seems "aristocratic".

    Types like IEI and IEE are often quite democratic in how they engage with people and their worldview, but they can be quite "cliquey" and "distant" in other ways.


    Most of the Reinin are not easy to use for typing and don't relate to any readily observable trait unlike the Jungian dichotomies, however they can describe some internal compatibility mechanics between individuals which is below the surface behavior. This is especially true for something like process/result which is the dichotomy which influences supervision/benefit relations and the social progress ideas within socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    maritsa has her own version of socionics which is different from the mainstream kind. socionix is also different from the mainstream kind of socionics. take everything you read on the16types with a grain of salt. this place has a lot of people with "unique" (for lack of a less euphemistic word) ideas.

    ETA: and don't put too much faith in any one socionist like DarkAngelFireWolf69 or Reinin either. try reading as much as you can and don't settle for community consensus typings, which are wrong most of the time.
    Oh, I see. I didn't realize that; thank you for informing me! Where would you recommend to look for standard socionics information?

    I will also try not to put too much faith in dichotomies, and try to take a more independent approach in finalizing my typing(though I think everyone's feedback is really helping a lot).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I wouldn't use Aristocratic or Democratic to type.

    There are individuals within a Aristocratic quadras that can seem "democratic" and the same goes for individuals in democratic quadras that seems "aristocratic".

    Types like IEI and IEE are often quite democratic in how they engage with people and their worldview, but they can be quite "cliquey" and "distant" in other ways.
    Alright. I'm not really seeing a clear division and it makes sense how different types can seem like one or the other i different ways.

    I think I'll for the most part ignore dichotomies for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    Oh, I see. I didn't realize that; thank you for informing me! Where would you recommend to look for standard socionics information?

    I will also try not to put too much faith in dichotomies, and try to take a more independent approach in finalizing my typing(though I think everyone's feedback is really helping a lot).
    this site and this site are sort of the "standard" (more or less), as far as i know, since i don't speak russian and can't find out. i wouldn't get too fixated on that though, since having a standard doesn't prove anything.

    i'd suggest learning model A very thoroughly from those links, especially the first one, since that's what got the ball rolling in the first place. after that, you can look into different people's ideas.

    anyway, this article is what introduced me to this whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    this site and this site are sort of the "standard" (more or less), as far as i know, since i don't speak russian and can't find out. i wouldn't get too fixated on that though, since having a standard doesn't prove anything.

    i'd suggest learning model A very thoroughly from those links, especially the first one, since that's what got the ball rolling in the first place. after that, you can look into different people's ideas.

    anyway, this article is what introduced me to this whole thing.
    Thank you so much!
    I will start looking into these as soon as I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypiret View Post
    Thank you so much!
    I will start looking into these as soon as I can.
    Sorry, one last thing. If you take away anything from the links, make sure it's model A, the IEs and the relationships. But don't ignore ideas that attack the limitations of the standard model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Sorry, one last thing. If you take away anything from the links, make sure it's model A, the IEs and the relationships. But don't ignore ideas that attack the limitations of the standard model.
    Okay, I will focus on those and take that into account as well.

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