Acknowledging the Other Point of View - Playing Neutral

[Steve]

So many posts on this forum have gone off topic and have resulted in conflict between people which usually stemms from a simple misunderstanding of the other person's style and motivations (and sometimes other issues are involved ). I think it's time that people take a step back and look at their own point of view, and also try to decide what the opposing viewpoint would be. It doesn't mean that your point of view isn't the best one, but at least by being aware of how some people may see you differently than you see yourself, you won't get as frustrated when some people don't understand and appreciate the essence of your point of view.

The whole point of socionics is understanding others differences and to be able to accept them and try to increase compatibility and healthy relationships with other people.

I'll start and address each some of my qualms from both my own point of view and that of a person whose is different.

As an ENTp, I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

Another person, may view my statements as being incoherent and contradictory.


Another thing that irks me is when people try to take the wind out of my sails and bog me down with details that are frivolous.

Another person may see this as ignoring important details that would change the entire basis of my point and question its credibility.

People who are too serious and don't like exploring things for fun (everything has to have a purpose and be judged) frustrate me

Someone else could see this as either being lazy, not motivated, absent-minded, etc.

People who have tension with me and aren't straightforward in addressing it and resolving it and returning to good terms really bother me. This is a big one. I hate having a sour taste in my mouth and leaving conflict unresolved and festering - I like things to work out.

Other people may need more time to digest a conflict and sort it out themselves and may not be ready to address it head on and resolve it. "It's not that simple" in their minds.

- If everyone could try what I've done above I think it could make us all be a little more conscious about each other's styles. We each have our points of view and to us our points of view are the best, which they are, but I think it's a good idea to be a little aware of an opposing viewpoint so that we can relax our future frustrations towards one another's posts.

[UDP]

solid. Didn't read it all in depth, because I 've got to go, but the intuitional skim looks well. Back later

[Steve]

Anybody wanna give it a shot?

[Gilly]

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As an ENTp, I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

I think you've hit on a very good idea here about . I think, in some way, Ne can be seen as the ability to recognize the context of a given idea/situation. After all, aren't the possibilities/potentialities of a situation properties of the context?

Just something to chew on. I agree with a few of the things you say here.

[Joy]

I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

I think this can happen with Te and Ti types too. The Ti types looks at individual statements and not the overall point.

[Gilly]

I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

I think this can happen with Te and Ti types too. The Ti types looks at individual statements and not the overall point.

[anndelise]

I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

I think this can happen with Te and Ti types too. The Ti types looks at individual statements and not the overall point.

Actually, both Ti and Fi consider words to by symbols of a concept. So often Ti/Fi are trying to understand the concepts behind the symbols you are using. If mixed with Ne, then you've got someone who's capable of seeing multiple interpretations for a single word...in other words, we see people using the same word to refer to different concepts at different times. I think that in most cases, Ti/Fi with Ne do try to determine the meaning of the symbol someone's used by relating it to other symbolized concepts within the sentence, but oftentimes, the sentences/writings don't provide that kind of information. I'm not sure how Se types deal with the ambiguity in people's symbols. The SeFi and FiSe types I've known seem to take the surface meaning from it without going too far into depth on it. Often times, they are accused of not reading for meaning.

So, Te/Fe types can accuse Ti/Fi for not reading for meaning, AND Ti/Fi types can accuse Te/Fe for not writing for meaning.

Either way, it still comes down to whether both people are communicating for meaning and mutual understanding. A person who is attempting to communicate for understanding will normally attempt to reword or reorder the concepts/words to see if the other person is able to respond/understand it.

What's frustrating is when only one person is striving for meaning and the other assumes that since it is in their own head, therefore it must be in yours, therefore they don't HAVE to attempt to reorder/rephrase what they mean. But then, it's just as frustrating to to express one's complex thoughts into a linear language format.

[Joy]

http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=4965

[UDP]

There is a genral ethical-ness that everybody should step up to and what not.


But also, personal type prefernces are just always going to be there or 'get in the way', so I think it is good to recognize them. And when you do, acknowledge it, and be very cautious as to how much you retort to it. Putting more fuel into a functional difference in going about things isn't really fruitful, because all it really demonstrates is that you think about things differently, which should eventually be understood if you study personality types. But that is something I slip up on, too.

A decent 'awareness' post, I suppose.

[XoX]

I like this thread! And I like the post steve6 made. It shows a very constructive attitude. The points made seem to be mostly on the spot.

However I could make an extension to this last point because I don't feel I'm 100% part of either group described here.

People who have tension with me and aren't straightforward in addressing it and resolving it and returning to good terms really bother me. This is a big one. I hate having a sour taste in my mouth and leaving conflict unresolved and festering - I like things to work out.

Other people may need more time to digest a conflict and sort it out themselves and may not be ready to address it head on and resolve it. "It's not that simple" in their minds.

The problem for me seems to be that very often other people see conflict where I see not.

For example when arguing about some point I rarely attach my person to the argument. Now there may be other people who attach their person to their argument in a way that they are emotionally hurt when someone hits their argument with strong criticism. So these other people may see the situation like I'm having a conflict with them even though I just see we are doing "mental sparring", simply exchanging logical arguments.

When the situation is over I leave and don't really think about the situation again. The other person might feel I have something personal against them because I "attacked" their argument so hard and feel we have to resolve this dispute. This can confuse and puzzle me as I am usually pretty detached from my argument and I don't understand what there is to resolve?

This is one of the reasons I nowadays usually keep my "gloves on" and have learned to not hit people with very hard criticism except in exceptional circumstances. I seem to be good at generating tensions in some people unless I make a constant and conscious effort to "be nice". Nowadays I'm pretty nice because of this I can even be seen as a very soft person because of this. It has its good and bad sides.

[Steve]

The problem for me seems to be that very often other people see conflict where I see not.

For example when arguing about some point I rarely attach my person to the argument. Now there may be other people who attach their person to their argument in a way that they are emotionally hurt when someone hits their argument with strong criticism. So these other people may see the situation like I'm having a conflict with them even though I just see we are doing "mental sparring", simply exchanging logical arguments.

When the situation is over I leave and don't really think about the situation again. The other person might feel I have something personal against them because I "attacked" their argument so hard and feel we have to resolve this dispute. This can confuse and puzzle me as I am usually pretty detached from my argument and I don't understand what there is to resolve?

Good point - this also happens to me sometimes, especially with someone who is more emotionally sensitive and "attaches their person to their argument" like you say. Actually even telling them afterwards that I have nothing against them and their values, and was simply evaluating the credence of their argument, doesn't work - at that point I'll sometimes try to prove to them I have nothing against them by paying them a compliment

[Steve]

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As an ENTp, I personally get frustrated when people don't pay attention to the context in which my statements or ideas are based in, and judge only on the statements by themselves

I think you've hit on a very good idea here about . I think, in some way, Ne can be seen as the ability to recognize the context of a given idea/situation. After all, aren't the possibilities/potentialities of a situation properties of the context?

I think you're right about . So if focuses on the context of ideas/situations, what would focus on? Would it focus more on individual aspects and how they progress over a period of time?