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Thread: There is where Eliza types me

  1. #81
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    Note that Ne dominants are said to consider ideas for their own sake, not because of paltry "reasons."
    Yes but for something so time consuming as a Result-type following someone's own unique kind of Process step by step when the Result is already clear, there has to be some motive to o through that. Read what Ananke's SLE LSE thread-starter post is like, the conversation. That's what I think/feel about spending hours on a process when I already have the Result. What for??

    I think Ne altered by Ti is differnt from Ne altered by Fi...

  2. #82
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    How much studying of Socionics did you do before you 'came to this forum with a very solid understanding of your type'?
    What was your process/method/reasoning?
    Who did you talk about it with? Were you on another forum about Socionics?
    When I have more time to type in from of this computer screen, I will go onto that. But the whole process/method/reasoning - for me to explain my way on that - do you really think you would get it? That's what our posts go on about and never resolve! Our approaches to thinking are way too different. Since the other two Qs are going to bump into that, and since I feel that since I am in great need of limiting the way too much computer-time/typing I am doing here lately, getting near this topic with you is not a good idea right now...

  3. #83
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I guess I shouldn't PM you again if I do not want you posting on a the forum the content of my PM? Guess I need to remember that...
    It is atypical of me to post even that much, but considering the two-facedness in your PM, with your forum actions, I would prefer you NOT PM me. Also, I left out the "juicier" parts of your PM.

    Sorry! It did not occur to me that i might have miss-attributed your motives. I see certainly now I did. You completely misunderstand me too. There was nothing unkind or underhanded in it.
    I have probably only mentioned it a mere handful of times recently.

    Yes, but there was NOTHING passive aggressive or unkind in my mentioning you. You misplace my intentions. You are wrong there.
    You brought me into that psychologically negative conversation to someone who you know hates me, and who has a history of conflict with me.
    Not in a way to soothe ruffled feathers, either.
    There was no reason to have even mentioned me at all.
    Except as a way of showing Maritsa you are on her side, so she would more easily accept your criticisms.
    Which further pushes the us vs them mentality you two have going on.

    Don't get me wrong. I am glad you were trying to help her.
    But in order to get her to feel your sympathy for her, you used me as a reminder of your mutually shared conflicts with her.
    In Public, where I could read it. In a thread/conversation that you had already "intuited" that I had no interest in being a part of.
    With the (not unforseeable) consequence of creating further division and misunderstandings.
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  4. #84
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    ...You brought me into that psychologically negative conversation to someone who you know hates me, and who has a history of conflict with me.
    Not in a way to soothe ruffled feathers, either..
    You are right I like to smooth ruffled feathers. And that was a hidden motive, to sort of publicly mention what I keep stupidly doing that annoys you, and at the same time bring you up as a fellow forum member, not someone she has been annoyed with. But my effort was clearly a fail...

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    There was no reason to have even mentioned me at all.
    Except as a way of showing Maritsa you are on her side, so she would more easily accept your criticisms.
    Which further pushes the us vs them mentality you two have going on..
    There was no such intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I am glad you were trying to help her.
    But in order to get her to feel your sympathy for her, you used me as a reminder of your mutually shared conflicts with her..
    No, I was not using any such "us against her" thinking. In no way. That is NOT what I ever perpetuate.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    In Public, where I could read it. In a thread/conversation that you had already "intuited" that I had no interest in being a part of.
    With the (not unforseeable) consequence of creating further division and misunderstandings.
    No such intentions. I am very sorry for the misunderstanding of my intentions..

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    When I have more time to type in from of this computer screen, I will go onto that. But the whole process/method/reasoning - for me to explain my way on that - do you really think you would get it? That's what our posts go on about and never resolve! Our approaches to thinking are way too different. Since the other two Qs are going to bump into that, and since I feel that since I am in great need of limiting the way too much computer-time/typing I am doing here lately, getting near this topic with you is not a good idea right now...
    I'm asking for a simple ’I learned socionics existed by [], so I looked into it. I was part of [] forum where i talked about it with [specific people that highly influenced your understanding]. I found it to be [different than the mbti i'd been studying]. I have mostly looked into [intertype relationships], and not spent much time with [model a, element defintions, function definitions]'.

     

    My brother introduced me to Kiersey (because he was greatly interested in personality theories at that time) many years before he introduced me to Socionics. He was a member of this forum, but was having communication problems with some of the members here. He was frustrated enough that I looked in on the forum to see what might be happening in his communication efforts. From talking with him and seeing his posts and responses to them, we worked together on helping him understand what posters were responding to, why, and ideas on how to alter his writings to help ease that. In the process, I became interested in the idea of information processing because of problems my daughter was having in her development, her communication efforts, and her relationships. And I was having a hard time figuring out how to help her. I was also relieved, finally, upon reading about NeFi, the pros and cons of Ne base, of Fi creative, Ti polr, Si seeking, Te mobilizing, Ni ignoring. Everything that was labeled "disordered" about me was a natural, normal part of a particular way of processing information. The NeFi way, and not something I needed medications to change to be more acceptable to TiXe types. It was a huge relief!

    I delved into the elements, the functions, model a, etc. I was interested in what goes on inside the mind, what type of information is sought and what happens to that info as it is processed. I was frustrated by people treating examples of an element as the definition of an element (like defining Si as health, when some parts of health are merely an example of Si type of info, or Te defined as efficiency, when efficiency actually requires combining Te with Pi, etc). I was ecstatic when I found the aspects part of socionics (implicit/explicit, abstract/involved, object/field, etc). I spent a few years trying to understand this part of socionics. The aspects was a struggle because it was not something others had looked into before. Many rejected it, dismissed it, etc. But now, it's much more common for people here to recognize and understand it.

    The aspects have a huge role to play in my understanding of socionics.

    When my brother and I used to discuss socionics, we would talk about family members close to us, their conversations, efforts, etc, And we typed them together.

    And each time I discovered something new, I would hold all my other understandings, including my understanding of my type, into limbo so that I would not be pre-biased about the new info. And I would turn it and poke it and test it with my own mind, and asking others about their own understandings/perceptions of that new info. Through this I gathered a number of ways of looking at socionics elements/functions until I found the essence. The basic building blocks. These blocks are my typical approach to socionics theory and types.

    But socionics is just one of many tools for understanding people. I have too many years of delving into people's minds to solely rely on a Ti theory that gives 2D norms/rules to what I understand in a 3D/4D way.
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  6. #86
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    @anndelise. fascinating. And BTW I love personal stories. (in case you didn't notice). I can understand who you are so much better by a personal story. I went out on errands today and thought, this is going no where. I must give up this time-consuming dialogue with Ann. Because it goes nowhere. And she is asking me these Q's for no good reason, just to argue. She must be one of those who just likes to argue. She must not have good will in this conversation. These were my thoughts so I did not think I was gong to uncover anything in your hidden message. But your story and explanation is very interesting and revealing. I will write mine, too - later. I need to withdraw a bit, limit actual minutes spent on computer. But for now, what you wrote helped me see so much where you are coming from.And I still want to make the effort to understand DarkAngelFireWolf69's cognitive styles.

    Speaking of cognitive styles. Look at our Avatars. I feel mine represents me well which is why I don't keep changing it, and perhaps the same for you? If so, how different each represent the processing of information. Maybe it means something.

    I am taking a computer slow-down time because I simply must for a time limit the minutes I spend on this.

    Aspects looks interesting, another way of seeing things you have that I do not, something you favor in your thinking that I do not, could cause me trouble in following your process. I will look into it sometime. At least I must find out why this was said of SLI's use of Si: "Why does a switch from static to dynamic cause Si to take on an overtly localized, bodily, and pleasure-evaluating nature? What is the hidden factor causing Ti to not have this, or for Si to have it? Simply static/dynamic?" ..Sounds intriguing!

  7. #87
    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Yes but for something so time consuming as a Result-type following someone's own unique kind of Process step by step when the Result is already clear, there has to be some motive to o through that. Read what Ananke's SLE LSE thread-starter post is like, the conversation. That's what I think/feel about spending hours on a process when I already have the Result. What for??

    I think Ne altered by Ti is different from Ne altered by Fi...
    Don't confuse Result type with "I know everything already anyway" arrogant type, or more crucially with "I know your conclusions already" type. Also, subjectivity and respect thereof and of the person's yadda yadda.

    Funnily enough you've just shown you're not really reading what people are writing to you. Browsing sure, but not considering.
    Reason is a whore.

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